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CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 4)  
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Posted (7 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 66141 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

As part 3 became quite long and in some instances slow to load for some users, part 4 is now available for discussion.

Part 3 is available here:

CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 3) (by SA7700 Jan 23 2014 in Civil Aviation)


Thanks and regards,

SA7700


When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
201 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineQuantos From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 65295 times:

Flight test update from Rob Dewar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vynMPP6pD-Y

User currently offlinegolfradio From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 793 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (7 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 65224 times:

Quoting Quantos (Reply 1):

I have got to say, visually the airplane is beautiful. The nose really looks like that of a biz jet than an airliner.
As expected the public updates are a little skinny on details and nothing new for any one that follows the program. I am just waiting to hear if FTV3 is getting the full FBW version now or not.


User currently offlineSSTeve From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 722 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 64511 times:

Interesting update here:
http://airinsight.com/2014/03/21/bom...er-investor-day-aerospace-summary/

Quote:
During the Q&A session, Guy clarified that the fly-by-wire system has indeed been operating on the aircraft, and that direct mode is used for flight testing because the “normal” mode, which prohibits certain actions by pilots, would, for example not permit the stall and unusual attitude tests that are currently being completed. He emphasized that normal mode is installed and running on CIASTA, the iron-bird test machine, and will be fully installed on the test fleet soon to enable testing of the normal mode, once the other required tests are completed. With direct mode, the test pilot is in full control of the aircraft, without the normal mode restrictions in place.

Some great slides, too.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16885 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (7 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 64508 times:

Quoting golfradio (Reply 2):
I have got to say, visually the airplane is beautiful

I agree, the C Series and A350 are sharp looking aircraft. Hoping UA will order the C-series to replace their former 735s and 733s.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineSPQR From Canada, joined Jun 2011, 103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 63621 times:

http://www.fliegerfaust.com/cseries-...tter-higher-speeds--479085418.html

FTV1 getting sensors installed for high speed flutter testing.


User currently offlinemastermis From Cayman Islands, joined Apr 2008, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 62617 times:

Looks like the Porter order may in jeopardy, although I don't think anyone ever thought this was definite win for Bombardier.

http://www.thestar.com/news/city_hal..._and_island_airport_expansion.html

[Edited 2014-03-26 08:18:32]

User currently offlineYYZYYT From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 971 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 62387 times:

Quoting mastermis (Reply 6):
Looks like the Porter order may in jeopardy, although I don't think anyone ever thought this was definite win for Bombardier.


I confess that I wince when I hear the media describe the expansion idea as something backed by Mayor Ford (he is not the only one - but opponents go out of their way to associate the idea with Ford's name, as proof that this is a bad idea).

As for the actual vote yesterday... this has always been very political, and there is a municipal election coming. So enter Ford who (with his typical subtlety) tries to ram a vote through before it is ready, so that he can make "campaign style speech" (to quote the article) proving that he is against "red tape".

And we can expect more rhetoric on this issue in the coming weeks and months. Two days ago, the local radio coverage had a councilor on who was explaining why the expansion was already dead, no chance, destined to fail, widespread opposition, council was going to kill it, etc...

What happened yesterday is a cautious step forward. The City is proceeding with the necessary studies (including environmental review, traffic study etc), which are real concerns that need to be dealt with. Note that the article also quotes one of the real proponents of the expansion (the deputy Mayor) who opposed Ford's motion. He knows fully well that the proposal has no chance of passing council until the work has been done.

And in many ways it is best if the decision is delayed until after the rhetoric of the upcoming election passes.


User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6250 posts, RR: 34
Reply 8, posted (7 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 62287 times:

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 7):
And in many ways it is best if the decision is delayed until after the rhetoric of the upcoming election passes.

Just to state the obvious, the delay does throw a further wrench into Porter's attempted efforts to go public and allow the initial investors to cash out.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineQuantos From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 62073 times:

I just saw FTV1 fly low over my house; first time I've actually seen it for real! I must say, I saw it more than I heard it. This thing is crazy silent.

Also, there was a NOTAM no-fly zone over YMX today. FTV2 flew three times (including a ~1h30 flight and two under ten minutes short hops), while FTV1 flew once.


User currently offlinerikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1661 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (7 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 61952 times:

WIsh I was there with you Quantos! How is the noise level compared to a typical turboprop?


AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlineQuantos From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 61555 times:

Quoting rikkus67 (Reply 10):
WIsh I was there with you Quantos! How is the noise level compared to a typical turboprop?

I can't be certain in comparison to a turboprop (not many flying around YMX), but what struck me the most is the pitch, especially in comparison to other turbofans, but probably also in comparison to turboprops. It's much lower than I thought it would be. That alone is a game changer in my opinion.


User currently offlineYXwatcherMKE From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1014 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (7 months 1 hour ago) and read 60621 times:

Is there any chance that BBD would send one of the C-series FTV's maybe FTV4 to the EAA Airventure in OSH this year since it is and would still be an Experimental Aircraft at the time of the show. After all Boeing sent the 788 and Airbus the A380 to the show, I think it would be a perfect time for BBD to show off the plane to the flying public. What do you readers think?


I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
User currently offlinequeb From Canada, joined May 2010, 707 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (6 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 60322 times:

A CS100 will be at FARN 14 for sure (confirmed by BBD), maybe Oshkosh too.

User currently offlineWingtip1005 From UK - Northern Ireland, joined Mar 2014, 41 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 59930 times:

Quoting queb (Reply 13):
A CS100 will be at FARN 14 for sure

Fingers crossed I can get to FARN and see it again! I was on a several working parties to Mirabel from Belfast and got to see the final product and first flight.



Be quick, be quiet, and be on time
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5476 posts, RR: 30
Reply 15, posted (6 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 59768 times:

Quoting queb (Reply 13):

Oshkosh is pretty close to the flightpath from Wichita to Montreal. A few years ago I saw the 787 at Oshkosh....it was a huge draw.



What the...?
User currently offlinejalarner From Canada, joined Apr 2007, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 59227 times:

http://www.aex.ru/docs/3/2014/3/31/2009/

Nothing too new in the article, but an interesting read with Google translate.

Jamie



Support air cadets!
User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 58011 times:

FTV2 was transferred yesterday to McKinley Climatic Laboratory for all-weather tests.


Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12145 posts, RR: 34
Reply 18, posted (6 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 57998 times:

Busy times for the Florida laboratory. First the 787-9, now the CSeries and next month the A350.


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineQuantos From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 57784 times:

Sylvain Faust is reporting that FTV1 landed today using normal FBW mode. I must say I'm a bit lost concerning the status of normal FBW flights, though.

User currently offlineYXwatcherMKE From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1014 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (6 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 57493 times:

Quoting Quantos (Reply 19):
I must say I'm a bit lost concerning the status of normal FBW flights, though.

Is that you are concerned or is Faust is concerned? And if it is your personally why are you concerned?

[Edited 2014-04-04 21:33:09]


I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
User currently offlineYYZYYT From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 971 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 57137 times:

Quoting YXwatcherMKE (Reply 20):
Quoting Quantos (Reply 19):
I must say I'm a bit lost concerning the status of normal FBW flights, though.


Is that you are concerned or is Faust is concerned? And if it is your personally why are you concerned?

I read the comment differently, i.e., that he "is lost REGARDING the status of normal FBW flights", not that he is "concerned"....

And I see what Quants means - there has been very little posted here over the last few days. I presume (hope???) that this is a because it is no longer newsworthy and novel that a CSeries FTV is actually flying, and NOT because they have been parked.

Does anyone have an update regarding the status of the test program (including the extent to which normal FBW has been used)?


User currently offlineargonaught From United States of America, joined Jan 2014, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 56404 times:

How many active FTV's do we have now?

User currently offlineQuantos From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 56301 times:

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 21):
I read the comment differently, i.e., that he "is lost REGARDING the status of normal FBW flights", not that he is "concerned"....

And I see what Quants means - there has been very little posted here over the last few days. I presume (hope???) that this is a because it is no longer newsworthy and novel that a CSeries FTV is actually flying, and NOT because they have been parked.

Exactly, I just haven't followed the news concerning the test flights this past few weeks, so I was a bit lost as they have in fact flown quite a bit lately. It's hard to keep track of it all with multiple FTVs.

Quoting argonaught (Reply 22):

How many active FTV's do we have now?

As for the status of the flights:

FTV1: Back in Mirabel, last flown yesterday for its 50th flight, which was 3h38 long. It was CSeries' 81st flight total. From what Sylvain Faust reports, it has starting flying at least partially (bit unclear on that front) in normal mode.
FTV2: Flew last week to McKinley Climatic Laboratory for temperature testing.
FTV3: In Wichita, hasn't flown a whole lot lately, as far as I know. I believe that both FTV1 and FTV2 did have a maintenance performed while in Wichita, which grounded both planes for some time. Perhaps it is undergoing the same maintenance now.
FTV4: Has been seen online at Mirabel. First flight is a bit of an unknown. Sylvain Faust believes it should be 2nd or 3rd week of April (grain of salt alert there).


