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New Zealand Aviation Part 141  
User currently offlineNZ1 From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 2266 posts, RR: 25
Posted (6 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 17224 times:
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Welcome to the 141st edition of the New Zealand Aviation Threads. Part 140 can be found here: New Zealand Aviation Part 140 (by ZKOJH Feb 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

NZ1

229 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineunclekoru From New Zealand, joined Oct 2009, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 17215 times:

Found the below in the latest Infratil operational report;


"Wellington has benefited from the Qantas-Emirates alliance which is seeing more long haul passengers traveling to Wellington via East Coast Australia rather than via another New Zealand airport. As a result, Qantas' Tasman loadings have been the highest of any of Wellington's services and these were not affected by the service cuts announced last week by Qantas in Australia.

The additional traffic is causing marked terminal congestion. It had been planned that work would already be underway on an expansion to facilities, but this was delayed due to extensive airline consultation. This is however now concluded and the final value-engineering of the project is occurring with construction to commence shortly"


I believe a similar pattern is occurring in Christchurch. The Emirates tie up may not be working for Qantas at large, but it has certainly helped them in NZ.



It sounds like english, but I can't understand a word you're saying
User currently offlineAerohottie From Australia, joined Mar 2004, 802 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (6 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 17164 times:

Quoting unclekoru (Reply 1):
I believe a similar pattern is occurring in Christchurch. The Emirates tie up may not be working for Qantas at large, but it has certainly helped them in NZ.

Indeed, for my own purposes I travel across the tasman on a weekly basis, and where previously I was exclusively AirNZ/Virgin. I now use EK's A380 services on a fairly frequent basis, and QF whenever the schedule is more suitable.
I still use NZ/VA 70-75% of the time from what was 100%



What?
User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1702 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 16981 times:

We talked about this before but here goes;


''Canberra Airport in talks with 4 international airlines including NZ!''

Canberra Airport is looking to Asia for its first international route and has reportedly met with at least four overseas airlines, in addition to Qantas and Virgin Australia, as the airport seeks to bust out of its current domestic-only status.

Air New Zealand, Emirates, Etihad Airways and Singapore Airlines have all been courted by Canberra Airport and senior members of the ACT Government to press their case.

According to Canberra Airport managing director Stephen Byron, it's only a matter of time before the airport's departure board lists its first international service – and more flight will quickly follow.

CBA expected services across the Tasman to both Auckland and Wellington by the end of 2012, or 1st QTR of 2013 at the latest ! and were still waiting....

http://www.ausbt.com.au/canberra-airport-eyes-flights-to-asia



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25260 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (6 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 16697 times:
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I think this worth a tip of the hat:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...841084/Aviation-deal-mind-boggling

"Aviation deal 'mind boggling'

Pacific Aerospace, the Hamilton aircraft manufacturer which traces its roots back to the early days of top dressing, has struck a $75 million deal in China with one of the world's largest car companies.

Prime Minister John Key is signing a co-operation agreement this afternoon between Pacific and Beijing Automotive, which will see the Kiwi company manufacturing its flagship P-750 for the Chinese market.

Pacific chief executive Damian Camp said the deal was the culmination of more than two years' work, but the scale of the deal was still "mind boggling" in terms of scale.

The P-750, which can carry up to 10 passengers, was "ideally suited" for the Chinese market because of its ability to be adapted for a number of uses, from aerial surveying to sky diving to fire fighting, Camp said.

Projections for how many planes would be required ranged between about 20 a year initially, to around 200 a year in several years time. Currently Pacific produce around 12 of the P-750 model a year, but it has capacity to increase this to around 30 annually, Camp said."


Congrats to Pacific Aerospace.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineCHCalfonzo From New Zealand, joined Mar 2007, 182 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 16698 times:

The mystery of NZ's 767 schedule to CHC continues even after the latest timetable update.

NZ94 NRT-CHC arrives 06:00 267

NZ161 CHC-PER leaves 15:00 26
NZ162 PER-CHC arrives 06:20 37

There are no CHC-AKL sectors on the timetable and when booking NRT-AKL flights, NZ94 is not an option (in the past you could book NRT-CHC-AKL on NZ90).

There are currently no CHC-SYD/MEL/BNE scheduled for 767s, and there is not enough time to operate a TT sector on Tuesday and Saturday between NRT and PER flights. Given that currently there is only a single VA flight and no NZ flights CHC-SYD on these days, wouldn't it make more sense to push the PER departure back an hour to fit a CHC-SYD-CHC rotation in?

This all seems very strange, how is NZ planning on getting the 767 back to AKL on Wednesday and more importantly Sunday when there will be 2 767s arriving first thing in the morning?



Piper power!
User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1702 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (6 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 16678 times:

As well as the planned service in June NZ will fly another rotation to the Cook Islands on April 18 ex AKL, with the 747.

NZ046 AKL0930 – 1515-1 RAR 744
NZ045 RAR1645 – 1915+1 AKL 744

What is the reason for theses flights or just extra capacity?



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlinedeconz From New Zealand, joined Nov 2010, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 16649 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 6):
As well as the planned service in June NZ will fly another rotation to the Cook Islands on April 18 ex AKL, with the 747.

NZ046 AKL0930 – 1515-1 RAR 744
NZ045 RAR1645 – 1915+1 AKL 744

What is the reason for theses flights or just extra capacity?

Extra capacity ... Easter and the start of the NZ school holidays have seen existing flights sold out right up to just a handful of full Y left on offer. These extra seats (north bound) will be snapped up in a flash  


User currently onlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 882 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 16413 times:

Quoting CHCalfonzo (Reply 5):
NZ161 CHC-PER leaves 15:00 26
NZ162 PER-CHC arrives 06:20 37

That CHC-PER departure time should be 1540, and the CHC-SYD and CHC-AKL schedules are not updated.

Re: Mo Fr NRT-CHC 1415/0600 Tu Sa.
Tu Sa CHC-SYD 0700/0830, SYD-CHC 0930/1430, CHC-PER 1540/1800, PER-CHC 1910/0620 We Su, CHC-AKL 0800?/0920?.
The We 0620 PER aircraft is required for AKL-APW 1300/1755, and the Su 0620 PER aircraft for AKL-HNL 1040/2025.

Re: Sa NRT-CHC 1415/0600 Su.
Su CHC-SYD 0700/0830, SYD-AKL Su 0930/1430, or a Su CHC-AKL 1300?/1420?.
The Su 0600 NRT aircraft is required for AKL-MEL 1530/1730.

PA515


User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 16313 times:

Quoting PA515 (Reply 8):
That CHC-PER departure time should be 1540, and the CHC-SYD and CHC-AKL schedules are not updated.

Re: Mo Fr NRT-CHC 1415/0600 Tu Sa.
Tu Sa CHC-SYD 0700/0830, SYD-CHC 0930/1430, CHC-PER 1540/1800, PER-CHC 1910/0620 We Su, CHC-AKL 0800?/0920?.

I'd suggest that the fact that CHC-PER has been scheduled for a 1500 departure on TuSa would signal that there isn't an intention to run CHC-SYD-CHC with that aircraft at 0700 on TuSa. Doing that would anyway leave a 763 "loose" in SYD on Tu, having flown AKL-SYD at 0700/0830. Then you've still got to figure out how to get that aircraft back to meet its next obligation, which is presumably in AKL later that afternoon or evening. Why woudl they announce a 1500 departure time if they were even thinking of plans already which would require it to be shifted back to 1540?


Quoting PA515 (Reply 8):
Re: Sa NRT-CHC 1415/0600 Su.
Su CHC-SYD 0700/0830, SYD-AKL Su 0930/1430, or a Su CHC-AKL 1300?/1420?.

Again, this leaves a 320 that has operated AKL-SYD at 0700/0830 Su "stranded" in SYD as the return trip is already "spoken for". So in effect you are shifting the "problem" from CHC to SYD.

Much more likely in both cases that the aircraft will operate CHC-AKL IMHO.



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently onlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 882 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 16209 times:

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 9):
I'd suggest that the fact that CHC-PER has been scheduled for a 1500 departure on TuSa would signal that there isn't an intention to run CHC-SYD-CHC with that aircraft at 0700 on TuSa.

Where I said the 1500 CHC departure should be 1540, I meant there's a transcribing error. The present CHC-PER is 1540/1800, PER-AKL 1910/0620. And if it left at 1500 there would two Air NZ aircraft at PER at the same time.

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 9):
Doing that would anyway leave a 763 "loose" in SYD on Tu, having flown AKL-SYD at 0700/0830.

Not so. There would be Tu Sa CHC-SYD 0700/0830 and Tu Sa SYD-CHC 0930/1430, followed by Tu Sa CHC-PER 1540/1800.

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 9):
Again, this leaves a 320 that has operated AKL-SYD at 0700/0830 Su "stranded" in SYD as the return trip is already "spoken for". So in effect you are shifting the "problem" from CHC to SYD.

Not if an AKL-SYD 0700/0830 320 does a Su SYD-ZQN or WLG or ROT return then a Su evening SYD-CHC or WLG, thereby shifting the 'problem' to a CHC or WLG 320 flight to AKL.

Could be wrong, but don't think so.

PA515


User currently offlinezkncj From New Zealand, joined Nov 2005, 540 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 16195 times:

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 9):
Again, this leaves a 320 that has operated AKL-SYD at 0700/0830 Su "stranded" in SYD as the return trip is already "spoken for". So in effect you are shifting the "problem" from CHC to SYD.

Don't forget the SYD-NLK-SYD services, that could possiable using this A320


User currently onlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 882 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 16178 times:

Quoting zkncj (Reply 11):
Don't forget the SYD-NLK-SYD services, that could possiable using this A320

True. And there could be just a straight swap at SYD on the Su with a 320 doing AKL-SYD 0700/0830, SYD-CHC 0930/1430 and the 763 doing CHC-SYD 0700/0830, SYD-AKL 0930/1430. Hope they update the schedule soon.

PA515


User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (6 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 16055 times:

Quoting PA515 (Reply 10):
Where I said the 1500 CHC departure should be 1540, I meant there's a transcribing error. The present CHC-PER is 1540/1800, PER-AKL 1910/0620. And if it left at 1500 there would two Air NZ aircraft at PER at the same time.

OK, that makes perfect sense if the departure time is actually 1540..

Quoting PA515 (Reply 10):
Not so. There would be Tu Sa CHC-SYD 0700/0830 and Tu Sa SYD-CHC 0930/1430, followed by Tu Sa CHC-PER 1540/1800.

In challenging that I got completely confused - you're of course corerct!

Quoting PA515 (Reply 10):
Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 9):
Again, this leaves a 320 that has operated AKL-SYD at 0700/0830 Su "stranded" in SYD as the return trip is already "spoken for". So in effect you are shifting the "problem" from CHC to SYD.

Not if an AKL-SYD 0700/0830 320 does a Su SYD-ZQN or WLG or ROT return then a Su evening SYD-CHC or WLG, thereby shifting the 'problem' to a CHC or WLG 320 flight to AKL.

On this one, though, I think that CHC-AKL is most likely (also one of your options), given that at the (literal) end of the day the 320 in question is still in CHC or WLG when it needs to be in AKL. Unless there is a need for additonal SYD-ZQN, ROT or NLK services, why not just take the 763 straight back to AKL and avoid all that palava?.



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1702 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (6 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 15976 times:

''Air New Zealand’s On-Time Performance (OTP) Among World’s Best''

Air New Zealand has been named as one of the world’s most reliable airlines in the annual FlightStats On-time Performance Service Awards.

The On-time Performance Service Awards recognise those airlines that demonstrate consistently high performance while delivering on their promise to get passengers to their destinations in a timely manner.

The high profile aviation website ranked Air New Zealand in the top three major international airlines in Asia/Pacific in terms of on-time performance, along with Japan Airlines and ANA.

http://new-zealand.etbnews.com/19439...performance-otp-among-worlds-best/



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2714 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (6 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 15932 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 4):
Congrats to Pacific Aerospace.

Indeed, though I would be planning for the Chinese to effectively pinch the design and build their own within 4-5 years. I've seen it happen with so many client firms that were totally caught off guard a few years after thinking they'd hit the jackpot. At the very least Pacific should be considering manufacture in China to delay or possibly prevent this.

