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Airbus Near A 150 Units Order In China?  
User currently offlinetitus95 From France, joined Feb 2009, 100 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 10644 times:
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http://fr.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idFRKBN0CA00720140319

As usual , at every President or Prime Minister of China visit in Europe , an Airbus order is signed.
This time a 150 units order is rumoured during the China's President in Europe at the end of this month.
A320 ,330 and 350 are rumoured in this order.
Will be interesting to see if the A320s will be ceo or neo. Perhaps the ceo orders are at the end of the road in China.

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinerheinwaldner From Switzerland, joined Jan 2008, 2245 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10357 times:

I think Airbus (and Boeing) is always near a 150 units order from China....

User currently offlineSASMD82 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 782 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10355 times:
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Quoting rheinwaldner (Reply 1):

I think Airbus (and Boeing) is always near a 150 units order from China....

Indeed. I wouldn't call this an astonishing order. Except of course when a nice nunch of WB aircraft are included (A380s please).


User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12515 posts, RR: 35
Reply 3, posted (7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10321 times:

Will many of these be built in Tianjin. What kind of production rate do they have there?

I see a lot of new Airbus A32Xs going to China (on Skyliner), but very few seem to be built in Tianjin - for example, B-1816, for Air China, an A321 delivered yesterday from XFW.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12074 posts, RR: 34
Reply 4, posted (7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10276 times:

Story in English:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...-group-china-idUSBREA2I06E20140319

> At least 150 jets, final number depends on last-minute talks
> The deal could also include "some" A320 and A350 aircraft
> It would suggest the deal is mainly all about A330s
> A330 cabin completion center in Tianjin will be Airbus's second major factory in the country
> The deal is expected to be signed at the end of this month



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinepugman211 From UK - England, joined Dec 2012, 107 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10210 times:

A321's are built in Hamburg, and the FALC are now building A320's and A319's.

User currently offlinegarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2686 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10184 times:

Is it just me that finds these order from China boring now?

Each gets a good order, depending on how the Chinese government feel towards either the US or Europe... So there is no real "fight" for the orders here.



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User currently offlinephoenixVIP From China, joined Mar 2014, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10050 times:

The important thing here is to understand how many A330 Regionals are part of this order. The number of times I have flown the major routes for business, including PEK-SHA, PEK-CAN, PEK-HKG, PEK-SZX, PEK-CTU etc show the need to for widebodies to operate them. Naturally Boeing can offer 777s and 787s for these routes but a specific designed widebody for regional routes is different as Boeing don't have one yet.

I cannot see the Chinese market absorbing more than one hundred widebodies over the next 5 years anyway. Yes incomes are rising and people are taking planes more. We need widebodies for dense routes but not at such high amount. A320s and 737s are still the most important backbone for our domestic services for the foreseeable future I am sure.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12074 posts, RR: 34
Reply 8, posted (7 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10036 times:

Quoting phoenixVIP (Reply 7):
Naturally Boeing can offer 777s and 787s for these routes but a specific designed widebody for regional routes is different as Boeing don't have one yet.

More important, Boeing nor Airbus can deliver 100+ 787 or A350 aircraft before the end of the decade as everything is booked out. The A330 on the other hand is available.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineCrimsonChin From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2014, 182 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 9826 times:

Interesting if the A350 is part of the deal, as according to some member's "logic", China would skip the A350 because they ordered the A320 the last time

Quoting garpd (Reply 6):

Pretty sure the parties that matter here the most and who benefit directly from this would gladly have China place one of thde "boring" orders every month.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12074 posts, RR: 34
Reply 10, posted (7 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9798 times:

Quoting CrimsonChin (Reply 9):
China would skip the A350 because they ordered the A320 the last time

Well, Air China ordered 10 A350s in 2010.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinefrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1637 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9665 times:

Quoting phoenixVIP (Reply 7):
Naturally Boeing can offer 777s and 787s for these routes but a specific designed widebody for regional routes is different as Boeing don't have one yet.

Strictly speaking, the A330R isn't a regional jet either. It's a medium haul aircraft, improved along the years becoming medium-long haul, and now derated for shorter hops.

The non-ER 777-300 was meant for medium haul as well, but China never ordered them. I can see a possibility for the 787-10 being used as domestic widebody in China, depending on how the A330R will be configured. If it has round 440 seats, I don't think the 787-10 will be very useful as it also has an exit limit of 440 pax.



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User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4800 posts, RR: 40
Reply 12, posted (7 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9551 times:
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Quoting titus95 (Thread starter):
This time a 150 units order is rumoured during the China's President in Europe at the end of this month.
A320 ,330 and 350 are rumoured in this order.

If signed this is of course a very significant order. Especially if the emphasis is mainly the A330.  .

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 8):
The A330 on the other hand is available.