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12145 posts, RR: 34
Reply 24, posted (6 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 55682 times:

FTV2 at the McKinley Climatic Laboratory in Florida:

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BkpchICCcAAW8kg.jpg:large

http://twitter.com/sylvainfaust/status/453276436657238016



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12145 posts, RR: 34
Reply 25, posted (6 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 55322 times:

It seems FTV4 is alive.

http://twitter.com/sylvainfaust/status/454019325804826624



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12145 posts, RR: 34
Reply 26, posted (6 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 53987 times:

Patrick Cardinal made a nice shot of FTV4:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/patcard/13803902314/

Bombardier also published a set photos of FTV2 in Florida:

http://shar.es/T5pbW



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineYYZYYT From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 971 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (6 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 54166 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 26):
Bombardier also published a set photos of FTV2 in Florida:

http://shar.es/T5pbW

ironic: i-ro-nic [ayh-ron-ik], adv: the opposite of what was intended or expected, incongruous; an example of human folly or inconsistency. eg. FTV2, after being produced in Montreal, is sent to Florida for "cold climate" testing.


User currently offlineQuantos From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 53209 times:

FTV1 apparently now has flutter sensors on its wings and stabilizers: http://www.fliegerfaust.com/cseries-...ently-added-flutter-515483895.html

User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12742 posts, RR: 25
Reply 29, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 53231 times:

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 27):
FTV2, after being produced in Montreal, is sent to Florida for "cold climate" testing.

I am definitely left of center politically, but it has to be said that only the US government would put a cold climate lab in Florida! 



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineQuantos From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 53029 times:

To be fair, correct me someone if I'm wrong, but McKinley can both lower temperature as well as increase it dramatically. Either way, one of the two wouldn't make sense regardless of its location.

User currently offlineFridgeguy From Canada, joined Apr 2014, 2 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (6 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 51959 times:

I have happily been following C Series flight tests on flightradar 24 using callsignes BBA 501 BBa502 and so on, but have not been able to pick any of them up for about 3 weeks now .
I am picking up other bba planes by simply entering bba into the filter but no C series. Have the call signs changed ? Am I missing something ? Any help would be appreciated


User currently offlineQuantos From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (6 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 51781 times:

You're not alone; I haven't been able to see them either. Perhaps they've changed something.

User currently offlineYXwatcherMKE From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1014 posts, RR: 2
Reply 33, posted (6 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 51306 times:

Quoting Quantos (Reply 32):
u're not alone; I haven't been able to see them either. Perhap

Agreed!!! I had great connection like "Fridgeguy" was using the bba501, bba502 & bba503 I had 5 or 6 flights for 502 and 3 for 501 & 503 then nothing. All on the same day. What gives? If someone knows what happened I too would like the new "ID" code. PLEASE!!!



I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1581 posts, RR: 3
Reply 34, posted (6 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 51248 times:

Quoting SPQR (Reply 5):
FTV1 getting sensors installed for high speed flutter testing.

So are we moving towards aceptence that flutter has been an issue with the C-Series? Seven months on from first flight and still investigating flutter and the flight envelope does not sound like normal flight test progression to me.



BV
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5476 posts, RR: 30
Reply 35, posted (6 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 50529 times:

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 34):


Testing for flutter doesn't necessarily indicate flutter problems.

It's still early in the program gauging by flight hours. The planes total less than 200 flight test hours thus far, so flutter testing will go on for some time yet. Flutter will be monitored for the entire duration of the flight test program.

The 748 flutter problems with the gear doors and tail didn't show up right away. The gear doors were a fairly quick fix but the tail tank was off limits until after the aircraft was certified...which also goes to show that flutter isn't necessarily a show stopper.

It make sense that at least one FTV is fitted out with dedicated flutter sensors.



What the...?
User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (6 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 49928 times:

Hi guys,
little update on flight testing: all FTVs (except FTV4) are no longer seen on websites like flightradar24 because Bombardier disabled the GPS position reporting via ADS-B, so these kind of public website do not show the plane's position anymore.
Hence, it became difficult to monitor the test fleet.

Anyway, here's the air-time update:
FTV1 flew 124h and is flying now (over FL400), currently focused on flutter tests and related certification
FTV2 flew 55h, currently at the McKinley climatic laboratory for all-weather testing
FTV3 flew circa 24h, based in Wichita for avionics/systems testing
FTV4 is awaiting its flight permit from Transport Canada

Regards,
Paolo



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5476 posts, RR: 30
Reply 37, posted (6 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 49590 times:

Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 36):

I thought the tracking was based on ATC radar and transponder signals, not gps.



What the...?
User currently offlineAircellist From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1721 posts, RR: 8
Reply 38, posted (6 months 5 days ago) and read 49337 times:

Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 36):
little update on flight testing: all FTVs (except FTV4) are no longer seen on websites like flightradar24 because Bombardier disabled the GPS position reporting via ADS-B, so these kind of public website do not show the plane's position anymore.

I'd guess the comparison with the clockwork A350 was too hard to bear…


User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (6 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 49124 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 37):
I thought the tracking was based on ATC radar and transponder signals, not gps.

From what I understood, websites like flightradar24 obtain data from private users around the world, which have so-called "ADS-B receivers".
These stations receive the transponder's mode S signal which includes several data and info, among these the gps coordinates, which are used to plot the plane's position on the map.
Radar controllers use primary radar coupled with secondary (transponder) radar so that the dots on the screen (from the primary radar) get assigned a callsign with the related transponder info.
Mode S transponder is an advanced one: most smaller planes still use mode A+C (just ident and flight level shown to controller).
So disabling the gps coordinates "hides" the plane's position on public websites, but not to ATC.



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1581 posts, RR: 3
Reply 40, posted (6 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 49088 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 35):
The 748 flutter problems with the gear doors and tail didn't show up right away.

Pretty sure the gear doors full flaps flutter problem showed up early on.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 35):

It's still early in the program gauging by flight hours. The planes total less than 200 flight test hours thus far, so flutter testing will go on for some time yet. Flutter will be monitored for the entire duration of the flight test program.

I hear you about flight hours but the FT program has been on going for 7 months now, they should have cleared the normal flight envelope by now and if they are adding specialised flutter sensors at this stage then there would have to be a reason for it.

Quoting Aircellist (Reply 38):
I'd guess the comparison with the clockwork A350 was too hard to bear…

Yup, if things are going right nobody cares whos watching..



BV
User currently offlineStTim From UK - England, joined Aug 2013, 807 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (6 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 49084 times:

Won't disabling the GPS disable the anti collision functions (TCAS?)?

User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5476 posts, RR: 30
Reply 42, posted (6 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 48954 times:

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 40):

Flutter can't be too bad...FTV1 is conducting flights above 40,000' I'd think that if there were serious flutter issues with the CSeries, it would have been leaked by now...but so far, the only place I've seen any reference to it being a potential problem is A.Net....not that it isn't a possibility.

It seems at least as likely to me that the delays on expanding the flight envelopes are the software issues that have been blamed so far.

After all, BBD does have a lot of experience building a wide variety of aircraft but precious little with FBW.

Quoting StTim (Reply 41):

I always thought TCAS works off of the mode C transponders, not GPS.

Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 39):

I was under the impression that these live sites used mode C returns from ATC.



What the...?
User currently offlinemad99 From Spain, joined Mar 2012, 595 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (6 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 48897 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 42):
It seems at least as likely to me that the delays on expanding the flight envelopes are the software issues that have been blamed so far.

They had a door seal issue months ago and that kept the testing low.


User currently offlineQuantos From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (6 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 48837 times:

I don't know if we can assume there are flutter issues just because sensors have been added now. It's a bit of a stretch to make this assumption. As the plane has started flying over FL400, we could just as easily assume that they want to make sure their previous flutter-related data is respected at such altitude, which could require more precise sensors. Otherwise, perhaps flutter data must be acquired using specific sensors for certification?

These are just very wild guesses, and I'm far from being an expert, but essentially my point is that we can't really assume that a test device added to any test plane necessarily means that there are issues with the data point in question.

[Edited 2014-04-24 04:31:33]

User currently offlinejalarner From Canada, joined Apr 2007, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (6 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 48750 times:

Great to see the altitude increase....so what about faster speeds?


Support air cadets!
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12742 posts, RR: 25
Reply 46, posted (6 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 48759 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 42):
I was under the impression that these live sites used mode C returns from ATC.

AFAIK FlightAware uses FAA data streams as a primary source, and has ADS-B as a secondary source.

FR24 is much more explicit about what they use:

Quote:

The technology we use to receive flight information from aircraft is called ADS-B. Roughly 60% of all passenger aircraft around the world are equipped with an ADS-B transponder. However, this percentage will continue to grow. Read more about the technology behind Flightradar24.

The majority of the data displayed on Flightradar24.com and in our apps is gathered through a network of 500+ ADS-B receivers around the world. To improve our service we are always looking for people willing to contribute data to us. Click here to find out how you can help us increase Flightradar24's global coverage.

In addition to ADS-B data, we also display data from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). This data provides full coverage of the airspace above the United States and Canada. However, this data is slightly delayed (up to 5 minutes) due to FAA regulations. Because of this delay, the planes generated from FAA data are of a different color (orange) than the planes generated from real-time data (yellow).

Flightradar24 would not exist if it weren't for our data feeders. As a thank you, they all get access to a premium version of Flightradar24.com.

We are also very grateful to the volunteers that update the airplane and route databases every day.

Ref: http://www.flightradar24.com/about

That page has a cute section on how it all came about:

Quote:

Flightradar24 started as a hobby project in 2006 when two Swedish aviation geeks decided to build a network of ADS-B receivers in Northern and Central Europe. In 2009 we opened up the network, and made it possible for anyone with an ADS-B receiver to upload data to the network. Many parts of the world were quickly covered, but the quest to provide global ADS-B coverage is still ongoing. Hopefully with your support, we will get there.