Pacific are also extremely conservative - they know their niche, which is reasonable, but there's absolutely no gusto there to do much that is innovative or something that can't simply be replicated elsewhere with a little financing.

Sorry to sound cynical, but nothing is ever straightforward with China. Though there may be an off-chance they'll use the opportunity to demonstrate they can be good corporate citizens. Judging by the ARJ21 (aka MD95) and the C919 (aka, A320) though, hrmmm...


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25260 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (6 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 15914 times:
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Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 15):
Indeed, though I would be planning for the Chinese to effectively pinch the design and build their own within 4-5 years.

You may well be right, I can't predict the future. For a small firm in Hamilton, I think it's good news, whatever the future brings - better than bad news, at least.

I am more than mildly surprised that China has agreed to direct trading of the Kiwi dollar with their own currency - so congrats to NZ, too, but I'm sure some will find a downside to that.

It is what it is.

mariner

[Edited 2014-03-18 23:51:38]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7401 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (6 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 15860 times:

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 15):
Pacific are also extremely conservative - they know their niche, which is reasonable, but there's absolutely no gusto there to do much that is innovative or something that can't simply be replicated elsewhere with a little financing.

I'm surprised that Pacific haven't built ski and floatplane dirivitives of the 750, maybe they really are a little to conservative, not enough of the kiwi get up and go spirit.

[Edited 2014-03-19 00:58:20]

User currently offlineSelandiaBaru From Indonesia, joined Oct 2013, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 15740 times:

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 15):
Pacific are also extremely conservative - they know their niche, which is reasonable, but there's absolutely no gusto there to do much that is innovative or something that can't simply be replicated elsewhere with a little financing.

I think that is the key really. The PAC 750 XL traces its lineage directly back to the Fletcher of 1953, so the fundamental platform is getting fairly long in the tooth although obviously heavily updated and enlargened over the decades.

Innovation in aviation is expensive and there is some serious innovation needed if they are going to continue with this platform. Avionics is an area that needs attention and certification does not come cheap. It is becoming increasingly difficult now to source and repair the old "steam driven" instrumentation. Like everyone else PAC will need to fit a "glass" solution to all of their products.

Pilatus went down the non-integrated post assembly fit with G950's on the PC-6 Porters and that seems to be more problematic than a more integrated line fit system like the G1000. Obviously cost is a big determinant here.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6430 posts, RR: 38
Reply 19, posted (6 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 15593 times:

So word is being said about JQ finally giving up on AKL-SIN from July.. Guess we won't be seeing a long haul 787 route from them for a little while then. But when you only have a 3-4 weekly schedule, who would really want to fly with you?

EDIT: Got a source: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11223039

July 21 will mark the end of the route

[Edited 2014-03-19 15:10:45]


It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7401 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (6 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 15552 times:

Quoting SelandiaBaru (Reply 18):
The PAC 750 XL traces its lineage directly back to the Fletcher of 1953

The 737 traces its lineage directly back to the 707, your point is?


User currently offlineSelandiaBaru From Indonesia, joined Oct 2013, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 15531 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 20):
The 737 traces its lineage directly back to the 707, your point is?

It is also limited by its history having a short landing gear and a smaller cabin width etc.


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8565 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (6 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 15389 times:
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Quoting NZ107 (Reply 19):
So word is being said about JQ finally giving up on AKL-SIN from July.. Guess we won't be seeing a long haul 787 route from them for a little while then. But when you only have a 3-4 weekly schedule, who would really want to fly with you?

EDIT: Got a source: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...23039

Interesting.... I wonder whether this will work for or against the NZ/SQ tie up, or make no difference.

If they had stayed on the route, but continued to struggle, I can imagine using this as an argument against allowing the tie up as it would be likely to make it harder for Jetstar to survive on the route.

However, with them withdrawing from the route without the tieup even being approved this reduces available capacity and returns direct services to a monopoly. The proposed NZ/SQ services would actually restore capacity and frequency to the route so this may work in NZ/SQ favour.

Any other thoughts on this ?



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6430 posts, RR: 38
Reply 23, posted (6 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 15352 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 22):

Yeah, my thinking was on the same lines. Except the fact that JQ has been struggling on this route for a while suggests that you'd have to be silly to rule solely on their plight; as it's also partly down to their own doings such as reducing frequency and the likes. The NZ/SQ partnership will do more than just restore capacity I think.. Depends on how they schedule the A380 too.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3328 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (6 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 15346 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 22):
However, with them withdrawing from the route without the tieup even being approved this reduces available capacity and returns direct services to a monopoly. The proposed NZ/SQ services would actually restore capacity and frequency to the route so this may work in NZ/SQ favour.

Any other thoughts on this ?

if there is a market there, why doesn't EK operate DXB-SIN-AKL rather than going through Australia.

EK operating the sector would be much better than JQ.


User currently offlineSelandiaBaru From Indonesia, joined Oct 2013, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (6 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 15457 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 22):
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 23):

I think it shows the market for 10 hour long haul LCC service isn't there.

I never noticed an impact on the pricing of SQ flights, and certainly never entertained looking at JetStar's prices.

Supposedly SQ285/286 will go A380 over the peak summer season. There is a huge amount of capacity being added given the A380 (assuming original configuration) adds 193 daily seats. NZ using a 77E to replace SQ281/282 potentially adds another 51 seats per service.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6430 posts, RR: 38
Reply 26, posted (6 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 15425 times:

Quoting SelandiaBaru (Reply 25):

I never noticed an impact on the pricing of SQ flights, and certainly never entertained looking at JetStar's prices.

I think SQ has known all along that they don't need to do anything - those who fly with SQ are likely to stick with them for the service etc. Not only that but for the onward connections too. I wonder how much is actually O&D AKL-SIN.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinekeen2fly From New Zealand, joined Jul 2010, 61 posts, RR: 1
Reply 27, posted (6 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 15544 times:

Quoting SelandiaBaru (Reply 25):
I think it shows the market for 10 hour long haul LCC service isn't there.

I never noticed an impact on the pricing of SQ flights, and certainly never entertained looking at JetStar's prices.

I feel that the main reason JetStar's Singapore route failed was because Singapore was mainly used by New Zealanders to get SQ's seamless connections to Continental Europe and also Southeast Asia (I always found that I could get good prices on SQ to Europe AND Asia). At the end of the day, SQ has a virtually unrivalled product and unrivalled connections to Europe as well as their Asian network, they realistically never stood a chance. JetStar's poor reputation IMO didn't help their case. Another reputable airline (NZ) signing onto the route really put a nail in JetStar's Singapore coffin.


User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1702 posts, RR: 1
Reply 28, posted (6 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 15078 times:

''Jetstar cut a $70m blow: for Auckland Airport''

Jetstar's withdrawal from the Auckland-Singapore route will cost the tourism industry $70 million a year and highlights the potential detrimental effects of the proposed Air New Zealand-Singapore Airlines alliance, Auckland Airport says.

Jetstar will stop flying from Auckland to Singapore from July 21, saying the route is not performing as well as it had hoped and in the face of looming competition from a powerful Air New Zealand-Singapore Airlines strategic alliance.

Glenn Wedlock, said the alliance - which needs government approval - was a factor for other airlines considering flying from Southeast Asia to the country.

He said the airport was talking to a number of Southeast Asian and North Asian carriers about flying here.

Shall we play the guessing game?? mine would be a mix of Lcc's and full service airlines. JAL, CHINA EASTERN, AIR CHINA, UNITED,AA,AIR CANADA, GARUDA, ROYAL BRUNEI (make a return) AIR ASIA, TIGER, LION AIR, CEBU PACIFIC,

Don't think AKL can handle a mass invasion of airlines from Asia.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11223288



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlineSelandiaBaru From Indonesia, joined Oct 2013, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (6 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 14956 times:

GA signed a memorandum of understanding I think it was with AIA to say they would start Indonesia-Auckland flights by the end of 2014.

With the reconfiguration of their Amsterdam flights to direct with the 77W over a 1-stop in Abu Dhabi with the A330 and more A330's on the way that should free up capacity for CGK-AKL or DPS-AKL as has been more latterly rumoured.


User currently offlinealangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 30, posted (6 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 14820 times:

One airline that you do not mention is Scoot, which is run by a Kiwi. Tiger is short haul, whereas Scoot is long haul, and they will be using 789s in high density configuration. They have shown they are quite happy to go into markets already being served by SQ - SYD PER, and they offer joint fares between Australian cities and Thai resorts. If you are flying to Europe you fly SQ = if you are flying to Phuket you fly Scoot/Tiger Asia. Scoot is quite capable of doing far better than Jetstar.

User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1702 posts, RR: 1
Reply 31, posted (6 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 14815 times:

I did think of Scoot to add, but with SQ on the route and (if) NZ get the green light.. then you will have an A380 and a 772 offering plenty of seats plus the agreement with silk air seems pretty much covered. Could Scoot fly to WLG? with the 787? WLG after all wants a route to SIN if they get a longer runway. !


NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4986 posts, RR: 5
Reply 32, posted (6 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 14663 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 31):
Could Scoot fly to WLG? with the 787? WLG after all wants a route to SIN if they get a longer runway. !

With a 242 seat config. a 788 would be good for about 8-hours out of WLG. TOW would be limited to about 185t This assumes the 6350ft runway still applies. Not good enough for SIN which probably needs about 10-hours.


User currently offlineJetstar315 From Australia, joined Sep 2007, 54 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (6 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 14481 times:
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In all fairness to Jetstar, why would they want to continue AKL-SIN if the support from the public is not there. You have to remember that the whole of NZ only has a population roughly the same as Melbourne (c. 4 Million) so JQ couldn't hope to compete with the number of seats a year that SQ/NZ will now be offering between the 2 cities.

The other thing to think about, is due to the QF issues at present, 3 of JQ's new 787s have been deferred which means they just HAVE to divert their resources to routes that will make money. Jetstar made a profit every year until this year, and IMHO I think that the current result has been caused by over-ambitious expansion in Asia/Japan - but they obviously do something right! After all, they've carried way over 100 million passengers since start up 9 years and 9 months ago - a pretty good testament to their operation. They've won many Skytrax/CAPA awards and their fares have enabled a huge number of Australians in particular, who had previously flown very infrequently, the opportunity to fly more often.

I get a little tired of reading posts by people who openly say they have never flown JQ, but are happy to knock what JQ does or does not do. They're an integral part of the QF Group and while their parent is going through hard times, it will not be easy for JQ to expand, especially in a relatively small market.


User currently onlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 882 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 14467 times:

Someone has put a flightradar24 receiver 1900 metres up the Benmore Range next to Lake Benmore. The radar code is NZGT1 (Glentanner) giving better coverage into the Tasman for the ZQN/DUD/CHC flights.

Earlier today NZNV1 (airliners.net member) tracked RAAF Beech Super King Air A32-372 until about 340 kms west of IVC. And there's now NZRO1 covering down to ground level at Rotorua Airport.

PA515


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25260 posts, RR: 85
Reply 35, posted (6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 14459 times:
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Quoting Jetstar315 (Reply 33):
In all fairness to Jetstar, why would they want to continue AKL-SIN if the support from the public is not there.

  

Further to that, it has to be remembered that Air NZ could not make AKL-SIN work on its own and dropped the route.

This suggests that the O&D traffic AKL-SIN is not particularly strong and that the route might be reliant on onward connections, at SIN, probably to India and Europe - maybe some to other Asia - thus it makes sense for Air NZ to tie up with SQ, which can provide those onward connections.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4832 posts, RR: 9
Reply 36, posted (6 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 14371 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 35):
Further to that, it has to be remembered that Air NZ could not make AKL-SIN work on its own and dropped the route.

NZ used 763 (old config) on it for too long so that by the time they put the 772 onto it it was too late - they had lost their customers to SQ. Having SQ code sharing will however make a big difference.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineSelandiaBaru From Indonesia, joined Oct 2013, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (6 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 14382 times:

Quoting Jetstar315 (Reply 33):

I've flown on JetStar when my company has booked me CGK-SIN-CGK. The condition of the aircraft interior left a lot to be desired, as did the professionalism of the cabin crew. I would never pay my own money to fly with them. I have certainly heard an abundance of complaints about their services from friends and colleagues.

