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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 29  
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Posted (7 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 71390 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
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Due to length part 28 was locked for further contributions. Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 29:

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 1 (by Longhornmaniac Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2 (by LipeGIG Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 3 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 7 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 8 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 11 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 16 (by SA7700 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17 (by 777ER Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 20 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 23 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26 (by SA7700 Mar 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27 (by SA7700 Mar 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)


**** ADDITIONAL NEWS REPORTS ****

MH370: search for missing Malaysia Airlines plane extended to southern Indian Ocean

Najib's full press statement on MH370

Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370: What we know so far

MISSING MH370: Timeline

Flight MH370: Police focus on pilots as search for airliner goes on - live updates


***********************************************************************************************


SUMMARY PROVIDED BY MEMBER [ rcair1 ]: EXTRACT FROM POST 66 IN THREAD 27

Sanity Check

• Doing this as much to keep my brain aligned as to provide a data source.
• The facts have not changed much, however the is more data about track and time-line
• I've tried to be as factually accurate as I can - but I'm not an expert in each system - so if there factual errors please advise.
• I'm going to try to list what we know, not what we think - we being the public. And sadly it is very short.

First a synopsis
• The ship took off normally and headed on course to Beijing
• The last ACARS transmission was about 01:07 local. Confusion continues about if and when ACARS was turned off(See ACARS below)
• The last comms were a normal hand-off from Malaysia to Vietnam control at about 1:30 local. It was a normal 'good night' on the Malaysian side, but Vietnam was not contacted.
• The aircraft dropped off secondary radar with no communication from the cockpit.
• There are reports of a climb to 45K, uneven descent and some changes in altitude. Since this is based on primary radar - altitude data is somewhat uncertain. The last has been reported as 29,500ft but that seems in dispute.
• There are subsequent primary radar returns west over Malacca Straight and then north west Since it is primarily radar - a reflection - it does identify the a/c, however it has been correlated with SATCOM pings so confidence is high that the returns are from MH370
• SATCOM system pings continued for 7+ hrs after LOS (loss of signal)
• SATCOM pings do not locate the aircraft but based on correlation to signal strength there are 2 paths the aircraft could have taken
• Path one is north over Andaman Sea, Bay of Bengal as far as Kazakhstan/Turkmenistan and is consistent with primary radar.
• Path two is south over the India Ocean west of Australia. We've had no reports of radar signals in that area.
• The last SATCOM ping was at 8:11 am Malaysian time. At that time it would be dark on the north path and light over the south path.
• We have no ELT signal detected.
• While authorities (Malaysian) have not confirmed this is a hijacking or purposeful event - it is believed that is highly likely by most, however, motivation is unknown.

ACARS
• ACARS is an automated aircraft communication system that transmits a/c information, primarily maintenance information, to maintenance facilities like the airline, Boeing, Engine Manf, etc.
• ACARS is NOT a flight system - it is not needed for safe flight.
• ACARS is a subscription service and costs money. All indications are the MH370 was subscribed only to engine health monitoring and data from that is sent to Rolls Royce.
• ACARS communicates via VHF or SATCOM (and maybe Wifi at the gate). The communications channel depends on availability and is independent of the ACARS.

ACARS data from MH370
• The ACARS system sent 2 engine health reports to Rolls Royce, both prior to the LOS event.
• There seems to be disagreement on if the ACARS was switched off, or if it was not expected to send more data.
• The Malaysian PM stated they had high confidence ACARS was turned off.
• But, Rolls Royce has not commented on if more ACARS reports would have been expected prior to landing.
• Turning off ACARS reportedly requires entering the EE bay which is not simple in flight.
• UPDATE per TriStarSteve,26, 186:Pilots can deselect ACARS transmission by VHF and SATCOM. This does not turn off the VHF and SATCOM, just stops ACARS from using them.
• The ACARS report received prior to LOS had 'interesting' altitude data/fluctuations including 40K drop in a minute. That data is suspect.
• UPDATE: Per the RR webpage a snapshot would be expected at takeoff, climb, cruise and summary post landing.
• Since no "landing" report was received, then either the ACARS was turned off, or the a/c did not land. It is not clear to me if the last report was climb or cruise.
• We have not heard if ACARS would send a report upon fuel starvation flame-out.

SATCOM
• SATCOM is a communications channel - Satellite Communications. It is a radio system that uses satellites to communicate various information.
• SATCOM is not ACARS - it is one of the channels ACARS can use.
• The SATCOM system on MH370 was connecting to Inmarsat satellites.

SATCOM Pings
• The SATCOM system sends (or responds to) periodic 'pings' to/from the satellites. These 'pings' are a network communication that says "I am here."
• SATCOM pings are not communicating a/c status, they are part of the communications channel.
• The last pings were detected at 8:11am Malaysia time
• SATCOM pings provide no aircraft heading, speed or altitude information, however, distance from the Satellite can be estimated.
• Based on analysis of the SATCOM pings by Inmarsat, two possible routes have been predicted based upon a radius from the satellite picking up the pings.
• People have asked if SATCOM pings would occur if the aircraft was landed, but operating.
• We have not seen data on this, but I would presume it would.
• People have asked if SATCOM pings could come from a crashed plane if the right parts survived.
• Very unlikely. The system is not self contained, the equipment, power and antennas are separate.

CRV/FDR Data
• The CVR (cockpit voice recorder) and FDR (flight data recorder) do not transmit data in flight.
• They do emit sonic pings if immersed. These will last a minimum of 30 days. We can expect sonar is being used to listen for them.
• The CVR reportedly is a 120 minute CVR so it would contain only the last 120 minutes of flight (presuming it did not fail or was turned off prior to that).
• I don't have data form the recording time of the FDR, but it is typically much longer.

Way-point Tracks
• The use of way-points to the navigate are conjecture. They happen to line up with the direction indicated by the primary radar returns and Inmarsat data to the north.
• While many believe the aircraft was under control - we cannot conclude if these way-point were used, or just along the path.

Airworthiness Directive
• The airworthiness directive about corrosion near the SATCOM antenna does not apply to this ship.
• The ship DOES have SATCOM - but uses a different antenna

Lithium Battery Fires.
• There are reports of a shipment of lithium batteries on the a/c and that perhaps they caused a fire.
• It seems very unlikely a fire could be intense enough to disable the crew, but then the a/c would survive and fly for 7+ hours.
• Opinion: as a firefighter, I doubt this. The fire would destroy the a/c.