And http://www.flightradar24.com/increase-coverage shows you how you can contribute more data.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineAircellist From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1721 posts, RR: 8
Reply 47, posted (6 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 48749 times:

Well… BBD are keeping their cards close to their chest, and have been doing so since the very beginning of that program.

User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 48, posted (6 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 48236 times:

Quoting StTim (Reply 41):
Won't disabling the GPS disable the anti collision functions (TCAS?)?

No. TCAS uses Mode3C replies.



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5476 posts, RR: 30
Reply 49, posted (6 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 48093 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 46):

I know google is supposed to be my friend...but it's not, more often than not, so thanks...that really clears things up for me.

Finding specific, detailed information about something not Kardashian related can be like draining a swamp with a spoon.

Quoting Aircellist (Reply 47):

...which is why one theory about the CSeries, (flutter, for example), is about as plausible as the next.

[Edited 2014-04-24 19:04:00]


What the...?
User currently offlineYXwatcherMKE From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1014 posts, RR: 2
Reply 50, posted (6 months 17 hours ago) and read 47078 times:

I just read this in an article from Flightglobal.....

The other major airliner that is due to enter service this year is the Bombardier CSeries. However – although it would be an enormous marketing fillip for a type still struggling for orders – it appears unlikely that the CS100 will appear at Farnborough.

The issue for the Canadian manufacturer is that while its sales team would love the opportunity to show off the narrowbody at the year’s biggest air show, the type is bogged down in a delayed and highly-complex flight test programme.


I can not believe that BBD is thinking that they will not have the C-100 at the show. I think this will be a big, Big, BIG mistake. What do you all think?



I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5476 posts, RR: 30
Reply 51, posted (6 months 16 hours ago) and read 47069 times:

They will have as many as 5 FTV's in the air by Farnborough. I find it very hard to believe that they won't be able to spare one of them for the few days it would take to attend the show.

I remember reading, (I don't know where), that there was a plan to send FTV5, (the full airline interior test aircraft), but would send one of the others if 5 wasn't ready for the show.



What the...?
User currently offlineA5XX From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 245 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (5 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 46574 times:

The time has come, for Bombardier to show something to potential customers. Bombardier must do what it takes to get orders in. It would be a big mistake to miss that opportunity.

[Edited 2014-04-29 07:21:24]


we are the boeing... resistance is futile...You will be assimilated
User currently offlineSSTeve From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 722 posts, RR: 1
Reply 53, posted (5 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 46340 times:

I'm beginning to picture Bombardier's commercial airplane unit as being run by cloistered engineers who expect the world to beat a path to their door for having a meticulously crafted, elegant aircraft.

I know it's more likely that they think they can do all their marketing through sales calls, but come on...


User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1581 posts, RR: 3
Reply 54, posted (5 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 46178 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 51):
They will have as many as 5 FTV's in the air by Farnborough. I find it very hard to believe that they won't be able to spare one of them for the few days it would take to attend the show.

Yes, I think that they really need to take send an airframe to Farnborough even if only for static display, if they don't they will have little chance of gaining any new customer commitments.



BV
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12145 posts, RR: 34
Reply 55, posted (5 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 46191 times:

Perhaps the pilots are not comfortable flying the a/c to Farnborough?


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineTSS From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 3070 posts, RR: 5
Reply 56, posted (5 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 46102 times:

Quoting Quantos (Reply 44):
I don't know if we can assume there are flutter issues just because sensors have been added now. It's a bit of a stretch to make this assumption. As the plane has started flying over FL400, we could just as easily assume that they want to make sure their previous flutter-related data is respected at such altitude, which could require more precise sensors.

I was thinking more or less the same thing. Entering the realm of speculation, maybe Bombardier encountered less flutter than anticipated during initial test flights and fitted more precise sensors to confirm their earlier findings at higher speed and altitude? While that is an outside chance at best, it would not be the first time a design performed better than expected for reasons that aren't immediately obvious.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 54):

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 51):
They will have as many as 5 FTV's in the air by Farnborough. I find it very hard to believe that they won't be able to spare one of them for the few days it would take to attend the show.

Yes, I think that they really need to take send an airframe to Farnborough even if only for static display, if they don't they will have little chance of gaining any new customer commitments.

Agreed.



Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
User currently offlinepnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2250 posts, RR: 12
Reply 57, posted (5 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 46020 times:

Often the underlying assumption on Anet is that broad public, or even the aviation fan population, and the professional aviation industry, or the airlines are all equal. Vastly different audiences that require vastly different communication strategies. No wise marketer or ad exec is going to be idiotic enough to equate all the above need all the information.

For example the broad public is for general support of the airframe to support people choosing to fly the aircraft when there is competing choices, and therefore in a tangential way support your customers for the airframe. It also can be for share price support. A manufacturer might take a temporary hit on stock prices by choice, assuming that prices will bounce back up by a certain time frame such as delivery of first aircraft, or certification, or major sales levels or orders.

The aviation fan arena isn't much different except that it creates a little more background buzz in the PR arena, but believe me isn't much more than the general public.

The professional aviation community is a bit different. Here they are much more patient and know the actual milestones that matter and aren't necessarily as willing to jump to unsubstantiated rumours. On the other hand they can also in their own way generate rumours more malicious in nature (fan or supplier of another manufacturer). The buzz in this community is even more important but again not as important as those who actually make the orders.

Now where the error comes is the assumption that airlines and key sales prospects are not being kept in the loop. Public communications and proprietary information and updates supplied to airlines are not equal and one can be ongoing and another totally silent. There can even be confidentiality clauses that those updates to airlines are not divulged publicly or disseminated throughout the airline company. A good strategy manages all these levels because you want to give the ultimate best impression of your product even though the level of support drops considerably with each circle further from the buyer you go.

So I don't know what the full communication/pr/marketing strategy Bombardier has for the CSeries. With the naval gazing and belly lint counting that goes on these days in blogs, many companies are starting to shut down broad communications because it is unmanageable to an extent and prone to misuse. There are times I have actually recommended that to clients to stop some of the nonsense and damage that can unfairly take place. So I can't say the silence is better or worse in this case. Nor can I say what is actually being communicated to the buyers and potential customers. I guarantee that there is disclosure clauses that have been signed.

What I want to repeat again, the majority of this blog has nothing to do with the professional decision making process, or order makers for an aircraft. So while I miss the daily updates myself it ain't gonna effect sales or orders. If it does then the airline who has binders and binders of analysis and information on the aircraft, studies of the suitability, projections of costs, maintenance projections, and all sorts of information that takes a huge amount of hours to assemble, then they are morons and it is a miracle that they are still in business.

NOW, that being said, IF Bombardier is making a massive error and not having a continuous dialogue with customers and potential customers then that is a totally different situation. To borrow a phrase from over the pond, I would be gobsmacked if Bombardier is not doing exactly that.


User currently offlineAircellist From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1721 posts, RR: 8
Reply 58, posted (5 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 45959 times:

And so little news from the test flight front.

Honestly, I'm quite pessimistic. Smells like deep trouble.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12145 posts, RR: 34
Reply 59, posted (5 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 45850 times:

Quoting Aircellist (Reply 58):
And so little news from the test flight front.

Glacial testing is completed, now setting up for hot temperatures:

http://cseries.com/?gallery=nextgen-3331



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineYYZYYT From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 971 posts, RR: 0
Reply 60, posted (5 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 45769 times:

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 54):

Yes, I think that they really need to take send an airframe to Farnborough even if only for static display, if they don't they will have little chance of gaining any new customer commitments.

I would think that BBD would want to do a full power take off, and a few passes - if only to help create some buzz* about the engine noise... more positive results would help sell that jet at Toronto city council (even if they are only anecdotal reports).

Besides, would not the flight to/from count toward the testing total?

* Pun not intended, I swear.


User currently offlinerikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1661 posts, RR: 1
Reply 61, posted (5 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 45718 times:

I, like every other armchair avaition watcher, am certainly curious of the lack of CSeries, however:

Quoting Aircellist (Reply 58):
And so little news from the test flight front.
Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 57):
NOW, that being said, IF Bombardier is making a massive error and not having a continuous dialogue with customers and potential customers then that is a totally different situation. To borrow a phrase from over the pond, I would be gobsmacked if Bombardier is not doing exactly that.

I have to agree with pnwtraveler. With the amount of PR headaches both Airbus and Boeing had with their recent products, I am sure BBD is keeping announcements to the public a little tighter controlled, especially with Flight Test problems.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 59):
Glacial testing is completed, now setting up for hot temperatures:

http://cseries.com/?gallery=nextgen-3331

This is obviously a sign of moving forward. The news might be trickling in for all us overanxious aviation watchers...but it IS still coming. I prefer that over no news at all.



AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6250 posts, RR: 34
Reply 62, posted (5 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 45424 times:

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 57):
the professional aviation industry, or the airlines

Just in case you were not aware, the "industry" is quite networked, with some people having gone from one OEM to another. I know of one engineer that has worked at Bombardier, McDonald Douglas, Boeing, and Gulfstream. Not bad if you ask me. Now add in the OEM program partners and you can imagine just how many people know each other (globally) but work for different companies (that often supply competing OEMs). Plus you have some people that have gone from the OEM side to the airline side and vice versa. And, of course, OEMs have their CI unit. Within the industry there are few real secrets; just delayed details.  



