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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 39  
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 84264 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Due to length part 38 was locked for further contributions. Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 39:

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 1 (by Longhornmaniac Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2 (by LipeGIG Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 3 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 7 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 8 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 11 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 16 (by SA7700 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17 (by 777ER Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 20 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 23 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26 (by SA7700 Mar 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27 (by SA7700 Mar 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 29 (by SA7700 Mar 16 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30 (by SA7700 Mar 16 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 16 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32 (by ManuCH Mar 17 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 17 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 34 (by SA7700 Mar 18 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35 (by SA7700 Mar 18 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 36 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 18 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37 (by SA7700 Mar 19 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 38 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 19 2014 in Civil Aviation)


**********************************************************************************************

**** ADDITIONAL NEWS REPORTS ****

MH370: search for missing Malaysia Airlines plane extended to southern Indian Ocean

Najib's full press statement on MH370

Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370: What we know so far

MISSING MH370: Timeline

Flight MH370: Police focus on pilots as search for airliner goes on - live updates

Flight MH370: New timeline casts doubt on pilot deception theory

MISSING MH370: ACARS cannot be disabled

MISSING MH370: Search for missing aircraft above politics: Hishamuddin


***********************************************************************************************


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**** Please make an effort to read through some of the threads, if possible the latest in the series, before adding your own comments and theories to the current, active thread on this issue. ****

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Enjoy the forums!

Regards and thanks for your co-operation,

SA7700


When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
252 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKIAS From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 83855 times:

Quote:
I do not expect the debris to be in the same location after 4+ days.


Not to mention the strong drift leading into the WA current. Search area in magenta.

http://i.imgur.com/cJqPJP9.jpg



"We fly, but we have not 'conquered' the air. When we presume mastery, we are often startled by our ignorance." - DHW
User currently offlinechaseus1 From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 83681 times:

We have to remember they don't just release their best photos to benefit us.

For me, the most telling thing is the location.... it matches the ping data very well.

So even if it whales for now (which I doubt because of correlating radar data, whic we only hear about), I feel the plane is around there.... close.

I think this is it.


User currently offlinelaxboeingman From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 579 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 83681 times:

Quoting KIAS (Reply 1):

Is the map indicating the current is moving northeast? Could that mean debris may eventually hit the beaches of Australia?



The real American classics: LAX and Boeing.
User currently offlinelaxboeingman From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 579 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 83483 times:

Quoting chaseus1 (Reply 2):
I think this is it.

I think that as well, but as I mentioned previously, I will not be 100 percent convinced until it is spotted by a human from a ship or a plane.



The real American classics: LAX and Boeing.
User currently offlinechaseus1 From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 83474 times:

Or catch one of those strong currents to the north... or east....

Let's hope they can find most of the floating debris right away.


User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6474 posts, RR: 32
Reply 6, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 83342 times:
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From what I can see in the images, the 24 meter one looks to me like a Galley/Toilette complex. Not much more can be deduced from that resolution. But the Australians are certainly not mobilizing they way they are just by going on those two images at that quality.

I really hope we get the ones with more quality, or pictures from the planes.


User currently offlinemonjonman From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 83156 times:

Could the tail of the aircraft float? Because I zoomed in on the photo 200% and I can see that the black marking could be the malaysian air symbol as seen on its tail and it fits scale wise to the leading edge dimension.

User currently offlineJimJupiter From Germany, joined Sep 2011, 252 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 82898 times:

Wow, some actual news this morning. I hope that this is the right track, and they can start a proper investigation soon. I feel for the families, but at least they now might find out what happened to those on board.

And I hope we don't have to read about sneaky Chinese or flying Twitter-fishes any more.  



One is born, one runs up bills, one dies.
User currently offlinegarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2697 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 82460 times:

Quoting monjonman (Reply 9):
Could the tail of the aircraft float?

Fairly improbable. The tail on the 777 is metal. If the rudder were to detach, that might float as it is a honeycomb structure with composite layers. Lots of trapped air.

[Edited 2014-03-20 01:14:59]


arpdesign.wordpress.com
User currently online77west From New Zealand, joined Jun 2009, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 82470 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 6):
From what I can see in the images, the 24 meter one looks to me like a Galley/Toilette complex. Not much more can be deduced from that resolution. But the Australians are certainly not mobilizing they way they are just by going on those two images at that quality.

What planes do you know of with a 24m galley, or toilet? The entire aircraft is only 63m long.


Quoting garpd (Reply 11):
Fairly improbably. The tail on the 777 is metal. If the rudder were to detach, that might float as it is a honeycomb structure with composite layers. Lots of trapped air.

The tail of the 777 is composite not metal.

[Edited 2014-03-20 05:38:49 by SA7700]


77West
User currently offlineLandSweetLand From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 81932 times:

Quoting monjonman (Reply 9):
Could the tail of the aircraft float?

I was wondering if it's the tail section too. It looks like there's three skinny bits coming off the end (towards the bottom side of the image).


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17118 posts, RR: 66
Reply 12, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 81972 times:

Not a mod, but I think it is good to have a trail.

Quoting UA444 (Reply 8):
39 threads. Is this an A.net record?

Without a doubt.