Search Areas
• Along the planed route. I believe searching in this area is ending or decreasing based on new data indicating the a/c is not there
• West over the Malacca straight
• North west of Malacca straight
• Along the two tracks predicted by the SATCOM pings which continue north to Kazakhstan/Turkmenistan and south to the India Ocean.
• These are huge search areas - I do not have a good handle on what assets are deployed where
• It appears the north route is considered more likely because of primary radar signals that roughly correlate.
• I would expect review of primary radar west of Australia is in process if not done.

Conspiracy Theories
• There are lots of conspiracy theories out there - from the Malaysian government hiding something to pilot suicide, to hijacking to whatever.
• The breadth of the countries searching alone makes me discount many of the government is hiding it aspects
• It is likely there are covert (secret) resources in the area that are trying to provide the info without revealing themselves.
• Currently, it seems most believe there is some positive action here - hijacker or crew based.
• Opinion: Mostly, I believe this is because a mechanical failure that selectively terminates communication, incapacitates the crew/passengers, but then allows the a/c to fly on uncontrolled for 7 hours seems unlikely.
• Investigations of crew have begun in earnest.
• Despite the belief this is incident required human actions - we have no evidence of that. Rather - no other theory seems credible.

Mobile phones
• We know that if any mobile phones were connected to the tower - we would have a location and would search there.
• We don't have any reports or evidence of that - so I conclude that it is not viable to consider.

I've deleted the sections on incompetence and false sitings - for brevity.
IN summary what we know is.
• The a/c disappeared from secondary radar and stopped communicating. We do not know why or what happened to it.
• There is evidence from SATCOM and Radar that the a/c traveled west - then most likely north west.
• SATCOM signals show the a/c was operating till at least 8:11am Malaysia time, over 7 hrs total flight time
• We have not found it despite multiple governmental agencies from multiple countries searching hard.

What seems likely.
• A hijacking or positive intervention by human agency seems likely.
• The erratic altitude and course may indicate a struggle on board.
• While we would like to believe the a/c landed safely somewhere, that seems unlikely to have happened unobserved.


That is all.
Respectfully Submitted - rcair1



**********************************************************************************************************************************

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Enjoy the forums!

Regards and thanks for your co-operation,

SA7700


When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
262 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinetomlee From Canada, joined Aug 2010, 349 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (7 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 71485 times:

Here is some more factual evidence against stealing "brains" or "cargo".

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/malaysia-ai...emiconductor-top-employees-1440097
"The passengers on board were engineers and other experts working to make Freescale Semiconductor chip facilities in Tianjin and Kuala Lumpur more efficient, said Mitch Haws, vice- president, global communications and investor relations."

Also if you cut the crap out the relevent I found where they were working and why it is highly unlikely to be super secret stuff.

http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/...homepage.jsp?code=FOUNDRY_SERVICES

The two sites according to the interview with Freescale are not even chip fabs they are final manufacturing and packaging plants. These are all likely process engineers and people working on making mfg and packaging more efficient and ironing out problems in high volume production to get products out the door in quantities and without problems quickly. This doesn't make them unimportant as process engineering is important but this is far from top secret work. (Also note how the chip fabs are all in the US) Third party companies or even the military itself can accept blank dies direct from the chip fab (diced of course) and package and test themselves. But doing chip fab yourself is very costly/capital intensive/important.

The engineering teams were likely moving between two plants and not doing anything particularly secret or even carrying anything of importance between the two plants. (You can get the same packaged devices from Digikey, Mouser, Newark, ...)

[Edited 2014-03-16 02:06:05]

[Edited 2014-03-16 02:06:53]

User currently offlineInsideMan From Vatican City, joined Aug 2011, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 70321 times:

I believe the Freescale story is a red herring just like the two guys with the stolen passports and the simulator....

Does anyone have a timeline for the pings and the other theoretical locations and not just the last one we saw in the media?

Based on the radar contact going NW near Pulau I can't make sense of the southern route, as that would mean whoever flew the plane had to go around Indonesia without another radar contact to get to the southern route. Depending on the time between radar contact and the last satellite ping that may be possible, but not really sensible, since there's nothing there but vast ocean and there are easier ways to go to vast areas of water later en route to Bejing.
Besides, what would be the reason to do that? If it's suicide taking 239 lifes with you, you want attention. If it's an act of terrorism you'd want people to notice too, as that's the whole point....

Hence the northern route is the only one that makes sense to me. If we had one or two more timestamps and potential locations for the pings it would be easy to confirm.

The question is why.... 777 parts too expensive in China? Re-engineering doesn't make a lot of sense to me, as you could just take any other 777 in china and keep it in lockdown after D-check indefinitely, besides the technology is decades old. So unless there is a specific system on board which is not allowed to be sold to China(?) I doubt this highly.
Does Blofeld have a secret lair with landing strip in the Chinese Desert? Maybe, but why didn't any chinese radar pick up anything?


User currently offlinechrisrad From Australia, joined Dec 2000, 1071 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (7 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 70201 times:

Live Press conference now

http://www.astroawani.com/videos/live



Welcome aboard Malaysia Airlines! Winner of Best Cabin Staff 2001,2002,2003,2004,2007,2009,2012
User currently offlineDalavia From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 549 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 70153 times:

Quoting InsideMan (Reply 2):
The question is why....

Although I think Iran and China and both extremely unlikely destinations, and while I agree that the Freescale group seems an unworthy target for such an elaborate heist (if that is indeed what it is), I still think there was a possible motive lurking in the cargo hold.

If the intel is correct that MH370's cargo - alone among flights in KL that night - was not x-rayed, then knowing more about that might provide a clue.

[Edited for grammar]

[Edited 2014-03-16 02:34:53]

User currently offlinetomlee From Canada, joined Aug 2010, 349 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (7 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 70024 times:

Quoting InsideMan (Reply 2):
Hence the northern route is the only one that makes sense to me. If we had one or two more timestamps and potential locations for the pings it would be easy to confirm.

I don't think the pings are going to get much more than what we have it took them probably days to even get the solution down to just those two possibilities. According to the news both areas are being considered possible so there must not be any other primary radar data yet to exclude or support either area.


User currently offlineRazza74 From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 69497 times:

The RAAF AP-3C Orions are to be retasked to search the Indian Ocean
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...light/story-e6frg8yo-1226856192467



Ahh the joy of living under a flightpath
User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3823 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (7 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 69244 times:

So why can't anybody, official or not, provide a list of the cargo onboard?

Back when I worked at Lufthansa Cargo as a lowly summer intern 10 years ago, even I could access any flight's list of cargo in the computer, or even walk up to the large metal filing cabinets, pull out the corresponding air waybills and it would contain all the info you could think of, from the expeditor's address to the weight, description and customs info.

Why hasn't anybody done this for MH370?

Soren   



All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently offlineBaconButty From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2013, 227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 68183 times:

Quoting tomlee (Reply 5):
I don't think the pings are going to get much more than what we have it took them probably days to even get the solution down to just those two possibilities. According to the news both areas are being considered possible so there must not be any other primary radar data yet to exclude or support either area.

Given that we have a sequence of (hourly? half hourly) "pings" which each provide an arc, and we know an approximate speed of the aircraft, I would hope that those in possession of the satellite data (US/UK/Malaysia) would be looking at hypothetical routings that would be consistent with that sequence, and attempting to at least eliminate possibilities by corroboration with any primary radar en route - should the relevant nations be willing to share it.



You could do with some brown sauce on that.
User currently offlinejelliesR From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 67881 times:
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I lived and worked in singapore for four years and had Malaysian friends. Being an opposition voice is a miserable existence and being a supporter of the opposition equally frustrating. I think this pilot had the motive, certainly the means and the opportunity. Why invent complex explanations before ruling this one out? I'd like to see the lone wolf theory ruled out, definitively, before wasting brain power on elaborate conspiracies or a heist that was apparently almost a perfect crime.

User currently offlinek83713 From Russia, joined Jul 2010, 157 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 67834 times:

Kidnapping engineers for any work in this way would be unheard way of hiring and I doubt they would collaborate efficiently in RnD after all they went through. Unless there are already special devices to scan brains to get all the data. Also level of their knowledge is still big question. No, this is from science fiction and action movies. I believe they probably were occasional passengers with their own goals, like refugees from Iran were, but it's not more than a feeling.

User currently offlineushermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2965 posts, RR: 16
Reply 11, posted (7 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 67842 times:

Occam's razor truly has gone down the drain here in the last few days.


Where have all the tri-jets gone...
User currently offlinetomlee From Canada, joined Aug 2010, 349 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (7 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 67525 times:

No body from the pilot's family moved out according to the news press conference, everyone laughs. (Who/which news agency reported the family moved out in the first place)

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 7):
So why can't anybody, official or not, provide a list of the cargo onboard?

Cargo manifest contains nothing of interest according to the press conference.

Quoting BaconButty (Reply 8):
Given that we have a sequence of (hourly? half hourly) "pings" which each provide an arc, and we know an approximate speed of the aircraft, I would hope that those in possession of the satellite data (US/UK/Malaysia) would be looking at hypothetical routings that would be consistent with that sequence, and attempting to at least eliminate possibilities by corroboration with any primary radar en route - should the relevant nations be willing to share it.

The hourly pings don't provide even a single location so the speed estimate would be literally be a range so large it wouldn't be very useful. (The exact location isn't known and it is probable the last ping was the only one to provide a good enough estimate solution, two areas is the best they got, I'm assuming)


User currently offlinetomlee From Canada, joined Aug 2010, 349 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (7 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 67460 times:

Quoting ushermittwoch (Reply 11):
Occam's razor truly has gone down the drain here in the last few days.

Indeed it has.


User currently offlineuta999 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2010, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 67289 times:
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Could the range / endurance have been much higher if it flew south on one engine at low speed.

Perhaps they put it down in Antarctica in one piece at dawn, then covered the wings with snow. It would be somewhere near the sea, if the plan is to use the aircraft again.

If an A318 can do it, perhaps a light 772 can too.


User currently offlineTapir From Malaysia, joined Mar 2014, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 67339 times:

Local paper The Sun tweeted " @theSundaily: Missing #MH370: Communications were disabled before the pilot said 'good night' to M'sian air traffic control."

If that was the case, how come the pilot did not disclose unless he turned it off.


User currently offlinetomlee From Canada, joined Aug 2010, 349 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (7 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 67091 times:

Quoting Tapir (Reply 15):
Local paper The Sun tweeted " @theSundaily: Missing #MH370: Communications were disabled before the pilot said 'good night' to M'sian air traffic control."

If that was the case, how come the pilot did not disclose unless he turned it off.

I want to know how they know ACARS was off did it send a message saying it was disabled?


User currently offlinek83713 From Russia, joined Jul 2010, 157 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 66933 times:

Quoting Tapir (Reply 15):
how come the pilot did not disclose unless he turned it off

Because it was already not the pilot at controls? That's why they want to compare samples of his voice (I wonder what exactly samples are) they took after second visit to his house.


User currently offlinenoflies From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 24 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 66908 times:

Quoting tomlee (Reply 12):
Cargo manifest contains nothing of interest according to the press conference.

I thought they said that the cargo contains nothing "hazardous". Unless they said 'nothing of interest' early on (I missed a bit of it), seems to me that nothing 'hazardous' doesn't mean that there's nothing significant. Happy to be corrected.


User currently offlinetheaviator380 From UK - England, joined Feb 2013, 408 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 66925 times:

Navigator has been dissembled and been taken to investigation. Indian authorities have been asked not to do any more SAR around Andaman and Nicobar islands.

User currently offlinejelliesR From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 66746 times:
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Quoting ushermittwoch (Reply 11):
Occam's razor truly has gone down the drain here in the last few days.

The simplest explanation is the pilot flipped out, as train drivers and plane pilots have done, distressingly, before.
Absent simple mechanical explanations as candidate theories, how can anyone disagree with that?
Once you get to hijackings or a heist, it is whole level more of complexity.
I'd be curious to know if someone can actually argue a crazy pilot is NOT the simplest theory.


User currently offlinetomlee From Canada, joined Aug 2010, 349 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (7 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 66713 times:

Quoting noflies (Reply 18):
I thought they said that the cargo contains nothing "hazardous". Unless they said 'nothing of interest' early on (I missed a bit of it), seems to me that nothing 'hazardous' doesn't mean that there's nothing significant. Happy to be corrected.

What else would be interesting if there was something secret they won't exactly write (This box is secret, on the shipping manifest) Only hazardous goods, chemicals are the only thing a shipping manifest would show. Any illegal,secret stuff wouldn't be listed. Hence the cargo manifest contains nothing of interest.


User currently offlinePhen From Ireland, joined Oct 2007, 317 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 66496 times:

Quoting Tapir (Reply 15):

Perhaps he was under duress?


User currently offlineultrablue From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 66314 times:

Quoting tomlee (Reply 12):
The hourly pings don't provide even a single location so the speed estimate would be literally be a range so large it wouldn't be very useful. (The exact location isn't known and it is probable the last ping was the only one to provide a good enough estimate solution, two areas is the best they got, I'm assuming)

If you assume the aircraft was flying at a constant speed in a straight line for the last few hours of flight, it would be a relatively straightforward process to calculate its flight path (i.e. assuming constant tangential velocity) - although it probably wouldn't help discriminate between the northern and southern alternatives.


User currently offlinetomlee From Canada, joined Aug 2010, 349 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (7 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 66102 times:

Quoting jelliesR (Reply 20):
I'd be curious to know if someone can actually argue a crazy pilot is NOT the simplest theory.

Well maybe something happened that affected communications and navigation and they tried to turn back but ended up following the wrong route back and ended up over the open waters on the other side and thought they would eventually reach land.

Pilot or someone (who no one knew could fly a plane or was involved in something bad) could have also done it. We don't know anything that would indicate the pilot or passengers from international perspective but that doesn't mean they know everyone absolutely.

What is clear is that stealing some secret cargo/top secret brains/the plane is not likely. Unfortunate as it is we probable will never know what happened at the handoff point as it is highly unlikely the CVR would keep that much data.


25 k83713 : I think it's really not obligatory that hijacking occured after "All right, good night". Since the flight was in Malay airspace and ATC tracked it, it
26 Dalavia : The way I heard it, when asked whether the cargo had been screened, he said something like it SHOULD have all been screened (his emphasis). It sounde
27 AeroVega : Completely agree, especially since the scenario is pretty similar to Silk Air flight 185.
28 tomlee : Assuming it was flying in a straight line is assuming a lot of things given the sat position estimate doesn't give a position or heading just a huge
29 Post contains links and images flood : One could probably find "interesting" people on any given international flight and cobble together some kind of elaborate, dubious plot. Ha, try this
30 tomlee : The only thing that is interesting on a cargo manifest is if there is something dangerous declared. Anything secret or special isn't going to be list
31 BaconButty : I'm well aware that no locations are provided. But each ping provides an arc - and portions of that arc can be eliminated by being inconsistent with
32 tomlee : 1) Other eariler arcs probably all overlap, 2) As the arcs get closer they probably just merge together in a big blob, 3) They might have also used t
33 tomlee : Does look quite probable. Have they checked financial status of all passengers/crew yet.
34 Bronko : That takes "crazy" to a whole new level, wow.
35 Post contains links theaviator380 : That link showing error now ! Russia puzzled over Malaysia Airlines capture by US Navy[Edited 2014-03-16 04:42:00 by SA7700]
36 PanHAM : cargo manifests Show all relevant data of the freight loaded on a particular flight. Including the declared nature of the goods. If that is autro par
37 cbrboy : And even if it did, if you have privileged access to the cargo manifest then disclosing it publicly would be a gross betrayal of trust and a sackable
38 na : I think they do, though in the press conference they were evasive when asked if the passengers are being investigated. One of the guys said all on bo
39 tomlee : The thought that a cargo manifest is going to include illegal and secret items on a list an intern could pull up isn't very probable. If it was caugh
40 AirKorea : As I have seen and heard MH 370 mystery over the last nine days, and many released facts and data, and even speculations, My pesonal conclusion is bel
41 tomlee : Not to mention even if nothing secret or illegal is listed people don't exactly want the nature of their shipments to be public knowledge if there is
42 Bronko : I still have it open in another tab. I haven't posted here in years, will the current forum rules allow me to copy/paste the article?
43 tomlee : Copyrights and Advertising Copyrighted material from other websites, newspapers, magazines and journals are not allowed to be posted. You are permitt
44 cbrboy : There are many dozens of posts about this in previous threads. The current state of knowledge about ACARS on MH370 is well summarised in the OP at th
45 Nibog : That Sir is an excellent post,I agree with all you say,a "rogue" pilot who for some reason or other has decided a while ago on his actions ,the varia
46 Post contains links Mortyman : Are we sure they are telling the truth ? Look here: http://www.eutimes.net/2014/03/russi...aysia-airlines-capture-by-us-navy/
47 Bronko : Actually the link is still working, I just pulled it up in a different browser so it wasn't using cache.
48 theaviator380 : Cheers..
49 Post contains links tomlee : Yeah the source of that article is "special" to say the least. http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1753.htm "As to how the US Navy was able to divert
50 StaticShock : What is continuously frustrating from my point of view is the term 'hijacking' which keeps being used. As far as I am aware there is still no proof th
51 tomlee : Not sure, it could very well be something deliberately malicious or some series of failures with non-malicious but strange looking deliberate respons
52 nupogodi : I have brought this up before. The thing is, we don't know why they are so sure. My theory is that when ACARS over SITA VHF is disabled, the a/c disco
53 longhaul67 : Propably already been discussed in one of the previous 7000+ posts, but the case of MH370 will have to result in a re-thinking of CVR requirements. I
54 nupogodi : FDRs already record many dozens of hours, I imagine the concern with long-running CVRs was privacy or perhaps the cost of retrofitting old a/c.
55 Post contains links chrisrad : More from Flying with Fish Question of the Morning: Could #MH370 have hidden its radar signature under KL836 to fly over India? - Could it have? Yes.
56 tomlee : Can't hide your satcom modem by flying close to another plane.
57 tomlee : Isn't there also a push for image/video recording as well. I would imagine if they want to make CVRs record as long as a FDR can they will need to us
58 chrisrad : Certainly not, but this theory was already bounced around on A.net a few threads ago. It would certainly be an achievement if it was done!
59 philask : To me the solution is to pipe live flight data, audio (cockpit and cabin) and video (cockpit, cabin and external) to cloud storage via satellite, thi
60 garpd : Give it a few months. Iran will then announce a brand new airliner that they have built. It'll look a lot like a 777-200ER
61 Post contains links nupogodi : Assuming extremely high standards for recording... 48kHz, 24bits / sample, 4 channels (multiple mics), 1 sec of audio is 4608000 bits. 50 hours is 82
62 nupogodi : That is no solution. You entirely overestimate the amount of bandwidth available in space. It would be prohibitively expensive, implementing such a t
63 Post contains links tomlee : I did find this report, (Did MH370 subscribe to ACARS via satcom because if they didn't I don't think the VHF ground station gets anything if a plane
64 timothy31388 : That is one huge audio file.
65 philask : Right, I forgot, this is 1960 and we can't innovate any longer. I answered too quickly, I shouldn't have bothered I didn't realize you were the OP wh
66 nupogodi : Right - and I am not suggesting that you would get an ACARS message to indicate a change. Think of your cell phone. It continuously keeps a connectio
67 tomlee : Except you have to pack that into a crash survivable module so you will have to keep things tightly packed and don't have the luxury of a 2.5 inch HD
68 nupogodi : Don't be naive. We can innovate just fine. Theoretically it's possible to have so many high-resolution imaging satellites in LEO all connected to the
69 Post contains links ThunderboltDrgn : These types of discussions is better talked about in the parallel thread: MH370 - Lessons Learned, Changes In Civil Aviation (by tortugamon Mar 9 201
70 Post contains images nupogodi : The Micron page I linked isn't actually talking about a 2.5" HDD but just the chips. You'd have to contact them for pricing. Anyhow, 25x more than co
71 tomlee : True a cellphone is constantly in contact with the network and does have many change of network and graceful methods. But ACARS is pretty old school
72 Post contains images k83713 : Right, this thread is only for conspiracy theories discussions
73 StaticShock : I totally get the point about the cost of implementation being outweighed by actual safety benefit; but can anyone explain to a techy (I am technical
74 Tapir : Do you really need the laptop to do voice analysis? Would the ATC already have the recording before taking off from KUL?
75 tomlee : No you don't understand it would be ~25x the current aviation pricing (which is obviously sky high already so 25x is even worse) that enterprise driv
76 nupogodi : That is why I am not talking about ACARS doing regular pings, but the SITA AIRCOM VHF system keeping contact with the ground station - similar to how
77 longhaul67 : I can see this concern. But in principle, they already have their privacy invaded for one hour. An unprecedented case like this seems to be, will dem
78 YoungMans : No doubt this is a 'tounge-in-cheek comment' .... Whilst it is no problem to land an aircraft on the Antarctic ice plateau, the logistics for air ope
79 nupogodi : Way more satellites. Way more ground stations. It's the cost of getting stuff to space and the inherent problems with reliable communication through
80 Post contains links tomlee : Yeah ACARS is neat considering its age and global reach but from what I've read it doesn't seem to do constant pings on VHF as that could easily satu
81 k83713 : While I agree that it can be expensive addition to the current costs, and that it wouldn't save lives, it still would save a lot of money for SAR ope
82 tomlee : There are also spectrum issues if you start adding endless ground stations and sats. Most sat systems now assume only a few people at a time will be
83 tomlee : Just modifying the ELTs that are installed so their firmware can automatically transmit test messages with location perodically and more if power and
84 tomlee : Well in terms of costs to for the SAR and possibility that planes could completely vanish if it were not for the inmarsat modem estimate at minimum u
85 nupogodi : The expense would be enormous on an unprecedented scale. MH didn't think it made sense to subscribe to AHM over SATCOM and those are tiny messages re
86 capri : maybe we hear from Dutch authorities that they checked with pilots of that night flight if they noticed strange behaviours and either emphasize on it
87 nupogodi : A very valid point as well.
88 PanHAM : I cannot speak for KUL but i can assure you that 100% of all cargo leaving Germany (and most other European countries) is 100% screened. That usually
89 Post contains images nupogodi : Well, it doesn't saturate INMARSAT. I am curious how they know though. Maybe we will find out... in a few years when the NTSB report comes out.
90 tomlee : I doubt customs in Asia checks every package given what I've seen on the declaration forms and how they don't usually match what is inside. The most
91 nupogodi : There were unconfirmed reports that the cargo was not x-ray screened on MF370 because the equipment was inop. Now, that would be pretty wild in Germa
92 tomlee : True but one hour pings to VHF ground stations like inmarsat wouldn't really be a good way to know if it was turned off either. I wonder if the 406 E
93 ltbewr : I wonder how long it will be before some greedy lawyer in the USA will file lawsuits against Boeing and USA based component makers (Honeywell for exam
94 k83713 : Ok, it sounds as valid points, but let's see, what happens. I'm curious to see the changes in security and usage of existing assets, if new technolog
95 tomlee : Is it really allowed to run an airport without a checked baggage x-ray scanner? At the airports I goto in Phillipines every bag is scanned twice (not
96 longhaul67 : What about s similar rule based system like the one ACARS use where data primarily is sent over VHF/HF. Data is only sent via satellite when VHF/HF i
97 nupogodi : Yeah but INMARSAT covers huge amounts of area. If you cover 1/60th the area you can have 60x the traffic (assuming evenly distributed traffic) and on
98 tomlee : Well given the history of US based lawsuits I'm pretty sure everyone with even a single part in a 777 is getting lawyered up. All it takes is some av
99 nupogodi : Literally all they have to do is say that it's a safety feature and provide evidence. "You can steer the plane! THAT'S A DESIGN FLAW, it can be used
100 Tapir : I know we have previously discussed about fuel. Today's press conference confirmed Mh370 carried extra 45 to 60 minutes fuel. The flight to Last conta
101 nupogodi : Well you are basically describing ACARS. It exists, you just need to convince airlines - even the poor one - to pay for the service. We could, I supp
102 tomlee : True it might be possible but the technologies are a bit different VHF vs. inmarsat so I'm not sure how comparable the two systems are. And cell towe
103 nupogodi : Extremely unlikely it carried unaccounted-for fuel unless somehow staff at the airport were "in on it". 5.5hr flight + 2hr contingency + 45-60min ext
104 tomlee : The 406 ELT network is free from what I know so if they can handle the task of picking up planes in a strange state (no transponder, no acars, no dat
105 Post contains links ThunderboltDrgn : According to the mirror this is accurate and was confirmed at the PC. 9.56AM http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...action-taken-3244038#ixzz2w83wHuF
106 enilria : Remember another pilot said he spoke to the copilot on the aircraft and then later heard a keyed mic with mumbling. I always thought that was disturb
107 nupogodi : It certainly is a possibility, although I think even if the network could handle it, there would be considerable saturation on the human side. Aircra
108 Post contains links nupogodi : http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/European_Union_Times I wouldn't expect any value from them. They seem like a tabloid. edit: LOL http://www.eutimes.net/20
109 chrisrad : Yes it was a KLM flight to AMS, highly unlikely it happened though, they say under and behind to fool radar. But don't aircraft have proximity sensor
110 k83713 : TCAS system, which operates only if both aircrafts have transponders in operation.
111 Post contains links nupogodi : TCAS works on the return from the transponder which was disabled on MH370. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gol_Transportes_A%C3%A9reos_Flight_1907
112 tomlee : True but if they automate things by using planes with ACARS to confirm things or hand cases of "strange plane state" to local ATCs instead of the cur
113 Post contains images Mortyman : Don't see why the Iranians would be so stupid as to hijac an airliner. They know what the concequences would be This is something that I don't unders
114 PanHAM : you are confusing mail and air freight. Gift items are usually sent by parcel mail and not individually on a separate awb, whereas airfreight underli
115 nupogodi : This does seem to be the most cost-effective and low-friction suggestion floated to date. It certainly makes more sense than all of the "constant CVR
116 capri : if only someone tells us at what time KL836 crossed Malacca Strait if it coincids with MH370 pesence over there
117 travelhound : I think form the last press conference we can deduce the leads associated with this being a terrorist, piracy or hijacking event are quickly going col
118 Post contains links capri : i found only this that kl836 was at fl300 which basically near fl295 that was thrown in of MH370 http://uk.flightaware.com/live/fligh.../20140307/1725
119 airbuseric : If TCAS on the MH airliner was switched off, KLM would not notice it from the alerting system.
120 k83713 : The scheduling was discussed in part 25 : [Edited 2014-03-16 06:35:13]
121 nupogodi : Wait, where is this "four hour mark" radar return coming from? Did they not last see them around 0215L en-route to IGREX at FL295? Then we have the la
122 ChaosTheory : I and a few others have posted typical fuel uptake and fuel burn numbers in posts prior. As a recap, for a KUL-PEK sector, you are looking at a trip
123 peterinlisbon : If it can all be explained by the actions of a single person, then I think that that is the most likely explanation. Why he would do all of this is un
124 Tapir : I think if we are talking about 7.5 hours fuel and the last ping was at 8 11 a.m. then the only possible scenario I can think of is the plane crashed
125 nupogodi : It was likely over water, yes. I also don't believe it landed.
126 ThunderboltDrgn : OK thanks.
127 pvjin : Unless either of the pilots managed to silence the other inside the cockpit, without anyone in cabin noticing. It's a possibility if he managed to sm
128 k83713 : Same here. Could be the mystery to search the answer for as long we did the search for Titanic, though obviously our tools have improved significantl
129 Post contains links nupogodi : Hah, I'll bet the Titanic would have had SATCOM and an ELT and many people could have been rescued. They're actually rebuilding it: http://en.wikiped
130 monjonman : Ok, here is one for someone to debunk... The aircraft heads northeast into the direction of a suspected burning aircraft as spotted by an oil rig work
131 peterinlisbon : But even if one of the pilots managed to murder the other one inside the cockpit, wouldn't he eventually need to go to the toilet or the stewardesses
132 k83713 : Could they again launch crowd-sourcing campaign with sat pictures for Indian ocean? I know plot dimensions are a bit different from those for Gulf of
133 StaticShock : Exactly- just as every other piece of "information" has lead nowhere. People need to stop speculating and just wait- imagine what it is like for the
134 nupogodi : I have absolutely zero faith in crowdsourcing efforts for things like this. If each of the "crowd" had an airplane and a crew and was trained to cond
135 Tapir : That is the only viable option. All this is unnecessary if only Malaysian air force immediately followed up the unidentified blip at the earliest opp
136 Post contains links PanAmPaul : I don't think this has been brought up yet (in all 29 threads) but pilot apparently said "all right, good night" some time after ACARS was disabled. M
137 hotelbravo : Doesn't that rule out the northern arc which is over land?
138 nupogodi : Doesn't rule it out. They had the fuel to get there. I just simply personally don't believe they're there, plus if you see the arcs as a set of "prob
139 k83713 : Well, have to live with what we have now. There are so many possible "if only..." in this story. That will give a lot of agenda for regulation author
140 Post contains links avlnative : Has this been debunked yet? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ed-opposition-leader-sodomite.html Doomed airliner pilot was political fanatic: Hou
141 DTW2HYD : Interesting you raised that point, all cargo ships are fully subscribed to INMARSAT services. Apparently sea cargo safety is more valuable than aviat