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5476 posts, RR: 30
Reply 63, posted (5 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 45293 times:

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 57):

BBD is obviously keeping customers and potential customers informed to some degree. LH recently said they are satisfied with the progress on the program.

We mere mortals will just have to wait around for the crumbs.



What the...?
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12145 posts, RR: 34
Reply 64, posted (5 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 44530 times:

Bombardier is optimistic for new orders at Farnborough:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...es-as-aircraft-shipments-rise.html



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinetravelhound From Australia, joined May 2008, 943 posts, RR: 12
Reply 65, posted (5 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 44457 times:

Quoting TSS (Reply 56):
Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 54):

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 51):
They will have as many as 5 FTV's in the air by Farnborough. I find it very hard to believe that they won't be able to spare one of them for the few days it would take to attend the show.

Yes, I think that they really need to take send an airframe to Farnborough even if only for static display, if they don't they will have little chance of gaining any new customer commitments.

Agreed.

Considering the issues Boeing and Airbus had with the 787 and A380 programs respectively, a more prudent approach from BBD might represent the least risk option.

Considering Boeing still have 10-12 very expensive early build 787's still sitting at Everett waiting for change incorporation, a slow and investment prudent certification and production ramp up of the C-Series might just represent the better financial option.

I wouldn't be too hard on BBD as yet!

Another point of consideration is the sales potential for the C-Series verses the MAX and NEO once it enters into service.

Again, it just might be the case, the C-Series will have much greater appeal once it is a revenue generating operational aircraft. Considering the 737 and A320 (are for argument sake) almost sold out for the next seven years a C-Series option with 1-2 year delivery dates and with known performance and operational figures may represent a real opportunity for BBD (and its customers).

I'll be interested to see this one play out. It could be a story of the Tortoise and the Hair !!


User currently offlineQuantos From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 66, posted (5 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 44466 times:



Quoting travelhound (Reply 65):
I'll be interested to see this one play out. It could be a story of the Tortoise and the Hair !!

This turtle is indeed very hairy. Yuck.  

[Edited 2014-05-01 06:46:49]

User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 67, posted (5 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 44237 times:

Bombardier released its 2014 Q1 Financial Report. It includes an undisclosed addition of 2 CS300, apparently consisting of converted options.
Total CSeries orders now at 203 frames from 18 customers.



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5476 posts, RR: 30
Reply 68, posted (5 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 43877 times:

Some good news for the program...CSeries flight envelope has been expanded to mach 0.82 and 41,000'.
http://www.fliegerfaust.com

Flutter must not be that bad after all. .. Or they've fixed it.



What the...?
User currently offlinetravelhound From Australia, joined May 2008, 943 posts, RR: 12
Reply 69, posted (5 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 43824 times:

Quoting Quantos (Reply 66):
This turtle is indeed very hairy. Yuck.  

I don't believe I did that. My excuse is it was late when I wrote it!!!!


User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1581 posts, RR: 3
Reply 70, posted (5 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 43587 times:

http://www.fliegerfaust.com/engine-f...-while-in-test-flig-529580840.html

Whats going on here, which engine was on fire? I'm assuming not the PW1100G as that would be kind of a big deal...

Edit: Lord, PW are following Boeing's lead with non fire, fires.. Sounds like it was a PW1100G so not directly a C Series issue

Quote:
"The engine was shut down as a precaution," the company said in a statement about the test flight from its Mirabel Aerospace Centre.

"Examination of the engine revealed that there was no apparent damage, and we expect to run it again in the next day or two. Minor anomalies such as this are common in flight test. Early reports in the media of a fire on the engine were inaccurate."

And it wasn't the media that said the engine was on fire it was the tower, there is a recording of them informing the FTB.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...whitney-fire-idUSL2N0NM1FV20140430

[Edited 2014-05-01 19:29:24]


BV
User currently offlinemiller22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 720 posts, RR: 4
Reply 71, posted (5 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 43546 times:

http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/Pratt+Whitney+looks+into+engine+test+incident/9787709/story.html

Was not a CSeries engine. That leaves the only other GTF engine flying...


User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1581 posts, RR: 3
Reply 72, posted (5 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 43533 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 68):
Flutter must not be that bad after all. .. Or they've fixed it.

Fixed it and fitted sensors to confirm it was solved would be my guess but in any case it seems to be fixed which is good news.



BV
User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6250 posts, RR: 34
Reply 73, posted (5 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 42892 times:

Some information yesterday about UK startup Odyssey Airlines to raise funds via crowdfunding. Odyssey has 10 CS100 on "firm" order and 5 options.


Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlinebingo1 From Canada, joined Dec 2009, 110 posts, RR: 0
Reply 74, posted (5 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 42640 times:

Today the Motley Fool had an interesting article on BBD. It was about the company as a whole but also talked about the C-series. It pretty much said that with all the train orders, a good plane coming(C-series, and air travel expansion in some areas that have/are loyal to the Q400's the future is pretty bright. It also said that although some want to talk about BBD bleeding cash it is consistently profitable. Even for all the bad news of 2013 it actually was profitable.


Planecrzy
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12145 posts, RR: 34
Reply 75, posted (5 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 42434 times:

IMO 200 firm orders is a good number. In the past, many jets had entered service with only half that figure. I think people are too much looking at the 737/A320 orders.


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6250 posts, RR: 34
Reply 76, posted (5 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 42123 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 75):
IMO 200 firm orders is a good number.

Of course there are various degrees of "firm" when compared to LH, for example, who is a customer, partner and supplier.  

Ilyushin Finance Co. - 32 CS300 (relations with Canada are at an all time low over Ukraine)

Republic Airways Holdings - 40 CS300 (order was for Frontier Airlines but Republic no longer own Frontier)

Odyssey Airlines - 10 CS100 (startup looking for cash)

Iraqi Airways - 5 CS300 (ordered 10 CRJ900s but only took delivery of 6)

airBaltic - 10 CS300 (restructuring after government took ownership, bailed out airline)

SaudiGulf Airlines - 16 CS300 (startup hoping to begin ops in 2015)



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlinegolfradio From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 793 posts, RR: 2
Reply 77, posted (5 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 42292 times:

Quoting planemaker (Reply 76):

Seriously do we have to keep rehashing this every 20 replies in all CSeries threads? We get it that in your opinion the order book is probably only 30 firm and rest is all fluff.


User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6250 posts, RR: 34
Reply 78, posted (5 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 42260 times:

Quoting golfradio (Reply 77):
Seriously do we have to keep rehashing this every 20 replies

Rehash every 20? It hasn't been discussed once in this thread until now... moreover, I didn't bring up the issue of "firm orders". Just simply replied. 



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5634 posts, RR: 29
Reply 79, posted (5 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 42169 times:

Quoting golfradio (Reply 77):
We get it that in your opinion the order book is probably only 30 firm and rest is all fluff.

To be fair, it isn't really just his opinion. Every one of those listed is in some way tenuous. While it isn't pleasant to have to discuss it in what most of us want to be a positive thread about the CSeries, it is the reality that it is living in.

Realistically, a couple more blue chip orders - UA, for example - would really bolster the orderbook. Certainly more than undisclosed and upstart customers.

I'm hopeful, though. I have to be if I ever want to see the CS500!

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12145 posts, RR: 34
Reply 80, posted (5 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 41952 times:

AirInsight published their April flight test update:

http://airinsight.com/2014/05/01/flight-tests-update/



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinebingo1 From Canada, joined Dec 2009, 110 posts, RR: 0
Reply 81, posted (5 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 41837 times:

Quoting planemaker (Reply 78):
Just simply replied.
Quoting planemaker (Reply 73):
Some information yesterday about UK startup Odyssey Airlines to raise funds via crowdfunding. Odyssey has 10 CS100 on "firm" order and 5 options.

I don't call this replying. Order count was not being discussed at the time.

I read an article the other day that mentioned that the Cseries latest delay was not a bad thing in regards to the Republic order. It said this delay gives Republic time to figure stuff out and get some cash together to pay for the new equipment.

Even though BBD fans would love to see more orders, it is of note that even with the latest delay no orders were cancelled. I tend to think BBD gave quite open ended deals even on their firm orders and to me the lack of cancellations is remarkable.



Planecrzy
User currently offlineargonaught From United States of America, joined Jan 2014, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 82, posted (5 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 41731 times:

Do we know how many hours have the FTV's clocked so far? There must be some info somewhere on this forum, but it's eluding me. No info on their web page either.

User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6250 posts, RR: 34
Reply 83, posted (5 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 41649 times:

Quoting bingo1 (Reply 81):
Order count was not being discussed at the time.

My reply was to:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 75):

IMO 200 firm orders is a good number.
Quoting bingo1 (Reply 81):
It said this delay gives Republic time to figure stuff out and get some cash together to pay for the new equipment.

it isn't a matter of getting "some cash together" but of Scope.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlinebingo1 From Canada, joined Dec 2009, 110 posts, RR: 0
Reply 84, posted (5 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 41576 times:

Quoting planemaker (Reply 83):
My reply was to:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 75):

IMO 200 firm orders is a good number.

Gotcha

Quoting planemaker (Reply 83):
it isn't a matter of getting "some cash together" but of Scope.