Quoting 77west (Reply 13):

Quoting garpd (Reply 11):
Fairly improbably. The tail on the 777 is metal. If the rudder were to detach, that might float as it is a honeycomb structure with composite layers. Lots of trapped air.

The tail of the 777 is composite not metal.

Indeed. It could float either way though. Boeing didn't build it to be heavy so there are likely a lot of air spaces inside.

[Edited 2014-03-20 03:58:04 by SA7700]


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently online77west From New Zealand, joined Jun 2009, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 81818 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 13):
Indeed. It could float either way though. Boeing didn't build it to be heavy so there are likely a lot of air spaces inside.

Quite true. Even metal can float given the right conditions. IE Buoyancy.



77West
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6474 posts, RR: 32
Reply 14, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 81613 times:
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Quoting 77west (Reply 10):
What planes do you know of with a 24m galley, or toilet? The entire aircraft is only 63m long.

The key word in my post, of course being "complex." Implying toilettes, galleys and more.

I´ll be open to any suggestions you can provide on the images.


User currently offlineKIAS From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 81413 times:

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 3):
Is the map indicating the current is moving northeast? Could that mean debris may eventually hit the beaches of Australia?

Not sure, but I believe it would take quite a while for debris to travel that distance. From what I understand, the current movement is somewhat circular for objects within a certain area, despite the general direction of the current.

Here is a good (rather in-depth) read about forecasting ocean drift and how it relates to SAR: http://met.no/Forskning/Vare_forsker...ckett/filestore/Chap23-Hackett.pdf

Quoting monjonman (Reply 9):
Could the tail of the aircraft float?

Possibly? The majority of the 777 is aluminum alloy, however the fin and stabilizers are made from toughened matrix CFRP (carbon fiber reinforced polymer). Density depends on the laminant and I'm not sure how that compares to salt water, and if/how if may have broke off, whether it absorbed water and sank...



"We fly, but we have not 'conquered' the air. When we presume mastery, we are often startled by our ignorance." - DHW
User currently offlineliquidair From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 186 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 81521 times:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26659583

great updates on the debris...

CCTV News tweets: #US P-8 has arrived in Indian Ocean area; US 7th Fleet spokesperson confirms they have located the debris identified by #Australia. #MH370

we'll know very shortly if this is a part of the plane....

i hope its not- my heart goes out to the families. I still nurtured the notion the passengers were hostages...


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17118 posts, RR: 66
Reply 17, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 80902 times:

Quoting 77west (Reply 14):

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 13):
Indeed. It could float either way though. Boeing didn't build it to be heavy so there are likely a lot of air spaces inside.

Quite true. Even metal can float given the right conditions. IE Buoyancy.

For example, you know, a metal cruise liner. 



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4030 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 80881 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 15):
The key word in my post, of course being "complex." Implying toilettes, galleys and more.

I´ll be open to any suggestions you can provide on the images.

I would like to refer you and the rest of the pack to post 237 of the previous thread by a.netter "ERJ135":

Quoting ERJ135:
am unable to give sources or any other information, however I am looking at a hard copy of the satellite imagery which clearly shows the two pieces of debris.
The larger one at 24 metres is definitely a part of an aircraft wing, if it is the 777 we are looking for it would be from the engine pylon to the tip. The other part is harder to tell what it is.
The credible information is that it was found at the extreme fuel range of the aircraft off the West coast of Australia near Perth. The theory of a Helios type tragedy is now most likely but is still speculation.


User currently offlineNav30 From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 492 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 80576 times:
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Whatever else this business turns out to be, locating the wreckage (if that's what has happened) represents a truly marvellous achievement by the air forces and navies involved.

User currently onlinetravelhound From Australia, joined May 2008, 967 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 80614 times:

Remember these images were taken on the 16 March, so 4 days has passed since they were taken.

At the AMSA news conference they mentioned evidence of a debris trail, so the two released images are only part of the information they have available.

I'd suggest this is looking fairly certain.


User currently offlinemonjonman From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 80587 times:

Quoting LandSweetLand (Reply 12):

Yep after looking at it again I am even more convinced that it is the vertical stabilizer in the image with it's leading edge to the left and the top of the tail is at the top of the photo.the symbol seems to be pointing at the correct angle to the leading edge as well.


User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6474 posts, RR: 32
Reply 22, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 80283 times:
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Quoting vfw614 (Reply 24):
I would like to refer you and the rest of the pack to post 237 of the previous thread by a.netter "ERJ135":

I read it, thank you. I also would like to refer you to my post on this thread:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 6):
I really hope we get the ones with more quality, or pictures from the planes.

He is probably looking at those images, not at the ones posted here. And my inference was made on those ones.


User currently offlineliquidair From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 186 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 79390 times:

CCTV News tweets: The pilot on US P-8: Radar hits seen not believed to be linked to objects identified by Australia.#Update #MH370


so... They've found different debris?


User currently offlineOgre727 From UK - England, joined Feb 2005, 723 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 81030 times:

According to a Chilean newspaper... Australian authorities have claimed the debris might not be related to flight MH370. Link only in Spanish sorry:

http://www.emol.com/noticias/interna...elacionadas-con-avion-perdido.html

To some people in the forum, could you please be so kind to keep this thread accident related only? asking for how many feet is 24 meters, or what acronyms stand for is ok... but easily googleable.

P.

[Edited 2014-03-20 01:57:04]

[Edited 2014-03-20 01:58:52]


Sigh
25 garpd : You learn something new every day!
26 liquidair : they're just relaying what was said by the Australians that until confirmed it may or may not be related... seems fairly logical to me.
27 77west : Quite a good example! And a famous liner demonstrated exactly what happens if said metal object loses this buoyancy effect.
28 timothy31388 : Or it could be a Submarine operating in the area? Malaysian press conference again at 1730 KUL time. We'll see what they have to say about this new d
29 laxboeingman : Thank you. Did they go to the area the debris was located on the day the picture was taken or did they go to an an area they anticipated the debris t
30 liquidair : I'm equally as confused by both tweets...
31 Mike89406 : Malaysian Press conference any minute now according to CNN and Twitter
32 dragon-wings : I don't know if the tail of the A330 is made of the same material as the 777, but when AF447 crashed in the Atlantic Ocean the tail was floating.
33 Post contains links Dalavia : Today's press conference is starting now. http://www.astroawani.com/videos/live But I can't get decent bandwidth - I hope someone else can watch it an
34 Speedbird128 : 5+ SAR aircraft deployed, multiple P3's and 1 P8 C130 been tasked to drop buoys to assist with drift calculations. 1 civil ship responding to requests
35 haynflyer : Nothing new. He is just reading what is already posted on many news sites.
36 Post contains links tomlee : Or even a concrete ship. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ushed-pieces-China-didnt-sink.html Basically anything can float if you displace enoug
37 theaviator380 : US P-8 has finished search in suspected area and have found nothing. This is on CCTV twitter, according to ABC news.
38 tomlee : Is there a link to said ABC news report.
39 nm2582 : Given the ocean current map posted in reply 1 of this thread, it seems like these debris would have had to originate hundreds of miles west of the loc
40 theaviator380 : Nope, I picked it from CCTV twitter page. They haven't quoted link either.
41 Post contains links Mortyman : It's a Norwegian ship that was originally going from South Africa towards Australia that has been redirected to the site. The Höegh St. Petersburg h
42 dragon-wings : CNN just said Australia P-3's couldn't find the debris because of the rain and low visibility in the area.
43 LH452 : Somebody posted a while back that the engine manufacturer had received a message from the aircraft of a normal landing. Has this been verified and if
44 flyingturtle : We are all very happy about INMARSAT. We're able to considerably narrow down the search area thanks to that geostationary thing up there. But do we ha
45 Speedbird128 : Thanks for the clarification!
46 tomlee : Well that is a lot different. Hopefully the weather can clear up enough for the search to work effectively.
47 tomlee : It flying there is pretty simple compared to general relativity. Why it flew there is another story. (Something the black boxes or wreckage/debris co
48 Post contains links CXfirst : http://www.bom.gov.au/australia/satellite/ Looking at this, seems to be a bit of weather. Not the easiest conditions. -CXfirst
49 theaviator380 : That's why I will be more pleased if they find CVR and FDR (Chances are bleak). Finding debris is ok, atleast it will confirm that plane has crashed
50 tomlee : Also AMSA has a twitter feed that appears to be a more direct and just as fast (for obvious reasons) than the news feeds. https://twitter.com/AMSA_New
51 keegd76 : Even if they can find the debris and get it on board they won't be able to identify it unless it has distinctive markings showing it belongs to 9M-MR
52 Mike89406 : Supposedly the area of interest is in the beginning of the Southern Ocean.
53 tomlee : I think they want a visual confirmation as if we assume they already have a radar hit getting another one doesn't confirm it still. (Well it would he
54 tomlee : Technically if the debris is retrieved material analysis could help build confidence in where it might have come from. Airplane debris is probably pr
55 Mortyman : Perhaps not, but it's about securing possible debris. If the items are as big as some has indicated, I Guess they will be able to find out atleast if
56 Post contains links and images MadameConcorde : I just picked this up from another forum. A banner on top of the page:: Flight crew combing southern Indian Ocean for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 get
57 garpd : If they were able to identify it as a piece from a 777, that would do. After all, how many 777s has gone missing lately?
58 loalq : Where are those P-8s being deployed from? It looks like a good 3hrs flight time away from Perth to the debris field. What is the operational range of
59 dragon-wings : CNN is saying they are flying from Perth.
60 na : If the debris is identified as belonging to an airliner, its from 9M-MRO. Where else should sizable airplane debris in this region come from?
61 keegd76 : To clarify, I meant that the crew of the Norwegian ship won't be able to tell what it is as they wouldn't have the necessary equipment to do an analy
62 theaviator380 : US Navy if I am not wrong but don't know their original base. Yes it's about 3 hrs from Perth and 5-6 hrs from Newzeland as their Air-force have sent
63 garpd : I know that, I was replying to keegd76's post.
64 slinky09 : One report said an RAAF base north of Perth, so I guess RAAF Base Pearce. Or they can photo it and have it examined by experts.
65 CXfirst : The US P-8 Poseidon arrived at RAAF Pearce (just north of Perth) 2 days ago. I'm assuming that is the aircraft being used. -CXfirst
66 keegd76 : Australian AP-3C's are based in RAAF Base Edinburgh, north of Adelaide. However they may be staging from RAAF Pearce outside Perth.
67 LTC8K6 : That is the same as the very first reports of this debris.
68 Post contains images Starlionblue : Touché, but to be fair the Titanic designers had cut a few corners on the watertight compartments front. Sure. And as soon as they've publicized the
69 Post contains links Finn350 : Here are the specs of P-8A Poseidon http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/def...-8SizedForPerformanceAndGrowth.pdf Wing Span: 123.6 ft (37.64 m) Height: 42
70 Post contains links and images MadameConcorde : The Chinese 'cargo ship', Hang Sheng 1, has been scribbling around the Australians' SAR area for about 3 days now. There have been frequent tracking
71 Starlionblue : 1. Turboprops are generally slower than turbofans, but they use less much fuel so they have better endurance.. 2. Once in the search area, the crew w
72 77west : Lets hope the -200 fuselage fares better. No matter the metal, Lithium, Uranium or anything in between, if it slams into the sea at speed it is likel
73 Mortyman : This is apparently the second time the Norwegian ship has been redirected to search for debris lately ...
74 Airvan00 : I believe they can shut down two of the four engines when they arrive on station.
75 tomlee : Actually solid lithium would float and if you had a very large chunk of it not only would it float really well it would be a blazing inferno which wo
76 77west : Boeing uses Lithium-Aluminium alloy for parts of its aircraft hence my choice of words.. Of course no one would use pure lithium, unless your air was
77 Finn350 : OK, thanks for the answers. P-8 can get faster to the target area, but remain stationed there only for 2-3 hours in this case.
78 77west : I don't know how long a P8 can stay on site, but it is basically a military version of a BBJ, so who know how many aux tanks etc it has. I simply thi
79 Finn350 : Boeing specs (quoted above) says 'Range: 1,200 nmi with 4 hr on station' and I understand the current target area is around 1,200 nmi from Perth, so
80 tomlee : True but I doubt uranium alloys are very common in plane parts. I'm sure you can make a solid metal ship out of pure lithium if you really wanted the
81 art : If the approximately 24 metre long phenomenon in the satellite image can be located and viewed from a ship I think it will be easy to identify it as
82 77west : Thanks Finn, that's great info. That implies a total range of 10-12 000 km. Which is what I expected . Not 16,000km. Only a 777-200LR based PX-XX cou
83 tomlee : Well lets just leave it at alloys of Li thru U would not float without an intact hull. But pure elements of certain metals (Li, Na, K) can easily flo
84 Razza74 : Not to mention the strong drift leading into the WA current. The West Australian Current does run North East but there is a counter current, The Leeu
85 YoungMans : Lat/Lon 51.55488 S / 92.59757 E Course/Speed 176.8 ° / 49.7 kn. This seems to be a strange cargo ship, zooming along at 49.7 knots. Maybe whatever t
86 na : No cargo ship can go that fast, not even the fastest destroyer can.
87 Post contains links scouseflyer : Strangley depleted Uranium is / was used in planes for trim weights (as it's really heavy) Depleted Uranium In Boeing 747? (by Bjornstrom May 17 2006
88 affirmative : Maybe not 16h but quite close. The BBJ has quite impressive range with all the aux tanks fitted. 13-14h endurance is in the ballpark I believe. Obvio
89 Gonzalo : I really really hope the search west of the Australian coast lead to something... I have a tremendous fear of hearing in the next press conference som
90 tomlee : Didn't know that, but I guess it is a good counterweight similar to lead. At least they had the mindset to phase that out to use something more norma
91 ltbewr : The possible discovery of debris of the MH370 lost aircraft are dominating the morning new here in the eastern USA, setting up another round hope as t
92 Starlionblue : The authorities have been rather cautious in their statements and have tried to manage expectations, but then again the media has been working hard t
93 Mouldypete : VAMPI I have tried to find this acronym in several Aviation glossaries without success. 777Jet used it in his excellent post reply 6 on thread 38 wher
94 art : Why would finding debris that was not part of the missing aircraft erase the credibility of the authorities?
95 imatams : Is a waypoint in de northern part of the strait of Malacca.
96 Gonzalo : Possible being the key word. There are too many media reports saying "the plane was finally located", and that is absolutely false for now, we still
97 Post contains links Starlionblue : You're probably going to kick yourself after you read this. VAMPI is not an acronym. Just like PIBOS and IGARI which are also mentioned it is a waypo
98 Post contains links LTC8K6 : VAMPI is a waypoint name. VAMPI IGARI IGREX etc. http://www.fallingrain.com/waypoint/MY/VAMPI.html
99 Post contains links Mortyman : The Norwegian ship Höegh St. Petersburg arrived at the position about an hour ago and is currently searching: http://www.dagbladet.no/2014/03/20/n...
100 Gonzalo : In the eyes of the families affected, I think that is a big possibility because they have expectations that could be disappointed one more time. You
101 nupogodi : I am wondering what leads you two to expect accurate AIS data from the middle of the Indian Ocean.
102 vfw614 : Problem is that the P8 on such a mission will not cruise at 40.000ft, but fly a search pattern skimming the waves, so to speak. Not exactly a fuel-sa
103 Mortyman : The search is deffinetly in different waters now ... Apparently the depths can be up to 4000 meters in this area ... Far from the shallow waters of th
104 LTC8K6 : Radio announcer here just said the debris is not from the plane. Not sure how they know already.
105 bond007 : Although apparently the P-8 has an endurance of up to 14 hours, so with it's it's faster speed (20% faster?), it will obviously get to a location qui
106 JimJupiter : Misunderstood US Navy reports?
107 liquidair : Jon Williams Foreign editor, ABC News tweets: Only things seen by US P-8 spotter searching for debris from #MH370, a freighter in remote area and two
108 zeke : Correct Correct, they have also been continuously deployed at Butterworth for 20 years, and a regular visitor to the Cocos Island. They have also bee
109 AirKorea : Below is what I wrote in March 15 in MH 370 PART 29. And my speculation turns out to be 100% right. --------------------------------------------------
110 StickShaker : Just watched an interview on the Australian ABC channel. The search area is near a ridge approx 2500m deep which gently tapers off at some distance t
111 Post contains images EI747SYDNEY : Crazy to think, but we are living out one of the biggest aviation mysteries ever. To think in this day and age we are still none the wiser to locating
112 trnswrld : What satellite images of debris is everyone talking about? I went through this entire thread and the previous one and saw nothing. Kinda surprised to
113 Post contains links Finn350 : http://www.amsa.gov.au/media/incidents/images/DIGO_00718_01_14.jpg http://www.amsa.gov.au/media/incidents/images/DIGO_00718_02_14.jpg
114 Post contains links and images buckrogers68 : As many other new posters have said, long time lurker.... I've been avoiding this thread for the last few days, but did read up to part 28 rather reli
115 Post contains images David L : The aircraft has not yet been found. When you made your prediction there was roughly a 50% chance that it would be found on the southern "arc" rather
116 rfields5421 : The composite material used in aircraft construction by Airbus, Boeing or any other company are not lighter than sea water for their volume. They wil
117 Post contains images SimonDanger : Quoting MadameConcord: The typical PLA-N "cargo" of antennas and electronics ? Yup, those Chinese. Very good listeners, they.
118 David L : Let me fix that for you:
119 art : Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that the underwater search grid for AF447 was 100km x 100km. I do not know how much of that grid was searched bef
120 laddb : Kudos to the AMSA for keeping the world updated with their twitter feed and web site.
121 theaviator380 : You are still not 100% correct, Also who told you Radar system in India, Middle east and central asia is poor?
122 Post contains images flyingturtle : It also goes the other way round, of course. Let's not forget the USN EP-3E Orion incident near Hainan Island. David
123 TruemanQLD : This has probably been discussed but who will handle the investigation IF the aircraft is found in the Australian search and rescue area? I would imag
124 Finn350 : A press conference in Oslo, Norway is about to begin regarding the Norwegian ship in the search operations. It is arranged by Höegh Autoliners, the v
125 Bronwyn : I still maintain they are heroes who were in an extreme situation...but given the issues Shah had with the government of Malaysia, if he was trying to
126 TheRedBAron : I don't think they are the missing plane debris, not trying to be a Debbie downer here, but USA has spy sat everywhere with very nice resolution...fin
127 Post contains links musang : The Nimrod also used to loiter on two engines. Regards - musang P.S. I haven't read all 38 previous threads - has this been referenced yet --- http:/
128 trnswrld : Well those satellite images are sure disappointing. They look nothing more than a couple waves and nothing different from any of the other water actio
129 flyingturtle : What would a crew do in a total failure of comms and nav equipment, with only the standby compass remaining? So no GPS, no INS, no VOR/DME/NDB, no VHF
130 LTC8K6 : It's unlikely, and it's been posted approximately one billion times.
131 Post contains links PanAmPaul : Based on the parties involved in what appears to be a fairly high-intensity search, I would say that there is a sincere belief that this is possibly M
132 Post contains links pstyl : You can watch the press conference (live) here right now: http://beta.dbtv.no/3365749946001#3365749946001 Looks like they're doing "limited" night-tim
133 Post contains links Mortyman : Indeed. The search is currently being suspended due to darkness, but will continue in the morning. Don't know if you People around the world can watc
134 Post contains links COOEE : I guess there will be boats there soon. Seems a Norwegian craft, a car carrier Hoegh St. Petersburg, is close and China is redirecting an Icebreaker u
135 akberc : Agree that most likely it was failure of comms in an unprecedented sequence. However, what else could the Malaysians have done? As the data poured in
136 keegd76 : While air accidents within a territorial boundary are handled by the country in which the accident occurred I think air accidents in international wa
137 Finn350 : Not much information in the Norwegian press conference: Höegh Autoliners received the request to participate in the search operation two days ago. Th
138 pstyl : Regarding the Norwegian press conference: interestingly, they say that they'll be the only vessel there tomorrow as well, so I imagine it'll be a whil
139 Mortyman : It has been said earlier that they are also using radar ( Don't know what kind ... Sonar ? )[Edited 2014-03-20 07:05:03]
140 DTW2HYD : P8-Is have mid-air refueling capability, it is not clear on P8-As. It appears some earlier builds may not have this capability.
141 Mir : I'm very disappointed that that's been getting as much traction as it has over the past few days (especially from Wired, who I thought was better tha
142 akberc : If the South Indian Ocean sighting turns out to be real, it would be an amazing piece of mathematical analysis by Inmarsat folks and others -- just go
143 Post contains links Mouldypete : I understood that the last confirmed radar position was at 2:15am and the heading was NW. Presumably this comment refers to the turn left to the Nort
144 keegd76 : Their sonar is probably limited to a depth sounder which wouldn't (AFAIK) be able to detect pings from the boxes.
145 na : Who knows, that´ll never come out. Its either inefficiency as you indicate, or that some state prefers to say nothing even if they could because the
146 COOEE : Sorry I ment to post this Url https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c6P42WxyPM&feature=player_embedded and point to the precedent set by Cypriot Helios
147 hivue : Sorry if this has been posted but I've looked high and low and haven't found it. Whose satellite made the images? I assume it was an Australian defens
148 XT6Wagon : I'm pretty sure its actual radar. Its not that expensive to equip a ship with it, and when you are talking about the value pretty much any commercial
149 Post contains links spacecadet : The pictures released so far look like empty containers that fell off a container ship to me. Obviously deformed from water impact, but this happens a
150 bikerthai : P-8A do have air to air refueling capability. Question is, is there tanker in the area to perform the function and whether the new P-8A have trained
151 Post contains links Finn350 : The copyright on the images is by DigitalGlobe. They seem to have a link to Tomnod crowdsourcing campaign. http://www.digitalglobe.com/ [Edited 2014-
152 Post contains links and images rcair1 : First a synopsis (dropped some old 'breaking news' items) Time-line (from CNN) ACARS ACARS data from MH370 ADS-C Tutorial (short). Way-point Entry Da
153 laddb : Containers are typically 40 ft long, or 12 meters.
154 Post contains images keegd76 : Strangely enough a container ship mentioned in the article sank in the Indian Ocean less than a year ago, the MOL Comfort. She went down off the coas
155 Post contains links bennett123 : http://uk.ask.com/wiki/Intermodal_container?lang=en Actually, they can be up to 56 feet. Looks like a freight container to me as well. Furthermore, th
156 DTW2HYD : The unclassified version is from Digital Globe, we will never know what authorities are using. Keep in mind standard imaging satellites are useless i
157 garpd : I still do not believe this was a fire event for these simple reasons: 1. A fire, unless explosive, would give the pilots time to issue a mayday. (Co
158 COOEE : Yes, na, all your analysis are so valid. But the time ( search) has has extended beyond any expectations of any survival. Having to fly such long rout
159 Post contains links keegd76 : HMS Echo, a Royal Navy survey ship is being sent to the area where the objects were spotted. She specialises in hydrographic and oceanographic data ga
160 Post contains links DrivesForShow : Map showing day/night in the world just to give an idea of how long until the search can begin again: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/sunearth.h
161 hivue : So perhaps the "objects" were first spotted with some top secret all-seeing defense satellite and then they went through Digital Globe's archives to
162 DeltaMD90 : Anyone correct me of I'm wrong, but I know of no procedure which directs a pilot to climb and try and put a fire out at a higher altitude with less o
163 zeke : I heard that somewhere before.
164 Tod : 777 floor panels are never close to being that long.
165 garpd : Echo? I was told Enterprise was going to be sent. Oh well, either way, good news. If there is anything down there, Echo should find it.
166 OldAeroGuy : Horizontal tail fuel tanks are not an option on the 777. No 777 is equipped with them.
167 ciaran : As it happened, What is also interesting is the amount of political maneuvering associated with this tragedy, Relations between Malaysia and China, th
168 tockeyhockey : it might be, but it's been floated here on airliners forums several times. in fact, there was an epic thread a while back where i posed the exact que
169 canoecarrier : 24m would be a large container. I initially thought it could be an abandoned sailboat that had capsized as well. A few years ago a young woman sailing
170 Finn350 : It might be that there are no other satellite images of these particular potential objects. I would assume that at least the US satellite imaging age
171 qf002 : For starters, there is no evidence at this stage to suggest that the transponder was selectively disabled. We know that some equipment was still func
172 DeltaMD90 : I don't know why people gave Israel such a hard time or made so much out of it. There was a lot of speculation and I'm sure a somewhat credible rumor
173 nupogodi : I should remind you all that there are commercial radar imaging satellites that can see in the dark and through cloud, though I don't know off the top
174 keegd76 : Accordingly to the RN website Enterprise is just completing trails and training after a 5-month refit which began in September 2013. Due to go back i
175 hivue : Or not come public at all, just pass the info quietly on to Australia as the lead SAR nation for the pertinent area for search? What I'm wondering is
176 Post contains images Pihero : Reasonability check : There were quite a few articles on this subject, one of the main bases for the *dastardly mass murdering crew* being in control,
177 jcxroberts : The US would never publish satellite data or images from Pine Gap or any other top secret sight, watered down or not. It's not going to happen. Like o
178 zeke : I would assume the climb observed on the radar was an issue with that equipment at the limit of its range, it is not uncommon with primary radar. In
179 garpd : Guess my friend got his wires crossed! Too many twists and turns. Just not likely, IMHO.
180 washingtonflyer : 45' high-cube is the biggest container you will see on a ocean vessel. APL tried to push 53' containers into the ocean cargo market, but failed. So, a
181 spacecadet : It would also be a large piece of a 777 to remain intact and floating this long. Both seem equally likely/unlikely just judging from the pictures. Ho
182 SimonDanger : What is also interesting is the amount of political maneuvering associated with this tragedy, Relations between Malaysia and China, the Tea party peop
183 cougar15 : Just guessing, but I don´t expect the Aussie PM is gonna make a monkey of himself! although is wording was VERY cautious, I do feel they have a cert
184 qf002 : It's likely, given the strength of the relationship, that Australia will have direct access to whatever resources the US can use to monitor this part
185 Post contains images hivue : Of course this could all just be a diversion to lull any hijackers holding the plane into complacency. (There, that's my first crazy wild speculation
186 nupogodi : If you ask Australians, they'll say it certainly wouldn't be the first time.
187 rj777 : But another big unknown is how well a 777 can withstand the impact against the water vs say a 767 or A330. Reason I say that is because this has not h
188 PanAm1971 : The public pics released are probably not the highest res pics the investigators have. From BBC News, "16:08: Leisha Chi, BBC News, Kuala Lumpur tweet
189 DeltaMD90 : It would depend how it impacted the water. The two accidents you mention are pretty different, so is the US A319 that went into the Hudson. Who knows
190 lucaspithan : Its hard to believe the MH370 would be there (where the government of Australia reported) without being noticed by any military radar. Even between Br
191 theaviator380 : If pilot suicide is likely to be cause of the crash, how did one pilot could have managed to keep other pilot out of the cockpit for so long? If pilot
192 DrivesForShow : Not to be math guy but a 45' cube would have a 77.942' (23.76 m) longest diagonal (the one running through the open space in the middle). Feel free t
193 theaviator380 : I guess Malaysian officials have mentioned already that they have got confidential Radar data provided by some country and they want to keep data and
194 asetiadi : I think FAA and Boeing and Airbus should work together to build a beacon locator on each plane that can be tracked anytime whether the plane is crash
195 Post contains links LTC8K6 : It's "high cube", not a 45' cube. As in "high cubic feet". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermodal_container#Specifications
196 laddb : They are not actually 45 ft cubes - that is just the name given to them. They are approx 8 ft x 8.5 ft. x 45 ft. The vast majority of containers are
197 65mustang : Only the pilots locked in the cockpit with a reinforced door have to be incapacitated. The state of the people in the cabin would be irrelevant with
198 theaviator380 : Absolutely makes sense, should able to reach aircraft even if it's sitting 15000feet below ocean. Does Dreamliner have that kind of GPS system? Cheer
199 LTC8K6 : IIRC, there is a plan for incapacitated pilots. Senior F/A's would be able to gain entry, I believe.
200 ComeAndGo : Only the refrigerated ones float. They're sealed and tend to bob around just under the surface. The refrigerated containers are usually of the smalle
201 Post contains links laddb : I finally found an image that shows the other satellite pings. Sorry if this was posted before. http://i.imgur.com/zNgnicG.png?1 Nevermind - those poi
202 Post contains links bikerthai : As an example . . . an container floated across the Pacific from Fukushima to the US west coast containing a Harley Davidson. http://www.nydailynews.
203 Finn350 : It was posted before, but only once (that I know of). The other satellite pings are educated guesses by the author, not the real ones.
204 nupogodi : The pilot could deny access. Only if they are truly incapacitated could the FA get in.
205 jetfuel : The weather in the area is very poor. Please be patient if it takes an extended time. Crews were not even able to see the ocean for much of today
206 rcair1 : This really excited me - but it is not what you think it is. For "pings" - the solid red is THE published ones. - the other 'pings' are estimates bas
207 LTC8K6 : Several theories have both pilots incapacitated. Plus, if the F/A is denied entry, and no one ever communicates, the F/A will know something is very
208 Kaiarahi : GPS signals do not propagate through water. Google communications with submarines and you'll get some idea of the difficulty (and cost) of communicat
209 tiong : Diego Garcia again... No commercial flight on the 8th of March and the next 3 days... Pure coincidence???? Laser weapon testing on the 8th...MH 370 al
210 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : Yeah I'm sure the US military used a laser all the way from Diego Garcia to shoot the transponder and ACARS, then somehow made the plane turn the way
211 LH526 : The B777 has axes and portable Oxygen masks on-board, given someone noticed and the cockpit acted suspiciously, these items could come in quite handy
212 marktci : Small nit to pick, "Canadian Islands" are not part of the US West Coast.
213 shortstack81 : Yes, it's coincidence. It's not exactly a destination.
214 Mitico12 : As said before, my theory is that this is all a diversion concocted by the international community to buy time to resolve the real issue which may be
215 studedave : It's not an airport- it's an air base!!! But wow- three whole days? When I was there we were lucky to see one flight a week... StudeDave
216 akberc : The tribal areas where Taliban dominate (not controlled in the strict sense) are under surveillance by US and Pakistani authorities at all times. In
217 davidzill : I'm still convinced the aircraft is in Pakistan, being geared up for phase II. What the satellite saw off Australia was the same stuff the Chinese sat
218 Post contains images bluesky73 : I said the same thing to someone at work earlier. This is a distraction as really there is something else going on. I think i have also been caught u
219 DeltaMD90 : do you realize how big the oceans are? They're absolutely massive. That area of the ocean isn't exactly very popular either...what actual evidence do
220 spacecadet : Why do you assume the other pilot was ever out of the cockpit?
221 akberc : Could you please postulate that into a viable theory of how the plane got there without Pakistani military and government co-operation?
222 captainstefan : Straight up not gonna happen, especially with such a high profile story. So I know we've already determined that the stabilizers are none by themselv
223 theaviator380 : Is it normal scenario that both pilots decide to commit suicide same time or do something freakish ? and if one wanted to commit it then is it not co
224 shortstack81 : There's very little sea or air traffic over this stretch of the Southern Ocean. Look at how wide it is. There's a reason it's said (although I don't k
225 Post contains links 727LOVER : Same place as this one? http://www.airliners.net/search/phot...ge=&thumbnails=&engine_version=6.0
226 Post contains images EI747SYDNEY : This is one of the epic Airliners threads! I wonder how many parts it will make up in the end Robbie
227 RJAF : Pakistan armed forces are quite well equipped and experienced - considering their volatile region. I don't believe a 777 would have slipped through!
228 hivue : No, "freakish" is not "normal."
229 cpw : This is a really important statement. As I look at a globe, it seems like there would be very little reason for anyone to be out in that area. A stra
230 capri : the worry is thar the plane was dealt with somewhere else and then was ferried shiped south and dump it there to look like it was a crash, this why is
231 Post contains links licnyc : Long-time lurker for 10 years. I decided today to finally join the community! My first post... Someone asked yesterday, in Part 37, In fact, Myanmar h
232 rc135x : No need for either pilot to be locked out of flight deck. Example: Pilot A says he's going to the lavatory and stands up behind pilot B who is now fl
233 DeltaMD90 : again, your theory uses a bunch of random assumptions and honestly, if this is the debris I think they found it very quickly. Again look at the ocean
234 capri : what I worry about is that someone or an entity will get away with this and we never know if it can be reproduced down the line again
235 skopsko : I doubt that is MH370 there in the South Indian Ocean. It just doesn't make sense they would travel there. They could have committed suicide long befo
236 Centre : Infinity: As long as speculation is the only constant fact we have on the ground. People love mysteries...And mysteries open the door for speculation
237 shortstack81 : If this happened, it'd be many, many more days until we saw staged wreckage appear. Ships are not very fast, even if said aircraft was chopped up on
238 11Bravo : It is astonishing to me that we continue to hear people engaging in wild conspiracy theories without one single bit of evidence. I think the standards
239 davidzill : If the aircraft did in fact impact the water in that approximate area, I wonder for how long the ones lucky enough to climb out of the fuselage and cl
240 canoecarrier : As you mention up thread, these aren't exactly highly traveled waters. That extremely large part of the Indian Ocean can see very little maritime tra
241 abba : As background checks are being carried out - as time goes by - the likelihood of a criminal act diminishes significantly. 1 If the pilots or other on
242 shortstack81 : i think it's likely, if this is the aircraft, they either died on impact or were dead long before hand.
243 DeltaMD90 : Everyone shares that concern but we aren't formulating theories with 0 evidence to back it up. China having it, Iran having it, the US shooting it do
244 jcxroberts : If it's off Austrailia then we are looking at fuselage breach/hypoxia or isolated fire as the most likely cause. Something which has been dismissed fa
245 Post contains links Stretch : Worth putting this up here again to show shipping traffic versus spotted debris. http://people.hofstra.edu/geotrans/e...1en/img/map_strategic_passages
246 LTC8K6 : Given the flight path, I can't understand how anyone can think it is hypoxia or fire. The flight path we have been given would have to be completely
247 capri : My theory is based simply on I never trusted politicians about what they say
248 COEWR787 : That is not what happened with Swissair 111 when it suffered from an electrical fire. It flew in weird directions before crashing. So why would one e
249 jcxroberts : Gradual hypoxia makes people do irrational things, and planes can be programmed. A feature of hypoxic crashes is that the planes fly off into oblivio
250 Boeing717200 : Not necessarily. In the fog of hypoxia or severe smoke inhalation, you get pretty desperate. With the mental confusion that can be brought on by both
251 KIAS : duplicate moved to next thread[Edited 2014-03-20 11:47:27]
252 Post contains links SA7700 : Due to length this thread will be locked for further contributions. All posts added after the thread lock will be removed for housekeeping purposes on
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