Availability is always a very important factor which is quite often underrated. This order could be the bridge for Airbus to launch the A330-neo if they wish so, and if the market analysis supports the decision for the launch.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31097 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (7 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9523 times:
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So this sounds like a confirmation of the actual number of A330s (150) from the previous announcement of "at least 70 and up to 200" that China was preparing to order.

User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4800 posts, RR: 40
Reply 14, posted (7 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9498 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):
So this sounds like a confirmation of the actual number of A330s (150) from the previous announcement of "at least 70 and up to 200" that China was preparing to order.

It does indeed. But the number of 150 jets could also incorporate some smaller aircraft (A32X-neo) and some larger aircraft (A350-XWB).


User currently offlineSASMD82 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 782 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8962 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):
So this sounds like a confirmation of the actual number of A330s (150) from the previous announcement of "at least 70 and up to 200" that China was preparing to order.

Now that I would call an astonishing blowing-ass order!!!  


User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 8562 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 3):
Will many of these be built in Tianjin. What kind of production rate do they have there?

It makes me laugh that when China buys something from us it's made in their own country. When we buy from them it's made in their country. If we made all the things that China supply to us there wouldn't be unemployment in Europe.  

The trade relations between Europe and China baffle me. I can't work it out.


User currently offlinegarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2686 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (7 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 7799 times:

Quoting Babybus (Reply 16):
It makes me laugh that when China buys something from us it's made in their own country. When we buy from them it's made in their country. If we made all the things that China supply to us there wouldn't be unemployment in Europe.

"Russian components, American components.... ALL MADE IN TAIWAN! *CLONK* We go home now!"



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User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12074 posts, RR: 34
Reply 18, posted (7 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 7770 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 3):
What kind of production rate do they have there?

I believe Tianjin produces four A320s per month.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineTWA772LR From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 2184 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (7 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7285 times:

To what airline(s) will all these aircraft go?

Quoting garpd (Reply 17):
"Russian components, American components.... ALL MADE IN TAIWAN! *CLONK* We go home now!"

  



Go coogs! \n//
User currently offlinechiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5867 times:

Bloomberg now reports that it will be announced on March 26.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...er-for-at-least-100-jetliners.html


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6937 posts, RR: 63
Reply 21, posted (7 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5645 times:

Quoting chiad (Reply 20):
Bloomberg now reports that it will be announced on March 26.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...er-for-at-least-100-jetliners.html

It suggests 27 A330s (delayed because of the carbon emissions spat) and possibly some A350s.

Doesn't sound much like 70 - 200 A330s to me!  


User currently offlineIndia1 From India, joined Aug 2011, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5553 times:
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Quoting PM (Reply 21):
It suggests 27 A330s (delayed because of the carbon emissions spat) and possibly some A350s.

Doesn't sound much like 70 - 200 A330s to me!  


The way I read this and other related articles was that the 27 frames which were held up will also be "unfrozen" as part of the overall deal. So I am seeing a largish number of 330s with the inclusion of the earlier 27, to make it seem even more impressive.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12074 posts, RR: 34
Reply 23, posted (7 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5005 times:

You have to read is as "as many as 150 aircraft, including the 27 A330s frozen in the emissions spat".


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinekogge From Germany, joined Nov 2007, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4729 times:

I'm really awaiting what they will "sell" us next week during the chinese visit to France...

Of the "27 A330 frozen in the emission spat" 17 have already been booked by Airbus last year...

Looking at below list we could hear of more than 350 Airbus Orders from China without anything being really new....

A32X already Booked, but as "unnanounced customers": 180
100x A32X Air China/Shenzhen announced 5/13, booked 12/13 as UFO
020x A32neo booked as UFO 12/13, may be ICBC Lsg
060x A32X China Eastern announced 1/13, booked as UFO 12/12

A330 "frozen": about 27, 17 already booked
010 A333 China Southern, announced 1/13, but not booked
017 A330 booked under various Chinese airlines in 8/13 and 10/13 (but only one for CSN).

A32X reported by airlines, but not booked: >143
023x A32X Qingdao Airlines announced 9/13, not booked
030x A32X Spring Airlines, announced 11/13, not booked
020x A32X Zhejiang Loong announced 12/13, even press release by Airbus, but not booked
070x A32Xneo China Eastern announced 2/14, not booked, but 1st trade-in A300-600 already back in Europe
Plus reports about more A32X for Juneyao Airlines and Tibet Airlines

Plus...
042 A32X CASC announced spring 13 during visit of Hollande to China, not booked
018 A330 CASC announced spring 13 during visit of Hollande to China, not booked
Sum 60, probably already included somewhere above

total 350 +



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User currently offlinechiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (7 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4723 times:

Quoting PM (Reply 21):
Doesn't sound much like 70 - 200 A330s to me!
Quoting India1 (Reply 22):
You have to read is as "as many as 150 aircraft, including the 27 A330s frozen in the emissions spat".

  

Even the headlines states this:

"Airbus Seen Poised to Get China Order for 100 Airliners"


User currently offlineIndia1 From India, joined Aug 2011, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (7 months 5 days ago) and read 4544 times:
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Quoting kogge (Reply 24):
Of the "27 A330 frozen in the emission spat" 17 have already been booked by Airbus last year...

Umm, no. The best I know, they had 45 frames which they'd held up, of which they released 18 and so 27 remain as carried forward.


User currently onlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12623 posts, RR: 46
Reply 27, posted (7 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4176 times:
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Quoting India1 (Reply 26):
Umm, no. The best I know, they had 45 frames which they'd held up, of which they released 18 and so 27 remain as carried forward.

That's my understanding as well.   



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineIndia1 From India, joined Aug 2011, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (7 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4119 times:
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WSJ has put up this piece which is a possible dampener:

http://stream.wsj.com/story/latest-headlines/SS-2-63399/SS-2-485813/


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31097 posts, RR: 85
Reply 29, posted (7 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3823 times:
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Quoting India1 (Reply 28):
WSJ has put up this piece which is a possible dampener:

For those without access to the WSJ paywall, Google "EU Vote Raises Doubts Over Chinese Airbus Orders" to see the article.

The article notes that the environment commission of the European Parliament narrowly rejected a compromise agreement on the Emissions Trading Scheme that was more amenable to China, however the full EU Parliament can (and likely will) put it into law when they meet in full session on 3 April.

So I could see Chinese President Xi Jinping making this an MoU during his Official Visit to France next week and once the EU Parliament implements the change, CAAC would then firm the order. Or he signs it and if the EU Parliament fails to approve the compromise, CAAC just changes their mind (not like Airbus would risk enforcing the penalty clauses).

[Edited 2014-03-20 09:47:54]

User currently offlinechiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (6 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3153 times:

Quoting chiad (Reply 20):
Bloomberg now reports that it will be announced on March 26.

Today it's 26th of March. It will be interesting to see if there's any announcements coming up.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...er-for-at-least-100-jetliners.html


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12074 posts, RR: 34
Reply 31, posted (6 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2577 times:

Well, Airbus Group and China will sign a deal for 1,000 EC-175 helicopters today.

http://www.lesechos.fr/economie-poli...t-de-1-000-helicopteres-659632.php

Another deal for the commercial airplane department is expected as well, including the 70 NEO's for China Eastern Airlines.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineIndia1 From India, joined Aug 2011, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (6 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2142 times:
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First, and incomplete news trickling in that they've announced new deals including "unblocking" of the 27 units. Stay tuned!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...china-airbus-idUSBREA2P1HZ20140326


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12074 posts, RR: 34
Reply 33, posted (6 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2090 times:

The Tianjin final assembly site is now secured until 2025 and it will build the A320neo from 2017.

The order breakdown is as follows:

> 43x A320
> 27x A330

Total: 70 aircraft

http://twitter.com/vguillermard
http://twitter.com/R_Wall

[edit]

Press release now online:

http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...their-partnership-into-the-future/

[Edited 2014-03-26 10:30:23]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineAsiaflyer From Singapore, joined May 2007, 1140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (6 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1965 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 33):
The Tianjin final assembly site is now secured until 2025 and it will build the A320neo from 2017.

Smaller order than rumored, but no agreement on A330 plant in China either.
Hopefully there will be more to come later this year on that.



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User currently offlinechiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (6 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1904 times:

A huge order even though it was not quite 150 A330s.
Also the news release from Airbus switches between commitments and order.


User currently offlineart From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 36, posted (6 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1819 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 18):
Quoting kaitak (Reply 3):What kind of production rate do they have there?

I believe Tianjin produces four A320s per month.

IIRC it was designed with a view to allowing assembly capacity to increase to 8 per month.


User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4800 posts, RR: 40
Reply 37, posted (6 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1841 times:
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Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 34):
Smaller order than rumored,

Indeed, but still 70 planes including 27 WB-A330's is quite a good number.

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 34):
but no agreement on A330 plant in China either.
Hopefully there will be more to come later this year on that.

Maybe the "remaining part of the order", if there still is one, could be done when more clarity will be available on the A330-plant in China?


User currently offlineAsiaflyer From Singapore, joined May 2007, 1140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (6 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1745 times:

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 37):
Maybe the "remaining part of the order", if there still is one, could be done when more clarity will be available on the A330-plant in China?


And also how interested China actually is to commit to a large enough number of A330R in exchange for Airbus to invest in the A330 line in China?



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User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12074 posts, RR: 34
Reply 39, posted (6 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1571 times:

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 34):
but no agreement on A330 plant in China either.

According to the press release: "Airbus and relevant Chinese parties will work towards demonstrating the interest of setting up a wide-body aircraft completion centre in China, which includes cooperation on wide-body cabin interiors with AVIC."

The completion centre deal is still in the works.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
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