My mistake. I found the article.

http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...ings-inc-could-benefit-from-b.aspx



Planecrzy
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12145 posts, RR: 34
Reply 85, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 41088 times:

CSeries clears flight envelope extremes for speed, altitude:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...xtremes-for-speed-altitude-398802/



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13271 posts, RR: 100
Reply 86, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 40973 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 85):

CSeries clears flight envelope extremes for speed, altitude:

FINALLY! This is a big milestone that needed to be cleared. I hope this means an acceleration of flight testing. That and the start of testing in 'normal mode' to clear those test points.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12145 posts, RR: 34
Reply 87, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 40126 times:

Aerial view of FTV4:

http://twitter.com/MaxLandryTVA/stat...s/463656416121602049/photo/1/large



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6250 posts, RR: 34
Reply 88, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 39772 times:

Here is the link to Odyssey's crowd funding site: Odyssey Crowd Source

Not too many details but they plan to have 40 lie-flat seats in the CS100 with EIS in 2016. Some of Odyssey's "primary investors" were also backers of SilverJet.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12145 posts, RR: 34
Reply 89, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 39021 times:

Air Canada wants to decide on its next narrow-body order in the first half of this year.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...ries-orders-too-few-too-small.html



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineQuantos From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 90, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 38860 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 89):
Air Canada wants to decide on its next narrow-body order in the first half of this year.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...ries-orders-too-few-too-small.html

Pretty interesting. It seems the hopes are high that AC will indeed order the CSeries:

From the article...

"Air Canada, which wants to decide on its next narrow-body order in the first half of this year, is studying the CSeries, CEO Calin Rovinescu said in January.

The CSeries “will be a very good airplane no matter what,” Rovinescu told reporters after a Jan. 27 speech in Montreal. “The delays in and of themselves are not something that is a factor for us. This is an analysis that has about 150 different drivers for us. It’s not just about getting a good deal.”

Walter Spracklin, an analyst at RBC Capital Markets in Toronto, predicts Air Canada will order more than 20 CSeries jets."

[Edited 2014-05-08 07:16:12]

User currently offlineinfiniti329 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 91, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 38841 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 89):
Air Canada wants to decide on its next narrow-body order in the first half of this year.

AC is in the driver's seat for this one and I bet they know it. BBD will move mountains to get this order. After dumping some E190s on Boeing, this would BBDs order to loose but I dont see how they will. Having this order would give BBD three global airlines whom have orders LH, KE and hopefully AC.


User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6250 posts, RR: 34
Reply 92, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 38405 times:

Responses from Montreal Gazette: CSeries struggles weigh on Bombardier

Quoting argonaught (Reply 82):
Do we know how many hours have the FTV's clocked so far?
QUOTE: As of May 1, the company had logged about 280 hours of flight tests, or about 12 per cent of the planned total, Beaudoin said.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 79):
Every one of those listed is in some way tenuous. While it isn't pleasant to have to discuss it in what most of us want to be a positive thread about the CSeries, it is the reality that it is living in.

Realistically, a couple more blue chip orders - UA, for example - would really bolster the orderbook. Certainly more than undisclosed and upstart customers.
QUOTE: While Boeing Co. and Airbus Group NV book orders for their single-aisle jets by the hundreds, Bombardier’s CSeries tally is 203. Only one of the 12 named customers, Deutsche Lufthansa AG, ranks among the world’s top 20 by passenger traffic. The next-largest buyer, Korean Air Lines Co., ranked 31st in 2012, according to an International Air Transport Association study.

“They’ll get the plane done, but the problem here is really the orders,” Tyerman said. “It’s still somewhat distressing what the order book looks like, in terms of who’s in it.”



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5634 posts, RR: 29
Reply 93, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 37922 times:

Quoting planemaker (Reply 92):
Do we know how many hours have the FTV's clocked so far?QUOTE: As of May 1, the company had logged about 280 hours of flight tests, or about 12 per cent of the planned total, Beaudoin said.

Yikes. That seems somewhat low at this stage. I guess this is one program that is going to simmer and not boil.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12145 posts, RR: 34
Reply 94, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 37502 times:

FTV2 returning home from Florida:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/patcard/13958429319/



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineQuantos From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 95, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 37364 times:

What's that on the engines and tail?

User currently offlinejalarner From Canada, joined Apr 2007, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 96, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 37352 times:

Quoting Quantos (Reply 95):
What's that on the engines and tail?

The bottom of the photo says this...I missed it at first.

"Although she looks a little worse for wear, the black paint was applied to temperature critical areas to test for the worst possible extreme temperature scenario."



Support air cadets!
User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6250 posts, RR: 34
Reply 97, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 37320 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 93):
Yikes. That seems somewhat low at this stage. I guess this is one program that is going to simmer and not boil.

When BBD first announced the latest round of delays most everyone thought that they had padded the schedule because they wanted to definitively avoid the repeated spectacle of blowing past deadlines. Now, however, with the rate of testing some analysts are even beginning to doubt CSeries EIS before 2016. Goldman Sachs has pushed their CSeries EIS estimate into 1st half of 2016.

Quoting jalarner (Reply 96):
"Although she looks a little worse for wear, the black paint was applied to temperature critical areas to test for the worst possible extreme temperature scenario."

For environmental testing the black paint has ~0.96 solar absorptivity compared to white with ~0.25.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineQuantos From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 98, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 37229 times:

Quoting jalarner (Reply 96):
The bottom of the photo says this...I missed it at first.

"Although she looks a little worse for wear, the black paint was applied to temperature critical areas to test for the worst possible extreme temperature scenario."

Ah! Indeed, I missed that :P


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12145 posts, RR: 34
Reply 99, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 37034 times:

Video of CSeries FTV2 at McKinley Laboratory, Florida:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYpgmgAmHZ4



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinegolfradio From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 793 posts, RR: 2
Reply 100, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 36945 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 99):

-54 °C. I wonder if someone tried to lick the fuse  


User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2206 posts, RR: 1
Reply 101, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 36849 times:
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Will the CS300 require hundreds of test hours and flights as well or can many tests used on the CS100 be transferred to the CS300 as it is a "simple stretch"?

I'm guessing that the CS300 will be the most popular version with its 150-seat capacity, and thus it will be important to get it out on the market as soon as possible.



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlinequeb From Canada, joined May 2010, 707 posts, RR: 3
Reply 102, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 37150 times:

Only 2 flight test aircrafts for the CS300 (compare to 5 for the CS100). Performances, flutter, stall, powerplant, landing gear and brakes will be tested.

The first will fly somewhere this summer and the second should enter in the FAL in a couple of weeks.

[Edited 2014-05-09 16:30:56]

User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5634 posts, RR: 29
Reply 103, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 36920 times:

Quoting planemaker (Reply 97):
Goldman Sachs has pushed their CSeries EIS estimate into 1st half of 2016.

That seems quite pessimistic.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6250 posts, RR: 34
Reply 104, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 36926 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 103):
That seems quite pessimistic.

I agree, especially at this point in time to be so aggressive in their assessment... they rated the stock a sell saying that it could fall 23%.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineargonaught From United States of America, joined Jan 2014, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 105, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 36867 times:

Quoting planemaker (Reply 97):
Goldman Sachs has pushed their CSeries EIS estimate into 1st half of 2016.

Incidentally, that's what I have always thought. Based not so much on the pace of the CS100 testing, but rather on the EIS history of the most recent clean sheet designs, i.e. the B787, the A380 and the SSJ100. It just takes a lot longer to bring a new aircraft into service than the manufacturers dare to admit to prospective customers.


User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 106, posted (5 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 36798 times:

According to Sylvain Faust, Pratt & Whitney is already performing a performance update on the CSeries engine.
In fact, the higher thrust variant (PW1524G with 23300 lbf of thrust) will be uprated via software upgrades to 25000lbf, becoming a "PW1525G" engine (+9,3% of thrust with no fuel burn penalty).
This update is already being made on FTV4, which should fly on friday if the flight test permit by Transport Canada is awarded by then (it needs low speed taxi completed first).

link: http://www.fliegerfaust.com/cseries-...-25000-lbs-of-thrus-547059395.html



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently onlineDash9 From Canada, joined Nov 2008, 210 posts, RR: 0
Reply 107, posted (5 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 36759 times:

A little side topic. Sylvain Faust post a link to P&W where they explain the PW1000G family. MRF, CRJ, NEO, MC-21 are listed... but the E2 is not in there. Is it that the exact powerplant configuration is not yet finalized?

http://www.pw.utc.com/Content/PurePo...rePowerEngineFamily_SpecsChart.pdf


User currently offlinequeb From Canada, joined May 2010, 707 posts, RR: 3
Reply 108, posted (5 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 36720 times:

His fact sheet is not up to date:

http://www.purepowerengine.com/technology.html

Anyway, the PW1700 is a PW1200 and the PW1900 is a PW1500.

[Edited 2014-05-12 14:35:55]

User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12145 posts, RR: 34
Reply 109, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 36657 times:

FTV1 has been equipped with an antenna.

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnhgkilCQAA3ZmX.png:large

http://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/466228743522893824/photo/1



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6250 posts, RR: 34
Reply 110, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 36645 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 109):

FTV1 has been equipped with an antenna.

Bombardier Confirms Global Broadband Connectivity to be Offered as Line-fit Option on CSeries Aircraft

May 13, 2014 Montréal
Aerospace, Press Release

Panasonic and Bombardier team up to offer line-fit installation of broadband connectivity system for the first time on a single-aisle aircraft

Bombardier Aerospace announced today that the installation of a satellite-based Ku-band antenna on CSeries flight test vehicle one (FTV1) is now complete. The installation comes as the company teams with Panasonic Avionics Corporation (Panasonic) to offer in-flight global connectivity as a line-fit option for the first time on a single-aisle aircraft.