JetStar obviously has a fairly significant network with JetStar Asia (now 100% controlled by the Qantas group) and certainly the idea behind the AKL-SIN service was to feed into that network just as SQ and soon NZ will do with the SQ and MI networks.

The reality is JetStar has been a distraction for the Qantas group where they now find themselves becoming increasingly irrelevant and poorly managed. As the recent JetStar results within group financials have shown the cannibalisation of mainline Qantas is now beginning to affect the financials of the JetStar itself - a strong Qantas was needed to support JetStar.

Quoting mariner (Reply 35):
Further to that, it has to be remembered that Air NZ could not make AKL-SIN work on its own and dropped the route.

Indeed, and a number of factors contributed to this. Like JetStar at the time they had a product that was not meeting the expectations of the market. The fallout from the Ansett debacle also meant next to no effective relationship with Star Alliance partner SQ.


User currently offlineunclekoru From New Zealand, joined Oct 2009, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (6 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 14347 times:

Not sure about outbound demand, but a reasonable number of Singaoreans visit NZ. It also appears to be a growth market, annual visitor numbers were 43,056 YE Jan 2014 up from 29,468 in 2010. It can also be noted that JQs entrance on the SIN-AKL route did lead to a significant increase in visitor numbers from May 2011.

Visitor arrivals per day (based on country of residence - Year end Jan 2014).

Australia 3360
China PRC 658
USA 550
UK 533
Japan 204
Canada 132
Singapore 118
India 86
Hong Kong 81
Malaysia 81
France 76
Taiwan 61
Netherlands 59
Thailand 57
Switzerland 46
Samoa 46
South Africa 42
Indonesia 37
Phillipines 28

Source: Statistics NZ



It sounds like english, but I can't understand a word you're saying
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25260 posts, RR: 85
Reply 39, posted (6 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 14333 times:
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Quoting unclekoru (Reply 38):
Not sure about outbound demand, but a reasonable number of Singaoreans visit NZ. It also appears to be a growth market, annual visitor numbers were 43,056 YE Jan 2014 up from 29,468 in 2010. It can also be noted that JQs entrance on the SIN-AKL route did lead to a significant increase in visitor numbers from May 2011.

Even so, it has been shown - twice - that the market can't support two airlines operating independently of each other, unless something gives. Which it has.

Air NZ is "taking over" half the flights from Singapore Airlines:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11187525

"While Air New Zealand will take over half of the flights currently operated by Singapore Airlines to this country, the Singaporean carrier will also upgrade its services, moving towards flying its A380 on a seasonal basis to this country for the first time.

Air New Zealand says the deal could boost capacity between New Zealand and Singapore by up to 30 per cent year round over time."


So Singapore is effectively "giving" half its flights to Air NZ meaning very little change in capacity. The boost in capacity will come if and when the A380 is deployed on the route.

The Jetstar pax become a bonus.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently onlinexiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 840 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (6 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 14293 times:

Quoting unclekoru (Reply 38):
Not sure about outbound demand, but a reasonable number of Singaoreans visit NZ. It also appears to be a growth market, annual visitor numbers were 43,056 YE Jan 2014 up from 29,468 in 2010. It can also be noted that JQs entrance on the SIN-AKL route did lead to a significant increase in visitor numbers from May 2011.

NZ's intention has been no doubt the connections to all the Southeast Asia market served by SQ/MI which has a huge growth potential. This perhaps also eliminates the need to operate a route to India.

What SQ gains perhaps are the pax to Europe who are unwilling to go via North America and of course the importance of a relationship with NZ so they are in a better position to control the future direction of VA.

I think the best decision NZ made in recent years was the VA investment. I don't think SQ would have entertained to the idea of an NZ alliance if it wasn't for VA.


User currently offlinezkncj From New Zealand, joined Nov 2005, 540 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (6 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 14281 times:

How much value are the budget Jetstar passengers on SIN-AKL? surely they would contribute that much to the economy. After all its target market is the budget package traveler, that aren't going to stay in pricey hotels, spends large amounts on food/wine.

One could agrue that the NZ/SQ deal is better for the economy on the long run


User currently offlinenascarnut From New Zealand, joined Oct 2008, 287 posts, RR: 2
Reply 42, posted (6 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 14304 times:

I think Air NZ has been incredibly smart in how the approach the NZ aviation market. NZ is a small markets in world terms but Air NZ has been able to capatilize on it. Look at how it operates.
AKL-VLI - Codeshare with Air Vanuatu
AKL-NOU - Codeshare with Air Caledonie
AKL-PPT - Codeshare with Air Tahiti Nui
AKL-HKG - Codeshare with Cathay
AKL-NRT - Codeshare with ANA
AKL-PVG - Codeshare with Air China
NZ-Australia - Codeshare with Virgin Australia
AKL-USA - Codeshare with United Airlines
AKL-YVR - Codeshare with Air Canade
Throw in all the Star Alliance airlines.
The only market they do not codeshare with the local airlines are Fiji/Tonga/Samoa/Cook Islands.
and now AKL-SIN - Codeshare with Singapore Airlines
That is how they protect the market they operate in


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25260 posts, RR: 85
Reply 43, posted (6 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 14261 times:
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Quoting zkncj (Reply 41):
One could agrue that the NZ/SQ deal is better for the economy on the long run

I guess one could, but I wouldn't. I have enormous respect for the LCC market. Some of the most continuously profitable airlines in the world cater exclusively to that market.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently onlinexiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 840 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (6 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 14267 times:

Quoting nascarnut (Reply 42):
The only market they do not codeshare with the local airlines are Fiji/Tonga/Samoa/Cook Islands.

Apparently they do with Fiji Airways.

http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/co-operation-fiji-airways


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8565 posts, RR: 13
Reply 45, posted (6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 14245 times:
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^ NZ codeshare with FJ, but only on NAN-LAX, not on the local market between New Zealand and Fiji.


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlinedeconz From New Zealand, joined Nov 2010, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 14243 times:

Quoting PA515 (Reply 34):
Someone has put a flightradar24 receiver 1900 metres up the Benmore Range next to Lake Benmore. The radar code is NZGT1 (Glentanner) giving better coverage into the Tasman for the ZQN/DUD/CHC flights.

Earlier today NZNV1 (airliners.net member) tracked RAAF Beech Super King Air A32-372 until about 340 kms west of IVC. And there's now NZRO1 covering down to ground level at Rotorua Airport.

PA515

That's great to see even better coverage of the deep south on FR24. I'm NZNV1 by the way  


User currently offlineunclekoru From New Zealand, joined Oct 2009, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 14216 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 39):
Even so, it has been shown - twice - that the market can't support two airlines operating independently of each other, unless something gives. Which it has.

Air NZ is "taking over" half the flights from Singapore Airlines:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...e.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11187525

"While Air New Zealand will take over half of the flights currently operated by Singapore Airlines to this country, the Singaporean carrier will also upgrade its services, moving towards flying its A380 on a seasonal basis to this country for the first time.

Air New Zealand says the deal could boost capacity between New Zealand and Singapore by up to 30 per cent year round over time."

So Singapore is effectively "giving" half its flights to Air NZ meaning very little change in capacity. The boost in capacity will come if and when the A380 is deployed on the route.

The Jetstar pax become a bonus.

I realise that, and agree. I was simply pointing out that 1) there was an increase in O&D travelers when Jetstar entered the market and that 2) the O & D market ex SIN has in fact grown and that it is not quite as small as I had assumed. It may well contract again once JQ leave the market, but that remains to be seen.

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 40):
NZ's intention has been no doubt the connections to all the Southeast Asia market served by SQ/MI which has a huge growth potential. This perhaps also eliminates the need to operate a route to India.

What SQ gains perhaps are the pax to Europe who are unwilling to go via North America and of course the importance of a relationship with NZ so they are in a better position to control the future direction of VA.

I think the best decision NZ made in recent years was the VA investment. I don't think SQ would have entertained to the idea of an NZ alliance if it wasn't for VA.

I think this joint venture is one of a series of moves being made by SQ that is part of a strategy to shore up feed in an attempt to stop further inroads being made by the ME3, with the Silk air feed being a bonus. The advantages for Air NZ are somewhat different as you infer. I'm not sure that the investment in VA was necessarily a key factor behind the link up though.

Quoting zkncj (Reply 41):
How much value are the budget Jetstar passengers on SIN-AKL? surely they would contribute that much to the economy. After all its target market is the budget package traveler, that aren't going to stay in pricey hotels, spends large amounts on food/wine.

One could agrue that the NZ/SQ deal is better for the economy on the long run

Who knows. That segment of the market may disappear when confronted with the fares that SQ/NZ will charge once JQ is gone, shrinking the market - even if it is the bottom end.



It sounds like english, but I can't understand a word you're saying
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25260 posts, RR: 85
Reply 48, posted (6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 14209 times:
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Quoting unclekoru (Reply 47):
It may well contract again once JQ leave the market, but that remains to be seen.

Sure, it may shrink some - it will be interesting to see.

There are quite a few LCC pax who will pay higher fares but don't see the point in doing so if a lower fare is available - it's just a seat on a plane.

If that low fare becomes unavailable, they'll still fly - although they may grumble about the price.  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineunclekoru From New Zealand, joined Oct 2009, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 14216 times:

Quoting Aerohottie (Reply 2):
Quoting unclekoru (Reply 1):
I believe a similar pattern is occurring in Christchurch. The Emirates tie up may not be working for Qantas at large, but it has certainly helped them in NZ.

Indeed, for my own purposes I travel across the tasman on a weekly basis, and where previously I was exclusively AirNZ/Virgin. I now use EK's A380 services on a fairly frequent basis, and QF whenever the schedule is more suitable.
I still use NZ/VA 70-75% of the time from what was 100%

I have a similar story although I traveled NZ due to staff travel privileges and just continued to do so after I left without much thought, that was until I discovered the big wide world!

I still use Air NZ from time to time, and I appreciate their high operational standards, but the QF/EK network blows NZ away, as does their product.



It sounds like english, but I can't understand a word you're saying
User currently offlineunclekoru From New Zealand, joined Oct 2009, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 14215 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 48):
There are quite a few LCC pax who will pay higher fares but don't see the point in doing so if a lower fare is available - it's just a seat on a plane.

If that low fare becomes unavailable, they'll still fly - although they may grumble about the price.  

I agree, and I suspect many Singaporeans are of that inclination - but I don't know for sure.



It sounds like english, but I can't understand a word you're saying
User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 51, posted (6 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 13996 times:

Quoting unclekoru (Reply 38):
Visitor arrivals per day (based on country of residence - Year end Jan 2014).

Australia 3360
China PRC 658
USA 550
UK 533
Japan 204
Canada 132
Singapore 118
India 86
Hong Kong 81
Malaysia 81
France 76
Taiwan 61
Netherlands 59
Thailand 57
Switzerland 46
Samoa 46
South Africa 42
Indonesia 37
Phillipines 28

Source: Statistics NZ

What about Korea?

It's interesting that visitors from China exceed the number of seats offered direct (at winter frequencies, at least). This must mean that there are many pax who travel via (I assume) Hong Kong, Singapore or Australia, primarily. With Chinese market growth like this (to the second highest numbers per day on the list, above the United States and the UK), how long will it be before Beijing is restarted? Could this be the Asian destination which is rumoured to be announced, perhaps?

Interesting, too, that India (slightly) exceeds Hong Kong and Malaysia, both of which have nonstop flights. And that there are as many Swiss who come here as there are Samoans.



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently onlinexiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 840 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (6 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 14044 times:

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 51):
With Chinese market growth like this (to the second highest numbers per day on the list, above the United States and the UK), how long will it be before Beijing is restarted? Could this be the Asian destination which is rumoured to be announced, perhaps?

The CX alliance is partially to cover the absence of a PEK service I think. I would rather see CA open PEK-AKL although I am not sure if CZ has almost taken all the allocations for Chinese airlines.

Where did the rumour about the new Asian destination come from? Was it a 767 or 777 that had some free time?


User currently onlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 882 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (6 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 13913 times:

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 52):
Where did the rumour about the new Asian destination come from? Was it a 767 or 777 that had some free time?

From my Reply 170 in New Zealand Aviation Part 140.