142 chrcaremanav : Hi! How are You today? I do not know if I missed a piece of news concerning Canada, if so, I am sorry, but it is not very good for Canada, because We
143 StaticShock : Thank you! I'll be hitting google and wikipedia for a bit to learn about those.
144 capri : your neighbor is dealing with it on your behalf
145 pvjin : I'm sure he could manage without toilet for enough hours. And I'm not all that sure how much communication there's between F/A during a night flight
146 nupogodi : The Daily Mail is a sensationalist rag and you shouldn't trust a word they say. I don't know if he attended the trial, but all indications are that h
147 nupogodi : Canada has significant SAR resources within our own borders, very significant considering how much of the country is sparsely inhabited, but deployin
148 cfischaleck : I really don't think so. Just because it wasn't successful doesn't mean it was a waste of time. It was worth a shot and the odds were against it .. o
149 BackSeater : MH liability implication if situation was caused by external terrorists vs. solely by cockpit crew? Any aviation legal experts on this thread? Can you
150 nupogodi : The extremely small area that was imaged for the crowdsourcing effort could have been (and was) covered by traditional SAR in a few hours.
151 Tapir : PKR, the political party, just confirmed that the Capt was an ordinary member of the party. They couldn't confirm of court attendance.
152 anstar : I would certainly hope there were procedures for regular contact. After the helios incident alot of airlines require contact via interphone between t
153 Capt747Ret : I haven't been able to keep up with all the postings. I was just wondering if anyone knows if the authorities took fingerprints off his home sim and m
154 mandala499 : FROM PREVIOUS TOPIC OK, I'm going to be totally silly here. I know the radar coverages of my country, and if I am a "mission runner", and I am to pull
155 na : He invited friends, so much is known. But you cant practise how to evade military radar. With a wife, three kids and a grandchild and an so far appar
156 nupogodi : True. So, mandala, can you speak to how they know ACARS was disabled outbound over the peninsula? Does my theory about the VHF connection to SITA g/s
157 ltbewr : No, but I have worked for over 30 years as a litigation Paralegal/Legal Assistant and related work and well aware of the reality of probability of la
158 Post contains links capri : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpL1i63lsas&feature=youtu.be latest CCTV footage of flight crew
159 britannia25 : Personally, I don't believe this was a pilot suicide - why on Earth would you fly about for hours before acting? I'm also unsure about hijack/terroris
160 awthompson : MH370 flying off on a tangent until fuel starvation may not have been the original plan by the perpetrator. If the aircraft is found, the outcome of t
161 Starlionblue : To overwrite any recordings? To ensure the plane would be almost impossible to find? For some other reason that a suicidal individual might find rati
162 fooflyboy : Quoting fooflyboy (Reply 206): But what good is a locked door if it is opened for rest room breaks and meals? What is the protocol used for opening th
163 StaticShock : If your theory is true then the police will find his manifesto or similar in his house, stating what he was planning on doing and why he did it, same
164 Post contains images garpd : That was posted a week ago And has been seen here on a few occasions.
165 na : I think your scenario sounds somewhat realistic, but the event that prevented a terrorist action must have happened earlier than reaching the Malacca
166 Dreadnought : I'm thinking that this is the most likely scenario. After the Egyptair pilot-suicide disaster, finding the wreckage and flight records caused everyon
167 fooflyboy : Acually what difference does it make if it can be disabled by just opening a circuit breaker? I'm curious tho - are current CVR's digital? Or do they
168 peterinlisbon : I don't think that someone that is involved in politics would want to kill thousands of people and destroy the largest building and a symbol of his ow
169 Post contains links twa727 : There's an article from The Telegraph along these very same lines, and some variation of this theme seems at least as plausible as the others. Like U
170 capri : i would think i keep up with things posted on here, but apparently I keep losing track, thanks for the info
171 rcair1 : It was mentioned in all my sanity checks. (working on the next one now)
172 spacecadet : 1. No 2. Call F/A's, tell them not to disturb the pilots You can't avoid the toilet for 7 hours? How do you sleep through the night? And #2 happens a
173 EricR : If it was not a mechanical issue, then it was intentionally taken off its intended route (ie. hijacked). If this was a series of failures as you ment
174 na : A big thanks for doing so!
175 PanHAM : The owners / ships Managers want to know where the vessels are, simple as that. Order spares ahead of the next port, many useful things can be done t
176 capri : I think now that is the afternoon in USA, we will hear some ineteresting infos from anynymous sources
177 k83713 : Truth will be hard to find, however, based on what we know about the captain, it doesn't show him as closed lonely person, ready to make himself feeli
178 Post contains links petertenthije : Floating debris & suit cases found by Greek oil tanker Elka Athina seen from above view. Wreckage found in Malacca Straits. https://twitter.com/as
179 mandala499 : What was the theory? You mean this? The 777 connects for ACARS datalink through the DCMF... which has a frequency list, which can be changed using a
180 k83713 : From that picture, I don't see a single suitcase. Also nice to know that tanker was Greek, but what about coordinates and other details? Doesn't look
181 ComeAndGo : Not only is it possible but thanks to the now reinforced cockpit doors, no one is going to break in to the cockpit to stop it.
182 Post contains links boacvc10 : a position fix on the tanker location from AIS Data and Google Maps [Edited 2014-03-16 09:22:30]
183 Mikey711MN : At the indicated scale, I should certainly hope not! (talk about oversized luggage!) Ultimately, what would such a find do to the current investigati
184 maxpower1954 : And #2 happens all the time in many flights? In your experience? In my 38 year airline flying career - in MY real world experience - I have never ask
185 na : Found, or only seen? Did the captain stop and take a bag on board? Or did he just steam on? That could of course quickly solve it without even wastin
186 456 : Odd that no other media source is reporting this
187 boacvc10 : I guess it must be a red herring again? People all over the world (with due reason) are just trying to help, and are seriously worried IMHO, everybod
188 Lindenwold : considering the picture was just released? media isn't going to report every single lead.
189 k83713 : Name of media bigbreakingnews.com makes this news sound funny, which is bad taking into account the topic.
190 boacvc10 : Hmmmm, how does one get an airborne picture of a region of sea, when the ship has reported it, that seems to be taken from altitude, or is it an opti
191 Post contains links Planeflyer : Quoting ushermittwoch (Reply 11): Occam's razor truly has gone down the drain here in the last few days. Keep in mind Occam’s razor does not mean on
192 Lindenwold : are you saying the picture looks like it was taken from a helicopter and not a ship? if so, i agree.
193 Post contains links flyingturtle : "Update: It appears a Reddit user found images of possible wreckage at the exact location of the Greek report in the Malacca Strait. An image of a de
194 Post contains links boacvc10 : Well, some trackback (new term I learned) resulted in this important Reddit post looks like a Virtual Tomnod photo (sat photo) and the freighter will
195 oly720man : These are satellite images from the same source that had the crowd search on tomnod.com aren't they? Same scaling and icons.
196 Oshkosh1 : Not familiar with the layout of the T7. Does it have an electronics compartment below the main deck, and would the crew have access to it? Just wonder
197 davidzill : Ship was dispatched because of imagery from satellite
198 Post contains links and images flyingturtle : And now this article http://www.iefimerida.gr/node/147278 - from the same news website - says that reports of finding suitcases were not true. David
199 nupogodi : Considering the plane was powered until 0811L, extremely unlikely the wreckage is there. How would you explain such a thing... circling until fuel sta
200 flyingturtle : This might open the possibility of MH370 being hijacked by total noobs. First up to FL 450, down to FL 230, up to 295, and then cluelessly flying aro
201 capri : Flying With Fish ‏@flyingwithfish 3m @RaulApex a Greek vessel has searched the area luggage was reported and reported there was nothing there
202 Post contains links ThunderboltDrgn : A Greek article reported the same thing several hours ago: http://translate.googleusercontent.c...ALkJrhgiJhelQcxy4MMI8sIR4VV25OIFEA
203 aftgaffe : But so much else happened that noobs should not have been able to accomplish. Turning off the transponder. Turning off ACARS. Even knowing to do thes
204 jcxroberts : I don't think this MH370 was x-rayed for whatever reason.
205 capri : Finding anything in the sea is as remote as the sea itself, news moe and more tend to believe this plane landed and were dealt with accordingly, wich
206 Post contains images rcair1 : First a synopsis ACARS ACARS data from MH370 SATCOM •Since only 1 satellite has coverge, no tringulation is possible. All that can be determined is
207 na : Who spoke the words "Good night"? The wifes/spouses of the pilots have surely identfied who it was if it was one of the two pilots. 100% sure, no 99%.
208 aftgaffe : I don't have the links at my fingertips but when the news about the "last words" was broken, the Captain was identified as the speaker.
209 Post contains links ThunderboltDrgn : "Missing Malaysia plane: MH370 and the military gaps" From an hour old BBC article: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26603830
210 mandala499 : Let's put it this way... 1. You see a target you think is a civil jet of your national carrier... 2. That jet makes a U turn back towards land... 3.
211 Post contains links aftgaffe : For example, http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/219...-mh370-pilots-last-words-revealed/ I saw this elsewhere as well but I would not discount the poss
212 na : Really, why is the world press then still saying its an unidentified voice? In any article from the major news services I read its the same. Also, I
213 capri : It has now emerged that Malaysian primary military radar tracked an unidentified contact that flew right across the country's air space, now confirme
214 jetfuel : AND THEN wait 6 hours to tell the world that a Boeing 777 is missing? Something doesn't ad up. If this happened in the USA or Europe there would have
215 SeeTheWorld : I think it means they are pretty sure it's way out in the South Indian Ocean and only certain countries with the appropriate assets will probably par
216 na : Its vital, and as both pilots were married or going to be married its totally unbelievable that the voice has not been unidentified. If there was ind
217 nupogodi : That may have been the point.
218 SeeTheWorld : I think that's an excellent point, and I'm glad that heard from you on this theory ...
219 garpd : Much ado about nothing. That looks like a wisp of cloud to me.
220 SeeTheWorld : Another excellent point ....
221 Sligo : More than the trial, I thought that the nugget that the *Captain's wife and kids moved out of the house the day before the flight* was the most impor
222 Tangowhisky : rcair1 thanks for yhe great analysis and updating the fact sheet. What would it take to conceal that the aircraft took off with higher fuel than docum
223 na : One of the myriads of MH370 "news" that was denied already.
224 flyingturtle : The whole stuff is crazy. I also thought of the possibility of a whole team of hijackers. The subgroup knows how to fly, but are taken down by passen
225 Sligo : Denied or debunked? Denials from "offiicials" are worth as much as the accusation. Where did it come from and what does the actual family say? Answer
226 mandala499 : So where were the interceptors that fateful day in 2001? Take the hindsight away... It may have taken them 6 hours to check they're seeing what they
227 rcair1 : Fuelers - dispatcher - crew. Fuelers probably from a different company. As I stated, we have had no reports of any passengers cell phones connecting.
228 wingz : Going back a bit here. I know we're no longer talking about the eye witness sighting of the burning aircraft by the oil rig worker (see esp post 22 in
229 andy33 : According to Malaysian Airlines website, their 777 fleet has satellite telephones installed in Business Class. About 20 threads back it was said that
230 rcair1 : Actually - they were up and flying, just not directed the right way. I think it was after the towers were hit but before the pentagon. Of course - to
231 rcair1 : Only that no wreckage was found and that the a/c flew for 7 more hours. I'm not at all sure a surge/flameout would case a flame like what he reported
232 flyenthu : I am listing the different modes of possible communication from the aircraft. Please chime in for more modes: 1. ACARS Information (in cockpit) 2. ACA
233 Lindenwold : How much info will we get from the black box if it is found? the last hour of it being in the air?
234 mandala499 : If I remember correctly, yes. This can be deactivated with no problems... BUT, bear in mind the SatCom we're talking about in the discussion is the a
235 flyenthu : Last 2 hrs for voice, but entire flight for data.
236 na : Every day there is a press conference, I have seen three now, and I am disappointed by the cleverness of the jounalists there who are not able at all
237 Tangowhisky : Thank you for replying, and I am sorry to bring up the cell phones, but there are many angles to this subject that require thought. Foremost, this se
238 ComeAndGo : Yes, but unarmed! They had not weapons and no rounds in the on board machine gun.
239 Post contains images WingedMigrator : That is precisely what they are, the locus of surface points at some distance from the satellite at one particular instant in time. The graphs seen b
240 k83713 : Even that will be of value, to know if the plane ended up with no fuel, for instance, full pitch down or on the slow glide with flaps out. It certain
241 Post contains links EVAAIRBR076 : I dont know if this reported already,but a dutch newspaper reports that a greek oiltanker spotted some debris and suitcases in the straight of malakka
242 mila : I don't defend the US, but the tricky thing with 9/11 was that the airplane was in US airspace. If a a/c would enter say Swedish airspace or probably
243 rcair1 : It is not ACARS pings - it is satcom pings. Details in . -- With the exception of cell phones - which probably would not work - all these can be disa
244 AR385 : It could also mean the crew were fooling them about flying somewhere while they were actually staying in one place. The ET 767 Captain hugged the coa
245 nupogodi : They did. Their own.
246 Tangowhisky : Thanks mandala499. Do we know if this system was turned off as well (apologies if this was discussed)? I am assuming the pax SATCOM is different LRU
247 DeltaMD90 : Did you even look at the past 30 or so replies??? Don't have to look at every post in every thread but at least use CTRL F and look at what people we
248 ThunderboltDrgn : It has, see reply #198 and #202 in this thread. It was concluded that there weren't any possible aircraft debris at that location.
249 EVAAIRBR076 : Well excuse me, by the time i post something mean while more posts are added between typing and posting. And i do read all the posts, from the damn f
250 flyingturtle : Now, this is the first reputable newspaper bringing this story, but compared to the Greek news website, they aren't bringing any new information. Dav
251 TheWipp : Re: FL450, FL230, was that ever confirmed? I don't think so.
252 Post contains images SB6715 : Another long time lurker here who figured this is as good a time as any to finally sign up. I have read every post in the 29 threads and not found thi
253 CheezWhiz : Supposedly there were a total of 4 SatCom pings, has anyone seen the maps of the 3 earlier pings? They would be useful for determining direction and
254 Post contains images mandala499 : That's exactly what I mean... they were up and flying, just not directed the right way. And yeah, whether I like it or not, it changed the perspectiv
255 rcair1 : Why this statement? Very strange. Actually - there were 4 a/c - all tracked by the same ATC 'system' and relatively local. Also - remember - in 2001
256 dc9northwest : I was looking at my pictures from 9M-MRF, a bit over a year ago and I don't see any seatback telephones. But maybe MRO had them installed and MRF did
257 k83713 : Are there men among F/A at MH routes or only women? Do we know their deck lay-out? If there was an assault or threat a man likely to try to resist...
258 nupogodi : Did you fly first class?
259 Post contains links SA7700 : Due to length this thread will be locked for further contributions. All posts added after the thread lock will be removed for housekeeping purposes on
260 Post contains images socalgeo : Based on this post, here is what I think we know in terms of aircraft location and range: 1) Last radar position was near the GIVAL waypoint - 200mi
261 cat3appr50 : Hard to believe that ATC red flags apparently weren’t raised (and notice to “authorities” initiated) when the expected handoff from Malaysia Cen
262 noflies : I like this and have wondered something similar for a while, but what was he avoiding when going north-west? Was that necessary? I wonder if the Capt
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