The Panasonic eXConnect® system allows operators of CSeries aircraft to provide passengers with a wide range of connectivity solutions, including internet browsing, incoming and outgoing email, mobile telephony (with the addition of Panasonic’s eXPhone® system), as well as live television content from both satellite or ground reception (with the addition of Panasonic’s eXTV® system).

“The eXConnect® system is the only global broadband, in-flight connectivity service available in the world today, and we are thrilled that it has been chosen to join other advanced technology systems on the all-new, innovative CSeries aircraft,” said David Bruner, Vice President, Global Communication Services, Panasonic Avionics Corporation. “It is very exciting that airlines can now select our eXConnect® system for line-fit installation and provide a truly unique passenger experience enhanced with broadband internet access, VPN services, email and much more.”

“We’re excited to publicly share this news about the line-fit option for in-flight connectivity as it demonstrates once again how we are equipping the CSeries aircraft with leading-edge technologies. Today’s passengers welcome the convenience that in-flight connectivity brings and we are working to support airlines in providing the best passenger experience,” said Robert Dewar, Vice President, CSeries Program, Bombardier Commercial Aircraft. “In addition to offering connectivity solutions such as eXConnect®, the CSeries family of aircraft has also been designed to support embedded audio and video on-demand (AVOD) systems to deliver high-quality entertainment solutions directly to passengers via seat-back monitors and also via wireless broadcast.”

During early program phases, the CSeries aircraft’s design team reserved space for a variety of AVOD and connectivity systems to ensure there would be no impact on the aircraft’s cargo or cabin stowage spaces.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12145 posts, RR: 34
Reply 111, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 36669 times:

A fresh CSeries program update video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGCP4lbuVRI

[Edited 2014-05-13 08:48:09]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12145 posts, RR: 34
Reply 112, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 33445 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 89):
Air Canada wants to decide on its next narrow-body order in the first half of this year.

The decision has been taken, no CSeries plans for the moment.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...braer-jets-in-blow-to-cseries.html



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineQuantos From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 113, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 33355 times:

Yep, no planes at all in fact. That's gotta be a hit for BBD.

User currently onlineDash9 From Canada, joined Nov 2008, 210 posts, RR: 0
Reply 114, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 33350 times:

Quoting Quantos (Reply 113):
Yep, no planes at all in fact. That's gotta be a hit for BBD.

They are essentially postponing the decision and it still leaves a door opened for the Cseries but later down the road. While a deception it is still much better than if they had signed for the E2.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12145 posts, RR: 34
Reply 115, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 33275 times:

To avoid this thread from being flooded, I created a separate thread:

Air Canada To Keep 25 Embraer Jets (by KarelXWB May 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineyyzyyt From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 971 posts, RR: 0
Reply 116, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 33239 times:

Quoting Dash9 (Reply 114):
and it still leaves a door opened for the Cseries but later down the road. While a deception it is still much better than if they had signed for the E2.

True.

Then again, you could also say that they are leaving the door open for the E2, down the road. With the 25 E-Jets so young, why rush? Wait for both programs to come forward and mature, evaluate actual numbers and then decide.*

Anyway, fingers crossed.

YYZYYT

* Hey, this "armchair airline exec" thing is easier than I thought!


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12145 posts, RR: 34
Reply 117, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 32884 times:

FTV4 received its flight permit.

http://cseries.com/ftv4-transport-canada-awards-the-flight-permit/



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12145 posts, RR: 34
Reply 118, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 32201 times:

Bombardier was present at the Regional Airline Association 2014 Conference:

http://youtu.be/EQWlcR3sFHg
http://youtu.be/Rc91-I5ERWA



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12145 posts, RR: 34
Reply 119, posted (5 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 31305 times:

FTV4 first flight is scheduled for today.

http://twitter.com/Bombardier_Aero/status/468057626514034688



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12145 posts, RR: 34
Reply 120, posted (5 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 30930 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 119):
FTV4 first flight is scheduled for today.

And back on the ground, that was a successful first flight.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12145 posts, RR: 34
Reply 121, posted (5 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 30534 times:

Press release about the first flight of FTV4:

Quote:
Bombardier is pleased to confirm that the fourth CSeries flight test vehicle (FTV4) took to the skies on May 18, 2014, on its maiden flight from Mirabel, Québec. FTV4 received Transport Canada’s Flight Test Permit on May 14, 2014.

The first flight was conducted under the command of Captain Maurice ‘Moe’ Girard, Flight Test Pilot, Bombardier Flight Test Centre. Capt. Girard was assisted by First Officer Christophe Marchand and Flight Test Engineers Dylan Hinton and James Maxwell. The duration of the first flight lasted 2 hours and 56 minutes, reaching an altitude of 12,500 metres (41,000 feet) and an air speed of 550 km/h (300 knots).

“Seeing that the aircraft flew within four days of receiving its Transport Canada Flight Permit, it’s fitting that FTV4 will test the CSeries’ performance,” said Rob Dewar, Vice President and General Manager, CSeries Program. “The configuration of FTV4 is optimized to test the performance of the aircraft and will validate the aircraft’s speed, range, drag and airflow characteristics, as well as its fuel burn. It’s exciting to realize that the flight test program is progressing well as we’ve just seen the fourth FTV take to the skies, leaving just one more flight test vehicle to join the CS100 fleet, as well as the two CS300 aircraft that will be joining the program soon.”

http://cseries.com/ftv4-takes-off-on-its-maiden-flight/



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinejalarner From Canada, joined Apr 2007, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 122, posted (5 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 30143 times:

http://www.fliegerfaust.com/cseries-...tm_source=RebelAlerts-sylvainfaust

Very interesting....Republic CEO on business with a couple minutes on the CSeries. CSeries stuff starts at about 6:15.



Support air cadets!
User currently offlinerikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1661 posts, RR: 1
Reply 123, posted (5 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 29839 times:

Republic CEO does state that they are concerned with the low sales volume, that's a given. Going a bit farther into the conversation however, and most importantly, he said they are NOT talking about any cancellation of their order.


AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlineQuantos From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 124, posted (5 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 29249 times:

We can see that the flight envelope has definitely evolved; FTV4 flew up to FL410 on its first flight.

User currently offlinerikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1661 posts, RR: 1
Reply 125, posted (5 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 28859 times:

Quoting Quantos (Reply 124):
FTV4 flew up to FL410 on its first flight.

That's gotta be some happy making new in Montreal!



AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlineYYZYYT From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 971 posts, RR: 0
Reply 126, posted (5 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 28865 times:

This is a question for those who have experienced flight testing programs first hand (or are well informed from their work experience in the industry, etc).

There have been several references to FTV 4 being tasked with providing performance numbers under actual mission scenarios... how is FTV 4 (or its flight program) different from the work done by / with FTV 1-3?

For example, there was reference to the CSeries completing stall testing, before the envelope was opened up... is this a distinct phase of the testing program? Are there other "phases" that are performed before / simultaneously with the task now performed by FTV 4?

Just trying to understand the "context" behind the various announcements.

Thanks!

YYZYYT


User currently offlineSSTeve From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 722 posts, RR: 1
Reply 127, posted (5 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 29474 times:

It doesn't discuss "phases," but this does discuss the focus of each FTV:
http://airinsight.com/2014/03/21/bom...er-investor-day-aerospace-summary/

I read that as FTV4 focusing on all the money-making performance metrics, rather than flight envelope. Though if something else needed doing for certification, I'm sure they'd retask one or another FTV.


User currently offlinerikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1661 posts, RR: 1
Reply 128, posted (5 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 29037 times:

An interesting read on the Fly-by-wire system:

"....During the Q&A session, Guy clarified that the fly-by-wire system has indeed been operating on the aircraft, and that direct mode is used for flight testing because the “normal” mode, which prohibits certain actions by pilots, would, for example not permit the stall and unusual attitude tests that are currently being completed. He emphasized that normal mode is installed and running on CIASTA, the iron-bird test machine, and will be fully installed on the test fleet soon to enable testing of the normal mode, once the other required tests are completed. With direct mode, the test pilot is in full control of the aircraft, without the normal mode restrictions in place."



AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlinemurf From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 129, posted (5 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 28922 times:

Quoting rikkus67 (Reply 128):
An interesting read on the Fly-by-wire system:

"....During the Q&A session, Guy clarified that the fly-by-wire system has indeed been operating on the aircraft, and that direct mode is used for flight testing because the “normal” mode, which prohibits certain actions by pilots, would, for example not permit the stall and unusual attitude tests that are currently being completed. He emphasized that normal mode is installed and running on CIASTA, the iron-bird test machine, and will be fully installed on the test fleet soon to enable testing of the normal mode, once the other required tests are completed. With direct mode, the test pilot is in full control of the aircraft, without the normal mode restrictions in place."

That is how it was explained to me by someone who works for Embraer too...he said when testing the E170/190's most testing of the FBW system was in direct mode because in normal mode software restricts their ability to perform many tests by restricting/limiting flight control deflection based on airspeed or AOA etc.

I was thinking Embraer's way of testing, which made perfect sense, was strange due to reports of the A350 flying in normal mode after only a week or two, but since the Cseries is taking this approach too maybe its kinda normal.

I too bought into the hype that Cseries testing must not be going well due to the FTV's not testing in normal mode yet.

Either way, rikkus67's post leads me to believe Cseries testing is progressing similar to Embraer's and it be in service before we know it.

Comparing the Cseries test program to Airbus test program is unfair, With the A320, A330/340, A380 and A350, Airbus has much more FBW experience to draw from.