Quote:

This is what Luxon said; 2013 Annual Review, page 4, last paragraph:

Quote:
The Pacific Rim offers us significant growth opportunities, and it is pleasing to report that we are seeing consistent traffic increases on our routes. While China in particular will see strong travel growth to New Zealand, we are actively exploring other opportunities in Asia and expect to be in a position to make growth related announcements during the coming year

The phrases 'other opportunities in Asia' and 'announcements during the coming year' got my attention. I guess an announcement during the coming year could relate to a 2015 event.
SIN has been announced and there is some 77E and 763 time unaccounted for in the 2014/15 schedule. Could be nothing, could be MNL, ICN etc.

PEK would be difficult as the available slot times appear to be between 0100 and 0600. Not sure if the slots for the previous two flights can be reactivated, but understood Air NZ could not get additional days at those times.

Quoting deconz (Reply 46):
That's great to see even better coverage of the deep south on FR24. I'm NZNV1 by the way

Thought it might be you. Realised afterwards there were two RAAF Super King Air's IVC-HBA yesterday.

A32-343 IVC-HBA 1138/1538 NZDT and A32-372 IVC-HBA 1216/1603 NZDT. Under 4 hrs for A32-372 which was at 28,000 ft. The RAAF have 16 Super King Airs and they are in the flightradar24 database under the 'airline code' ASY.

PA515

[Edited 2014-03-22 14:16:26]

User currently offlineUnclekoru From New Zealand, joined Oct 2009, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 54, posted (6 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13665 times:

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 51):
What about Korea?

It's interesting that visitors from China exceed the number of seats offered direct (at winter frequencies, at least). This must mean that there are many pax who travel via (I assume) Hong Kong, Singapore or Australia, primarily. With Chinese market growth like this (to the second highest numbers per day on the list, above the United States and the UK), how long will it be before Beijing is restarted? Could this be the Asian destination which is rumoured to be announced, perhaps?

Interesting, too, that India (slightly) exceeds Hong Kong and Malaysia, both of which have nonstop flights. And that there are as many Swiss who come here as there are Samoans.

Sorry, it was an abbreviated list, see below for all countries in the document.

Australia 3360
China PRC 658
USA 550
UK 533
Japan 204
Germany 196
Korea, Republic 141
Canada 132
Singapore 118
India 86
Hong Kong 81
Malaysia 81
France 76
Fiji 65
Taiwan 61
Netherlands 59
Thailand 57
New Caledonia 48
Switzerland 46
Samoa 46
French Poly' 42
South Africa 42
Tonga 39
Indonesia 37
Sweden 33
Brazil 29
Phillipines 28
Ireland 28
Cook Islands 26
Denmark 24
Europe 1167
Asia 1581
Americas 763
Africa/Mid East 106

All figures sourced from Statistics NZ IVA reports.

Seasonal variations are quite marked, arrivals fluctuate between 150,000 (all markets) in May and 380,000 in Dec. The winter months are very quiet in comparison to summer (as we know).

Markets that shrank last year were few (Korea, South Africa, Ireland and the Cook Islands), but there are a few more that show declining numbers when you compare last year to 2010 for example;

PA difference in visitor numbers YE Jan 2010 vs YE Jan 2014
UK -3,263
Japan -5,242
Korea -3,263
Canada -745
Netherlands -2,996
Samoa -752
French Polynesia -4,380
South Africa -3,490
Brazil -1,323
Ireland -6,308
Cook Islands -1,339
Denmark -1,146

There were 58,745 fewer visitors from Europe in YE Jan 2014 when compared to YE Jan 2010 and 185,361 more visitors from Asia during the same period. The Americas were pretty much static.

The one that stands out for me is Taiwan. How are CI doing at Auckland? I hope they're selling a few tickets across the Tasman.

[Edited 2014-03-22 22:33:35]


It sounds like english, but I can't understand a word you're saying
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25260 posts, RR: 85
Reply 55, posted (6 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13674 times:
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Quoting Unclekoru (Reply 54):
Americas 763

Does "Americas" mean Central/South America, excluding the US and Canada, or the whole thing?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineUnclekoru From New Zealand, joined Oct 2009, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (6 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13670 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 55):
Does "Americas" mean Central/South America, excluding the US and Canada, or the whole thing?

mariner

The whole thing.



It sounds like english, but I can't understand a word you're saying
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25260 posts, RR: 85
Reply 57, posted (6 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13685 times:
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Quoting Unclekoru (Reply 56):
The whole thing.

Thanks. So I make that 81 from (I assume) South America.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineUnclekoru From New Zealand, joined Oct 2009, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 58, posted (6 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13677 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 57):
Quoting Unclekoru (Reply 56):
The whole thing.

Thanks. So I make that 81 from (I assume) South America.

mariner

Correct Mariner.



It sounds like english, but I can't understand a word you're saying
User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1702 posts, RR: 1
Reply 59, posted (6 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 13666 times:

I would really be happy if NZ returned to PEK direct to AKL is better then going via PVG/HKG or NRT, if it was to happen it would not be until after 2017 and would use the 787, right now PEK is full and with what slots are going CA seem to take them all the time.


NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 60, posted (6 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 13622 times:

Quoting Jetstar315 (Reply 33):
I get a little tired of reading posts by people who openly say they have never flown JQ, but are happy to knock what JQ does or does not do. They're an integral part of the QF Group and while their parent is going through hard times, it will not be easy for JQ to expand, especially in a relatively small market.

I have flown Jetstar International Business Class HNL-SYD (5,000 miles) and I'm happy to compare it with Scoot's ScootBiz which I flew on a 3,900 mile SIN-OOL sector.

The seat is very similar.

The IFE is very similar.

The amenities on Jetstar are significantly better in terms of pillow, blanket, amenity pack, and are worth an extra $20 per sector.

The food and drink on Jetstar are significantly better than Scoot, and are worth an extra $30 per sector.

In other words, Jetstar's product probably costs them around an extra $50 per long-haul sector per passenger to provide than Scoot's.

Quoting Jetstar315 (Reply 33):
The other thing to think about, is due to the QF issues at present, 3 of JQ's new 787s have been deferred which means they just HAVE to divert their resources to routes that will make money. Jetstar made a profit every year until this year, and IMHO I think that the current result has been caused by over-ambitious expansion in Asia/Japan - but they obviously do something right! After all, they've carried way over 100 million passengers since start up 9 years and 9 months ago - a pretty good testament to their operation. They've won many Skytrax/CAPA awards and their fares have enabled a huge number of Australians in particular, who had previously flown very infrequently, the opportunity to fly more often.

And now you are confusing Jetstar long-haul, Jetstar's 1 hour domestic sectors, and QaNTAS.

The vast bulk of Jetstar's passengers are on ultra-short haul sectors where they don't need to even buy a baggage allowance.

Jetstar long-haul is loss-making, as supposedly is Qantas long-haul although that claim is highly dubious because most of Jetstar's long-haul charges appear to be invoiced to Qantas.

The reason why Jetstar long-haul is a terrible idea is because when any of us buy a Jetstar ticket we are effectively doing a deal, the same deal as with Scoot: purchasing a lousy product because it's cheap.

That's okay on short-haul, and can work for both parties, as Ryanair and Easyjet and Air Asia will attest.

But on long-haul, it only makes sense to buy Jetstar if the price is unbelievably low. As soon as they try to lift their yields it becomes a no-brainer to fly on a proper airline with a decent product, such as Singapore Airlines or Hawaiian Airlines.

So they are trapped in a self-defeating low-quality low-yield model, which people will tolerate short-haul but which will only ever bleed red ink long-haul.

In the case of Singapore, the SQ/NZ alliance can leverage its scale and volumes to compete with Jetstar at the bottom end for price while then blowing them to smithereens in the higher-yielding market sectors.

There could only be one winner, and Jetstar International's fundamentally flawed business model will ultimately do the same thing to all their long-haul markets that anyone else can be bothered to serve.


User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 61, posted (6 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 13544 times:

Quoting Unclekoru (Reply 54):
Sorry, it was an abbreviated list, see below for all countries in the document.

Australia 3360
China PRC 658
USA 550
UK 533
Japan 204
Germany 196
Korea, Republic 141
Canada 132
. . . etc . . .

Another interesting observation is that, despite daily or near flights on SCL-AKL, there are insufficient Chileans to rate a separate mention on the list. You'd have thought that the much-vaunted close links with Chile would have led to at least 10% of the capacity on each flight having Chilean passports? By my quick calculation, there were only 52 daily arrivals with passports from the whole of the Americas, excluding USA, Canada and Brazil - probably mostly Chileans, Argentinians, Mexicans? Uruguayans? Peruvians? Ecuadorians?

What follows from this is that, without a truly solid codeshare network and a massive marketing effort in a wider South American market, an NZ foray into the continent will be predominantly aimed at other nationalities visiting South America, rather than South Americans outbound. So that emphasises the importance of connections linking its Asian ports with South America, as well as (naturally) ensuring smooth connections from Australian ports.



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25260 posts, RR: 85
Reply 62, posted (6 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 13500 times:
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Quoting koruman (Reply 60):
Jetstar long-haul is loss-making, as supposedly is Qantas long-haul although that claim is highly dubious because most of Jetstar's long-haul charges appear to be invoiced to Qantas.

I have only ever heard that as rumour.

Quoting koruman (Reply 60):
In the case of Singapore, the SQ/NZ alliance can leverage its scale and volumes to compete with Jetstar at the bottom end for price while then blowing them to smithereens in the higher-yielding market sectors.

Let us not get too smug about this.

Let us not forget that Air NZ gave up AKL-SIN, too, and is only going back on extremely advantageous terms - such as Singapore giving up some of its capacity.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineUnclekoru From New Zealand, joined Oct 2009, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 63, posted (6 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 13393 times:

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 61):
Another interesting observation is that, despite daily or near flights on SCL-AKL, there are insufficient Chileans to rate a separate mention on the list. You'd have thought that the much-vaunted close links with Chile would have led to at least 10% of the capacity on each flight having Chilean passports? By my quick calculation, there were only 52 daily arrivals with passports from the whole of the Americas, excluding USA, Canada and Brazil - probably mostly Chileans, Argentinians, Mexicans? Uruguayans? Peruvians? Ecuadorians?

Yes, I was surprised to see that Chile does not make the list too.

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 61):
What follows from this is that, without a truly solid codeshare network and a massive marketing effort in a wider South American market, an NZ foray into the continent will be predominantly aimed at other nationalities visiting South America, rather than South Americans outbound. So that emphasises the importance of connections linking its Asian ports with South America, as well as (naturally) ensuring smooth connections from Australian ports.

  



It sounds like english, but I can't understand a word you're saying
User currently onlinexiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 840 posts, RR: 0
Reply 64, posted (6 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 13303 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 62):
Let us not forget that Air NZ gave up AKL-SIN, too, and is only going back on extremely advantageous terms - such as Singapore giving up some of its capacity.

I am not sure SQ gave up some capacity. They were never double daily year round. With NZ sharing some risks, they could put the capacity to better use, such as more flights to Australia. Everyone is happy. I heard they were talking to CBR.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25260 posts, RR: 85
Reply 65, posted (6 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 13313 times:
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Quoting xiaotung (Reply 64):
I am not sure SQ gave up some capacity.

I don't know what else this means:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11187525

"While Air New Zealand will take over half of the flights currently operated by Singapore Airlines to this country, the Singaporean carrier will also upgrade its services, moving towards flying its A380 on a seasonal basis to this country for the first time.[/quote]

But - let's look at another source:

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/CU140...singapore-airlines-join-forces.htm

"Air New Zealand would launch daily services between Auckland and Singapore using newly refitted Boeing 777-200ER aircraft, taking over five flights currently operated by Singapore Airlines and adding two more weekly flights, increasing the frequency to daily."

There are five flights a week that Singapore won't be flying on its open metal, giving up its own capacity in favour of the partner's metal. Of course, Singapore can put that metal to other use, I doubt they want to leave it sitting around.

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 64):
Everyone is happy.

Sure, they are. It is a sweet, sweet deal.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4986 posts, RR: 5
Reply 66, posted (6 months 23 hours ago) and read 13210 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 65):
Sure, they are. It is a sweet, sweet deal.

So what are the odds of it being approved without SQ/NZ having to give up something?


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25260 posts, RR: 85
Reply 67, posted (6 months 18 hours ago) and read 13111 times:
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Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 66):
So what are the odds of it being approved without SQ/NZ having to give up something?

I've no idea, I don't really understand the thinking. I posted a link to the advice to the Minister for the Cathay deal, but that link has now gone dead. This is what it said about the competition issues:

"The reduction in competition will clearly give the applicants incentives to increase prices and/or reduce capacity. However, the impact of this will be limited to a relatively small group of consumers. Most passengers on the Auckland-Hong Kong route are travelling beyond Hong Kong to other destinations. There are a range of options for passengers travelling to these points and we do not consider that a reduction of competition in these markets is a concern."

I don't really sees how they can avoid tha fact that two airlines - Air NZ and Jetstar - have failed on the route when operating independently and the consensus on the Aussie board is that Singapore is a great connecting point but is not a great O&D market.

The fact that Jetstar's low fares couldn't stimulate the market seems to confirm this and suggests that the purely O&D market is close to saturated. While Jetstar provides some connections at SIN, it doesn't, as one example, provide connections to India.

Which is another point. With this deal, Air NZ makes itself relevant to the Kiwi Indian community, many of whom use Singapore to get to and from India. This seems moderately important - to me - and may trump competition issues, but I've no idea if Wellington shares that view.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineSelandiaBaru From Indonesia, joined Oct 2013, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 68, posted (6 months 13 hours ago) and read 12965 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 67):
I don't really sees how they can avoid tha fact that two airlines - Air NZ and Jetstar - have failed on the route when operating independently and the consensus on the Aussie board is that Singapore is a great connecting point but is not a great O&D market.

8 years between failures of each. NZ with the 763 product as it was could not compete. At the time I believe SQ only had the 744 operating on the route (happy to be corrected). The 763 was the wrong aircraft for the route and NZ acknowledged that by suggesting the 772 would go on it when it arrived but decided against it when the time came, favouring China directly.

Cargo capacity is very important on this route and obviously the 772 will offer far greater cargo capacity than the 763. The dreaded 3-4-3 reconfiguration will add 927 seats a week with the daily 772 replacing the 5 weekly SQ 772. The A380 over the peak summer period will add 1351 a week, the extra NZ 772 capacity hopefully making up for the lesser cargo capacity over the 773.

As I have said earlier the presence of JetStar on the route from my observations as a regular had no affect on the pricing or load factors of the SQ flights, if anything due to the lack of capacity prices seemed to be moving upwards.

I also suggest the NZ-SIN market is a bit different to the AUS-SIN market based on casual observations on flights between Singapore-Austalia and Singapore-New Zealand.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25260 posts, RR: 85
Reply 69, posted (6 months 12 hours ago) and read 12863 times:
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Quoting SelandiaBaru (Reply 68):
8 years between failures of each.

Whatever the time span, neither airline could make it work, and both were relying - largely - on O&D. Jetstar was pretty much downhill from the git-go, reducing from daily to 4 x weekly to 3 x weekly. The fact that the new deal only has two flights a week overall increase in capacity suggests the market hasn't changed too much. The difference for Air NZ this time is the stellar connections at SIN - to places Kiwis might want to go. But SQ is dropping (or "giving" to Air NZ) 5 x weekly flights.

Cargo may be important, but it doesn't change the pax numbers, or lack thereof, and - whatever aircraft - the pax numbers were not enough and, as we see from Jetstar, were impervious to the stimulation of low fares.

Quoting SelandiaBaru (Reply 68):
I also suggest the NZ-SIN market is a bit different to the AUS-SIN market based on casual observations on flights between Singapore-Austalia and Singapore-New Zealand.

Yes, I agree. I made a post on the Aussie thread, defining some of those differences.

On the very simplest level, Aussies have been flocking to Bali for decades, AKL-DPS is quite recent (and seasonal, less than daily). Aussies crowd the beaches of Phuket - Air NZ has a very occasional charter to the island.

Australia has (about) 175,000 Vietnamese - a large potential VFR market. NZ has (about) 5000 Vietnamese - not much VFR there.

But as I've previously noted every Kiwi Indian I've met uses Singapore - the airline and the hub - to go to and from India, a strong VFR (and maybe some business) market, but Air NZ has been largely irrelevant to them. If Jetstar had connections at SIN to India, they might have picked up some of that traffic.

mariner

[Edited 2014-03-23 17:27:55]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1702 posts, RR: 1
Reply 70, posted (5 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 12390 times:

''Drunken passenger banned from JQ for smoking and gun jokes on CHC bound flight"!

A drunken airline passenger who lit a cigarette and claimed to have an AK-47 assault rifle in his bag has been fined $500 and banned from the airline for his return trip home.

The man, an Australian aged in his 30s, was escorted off the Jetstar flight JQ 171 by police officers once it landed at Christchurch, from Melbourne, on Monday morning.

Sergeant Brian Kench, of Christchurch Airport police station, confirmed today that the "belligerent and disruptive" man was issued with an unruly passenger infringement notice for $500 for breaches of the Civil Aviation Act.

"He was allowed to land, before being issued with this $500 infringement notice. !! WTF would have thrown the book at him. Why do people not learn!

''He was fined and let go.''!

Hope NZ's rules are a lot different the guy can swim home!

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11226131



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7107 posts, RR: 11
Reply 71, posted (5 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 12149 times:

500 bucks is a joke, with punishments so lenient there might as well be no punishment at all

User currently offlineBlackLabel From New Zealand, joined Jan 2008, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 72, posted (5 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 12049 times:

Quoting SelandiaBaru (Reply 68):
I also suggest the NZ-SIN market is a bit different to the AUS-SIN market based on casual observations on flights between Singapore-Austalia and Singapore-New Zealand.

Fairly true in my view. I spent quite a lot of time over a five-year span (including through the GFC) flying between SIN and Australia and New Zealand, at least once a month, using a mix of SQ to AKL, SQ to MEL/SYD and connecting on NZ to AKL/WLG, or QF to SYD/MEL (connecting to AKL/WLG as required).

There is a lot more O&D AU-SG, principally because of the huge number of Australian expats in Singapore and the relatively tight business links between Singapore regional hubs for corporates and HQ or big branches in Australia; but also because Singapore was a cheap place for Australians to go shopping for a weekend with a relatively (!) short long-haul flight. You can certainly see the volume of AU-SG traffic when you look at QF's reshaping of their network, and the amount of lift they still have into SIN despite no onwards QF connections (excluding 3K).

The O&D off SQ285/286 was not that insubstantial either, on some days of the week. You could see 25%+ of the pax at the baggage carousel on some days, and that obviously excludes folks that were carry-on only.

Anecdotal, yes. But interesting to me - and I am happy to see NZ back on the SIN route, although it doesn't help me so much any longer.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6430 posts, RR: 38
Reply 73, posted (5 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11869 times:

http://www.voxy.co.nz/business/air-n...ws-cook-islands-agreement/5/185750

Was that predictable or was that predictable?



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinekeen2fly From New Zealand, joined Jul 2010, 61 posts, RR: 1
Reply 74, posted (5 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11831 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 73):
http://www.voxy.co.nz/business/air-n...ws-cook-islands-agreement/5/185750

Was that predictable or was that predictable?

Hmm, I think I'd go for predictable myself! The test now will be whether those scantly clad models will increase the numbers between RAR-LAX and RAR-SYD.


User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1702 posts, RR: 1
Reply 75, posted (5 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 11745 times:

in regards to the RAR services - good news, another 4 years will see the 763 replace with 772's or 787's which could drive the numbers up?!


''Air New Zealand supports Tourism 2025''

Air New Zealand welcomes today’s launch of the tourism industry’s new framework to significantly grow the contribution of tourism to New Zealand’s economy.

Tourism 2025 aims to align the New Zealand tourism industry and see industry stakeholders work together to capitalise on growth opportunities and increase tourism revenues to $41 billion by 2025.

Air New Zealand Chief Executive Officer Christopher Luxon says Tourism 2025 goes hand in hand with Air New Zealand’s Go Beyond strategy which is also focussed on growth and supercharging New Zealand’s success.

http://new-zealand.etbnews.com/19678...new-zealand-supports-tourism-2025/



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlinemr airnz From New Zealand, joined Feb 2002, 867 posts, RR: 1
Reply 76, posted (5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 11729 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 75):
in regards to the RAR services - good news, another 4 years will see the 763 replace with 772's or 787's which could drive the numbers up?!

Sooner than that. Three 767s go second half of 2015, last two go second half of 2016 so you're currently looking at a change of aircraft in no later than 2.5 years.


User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1702 posts, RR: 1
Reply 77, posted (5 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 11720 times:

It's interesting how Luxon can make the China market work and Fyfe couldn't!


''Air New Zealand romance campaign proves huge success in China''

Romance is alive and well in China as Air New Zealand launches “Love is a Journey,” the latest phase in its popular romance themed marketing campaign.

The airline unveiled the “Romance Class” campaign in China last year with an online safety video highlighting New Zealand as the ideal destination for a romantic getaway.

The safety video has been viewed online more than 890,000 times and the campaign, which ran in July and August, was hugely successful, far exceeding sales targets and winning the airline a legion of fans on Chinese microblogging site Sina Weibo.

The latest phase features a series of heart-warming videos of three couples including influential Chinese social media personalities Molly Wang and Solo Zhuang who starred in last year’s popular online safety video. The pair has a combined social media following of more than 1.6 million fans.

The three couples are individually interviewed about their “journey of love” and how travel has played a role in each of their relationships.

Air New Zealand Chief Sales and Commercial Officer Cam Wallace says the “Romance Class” campaign has proved a great success amongst China’s romance seeking set and this latest phase of the campaign seeks to further drive travel to New Zealand.

http://asia.etbnews.com/197165/air-n...ampaign-proves-huge-success-china/

All we need now is the 787 advertising on the NZ China Site and it will be happy faces all round..!



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlineAotearoa From New Zealand, joined May 2005, 144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 78, posted (5 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 11647 times:

Expect to see HNL and RAR services move from the 767 to the 787 as aircraft 4 and 5 arrive in 2015. The first three tails are fully occupied on PER, PVG and NRT from November 2014. With just over 300 seats on the 789, ASKs will definitely be in growth mode by way of the fleet changeover.

User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4986 posts, RR: 5
Reply 79, posted (5 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 11461 times:

Quoting Aotearoa (Reply 78):
The first three tails are fully occupied on PER, PVG and NRT fro

Is there any possibility of NZ getting access to HND ?


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4986 posts, RR: 5
Reply 80, posted (5 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 11297 times:

From NZ's February report...

Asia/Japan/UK: 43,000, -21.0%;

This suggests that the HKG/LHR/HKG sector carried 11430-passengers in Feb 2012. This suggests an average of ~ 198- passengers per flight or about a 65% load factor. I have often wondered what the figures were.


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7190 posts, RR: 13
Reply 81, posted (5 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 11172 times:

I have wondered about HND but I think ultimately they will stay at NRT for connecting options. If they do, I think we will see maybe these additional late night Tokyo services to HND to connect with the other Intl. options out of HND.

It has merit if they can gain good slots, but I think they have more pressing optionsto serve in the next 18 months.


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4986 posts, RR: 5
Reply 82, posted (5 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 10916 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 81):
but I think they have more pressing optionsto serve in the next 18 months.

Have these been all announced or do you believe there are one or two more to come.


User currently offlineAerohottie From Australia, joined Mar 2004, 802 posts, RR: 3
Reply 83, posted (5 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10869 times:

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 82):
Have these been all announced or do you believe there are one or two more to come.

For some reason I thought TPE in conjunction with EVA was on the way. Maybe this was the back-up plan to HKG and Cathay not going ahead...



What?
User currently onlinexiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 840 posts, RR: 0
Reply 84, posted (5 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 10769 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 77):
It's interesting how Luxon can make the China market work and Fyfe couldn't!

Well, when they launched 3 weekly PVG, Ed Sims at the time made it quite clear that their target had always been working towards daily until one day they decided to open PEK and leave PVG at 3 weekly. Luxon then shut PEK and moved PVG to daily. I think NZ had lost all the opportunities to turn PVG profitable a lot earlier.


User currently onlinexiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 840 posts, RR: 0
Reply 85, posted (5 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 10775 times:

http://www.ausbt.com.au/virgin-austr...ia-ceo-nixes-star-alliance-skyteam

"Trans-Tasman is in good shape and the alignment with Air New Zealand has been nothing short of superb" he admits, "but the best thing about that is there is still a lot more that we can do together, and you will see that happen over the next nine months or so."

VA CEO has revealed to Australian Business Traveller that we will see some enhancement to the Tasman alliance in the next 9 months. But unfortunately they are not interested in joining Star Alliance.


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7190 posts, RR: 13
Reply 86, posted (5 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 10699 times:

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 82):
Have these been all announced or do you believe there are one or two more to come.

I expect there to be more announcements.


User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1702 posts, RR: 1
Reply 87, posted (5 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 10658 times:

Is there any more updates on the 1st NZ 787-9 ? it's April next week, last picture I saw was the tail had been painted black that was it. Yesterday I saw a picture of ANA's first 787-9 and its in full colors. ! and it is outside in the sun already.


NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlineAotearoa From New Zealand, joined May 2005, 144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 88, posted (5 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 10452 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 87):

Expect to see this aircraft move to the paint hanger next week. No doubt Boeing and the Airline will make something of this near the end of next week. Personally, I can't wait to see this a/c in its new livery.


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4986 posts, RR: 5
Reply 89, posted (5 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 10369 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 87):
Is there any more updates on the 1st NZ 787-9

Delivery is due in July I believe . In any event I assume the FAA will need to have issued their approvals before delivery can take place.


User currently offlinekeen2fly From New Zealand, joined Jul 2010, 61 posts, RR: 1
Reply 90, posted (5 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 10321 times:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...d-Airport-to-get-combined-terminal

Yet another article outlining the big plans for Auckland Airport. Nice to have a plan, but of course no actual announcement of any commitments... I must say I don't think this will happen, rather a more diluted version that costs less to construct but will leave them wishing they did it properly later on.


User currently offlineZKEOJ From New Zealand, joined Feb 2005, 1024 posts, RR: 6
Reply 91, posted (5 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 10229 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 19):
So word is being said about JQ finally giving up on AKL-SIN from July..

Yup, I was booked on AKL-SIN-AKL in September, and got an email with changes. They got us on AKL-MEL (QF) - SIN (JQ) return. Interestingly, the outbound flight is a day earlier, and it was pretty much a take it or leave it offer, i.e. either take it, or get a refund. We have connections to MNL, so we took it   The surprising part was that 2 weeks after rebooking we got a $100 voucher each in the email - without any letter, explanation, nothng. Just "Here is your voucher". Oh well, a free AKL-WLG return trip is better than nada...

Quoting SelandiaBaru (Reply 37):
The condition of the aircraft interior left a lot to be desired, as did the professionalism of the cabin crew.

I recently flew MEL-AKL on the 787 and had 1A. In row 2 were two HQ employees, and 1B was empty. Almost the entire flight the FA was sitting on the armrest of 1B, talking (quite loudly) with her workmates in row 2. It really got quite irritating after a while. Check-in in MEL was chaos, and rather unfriendly, while I had great crews domestically in New Zealand. Will see what MEL-SIN-MEL brings....

Cheers
micha


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6430 posts, RR: 38
Reply 92, posted (5 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 10196 times:

Quoting keen2fly (Reply 90):

Good to see something.. Though it is a decade late.. I remember being inspired by that awesome model of the airport they have/had at the airport (the last place I saw it was above McDonalds) back in the late 90s.. I swear that it was the plan to have the whole airport revamped by 2020/2025 or something. Oh well.. As long as they start soon...

I don't see any room for an observation deck though. That'd be a big disappointment.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineAndrensn From New Zealand, joined Jun 2012, 77 posts, RR: 0
Reply 93, posted (5 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 10181 times:

Quoting keen2fly (Reply 90):

It's interesting that they have made their own website for their plans.
http://airportofthefuture.co.nz
From reading through it appears that they have decided to move the domestic area to the southern end of the terminal, closer to where it is now.
With a short northern runway won't this mean that only a320 sized international aircraft will use the runway until it's extended?


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4832 posts, RR: 9
Reply 94, posted (5 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 10164 times:

Quoting keen2fly (Reply 90):

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...d-Airport-to-get-combined-terminal

Yet another article outlining the big plans for Auckland Airport. Nice to have a plan, but of course no actual announcement of any commitments... I must say I don't think this will happen, rather a more diluted version that costs less to construct but will leave them wishing they did it properly later on.


I saw them say that domestic will move within 5 years and that the rest will be done I think by 2030.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlinekeen2fly From New Zealand, joined Jul 2010, 61 posts, RR: 1
Reply 95, posted (5 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 10145 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 92):
I don't see any room for an observation deck though. That'd be a big disappointment.

Agreed! I really hope that the NZ International Koru Lounge will eventually be replaced with one that has a view, I recently moved to Wellington, flew back to Auckland last night and was impressed with the Wellington Airport facilities. Was able to write some university assignments while watching the aircraft movements.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 94):
I saw them say that domestic will move within 5 years and that the rest will be done I think by 2030.

I hope that is the case, coming into Auckland last night I was surprised how small and cramped it felt, I usually fly internationally so I'm not well acquainted with the domestic facilities at Auckland. Though over the next 5 years I suspect I will get to know the WLG and AKL facilities well.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6430 posts, RR: 38
Reply 96, posted (5 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 10146 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 94):

I saw them say that domestic will move within 5 years and that the rest will be done I think by 2030.

2 things which need doing immediately - the new domestic terminal and the extension of Pier B to include 4 A380 gates along one side.. Then move onto the back side after that.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2714 posts, RR: 4
Reply 97, posted (5 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9926 times:

It seems bizarre that the domestic facilities will be on the south side of the new terminal, furthest from the new runway which is domestic-oriented. Good to see they might have a single, coherent design for the structure though, rather than the hodge podge mess they have now.

User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4832 posts, RR: 9
Reply 98, posted (5 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 9859 times:

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 97):

It seems bizarre that the domestic facilities will be on the south side of the new terminal, furthest from the new runway which is domestic-oriented. Good to see they might have a single, coherent design for the structure though, rather than the hodge podge mess they have now.


Yes it is bizarre however it does make some sense. That area between the current domestic and Intl is pretty much wasted. The 2nd runway won't be ready until after the new terminal is built. Also 95% (guesstimate) of domestic flights are to the South (which is why the 2nd runway should actually be built to full E cat standard eventually and be used for wide bodies.
The best thing about this proposal is that they are providing land for 2 train lines (1 to Onehunga and on to the city, 1 to Manukau). Not only will these provide better options for the airport itself, but they will provide benefits to the whole rail network.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7190 posts, RR: 13
Reply 99, posted (5 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9794 times:

As with anything to do with AIAL, believe it when you see it. This is after all just a mild rehash of the same plan they had in 1987!! The twin runway was originally supposed to be 2012 so go figure...

User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12167 posts, RR: 17
Reply 100, posted (5 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 9781 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Does anyone know why an NZ 763 was parked at WLGs international terminal on March 20th at 6.45am? I was departing on VA65, noticed an NZ winglet on push back and during take off noticed it was a 763.

Had a nice flight on ZK-SUH (BNE-AKL) today. While boarding at BNE I was allowed to visit the flight deck. Apparantly -SUH has been purchased by the aircraft's engines maker, with the engines only being saved, while the other 744 will leave for Alice Springs to be broken up. This info came from the pilots. Several crew on the flight said they will certainly miss the 744 fleet as its their favourite to work on - way better then the 777s. The 744 just has its unique feeling to it. The flight left around 40mins late due to issues with loading a container. You could hear (I was on the top deck) the ground crew trying to get the container on board as there was a fair bit of banging going on. The ground crew apparently gave up and removed the container for another flight


User currently offlinenascarnut From New Zealand, joined Oct 2008, 287 posts, RR: 2
Reply 101, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 9703 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 100):
Does anyone know why an NZ 763 was parked at WLGs international terminal on March 20th at 6.45am? I was departing on VA65, noticed an NZ winglet on push back and during take off noticed it was a 763.

It was a PER-CHC flight that diverted in WLG for fuel due to CHC fog


User currently offlinezkncj From New Zealand, joined Nov 2005, 540 posts, RR: 0
Reply 102, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9694 times:

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 97):
It seems bizarre that the domestic facilities will be on the south side of the new terminal, furthest from the new runway which is domestic-oriented. Good to see they might have a single, coherent design for the structure though, rather than the hodge podge mess they have now.

If you read though the pdf that AIAL put it explaining it all, it mentions the reason being in as the domesitc flights will keep using the southern runway, helps reduce flight time etc. While the new Northern Runway will be upgraded so it can take 787/777s.


User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5332 posts, RR: 11
Reply 103, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9533 times:

So if the Domestic terminal is going on the Southern side does that mean the existing pier A of International? While maybe Pier B will be expanded for International?

Quoting 777ER (Reply 100):
Had a nice flight on ZK-SUH (BNE-AKL) today. While boarding at BNE I was allowed to visit the flight deck. Apparantly -SUH has been purchased by the aircraft's engines maker, with the engines only being saved, while the other 744 will leave for Alice Springs to be broken up

I'd have thought it was SUH to be broken up as you say with NBV picked up by some airline somewhere, it's only 15 years old while SUH is 23.


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4832 posts, RR: 9
Reply 104, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 9426 times:

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 103):
So if the Domestic terminal is going on the Southern side does that mean the existing pier A of International? While maybe Pier B will be expanded for International?

No a new pier will be built at the Eastern end of the Intl terminal (about where the EK check in counters are currently). The plan shows the current main pier being extended in a Y shape to the West parallel with the A380 pier.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6430 posts, RR: 38
Reply 105, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 9371 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 100):
Had a nice flight on ZK-SUH (BNE-AKL) today

Guess I caught your landing then Jase

Air New Zealand Boeing 747-400



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineNZ1 From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 2266 posts, RR: 25
Reply 106, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 9238 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

OKC will arrive back in AKL ex maintenance at Xiamen early next Sunday morning around 3am (6th Apr). Normally not such a big deal, except this B772 is the first widebody to be repainted into the new fern livery - carried out whilst in China. Might be an opportunity to take some snaps during the day as the aircraft isn't scheduled to fly until Monday.

NZ1


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6430 posts, RR: 38
Reply 107, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 9166 times:

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 106):
OKC will arrive back in AKL ex maintenance at Xiamen early next Sunday morning around 3am

3am!! Who comes up with these times!?  
Yeah, hopefully they put it in a decent position down at the jet base..

Cheers



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently onlinexiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 840 posts, RR: 0
Reply 108, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 9120 times:

http://www.3news.co.nz/Direct-flight...1607/articleID/336784/Default.aspx

No one has picked up on this it seems. John Key has met with China Eastern about Christchurch to Shanghai direct flights. Can't really see that happen but obviously China Eastern is considering New Zealand. Perhaps AKL is on the cards?


User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1702 posts, RR: 1
Reply 109, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9073 times:

Well maybe AKL was to expensive - ? Seems CHC want both CZ and China Eastern now WOW! lets hope something comes soon.


NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6430 posts, RR: 38
Reply 110, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8960 times:

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 108):

Can an A332 make it direct from PVG?



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7107 posts, RR: 11
Reply 111, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8923 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 105):

Yea saw her coming in too as we were taxiing out, good to see both birds at the terminal together.


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4986 posts, RR: 5
Reply 112, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 8835 times:

[quote=NZ107,reply=110]Can an A332 make it direct from PVG?

Probably. The MTOW version would make it easier for some than for others.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12167 posts, RR: 17
Reply 113, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 8620 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 103):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 100):Had a nice flight on ZK-SUH (BNE-AKL) today. While boarding at BNE I was allowed to visit the flight deck. Apparantly -SUH has been purchased by the aircraft's engines maker, with the engines only being saved, while the other 744 will leave for Alice Springs to be broken up
I'd have thought it was SUH to be broken up as you say with NBV picked up by some airline somewhere, it's only 15 years old while SUH is 23.

According to the pilots both airframes will be at their max before needing another heavy service.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 105):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 100):Had a nice flight on ZK-SUH (BNE-AKL) today
Guess I caught your landing then Jase

Sweet! I saw a person standing at the observation point just before the runway with a long range type camera. I was filming the landing. Where abouts were you standing Nick? Noticed an HA 763 tail hanging out the ANZES hanger

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 111):
Yea saw her coming in too as we were taxiing out, good to see both birds at the terminal together.

Where you flying JQ? Anyone know where -NBV was operating to? -SUH was heading to SFO that night. One of the end gates where the LAX/SFO/YVR flights depart from is a dual bridge gate for the A380


User currently onlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 882 posts, RR: 0
Reply 114, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 8552 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 113):
Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 111):
Yea saw her coming in too as we were taxiing out, good to see both birds at the terminal together.

Where you flying JQ?

ZKSUJ was probably in the front seat of a Q300.

PA515


User currently offlinecoolian2 From New Zealand, joined Oct 2006, 110 posts, RR: 0
Reply 115, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 8556 times:

Speaking of the AKL expansion, is that magnificent (albeit a tad poxy) display of the airport's plans still on display behind the escalators in the international terminal?

User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5332 posts, RR: 11
Reply 116, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 8550 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 113):

Where you flying JQ? Anyone know where -NBV was operating to? -SUH was heading to SFO that night.

Looking at FR24 NBV did SFO 29/3 and subsequently delayed NZ7 until 2315 ETA AKL 31/3. SUH did SFO 30/3.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 113):
According to the pilots both airframes will be at their max before needing another heavy service.

I'm no expert but NBV certainly won't be at 15.5 years old, even SUH at 23.5 years could fly some more, but i'm not sure anyone will want a 744 that age, even NBV I guess could get scrapped if no one wanted it.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12167 posts, RR: 17
Reply 117, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 8497 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 116):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 113):According to the pilots both airframes will be at their max before needing another heavy service.I'm no expert but NBV certainly won't be at 15.5 years old, even SUH at 23.5 years could fly some more, but i'm not sure anyone will want a 744 that age, even NBV I guess could get scrapped if no one wanted it.

-SUH has apparently been purchased by the engine makers with only the engines being saved and will leave the fleet last. I can't find the list supplied by NZ1 with the retirement schedule so hopefully he can confirm when its leaving. Must have been a very excellent purchase price to justify flying the frame to the new owners local airport and scrap the frame but keep the engines. IIRC it was ATL its heading to


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6430 posts, RR: 38
Reply 118, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 8457 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 113):
Sweet! I saw a person standing at the observation point just before the runway with a long range type camera. I was filming the landing. Where abouts were you standing Nick? Noticed an HA 763 tail hanging out the ANZES hanger

I was on the bridge. Yeah there was a HA 763 at the jet base but the light wasn't great around your arrival so I didn't bother shooting it.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6430 posts, RR: 38
Reply 119, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 8447 times:

Rollout of ZK-NZC(?)

http://paineairport.com/images/kpae10260.png

http://kpae.blogspot.co.nz/2014/03/paine-field-march-30.html

[Edited 2014-03-31 03:43:08]

[Edited 2014-03-31 03:43:35]


It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1222 posts, RR: 1
Reply 120, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 8430 times:

Quoting SelandiaBaru (Reply 68):
NZ acknowledged that by suggesting the 772 would go on it when it arrived but decided against it when the time came, favouring China directly.

The 777-200ERs did operate the route for a while. I flew a couple of legs between SIN and AKL in them during 2006. Pity they cancelled it. I'm very glad they'll be returning.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Je89 W.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 119):

I assume that is it getting put into the paint hangar. Matt Cawby tweeted about that only a few hours ago. From memory, I think NZ's first 787 will be painted black.
https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/450515322299109376



Air New Zealand; first to fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6430 posts, RR: 38
Reply 121, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 8392 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 120):

I assume that is it getting put into the paint hangar. Matt Cawby tweeted about that only a few hours ago. From memory, I think NZ's first 787 will be painted black.

Sure is.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7401 posts, RR: 5
Reply 122, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 8416 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 94):
I saw them say that domestic will move within 5 years and that the rest will be done I think by 2030.

the plan is to start now, phase 1 will be completed by 2019, then additional capacity will be added as passanger numbers grow.

I'll be super impressed if it ever ends up looking like this.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t31.0-8/10011766_672381476154965_1467901828_o.jpg


User currently offlineUnclekoru From New Zealand, joined Oct 2009, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 123, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8215 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 120):
Quoting SelandiaBaru (Reply 68):
NZ acknowledged that by suggesting the 772 would go on it when it arrived but decided against it when the time came, favouring China directly.

The 777-200ERs did operate the route for a while. I flew a couple of legs between SIN and AKL in them during 2006. Pity they cancelled it. I'm very glad they'll be returning.


View Large View Medium

Photo © Je89 W.

If memory serves me correctly, it was announced that the SIN route would cease a couple of months after the 772 was introduced to the route.



It sounds like english, but I can't understand a word you're saying
User currently offlineMotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3205 posts, RR: 9
Reply 124, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8133 times:

A little bit of Aviation History, it was on this day, 1 April, in 1965 that TEAL became Air New Zealand.

On the Auckland International Airport of the Future plan, it's good that they're intending on becoming a hub between Asia and South America. And currently the second biggest international airport in Oceania - did not know that.



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25260 posts, RR: 85
Reply 125, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8116 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Motorhussy (Reply 124):
On the Auckland International Airport of the Future plan, it's good that they're intending on becoming a hub between Asia and South America

I guess they need a few more flights to South America before that can happen, and a few more destinations there.

I assume Air NZ will eventually bite the bullet, and I'll be very interested to see what they come up with.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6430 posts, RR: 38
Reply 126, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8118 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 125):
I guess they need a few more flights to South America before that can happen, and a few more destinations there.

I assume Air NZ will eventually bite the bullet, and I'll be very interested to see what they come up with.

Well OW have a monopoly on Australasia to Latin America starting tomorrow as today marks the last AR A342 flight to SYD.. I hope someone can start a route to challenge them.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2714 posts, RR: 4
Reply 127, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8032 times:

Quoting Motorhussy (Reply 124):
On the Auckland International Airport of the Future plan, it's good that they're intending on becoming a hub between Asia and South America. And currently the second biggest international airport in Oceania - did not know that.

How do they measure that? They claim "second busiest" so I assume that means aircraft movements. It's about even on international pax with Melbourne, which is growing like crazy. But overall, it's total pax numbers are less than half. So it's a funny measure that across all metrics is likely to be usurped in the next few years. And given AIAL's limp long-terminess and history of non-delivery, you gotta wonder.


User currently onlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 882 posts, RR: 0
Reply 128, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7966 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 119):
Rollout of ZK-NZC(?)

That's ZK-NZE. NZF and NZG follow in Sep and Oct 2014 with NZC and NZD in Sep and Oct 2015. Boeing shouldn't need over a year to prepare NZC and NZD for pax use, so maybe Air NZ doesn't want them earlier.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 126):
Well OW have a monopoly on Australasia to Latin America starting tomorrow as today marks the last AR A342 flight to SYD.. I hope someone can start a route to challenge them.

Indeed. Know someone going to the Soccer World Cup via LAX on NZ/UA "because it was cheaper".Money to be made if suitable connections can be organised.

PA515


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6430 posts, RR: 38
Reply 129, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7927 times:

Quoting PA515 (Reply 128):
That's ZK-NZE. NZF and NZG follow in Sep and Oct 2014 with NZC and NZD in Sep and Oct 2015. Boeing shouldn't need over a year to prepare NZC and NZD for pax use, so maybe Air NZ doesn't want them earlier.

Right, thanks for the reminder.. I forgot that NZA and NZB weren't to be used for the 789s.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinekeen2fly From New Zealand, joined Jul 2010, 61 posts, RR: 1
Reply 130, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7807 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 119):
Rollout of ZK-NZC(?)

Must say that photo makes me very glad indeed that they changed the livery from an all white fuselage. Though the new livery looks very rushed on close inspection, it is starting to grow on me a little.


User currently onlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 882 posts, RR: 0
Reply 131, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7701 times:

Quoting PA515 (Reply 128):
NZC and NZD in Sep and Oct 2015.

mrcaviation 4th January 2014 had delivery of NZC Jul 2015 and NZD Aug 2015, while I had Sep 2015 and Oct 2015 from another source. Does anyone know which is correct. Thanks.

PA515


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6430 posts, RR: 38
Reply 132, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7680 times:

Quoting PA515 (Reply 131):

mrcaviation 4th January 2014 had delivery of NZC Jul 2015 and NZD Aug 2015, while I had Sep 2015 and Oct 2015 from another source. Does anyone know which is correct

July is what Luxon said.. Though that was back in January so who know if that wing crack issue has changed anything. I wouldn't expect it to have though.. But I'm sure you're aware that there's a heck of a lot of time for proving flights between the supposed July delivery and the start of the PER route.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineAotearoa From New Zealand, joined May 2005, 144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 133, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7669 times:

Hi all.

Clearly there is a substantial period between arrival in NZ of ZK-NZE in July and the first Perth flight in October. Expect to see this aircraft on AKL SYD AKL flights on a daily basis durung this period. The airline needs to begin operations with this new aircraft in a conservative manner. They also need the sectors for training.

I know this will make it difficult if any of you intended to try and achieve the first revenue flight as a passanger. Hopefully we can give some indication closer to the time, so those so inclined can look to book a seat in time to make this flight.

Any proving flying is unlikely to have passangers aboard, so if this does occur, it won't count as a first revenue flight.


User currently onlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 882 posts, RR: 0
Reply 134, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7674 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 132):
July is what Luxon said.. Though that was back in January so who know if that wing crack issue has changed anything. I wouldn't expect it to have though.. But I'm sure you're aware that there's a heck of a lot of time for proving flights between the supposed July delivery and the start of the PER route.

July 2014 is for the first 789 delivery ZK-NZE, but for NZC and NZD I have two different delivery times in 2015.

On 4th Jan 2014 mrcaviation said NZC and NZD were due in Jul and Aug 2015, but on 6th Jan 2014 ausbt said the 4th and 5th 789's (NZC and NZD) were due in Sep and Oct 2015.

PA515


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6430 posts, RR: 38
Reply 135, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7662 times:

Quoting Aotearoa (Reply 133):
Any proving flying is unlikely to have passangers aboard, so if this does occur, it won't count as a first revenue flight.

I'd find that odd.. The proving flights on the 77W were done with passengers straight away and I wouldn't expect it to be any different. But I'm keen to get on that first passenger flight..

Quoting PA515 (Reply 134):

Oh right, sorry.. Guess we'll wait and see. Anything could happen between now and then. Easy for someone to make a mistake on the month.. AusBT got the word straight out of either Luxon's or Dave Morgan's mouth..



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12167 posts, RR: 17
Reply 136, posted (5 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7352 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 135):
But I'm keen to get on that first passenger flight..

I'm 100% certain that your not the only one! I'm really keen on a SYD flight or even a PER sector.


Booked today what will be my final NZ B744 flight today, AKL-SFO on June 27th. Will certainly be a strange flight knowing that NZ's Queen of the Skies will be departing our shores shortly afterwards. Would certainly have loved seat 1A/K but I'll settle for Y+ again on the top deck

Does anyone know what the leg room is like in seat 24A compared to 23A on the 77Ws?


User currently offlineNZ1 From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 2266 posts, RR: 25
Reply 137, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 7221 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting PA515 (Reply 134):
On 4th Jan 2014 mrcaviation said NZC and NZD were due in Jul and Aug 2015, but on 6th Jan 2014 ausbt said the 4th and 5th 789's (NZC and NZD) were due in Sep and Oct 2015.

Jul & Aug are the correct dates for NZC and NZD.

Quoting Aotearoa (Reply 133):
Any proving flying is unlikely to have passangers aboard, so if this does occur, it won't count as a first revenue flight.

Not sure where you got this from but it is untrue. Aircraft will be utilised on Tasman services for crew training purposes before launching to Perth as already announced.

NZ1


User currently offlineAotearoa From New Zealand, joined May 2005, 144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 138, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 7197 times:

I guess it comes down to your interpretation of proving flying. The context I'm using the term proving is in relation to 'proving' to the Civil Aviation Authority that the airline can begin revenue passenger operations. The difference between the B777 introduction and the B787-9 intro is that the -9 is a first of type.

I imagine that this proving flying could be a relatively low number of flights, provided the airline can demonstrate that it and the aircraft are 'ready '.

Until you have a Part 121 approval to operate the aircraft, you can't charge passengers a fare to travel. End of story.


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4986 posts, RR: 5
Reply 139, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7060 times:

Quoting Aotearoa (Reply 138):
The difference between the B777 introduction and the B787-9 intro is that the -9 is a first of type.

I assume you are referring specifically to the 777-300ER in this context and that the 777-200ER would have been first of type for NZ and that would have had to have been proved. Or have I missed something.


User currently onlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 882 posts, RR: 0
Reply 140, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6686 times:

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 137):
Jul & Aug are the correct dates for NZC and NZD.

Thanks.

PA515


User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1761 posts, RR: 2
Reply 141, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6703 times:

http://www.cookislandsnews.com/2014/March/Wed26/local.htm#1403260103

Not too sure how accurate this report it. This suggests that the RAR-LAX route will be operated by a 330 seat 777, rather than the 787.


User currently offlineSXI899 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2008, 269 posts, RR: 0
Reply 142, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6665 times:

Quoting Aotearoa (Reply 138):
I guess it comes down to your interpretation of proving flying. The context I'm using the term proving is in relation to 'proving' to the Civil Aviation Authority that the airline can begin revenue passenger operations. The difference between the B777 introduction and the B787-9 intro is that the -9 is a first of type.

I imagine that this proving flying could be a relatively low number of flights, provided the airline can demonstrate that it and the aircraft are 'ready '.

Until you have a Part 121 approval to operate the aircraft, you can't charge passengers a fare to travel. End of story.

Odds are that there won't be any requirement for such flights from the NZCAA. According to Part 121.57(a):

Each holder of an air operator certificate that intends to introduce a
new aeroplane type shall, prior to that aeroplane type being used in air
operations, ensure that a programme of proving flights is conducted, in
addition to the aeroplane certification tests, when proving flights acceptable
to the Director have not been previously conducted in accordance with the
requirements of the State of certification.

I expect that the proving flights that Boeing have conducted/will conduct with the -8/-9 will be acceptable to the Director, allowing NZ to begin pax ops immediately.

That said, you never know with aviation authorities (speaking from experience!!)  



Any Type, Any Time, Anywhere
User currently onlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 882 posts, RR: 0
Reply 143, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6642 times:

Quoting cchan (Reply 141):

A 33% increase on the 230 seat 763 is 306 seats. The upgraded 77E will have 312 seats, and the 789 will have 302 seats. Wouldn't be a 332 seat 77W as they are fully occupied.

The 77E makes sense especially as the Cook Islands Goverment is subsidising the route, so Air NZ can keep the more efficient 789 for non subsidised routes.

Also, KarelXWB posted a link on the '787 Production/Deliveries Thread' of today's NZ Herald item about the 789 simulator. In the accompanying video, Capt Dave Morgan says AKL-PER starts in September, not October.

PA515


User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1761 posts, RR: 2
Reply 144, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6584 times:

Quoting PA515 (Reply 143):
A 33% increase on the 230 seat 763 is 306 seats. The upgraded 77E will have 312 seats, and the 789 will have 302 seats. Wouldn't be a 332 seat 77W as they are fully occupied.

This is the part I am confused about the article. The numbers don't add up to 33%.

Quoting PA515 (Reply 143):
The 77E makes sense especially as the Cook Islands Goverment is subsidising the route, so Air NZ can keep the more efficient 789 for non subsidised routes.

If my understanding is correct, the 77E will have more seats in the premium classes compared to the 789. Not sure how they are going to fill those premium seats, but I guess if the Cook Islands Government is paying, NZ doesn't care.


User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 145, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6588 times:

Quoting cchan (Reply 141):
Not too sure how accurate this report it. This suggests that the RAR-LAX route will be operated by a 330 seat 777, rather than the 787.

Doesn't surprise me. It must be very inefficient with crew to have only a single weekly 763 flight to the USA. However, with a 777 there's the possibility of rotating crew in service on flights nonstop back from LAX to AKL.



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7190 posts, RR: 13
Reply 146, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6560 times:

As I have said before. The 787 in general is for making existing seasonally marginal routes make money freeing the 77E forthe new routes and increased frequencies. RAR-LAX is a low frequency operation that will be able to fit in one weekly 77e schedule along with the increased LAX/SFO frequencies and some of the new routings when they start.

AKL-SIN-AKL-RAR-LAX-AKL-XXX-AKL for example might be a weekly rotation.


User currently offlineAotearoa From New Zealand, joined May 2005, 144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 147, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6493 times:

Dave might just have got this one wrong......PER definitely starts in October.

User currently offlineMotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3205 posts, RR: 9
Reply 148, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 6320 times:

Quoting cchan (Reply 144):
but I guess if the Cook Islands Government is paying, NZ doesn't care.

However the Cook Is Govt presumably has some input into what craft best suits the island group's purposes and maximises the return on its investment. The 789 is a better craft for them and, once enough of them are in the fleet, perhaps the Govt of Samoa may again underwrite a weekly connex.

AKL-PVG-AKL-RAR-LAX-APW-AKL-PER-AKL for example as a weekly rotation.



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4986 posts, RR: 5
Reply 149, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 6303 times:

Quoting Motorhussy (Reply 148):
AKL-PVG-AKL-RAR-LAX-APW-AKL-PER-AKL for example as a weekly rotation.

Is this a rotation for a specific aircraft or is it a rotation that will use one aircraft ?


User currently offlinezkncj From New Zealand, joined Nov 2005, 540 posts, RR: 0
Reply 150, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 6287 times:

Quoting Motorhussy (Reply 148):
However the Cook Is Govt presumably has some input into what craft best suits the island group's purposes and maximises the return on its investment. The 789 is a better craft for them and, once enough of them are in the fleet, perhaps the Govt of Samoa may again underwrite a weekly connex.


The 789 are going to take a couple of years worth of service to build up an useful, long distance over water rating. Where as the 772/77W already have proven them self within the NZ fleet, and already have high ratings.

With an 789, it would likely have to follow an island hop, route to LAX to keep within say minuteness of the nearest airport. Where as the 777s are fly direct, saving fuel etc which could make them cheaper to run.


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4986 posts, RR: 5
Reply 151, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6271 times:

Quoting zkncj (Reply 150):
With an 789, it would likely have to follow an island hop, route to LAX to keep within say minuteness of the nearest airport. Where as the 777s are fly direct, saving fuel etc which could make them cheaper to run.

You can't be serious ! What island hopping are you suggesting for AKL-NRT as an example. I flew a BA 788 at Christmas from YYZ-LHR. It took exactly the same trans Atlantic airway as the BA 77E that departed YYZ about 4-hours earlier. If I am not mistaken the 787 has 180-min EDTO out of the gate.


User currently offlinezkncj From New Zealand, joined Nov 2005, 540 posts, RR: 0
Reply 152, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6357 times:

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 151):

You can't be serious ! What island hopping are you suggesting for AKL-NRT as an example. I flew a BA 788 at Christmas from LHR. It took exactly the same trans Atlantic airway as the BA 77E that departed AKL-NRT-AKL is usually routed across the Tasman, then up along the Eastern Coast of Australia. Which has plenty of diversion points along the way. Where as AKL-RAR-LAX is almost over ocean for the whole trip.

Check out Part 121 from the NZCAA http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publicat.../pdfs/ris-transport-edto-mar12.pdf

[Edited 2014-04-03 20:51:15]

User currently offlinemr airnz From New Zealand, joined Feb 2002, 867 posts, RR: 1
Reply 153, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6310 times:

Quoting zkncj (Reply 152):
Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 151):
You can't be serious ! What island hopping are you suggesting for AKL-NRT as an example. I flew a BA 788 at Christmas from LHR. It took exactly the same trans Atlantic airway as the BA 77E that departed AKL-NRT-AKL is usually routed across the Tasman, then up along the Eastern Coast of Australia. Which has plenty of diversion points along the way. Where as AKL-RAR-LAX is almost over ocean for the whole trip.

Check out Part 121 from the NZCAA http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publicat...is-transport-edto-mar12.pdf[Edited 2014-04-03 20:51:15]

I'm not even going to read the document you've linked to because it is superfluous. As sunrisevalley points out, the 787-9 comes with EDTO 180 straight out of the box. This is the same operating criteria the 772s are currently operated under. The 77Ws only are currently operating to EDTO 240 when desired.


User currently offlineHLZCPH From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 146 posts, RR: 0
Reply 154, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6312 times:

A few threads back there was a mention about the museum guy at Wanaka wanting a 737 for display. It's too far away but .... In the thread "Status of the NW and DL DC-9s in MZJ" is a link to some pictures

http://www.moose135photography.com/A...rplanes/Laurinburg-Maxton-Aircraft

The 732 in the pics is ex ZK-NAD ln66 from what I can tell, with its ex operators scheme visible, and some help from another site. And I thought they were all gone!

Quoting 777ER (Reply 136):
Booked today what will be my final NZ B744 flight today, AKL-SFO on June 27th. Will certainly be a strange flight knowing that NZ's Queen of the Skies will be departing our shores shortly afterwards. Would certainly have loved seat 1A/K but I'll settle for Y+ again on the top deck

Us too, but we go on the 3rd July.



July, AKL-SFO-LAS-SFO-AKL. last ride in the NZ 744?
User currently offlineMotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3205 posts, RR: 9
Reply 155, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6291 times:

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 149):
Is this a rotation for a specific aircraft or is it a rotation that will use one aircraft ?

It is how one aircraft can be used over a week. This would mean it doesn't have to fly back to either through RAR or APW straight after it's just come from there as is currently the case with the 763 and the Cooks; thus allowing a more attractive period of stay to visitors from North America.



come visit the south pacific
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12167 posts, RR: 17
Reply 156, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6275 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting HLZCPH (Reply 154):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 136):Booked today what will be my final NZ B744 flight today, AKL-SFO on June 27th. Will certainly be a strange flight knowing that NZ's Queen of the Skies will be departing our shores shortly afterwards. Would certainly have loved seat 1A/K but I'll settle for Y+ again on the top deckUs too, but we go on the 3rd July.

Hope you get some excellent photos! If I didn't get Friday 27th off work then I would have gone later. The thought of another 777 ride when the last chance for a 744 flight was simply too much to handle! The things you do to get on the right aircraft huh! Was looking at some flight schedule in Canada and some routes I'm interested in, I can get on the Dash-8-100, B736 and B73G.

Quoting HLZCPH (Reply 154):
A few threads back there was a mention about the museum guy at Wanaka wanting a 737 for display. It's too far away but .... In the thread "Status of the NW and DL DC-9s in MZJ" is a link to some pictureshttp://www.moose135photography.com/A...rplanes/Laurinburg-Maxton-AircraftThe 732 in the pics is ex ZK-NAD ln66 from what I can tell, with its ex operators scheme visible, and some help from another site. And I thought they were all gone!

Excellent find! I thought they were all gone/couldn't be found also


User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1761 posts, RR: 2
Reply 157, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6074 times:

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 145):
Doesn't surprise me. It must be very inefficient with crew to have only a single weekly 763 flight to the USA.

Any idea what is the 763 crew arrangements at present? Does the crew come back to AKL as pax or do they work on other flights from LAX?


User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1222 posts, RR: 1
Reply 158, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5996 times:

Quoting Aotearoa (Reply 133):
Hopefully we can give some indication closer to the time, so those so inclined can look to book a seat in time to make this flight.

Thankyou.  
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 135):
But I'm keen to get on that first passenger flight..

Ditto.

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 137):
Aircraft will be utilised on Tasman services for crew training purposes before launching to Perth as already announced.

So are TransTasman flights going to have random equipment substitutes to the 787-9, or is there going to be some kind of schedule in place? Do we know how much certainty there will be?

As much as I like A320s and day trips across the Tasman, I'd be a bit frustrated if I booked - trying to get the 787-9 - and an A320 turned up to the gate.

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 137):
Jul & Aug are the correct dates for NZC and NZD.

I wonder if ZK-NZC will be seen at Farnborough before delivery.   



Air New Zealand; first to fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7190 posts, RR: 13
Reply 159, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5749 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 158):
So are TransTasman flights going to have random equipment substitutes to the 787-9, or is there going to be some kind of schedule in place? Do we know how much certainty there will be?

I know which flights, but don't know if it will be interchangeable based on load or not and I don't know if it will be a daily schedule.. I think you are fairly safe because they will want to build up hours quick.