Murf


User currently offlineYXwatcherMKE From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1014 posts, RR: 2
Reply 130, posted (5 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 28701 times:

I happy to see that FTV-4 has made its first flight. But, what does it mean for the flight test program? Does it just add another aircraft to the testing so that it gets more flight hours, or does it have it's own specific role in the testing of the a/c?

http://twitter.com/Bombardier_Aeroht...4-second-flight-tod-558321851.html

The Second flight already in its early life on the Flight line. Which by the way does anyone know how many flight hours have been reached so far? I know the program has past the 300 hour mark but how far past it is it now? I can't remember is it 1500 hours or 2500 hours until it can be certified for commercial use? Ifit is 1500 hours then with just 300 hours it would means just 10 hours a week for each FTV til the end of the year to reach the goal 1500 hours. And that wit hjust the current 4 FTV why are so many saying that they will not certify until 2016? If it is 2500 hours then that adds 7.75 more hours a week or 3. 55 hours a day 5 days/week to the current 4 FTV. Most regional jets fly 10 hours a day 6 or 7 days a week, WHY CAN'T they get it done this year?



I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12145 posts, RR: 34
Reply 131, posted (5 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 28579 times:

Quoting YXwatcherMKE (Reply 130):
I happy to see that FTV-4 has made its first flight. But, what does it mean for the flight test program? Does it just add another aircraft to the testing so that it gets more flight hours, or does it have it's own specific role in the testing of the a/c?

FTV4 will be used for performance tests.

http://leehamnews.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/cseries-update-2014_2.jpg



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinemurf From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 132, posted (5 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 28027 times:

This article casts a little more doubt on whether Republic will take delivery of their Cseries

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...hs-future-of-order.html?cmpid=yhoo

Murf


User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6250 posts, RR: 34
Reply 133, posted (5 months 1 week ago) and read 27854 times:

Quoting murf (Reply 132):
This article casts a little more doubt on whether Republic will take delivery of their Cseries

Just In case you didn't know, there is already a thread on this topic: Republic CSeries Order In Limbo  



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlinechallengerdan From Canada, joined Sep 2003, 173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 134, posted (4 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 25806 times:

Bombardier put out a press release about a engine incident on FTV1 yesterday during ground runs. Any one has more info? One spotting community web page had a picture of it but it was taken down.

See release here:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bombar...ne-related-incident-184546901.html



if your flight goes MX in YUL, I might be called to fix it!
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12145 posts, RR: 34
Reply 135, posted (4 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 25826 times:

Apparently FTV1 suffered a (major) engine failure during ground tests. More details to follow.

http://tinyurl.com/mkrkjeo



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12145 posts, RR: 34
Reply 136, posted (4 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 25650 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 135):
More details to follow.

Source has been updated, says it was an uncontained engine failure, spewing debris.

http://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/472463988534427648



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinerikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1661 posts, RR: 1
Reply 137, posted (4 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 25444 times:

Better on the ground without passengers, then somewhere outside of Australia...


AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlinechallengerdan From Canada, joined Sep 2003, 173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 138, posted (4 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 25252 times:

Fleet is grounded, according to an interview from Marc Duschesne on local TV in Montreal


if your flight goes MX in YUL, I might be called to fix it!
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12145 posts, RR: 34
Reply 139, posted (4 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 25212 times:

Bombardier has suspended the flight test program and says there is damage to both the aircraft and the engine.


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5634 posts, RR: 29
Reply 140, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 24602 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 139):
Bombardier has suspended the flight test program and says there is damage to both the aircraft and the engine.

That is unfortunate, though I guess that's what the testing phase is for. I hope it's fairly easy to isolate the root cause and make the needed modifications quickly.

On a sidenote, I suppose that they can use this opportunity (a la Boeing) to blame a supplier for their woefully delayed program.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineFinn350 From Finland, joined Jul 2013, 686 posts, RR: 1
Reply 141, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 23917 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 139):
Bombardier has suspended the flight test program and says there is damage to both the aircraft and the engine

This has potential implications to A320neo testing, too, as it is practically the same engine?


User currently offlineinfiniti329 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 142, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 23790 times:

How large can P&W's bill potentially be?

User currently offlineYXwatcherMKE From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1014 posts, RR: 2
Reply 143, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 23502 times:

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 142):
How large can P&W's bill potentially be?

If the Damage is big enough and in a critical component of the Engine then, yes the bill could be very high. But we will just have to wait and see what they find out the problem is before we know how the damage occurred and if it could have been prevented and so on...



I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12145 posts, RR: 34
Reply 144, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 23007 times:

Pratt & Whitney and Bombardier have now removed the damaged PW1500G engine from FTV1. Analysis will start on Sunday (today).

http://aviationweek.com/commercial-a...ne-taken-cseries-ftv-1-inspections

Bombardier also added that all of the flight testing so far has been done in direct law while they are flying normal mode on the iron bird extensively.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinejalarner From Canada, joined Apr 2007, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 145, posted (4 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 21400 times:

I found this interesting...

http://aviationweek.com/commercial-a...altic-lays-out-cs300-network-plans

"Air Baltic is studying several cabin configuration options for the aircraft. The airline has opted for the 160-seat, double over wing exit version of the CS300. Its European lay-out will be at 148 seats, while a team within Air Baltic is looking at two different versions for the medium and long haul operation: One would see six lie-flat business class seats and 105 in economy. The airline is also considering a twelve seat lie-flat business cabin that would reduce economy capacity to 95 seats."

I guess this is one example of why there were very few complaints about one of the delays where Bombardier said customer input was a factor in a delay due to the redesign with the second overwing exit.

Jamie



Support air cadets!
User currently offlinerikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1661 posts, RR: 1
Reply 146, posted (4 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 21303 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 140):
On a sidenote, I suppose that they can use this opportunity (a la Boeing) to blame a supplier for their woefully delayed program.

I won't call it woefully...yet. Delayed, yes.



AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlineairnorth From Canada, joined Jun 2011, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 147, posted (4 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 20563 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Apparently it was the low pressure turbine that failed.
http://www.fliegerfaust.com/#low-pre...e-turbine-failed-in-580709328.html

http://leehamnews.com/2014/06/06/low..._source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

I'm not sure if that is good news or bad since all I know about jet engines is they sound awesome!


User currently offlinerikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1661 posts, RR: 1
Reply 148, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 20562 times:

This was posted in Leeman news. Per the read, this was the prototype engine:

"...BBD emphasized that the failure was unrelated to the gearbox, and also suggested that a manufacturing defect (rather than a design flaw) may have been the cause. The subject engine was known to have problems, and BBD had considered sending it back to Pratt prior to incident on 5/29."

full article:
http://leehamnews.com/2014/06/06/low...es-incident-ubs-citing-bombardier/



AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12145 posts, RR: 34
Reply 149, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 19606 times:

Some positive news: Bombardier has restarted engine ground runs on the CSeries test fleet.

http://cseries.com/cseries-commences-engine-runs-in-mirabel-quebec/

Repairs for FTV1 are also underway and are "manageable".



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineMANYUL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2013, 53 posts, RR: 0
Reply 150, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 19089 times:

Disappointing to hear that it won't be making its debut at Farnborough but at least things are back in motion. Where & when will do people think it will debut? As the article says, Paris is another year away.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-but-rules-out-farnborough-400270/


User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6250 posts, RR: 34
Reply 151, posted (4 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 17680 times:

When it rains... it pours:

Bombardier lays off staff as new Learjet flight testing delayed



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlinesomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3425 posts, RR: 3
Reply 152, posted (4 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 18014 times:

Quoting planemaker (Reply 151):

When it rains... it pours:

Bombardier lays off staff as new Learjet flight testing delayed

Can't see the relevance with the CSeries


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12145 posts, RR: 34
Reply 153, posted (4 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 17995 times:

Quoting planemaker (Reply 151):
When it rains... it pours:

What has that to do with the CSeries?



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5634 posts, RR: 29
Reply 154, posted (4 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 18017 times:

Quoting someone83 (Reply 152):
Can't see the relevance with the CSeries
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 153):
What has that to do with the CSeries?

Wow, when it rains....it pours.  

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlinerikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1661 posts, RR: 1
Reply 155, posted (4 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 17980 times:

"...The affected employees, in production and operations, will be called back after Bombardier makes more progress with flight testing, she said. "

(from the Learjet article)

Not a direct effect on CSeries, by any means. Glad that people will be returning to the Learjet program, all the same!



AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlineTomB From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 156, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 17256 times:

I think Bombardier is getting tight on cash.

Maybe Boeing should step in and pay Bombardier $2.5 Billion for a 50% interest in the C Series program. The C Series is a good aircraft design that serves the 110 seat to 150 seat market. The C Series is complementary to the Boeing 737-8MAX and superior to the Boeing 737-7MAX.

With the influx of cash, some engineering talent and marketing expertise, Boeing could rapidly right the C Series program and turn the C Series into a formidable competitor in the 110 to 150 seat market. The C Series could sell thousands of airplanes over the next 20 years and be a very profitable investment for Boeing.

Boeing's next aircraft program will be a B737/757 replacement as the sweetspot of the narrowbody market moves up to 200 seats by 2025. So in the meantime, I suggest that Boeing protect the bottom side of its product line.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12145 posts, RR: 34
Reply 157, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 17259 times:

Quoting TomB (Reply 156):
The C Series is a good aircraft design that serves the 110 seat to 150 seat market.
Quoting TomB (Reply 156):
I suggest that Boeing protect the bottom side of its product line.

While I have no doubt the CSeries will be the best in its class, it remains to be seen how big this market is.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineargonaught From United States of America, joined Jan 2014, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 158, posted (4 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 16276 times:

Quoting TomB (Reply 156):
Maybe Boeing should step in and pay Bombardier $2.5 Billion for a 50% interest

If Boeing thought the 110-150 seater segment was a place to be, they wouldn't have discontinued their own models of similar capacity. Here is the problem: the 717 sold at a rate of like 20 planes/year. The smaller 737s and 320s also have been selling extremely slowly. Can a new airplane, even if it's X% more economical and Y% more blah-blah-blah turn the 110-150 segment into the place to make megabucks for airlines and aircraft manufacturers alike?


User currently offlineMIflyer12 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 1120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 159, posted (4 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 15960 times:

Quoting TomB (Reply 156):
I think Bombardier is getting tight on cash.

Maybe Boeing should step in and pay Bombardier $2.5 Billion for a 50% interest in the C Series program.
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 157):
While I have no doubt the CSeries will be the best in its class, it remains to be seen how big this market is.

The 1Q14 report showed ~$2.5B in cash & equivalents and a market cap for the whole firm at only $6.8B. Boeing could wait to let things get a little more desperate (cash flow is strongly negative), buy the whole thing and spin off the rail business.


User currently offlinequeb From Canada, joined May 2010, 707 posts, RR: 3
Reply 160, posted (4 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 15827 times:

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 159):
The 1Q14 report showed ~$2.5B in cash & equivalents and a market cap for the whole firm at only $6.8B. Boeing could wait to let things get a little more desperate (cash flow is strongly negative), buy the whole thing and spin off the rail business.

They have to convince the Bombardier family first, Bombardier is publicly traded but most of the voting rights (54,36%) belong to the family.


User currently offlineHeavierthanair From Switzerland, joined Oct 2000, 798 posts, RR: 0
Reply 161, posted (4 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 15417 times:

G´day,

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 159):
Boeing could wait to let things get a little more desperate

I do not see this happening, for that to happen they would have to convert the CSeries to GE power i.e. CFM Leap engines. That´s another 1 billion expenditure right there. I believe the CSeries would be a better fit for Airbus, they could even go for a common type rating, OK, they would have to relocate the joystick, but that cannot be that much of an engineering feat and I guess Airbus would be happy to help out with the fly by wire issues too  
Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 159):
spin off the rail business

I am not sure they rail business is doing much better and can be easily spun off. Just how much in fines do they have to pay for the three or something years delay for the new trains they have contracted for the Swiss railroads that should be in service now. Another few hundred millions gone down the drain  


Cheers

Peter



"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879
User currently offlinejalarner From Canada, joined Apr 2007, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 162, posted (4 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 15159 times:

Quoting Heavierthanair (Reply 161):
Just how much in fines do they have to pay for the three or something years delay for the new trains they have contracted for the Swiss railroads that should be in service now. Another few hundred millions gone down the drain

Not as much as you might think. Articles is a little older, and some of the newer ones are a little mixed depending on the source. At least this one has a quote straight from Bombardier.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bomb...r-swiss-railway-contract-1.1394713

But then you also get ones like this...
http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ss-tilting-double-deck-trains.html

So it makes it hard to see who is at fault. It's almost like the CSeries delay for the additional overwing exits, a delay caused by customer request with the added capacity versions.

Jamie



Support air cadets!
User currently offlineS75752 From United States of America, joined Apr 2014, 478 posts, RR: 0
Reply 163, posted (4 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 14551 times:

I'm not sure which other thread to ask this, so...

Just how far might the CSeries be capable of going?
Might we be seeing it on Transcons, maybe West Coast to Hawaii stuff?
Is there any chance we'll see an engine upgrade from where it's currently at... maybe an ER or LR version with more powerful engines?


User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6250 posts, RR: 34
Reply 164, posted (4 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 14023 times:

Quoting jalarner (Reply 162):
It's almost like the CSeries delay for the additional overwing exits, a delay caused by customer request with the added capacity versions.

That is not the reason for the delay... but people like to trot it out.  

The additional overwing exits are only on the CS300 and was not the reason for the delay(s) of the CS100's first flight.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineYXwatcherMKE From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1014 posts, RR: 2
Reply 165, posted (4 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 13992 times:

Quoting planemaker (Reply 164):
was not the reason for the delay(s) of the CS100's first flight.

Then just exactly was the reason for the delay in the a/c first flight?



I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
User currently offlinegolfradio From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 793 posts, RR: 2
Reply 166, posted (4 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13843 times:

Quoting planemaker (Reply 164):

But isn't that section of the fuselage common to both CS100 and the CS300 high density models?


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5476 posts, RR: 30
Reply 167, posted (4 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13890 times:

Quoting planemaker (Reply 164):

Actually, the stretch to the CS300 did contribute to the first flight delay of the CS100. The overwing exits weren't the only changes required and there were mods made to the CS100 to maintain fleet commonality.

This was confimed by LH at the 2013 unveiling.


www2.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/business/story.html?id=24a9cf48-d129-4019-9986-ddf8e1c4b58d

Quote:
Buchholz, executive vice-president of Lufthansa Group's fleet management, said that some of the CSeries delay "was actually customer-based."
"We pushed Bombardier to make some modifications which we all agreed made the airplane better and more effective. They listened."
Lufthansa was one of the airlines pushing for more seats, "a more optimal utilization of space available in an aircraft."



What the...?
User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6250 posts, RR: 34
Reply 168, posted (4 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 13643 times:

Quoting YXwatcherMKE (Reply 165):
Then just exactly was the reason for the delay in the a/c first flight?

The main reason for the delay... and BBD was telgraphing this before their first missed deadline... is the FBW.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 167):
Actually, the stretch to the CS300 did contribute to the first flight delay of the CS100. The overwing exits weren't the only changes required and there were mods made to the CS100 to maintain fleet commonality.

The stretch did not...

Quote:
"Arcamone said that a recent customer, airBaltic, asked for a 148-seat CSeries."

The airBaltic deal was signed a few months after FTV1's centre fuse was already in assembly in Mirabel. In other words, the build of FTV1 was started many months earlier in Belfast and the design was over a year prior. Moreover, BBD was still insisting that first flight was still scheduled by end of 2012 at the time of the airBaltic deal.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5476 posts, RR: 30
Reply 169, posted (4 months 4 days ago) and read 13499 times:

Quoting planemaker (Reply 168):

Uh huh...Air Baltic's original order was for the original length CS300....in July 2012, which had a maximum capacity of 145 seats. They upsized when the longer variant became the only option...which happened when Air Asia was pretending to be considering buying the CS300. The stretched version wasn't even announced until just before the official unveiling of the CSeries, in March 2013.

AirBaltic didn't finalize the deal until Dec 2013.

http://www.airlinesanddestinations.c...veals-cs300-now-has-small-stretch/

The stretch came at the same time as the extra overwing exit, which allowed the capacity to rise to 160. AirBaltic is still putting 148 seats in theirs, but they have opted for the extra exit, which gives them the option of 160...something they didn't have in July 2012.

The fuse was modified to be fitted with the mods after it was aready under construction...hence the delay.

Not that any of this matterrs in the least in the real world. First flight happened long ago and pointing fingers just gets boring. It's like people harping on about A380 break even....ok, I guess, for a thought exercise but rather pointless to most....who have long since moved on.

[Edited 2014-06-23 20:57:45]


What the...?
User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6250 posts, RR: 34
Reply 170, posted (4 months 4 days ago) and read 13426 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 169):
The stretched version wasn't even announced until just before the official unveiling of the CSeries, in March 2013.

Therefore, it should be abundantly obvious that the stretch did not delay first flight since right up to October 2012 BBD was insisting that CS100 was still on track for first flight by end of 2012.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineSSTeve From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 722 posts, RR: 1
Reply 171, posted (4 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 13392 times:

Quoting planemaker (Reply 170):

Therefore, it should be abundantly obvious that the stretch did not delay first flight since right up to October 2012 BBD was insisting that CS100 was still on track for first flight by end of 2012.

You are correct, though I have to laugh at BBD "insisting." It was and often still is more like actively avoiding any and all opportunities to say anything at all.


User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6250 posts, RR: 34
Reply 172, posted (4 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 13381 times:

Quoting SSTeve (Reply 171):
It was and often still is more like actively avoiding any and all opportunities to say anything at all.

You can only hide so long before the truth becomes obvious to everyone. I think the delay announcement after the Paris Airshow (during which BBD "insisted" that FTV-1 was going to fly at the end of the month) was worse than the end of year 2012 delay.  



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineStTim From UK - England, joined Aug 2013, 807 posts, RR: 0
Reply 173, posted (4 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 13236 times:

I remember well the discussions about who would fly first Airbus with the A350 or Bombardier with the CS100.

Looking back it was not even a close race. the A350 is almost at certification and the CS100 cannot even make it to Farnbrough over a year later.


User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6250 posts, RR: 34
Reply 174, posted (4 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 12951 times:

Quoting StTim (Reply 173):
I remember well the discussions about who would fly first Airbus with the A350 or Bombardier with the CS100.

Looking back it was not even a close race. the A350 is almost at certification and the CS100 cannot even make it to Farnbrough over a year later.

I remember well the discussions about the CS100 making it to Paris. In the end, it will end up making Paris.  



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein