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11 International Airlines In Talks To Start MIA  
User currently offlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 1988 posts, RR: 52
Posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 23856 times:
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According to a letter sent to the Department of Homeland Security, requesting increased CBP staff. Apparently MIA is getting new international airlines. In the article it says 6 international airlines have confirmed to start MIA in 2014.

In addition MIA is currently at talks with 11 international airlines.

Currently MIA is awaiting 3 international airlines: Qatar Airways, Air Europa, Finnair and Jetairfly.
4 down. What could be the the other "confirmed" 2?


Also... What are the 11 possible international airlines do you think MIA is in talks with?

http://www.exmiami.org/index.php/ele...gin-new-international-flights-mia/

-Miami   

[Edited 2014-03-20 12:01:41]

[Edited 2014-03-20 12:02:45]

[Edited 2014-03-20 12:03:03]


Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
234 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinetoxtethogrady From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1422 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 23849 times:

This makes the third such thread - DFW's getting new carriers, IAH has four queued up, and now MIA has 11 awaiting better CBP facilities. I think some of those MIA carriers have already announced their intentions, and I would not be surprised if others are a possibility.

That said, Tel Aviv's got them all beat.


User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33195 posts, RR: 71
Reply 2, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 23794 times:

Quoting Miami (Thread starter):
Currently MIA is awaiting 3 international airlines: Qatar Airways, Air Europa, and Jetairfly.
3 down. What could be the the other "confirmed" 3?

Insel Air Aruba launches in April, Boliviana de Aviacion in May and Finnair in December; plus Canadian North just launched last month. Canadian North is operating seasonal Saturday service between Miami and Hamilton, Ontario.


Airlines that have had active talks with MIA include Royal Jordanian, Aer Lingus, Turkish Airlines, Emirates, Etihad, JAL, Cathay Pacific, Korean Air, El Al and Austrian Airlines. Of course, they aren't all going to rush here and serve MIA and even five years from now, we may only see two of them. Royal Jordanian is probably the most likely of them for being next.

[Edited 2014-03-20 11:57:36]

[Edited 2014-03-20 13:59:50 by SA7700]


a.
User currently offlinecrazyguineapig From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 23707 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 2):

I ditto all of the airlines mentioned in the active talks.

I would have said El Al, but now that AA is starting MIA-TLV in 2015 I felt like they wouldn't move in right after AA. Also, I'm wondering if TACA could be a candidate to serve MIA. Even a more far off guess of mine would be a north African carrier. Africa is pretty much unserved by MIA if my assumption is correct. I feel like if any African carrier would ever try MIA, a northern African airline would try first. Egyptair is not expanding at the moment, but what about Air Algerie or Royal Air Maroc?


User currently offlinejetblue1965 From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 2112 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 23508 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 2):
Cathay Pacific

MIA-HKG is 8990 sm great circle. Unless CX ordered the 777-8 and configure it in a low density seating, I can't imagine the talks will materialize into anything concrete.


User currently offlinetoxtethogrady From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1422 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 23361 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 2):
Airlines that have had active talks with MIA include Royal Jordanian, Aer Lingus, Turkish Airlines, Emirates, Etihad, JAL, Cathay Pacific, Korean Air, El Al and Austrian Airlines.

Of those, I'm pretty sure Royal Jordanian and Emirates are already in town.

My guess is Cathay may be more interested in Houston at the moment.


User currently offlinelucaspithan From Brazil, joined Feb 2010, 34 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 23318 times:

Gol is also planning. They already told they will fly GRU-CCS-MIA.

User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33195 posts, RR: 71
Reply 7, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 23319 times:

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 6):
MIA-HKG is 8990 sm great circle. Unless CX ordered the 777-8 and configure it in a low density seating, I can't imagine the talks will materialize into anything concrete.

It doesn't have to be non-stop.

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 7):

My guess is Cathay may be more interested in Houston at the moment.

Cathay probably isn't interested in Houston at all. Miami is a larger market to Hong Kong anyway. But Cathay to Miami isn't anything that is going to transpire this year, next year or the year after that. It's a long ways off, if ever; but it would likely happen sooner than Houston given Miami's strong economic ties to Hong Kong and position as a oneWorld hub.

Quoting lucaspithan (Reply 8):
Gol is also planning. They already told they will fly GRU-CCS-MIA.

Gol operates MIA-SDQ-GIG already.

[Edited 2014-03-20 12:32:18]


a.
User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 1011 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 23292 times:

Could Hainan (HU) be a dark horse candidate to serve MIA?

Quoting crazyguineapig (Reply 3):
I'm wondering if TACA could be a candidate to serve MIA.

TACA's been there for years SAL GUA and RTB - now flown on AV codes.


User currently offlineSkyBird77 From United States of America, joined Sep 2013, 92 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 23258 times:

Quoting Miami (Thread starter):
Currently MIA is awaiting 3 international airlines: Qatar Airways, Air Europa, Finnair and Jetairfly.

I thought Jetairfly was already here, or is it a different TUI company?

Quoting crazyguineapig (Reply 3):
I'm wondering if TACA could be a candidate to serve MIA.

Taca (now Avianca) has been flying here for decades.


User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33195 posts, RR: 71
Reply 10, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 23208 times:

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 10):
TACA's been there for years SAL GUA and RTB - now flown on AV codes.
Quoting SkyBird77 (Reply 11):

Taca (now Avianca) has been flying here for decades.

I think he meant TACV.

Quoting SkyBird77 (Reply 11):
I thought Jetairfly was already here, or is it a different TUI company?

Arkefly.



a.
User currently offlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 1988 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 23145 times:
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Quoting SkyBird77 (Reply 11):
I thought Jetairfly was already here, or is it a different TUI company?

That's ArkeFly.

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 7):
Of those, I'm pretty sure Royal Jordanian and Emirates are already in town.

Already in town? If you mean that they already serve there, then no. No they don't. Not yet at least.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 6):
MIA-HKG is 8990 sm great circle. Unless CX ordered the 777-8 and configure it in a low density seating, I can't imagine the talks will materialize into anything concrete.

Doesn't have to be nonstop. Can be HKG-YVR-MIA.

Quoting crazyguineapig (Reply 3):
I'm wondering if TACA could be a candidate to serve MIA.

TACA (Now Avianca) has been flying to MIA for years.

-Miami



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlineSkyBird77 From United States of America, joined Sep 2013, 92 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 23125 times:

I would be more excited if talks were with WN, B6, NK, or VX. I know it will most likely never happen!  
Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 10):
TACA's been there for years SAL GUA and RTB - now flown on AV codes

Don't forget SAP and MGA! And, not too long ago, SJO and TGU.

[Edited 2014-03-20 12:52:20]

User currently offlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 1988 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 23127 times:
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Here's another story, right here on airliners.net!
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-articles/read.main?id=163



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlineFastphilly From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 208 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 22958 times:

A HKG flight out of MIA isn't happening. OW alliance or not. With AA starting DFW-HKG on a 77W they will utilize every means to fill that plane which includes connecting passengers from MIA. DFW is slowly being used as AA's TPAC gateway and can easily absorb the PDEW that Miami gernerates to Asia.

CX to MIA and even to DFW now with the AA flight is a pipe dream.


User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33195 posts, RR: 71
Reply 15, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 22945 times:

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 16):
CX to MIA and even to DFW now with the AA flight is a pipe dream.

It's no pipe dream. It isn't happening anytime soon, but it is absolutely realistic to think Cathay will be flying to Miami and/or Dallas by decade's end. The market isn't going anywhere than up, and nowhere is the Asia market growing faster than from Florida, Texas, Georgia and the Southeast in general.

[Edited 2014-03-20 13:08:44]


a.
User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8171 posts, RR: 54
Reply 16, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 22645 times:

Quoting SkyBird77 (Reply 11):
I thought Jetairfly was already here, or is it a different TUI company?

If they're not there yet, get ready cos they're coming - I am meeting my buddy off his flight from Brussels at MIA arrivals at midday on Monday 19 May. Nice times, I like an early North American arrival - this one leaves BRU at 0700 (admittedly painful) and lands at MIA at 1200. Aircraft is 767-300ER. Not sure of return times but I presume it leaves mid afternoon and gets into Brussels at a very early time (like 0520 or something).



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7859 posts, RR: 19
Reply 17, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 22180 times:

JL would have a hard time operating out of MIA. Their planes won't have the kahunas to make it to MIA without having to take a load hit.


我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8577 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 22177 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 15):

It's no pipe dream. It isn't happening anytime soon, but it is absolutely realistic to think Cathay will be flying to Miami and/or Dallas by decade's end. The market isn't going anywhere than up, and nowhere is the Asia market growing faster than from Florida, Texas, Georgia and the Southeast in general.

Absolutely. Also, in regards to range, let's wait and see what the A359 will bring. CX has a few of those on order. MIA-HKG is already in the range of the A359. If It beats expectations this could become a viable route.


User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33195 posts, RR: 71
Reply 19, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 22098 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 18):
JL would have a hard time operating out of MIA. Their planes won't have the kahunas to make it to MIA without having to take a load hit.

A 788 or 77W are not going to have any problems.



a.
User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1623 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 21950 times:

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 4):
MIA-HKG is 8990 sm great circle. Unless CX ordered the 777-8 and configure it in a low density seating, I can't imagine the talks will materialize into anything concrete.

How much demand is there for MIA-HKG? I just don't see the two cities having much in common in terms of business or even leisure.


User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 1011 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 21811 times:

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 22):

Its OW hub-to-hub regardless of traffic which I know Mah4546 mentioned as being high yielding though not super big (2011 was 30 PDEW)

MNL is a larger market from MIA though.


User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33195 posts, RR: 71
Reply 22, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 21620 times:

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 21):
How much demand is there for MIA-HKG? I just don't see the two cities having much in common in terms of business or even leisure.

It's approaching 40 PDEW this year, and growing at an healthy rate, with very high average fares. The two cities have strong ties in real estate development, trade/shipping and finance (specifically private wealth), and Miami is the main Americas base for Swire Group and HSBC's Latin American headquarters.



a.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25871 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 21583 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 2):
plus Canadian North just launched last month. Canadian North is operating seasonal Saturday service between Miami and Hamilton, Ontario.

Isn't that a charter? I thought we were talking about scheduled services. Canadian North doesn't include MIA as a destination bookable in their website and those flights don't seem to appear on other schedule sites.


User currently offlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 1988 posts, RR: 52
Reply 24, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 21377 times:
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Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 23):

Yep, it's a charter. Mainly to fly passengers for cruises



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
25 SkyBird77 : Thanks for the clarification. I knew it was one of the "Fly's" Any chance of one of their new 787-8's in the very near future? I've seen them (flight
26 difrano789 : With the current Venezuelan goverment i doubt the DOT will approve any new link between Venezuela and USA until US Airlines get approval for they new
27 Mah4546 : Did not even get that far. Venezuela rejected Gol's applicaton, and Gol flies via SDQ, instead.
28 seabosdca : NRT is probably too long for the 788 with a good load, particularly JAL's early 788s. The 789 or 77W should be fine. The only current or planned airc
29 Post contains images Miami : I wonder how long of a flight is HKG-MIA nonstop.
30 miaintl : Is there a chance TK startS MIA sometime next year? I remember TK expressing interest in MIA.
31 PHX787 : Maybe the 789. The 77W can make it, but filling a 77W of JL's configuration is probably not going to work. I agree, HKG could work with the 778 I bel
32 Mah4546 : A fully loaded 787-8 has a range just over 9,000 miles. I don't get how it doesn't make MIANRT absent some sort runway/climate restrictions at Narita
33 jcwr56 : Interesting, but MIA is not the only City that been asking for additional CBP officers. LAX JFK ORD Anyone else needs staffing..... CBP should start l
34 Post contains images Miami : HKG-MIA will be about 400 mi more. If ever happens, will become World's longest flight. Sure. Why not? We may see an announcement late this year. Can
35 jfk777 : IF Miami gets to an Asian nonstop it should be to Tokyo but AA or JAL don't seem to have plans for such a flight. Korean could fly from Seoul nonstop
36 shamrock604 : Aer Lingus state they are looking at adding another Florida destination for 2015. The source for this is an interview with the EI head of commercial o
37 Post contains images seabosdca : 7650 nm (8800 miles) is full 787-8 range in still air, and some of JL's frames have even less. MIA-NRT westbound is flying into winds the entire way,
38 OB1504 : Why inhibit commerce for their own failure to adequately staff?
39 Post contains images Miami : Has to be MIA. What other Florida airport would they use?! And no. It won't be FLL
40 SkyBird77 : Didn't TK once try MIA (I think it was maybe 10 years ago with A340's)? Or is my mind playing tricks on me? They can always use a 787-8 with a techni
41 seabosdca : I'd think it would be much cheaper and easier just to use a 787-9, which has longer range.
42 shamrock604 : EI are a primary airport user these days - the LCC days are over, now that they are a network airline again. Considering much of their passengers are
43 Post contains links trex8 : 9000 miles??? check their acaps page 27 http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/commercial/airports/acaps/787.pdf your payload would be @20 tons only!
44 Condor24 : Aer Lingus to Miami would be great. Pre flight customs would give great bonus for London & other Western Europe passengers to pre clear customs. A
45 miaintl : How large is the O&D between Miami and Dublin? Can the flight operate daily? How many times a week does EI fly to MCO?
46 shamrock604 : MIA's own numbers seem to suggest a 3 per week service on A330 is feasible - however, those numbers appear to date from before EI started heavily pus
47 Fastphilly : 40 PDEW? That is far less than half of what it would take to even consider a ULH flight from a station that has low domestic feed for westbound inter
48 Mah4546 : So the 787-8 is such a poor performer that with an 8800mi range it can't handle a 7400mi flight?
49 Fastphilly : JAL is still recovering from it's financial issues. They will not gamble at this point in time on a ULH route even if it's a 787 to a new / unproven
50 Mah4546 : JAL is in a JBA with American Airlines. It's not as much a gamble as you think. AA might very well operate the route under the JBA instead of JAL. Re
51 Fastphilly : It's a low yield VFR market to Asia compared to other US cities in the same tier. That's the point. JAL is not going to operate an ULH when filling t
52 TWACaptain : Where did you see that AA is starting MIA-TLV in 2015?
53 jcwr56 : Remember, you're dealing with the Government. They don't see it as success or failure just a task they have assigned but more importantly, what they
54 Miami : Load factors range from 83% to 85%. Japan-Florida O&D passenger traffic ranges between 118,000 and 143,000 annual passengers with 163,000 to 205,
55 Post contains links airbazar : But full load is not the same as profitable load. With high yield passengers an A359 ought to be abe to fly this route proftably. According to the fo
56 seabosdca : As I wrote, the westbound flight is into the wind the entire way (and it's hard to escape due to Miami's location). It will be over 8800 miles still-
57 dfwjim1 : How about extending the DFW-HKG flight to MIA? Would something like that work?
58 airbazar : That's because there isn't much wind to contend with. It's a polar route. Much like DXB-LAX, which is only 600nm shorter but flown with a plane that
59 seabosdca : Fair enough on the polar route point, but the latest A350-900 range number from Airbus is only 7750 nm (compared with 7980 nm for recent-build 777-30
60 Mah4546 : But it's not. It's average fares (nothing spectacular to Tokyo; but beyond markets like HKG and TPE do have very high average fares). We obviously ar
61 airbazar : You're right I'm probably thinking about the old 8500nm range. But back to the payload/range chart, it's a matter of how much payload the airline nee
62 miaintl : Does anyone know what the PDEW is between Miami and Doha? This route by QR would have to be a success before any other Asian carrier comes to MIA. If
63 LAXdude1023 : I dont think MIA-DOH even has 5 PDEW, but obviously the target market isnt simply MIA-DOH. Its MIA-India/Southeast Asia/South Asia/Middle East.
64 Mah4546 : MIA-DOH is around ~6 PDEW only. But it realistically will probably rocket to 30-40 PDEW within 2 years, as is common with new Middle East routes.
65 PHX787 : What about JL's new A350s? I don't think they could fill it though.
66 Mah4546 : Filling 300 seats won't be a problem. The market between Miami and Asia is large; much larger than many West Coast markets including Denver, Salt Lak
67 seabosdca : Range-wise, it would work fine. I'm skeptical about using anything bigger than a 787-9. I think even that is really too big but it's the smallest pla
68 jfk777 : Turkish did fly to Miami in the late 1990's until 2001 when they quit after 9/11. They flew A340-300's.
69 PHX787 : You see I am seeing very divergent opinions on MIA-Asia. Myself, I don't see it being profitable for JL. Remember guys....JL is not in the best econo
70 Mah4546 : It is the same exact thing. AA and JAL's trans-Pacific operations are merged. They share in risk, profit, losses, etc., etc. So if you think AA can d
71 Post contains images Fastphilly : JL pulled out of DFW due to financial issues. I'm sure DFW will see them back before MIA is even considered. No airline is stating ULH to a market wi
72 Mah4546 : JAL virtually operates to Dallas via the AA JBA. It might very well return to Dallas under the JBA and takeover an AA frequency to Narita. Again, JAL
73 Fastphilly : I a league with only JFK and LAX.? Your intercontinental routes out of Miami on par with ORD and SFO. Those international passenger numbers are big b
74 Mah4546 : You are very much underestimating the number of long-hauls Miami has to South America and the number of European cities with non-stops to Miami. MIA
75 Fastphilly : You underestimate SFO's traffic to China BIG TIME. Fact: SFO to Hong Kong 888,000 MIA to Sao Paulo 777,000 So either the aircraft is bigger on the SF
76 airbazar : Tell that to QR and EK. 60 PDEW is more than enough if you have connections at both ends which JL/CX/AA would have because these routes are connectin
77 PHX787 : Let me reiterate something here. JL is not in the best shape possible. BK did nothing for them. at all. now let me also say something as well: PDEW nu
78 airbazar : It didn't stop them from introducing BOS and SAN. BOS's incentives weren't that unusually good and MIA is only an extra 600nm.
79 adamh8297 : I think NRT-PHL is coming very I believe the BOS incentives will run out next month since it will be the 2 year anniversary of the service. Did JL ge
80 Mah4546 : I know perfectly well what I'm talking about. I did not include Hong Kong for obvious reasons - it has its own bilateral, its own entry requirements,
81 Viscount724 : But you are talking about traffic between the U.S. and China, and a significant number of passengers to/from mainland China connect via HKG.
82 Mah4546 : No, I was just talking about the number of weekly flights SFO-China (31 this summer) versus MIA-GRU (46).
83 Post contains links airbazar : Yes it did. The marketing component is part if the overal incentive package that every new airline gets. I don't think EK's incentives are any differ
84 Fastphilly : There are 35 weekly flights from SFO to China on foreign metal alone, after adding UA's China flights would put it WAY over 46 weekly flights. Hong K
85 Post contains links Miami : Great article/presentation about MIA and it's future. Including new international destinations. http://www.miami-airport.com/pdfdoc/...tate%20of%20the
86 LAXdude1023 : You're numbers are WAY off. SFO to Hong Kong is around 400,000 annual passenger. MIA to GRU is around 450,000 passengers.
87 Fastphilly : I should have said between both markets in both directions total. My source was Wiki.
88 Fastphilly : Wow!! Eastern may be resurrected! My trip in September will be to both Washington DC and Miami. I'm looking forward to do some plane spotting at both
89 LAXdude1023 : The numbers I gave were both directions as well. Perhaps you were talking about total capacity and not O&D?
90 Mah4546 : I'm not trying anything. HKG is not China. My facts are correct. When Cathay Pacific is allowed to fly between Shangahi and Beijing, or when an Ameri
91 jfk777 : Miami has more airlines since they cater to the "Latin " Market they have all the "Latin" oriented Euro airlines, IBeria and TAP. Neither TAP or IB f
92 adamh8297 : So this should be held against MIA? Non-Latin airlines Finnair,Transaero, Aeroflot and Air Berlin serve MIA and not SFO. MIA offers a lot more than a
93 Fastphilly : Aer Lingus also fly's to SFO and not MIA. I would have thought a OW carrier like EI would start MIA before returning to SFO. Whatever the case, a west
94 Miami : 1st of all EI existed OneWorld years ago.... 2nd of all EI's CEO said he'll be looking at another Florida airport for 2015. Most likely MIA. Don't fo
95 Post contains images Fastphilly : We have EK though
96 s4popo : DL tried MIA-LHR and KL and MartinAir have both flown AMS in the past. EI is not a OW carrier.
97 Fastphilly : I think Arkefly flys MIA-AMS. They also fly to OAK but it's a seasonal route.
98 jfk777 : Your big news is " Miami has more links to South America then San Francisco" ? OF Coourse it does, this subject was more flights and more airlines to
99 Miami : We should get EK soon. I'm assuming. They do.
100 Mah4546 : AA has more daily Miami-Europe flights (six to five airports) than UA has SFO-Europe flights (four to three cities). Miami also has quite a bit more f
101 adamh8297 : Did you read what i wrote? I gave you examples of non-Latin/Romance language Euro carriers who serve MIA and not SFO. I did not even mention South Am
102 miaintl : Mark how is SU preforming on the MIA-SVO route? Is that route seeing any profits? Does it have full loads?
103 Post contains images RyanairGuru : I can't believe that people are seriously trying to argue including HKG in China. However much some people try and bend it to fit their arguments, HK
104 Fastphilly : I am talking on a global perspective. MIA has no flights to the Far East, no flights to Africa, no flights to Oceana and a ME flight that still needs
105 Fastphilly : Who is flying MIA-MXP?? American.[Edited 2014-03-22 23:16:55]
106 Mah4546 : Correct. American operates a daily, year-round flight between Miami and Milan Global perspective? No, you are being intentionally selective to try to
107 Post contains images airbazar : Actually, MIA will never have a TPAC route for the fact that any viable route between MIA and Asia will either be a TATL or polar route But on this t
108 miaintl : I have yet to here how SU is preforming in MIA. Will we ever se SU go daily to MIA? I know TP is flying to MIA 6x weekly this summer with the 343, so
109 Fastphilly : The flights from Russia to MIA are quite far. Do these Russian flights have a stop enroute to MIA?
110 MesaFlyGuy : . Nope, they're nonstop. SU uses an a330-200 and TransAero uses a 747-400.
111 Fastphilly : With the exception of Air Canada, Aeromexico and Avianca (El Salvador) every foreign carrier out of SFO is a long haul TPAC or TATL flight on a large
112 Fastphilly : MIA has an advantage of being close proximity to a region that has many carriers with limited fleets for expanded international growth on long haul ro
113 adamh8297 : Ask Pan Am how prestige worked out for them. You should also verify this with the AA bean counters smiling as they tally the profits from MIA/FLL-PAP
114 Fastphilly : It was a lot more than just MIA to South America that brought Pan Am to where it was. JFK to Europe, MIA to Latin America and SFO to Asia. All three
115 adamh8297 : You misunderstood me. Pan Am had to be the global airline and now they don't exist. I am willing to bet that the average airline executive, especiall
116 Mah4546 : Fine. Let's compare long-haul destinations (say 5h+ flight time). SFO: Amsterdam Auckland Beijing Chengdu Copenhagen Dubai Dublin Frankfurt Hong Kong
117 Fastphilly : LMAO!!! A five plus hour flight is a long haul. Oh my God .LOL!! Any flight over 9/10 hours is long haul. Any flight over 15 hours is ULH. Talk about
118 RyanairGuru : Delta will beg to differ ... including (ex) from SFO.
119 Fastphilly : Oops, forgot about Delta. That old NW route used a 747, DC-10 and finally an A330 before Delta took over with a 767. DL is pulling the flight within
120 A388 : So how many airlines will start scheduled service to MIA this year and next year? A388
121 Miami : This year: Qatar Airways, Finnair, JetairFly, Air Europa, Boliviana de Aviacion, and Insel Air Aruba. Next year. Great question. One can only tell. A
122 Mah4546 : MIA actually does have more long-haul flights than SFO. A significant amount more. You don't like that fact, not sure why. It's not even like it's a b
123 flymia : How about the daily (or 6w? IIRC) Air France A320? Prestigious enough to be counted as a "real" international flight? International is international.
124 SCL767 : Incorrect. Using distance as a metric to determine the longest flights to/from deep South America and MIA: 1. MIA-MVD-3878 nm 2. MIA-EZE-3829 nm 3. P
125 Post contains links Fastphilly : Not according to Flightaware. Duration is 8 hours 11 Minutes NORTHBOUND. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/L...0/history/20140325/0115Z/SCEL/KMIA No
126 Post contains images SCL767 : The routes that I have listed are indeed considered long-haul routes. Moot point! I'm sure you will consider the SCL-MIA route to be short-haul when
127 Fastphilly : Considered by who? There is over 200 flights that exceed 5,000 nm. A sub 4,000nm route is not long haul by todays standards. This isn't the 1970's an
128 Fastphilly : Umm, the discussion was long haul flights out of MIA, not SCL
129 adamh8297 : In some ways MIA is on a different level: the level of HKG SIN and ICN for regional coverage: In this case: Central America, South America and Caribb
130 Mah4546 : I'm looking at blocked times on OAG. The flight is blocked for 8h50m. You essentially don't like the fact that MIA has significantly more long-haul s
131 A388 : Guys, let's stop the whole discussion of what a long haul flight is and focus on the actual thread. I for one am interested in seeing whether EY and E
132 Miami : EK and EY will eventually have flights to MIA at the same time. Not now or at least for the next 10 years. I for one see EY coming first. But I have
133 LAXdude1023 : Fastphilly, you're argument seems to be that MIA is less international than SFO because the planes don't have to travel as far before reaching their d
134 Mah4546 : Ten years?!? If they are both flying to MIA within three to four years, nobody should be shocked. EK has made it's MIA intentions clear, and if ET co
135 Miami : EY*. Sure we can see EY but it depends on the lack of aircraft. They have 2 77L in their current fleet, and 3 more to come. Right now the 2 is being
136 Mah4546 : From who? It or EWR will probably be #10.
137 bagoldex : I'm not sure I see much point in discussing what constitutes a long haul flight or who has more of them. Yes, it appears that Miami has a greater numb
138 Post contains links and images airbazar : You'll find that it varies based on who you ask and on how different airlines categorize their service. Usually somewhere between 5+ and 7+ is the ge
139 Fastphilly : Fair anough and my opoligies for derailing the thread. MIA is a fine city and is one of US's crown jewels for international tourism. As far as EY or
140 jetblue1965 : MIA has a lot of 2-hour island-hopping services that are "international" but nothing close to long-haul. I guess the difference is that MIA may have
141 Mah4546 : Multiple daily flights to Montreal, Toronto, as well as Calgary, is "token?" Admittedly most of Miami's flights to Canada use FLL, but there are none
142 Viscount724 : Moscow-MIA is about 300 nm shorter than LAX which SU has been operating nonstop for years using various types including the 763 and currently the A33
143 Miami : MIA is supposedly getting service from RJ and AA to TLV
144 miaintl : How is SU preforming yields wise to MIA? Mark do you see QR goinf eventually daily to MIA in less than a year?[Edited 2014-03-24 18:52:20]
145 Miami : You ask to many questions... Lol. Qatar could go daily. With lots of connections to help. It should. SU yields to MIA are really good in the winter
146 flymia : They are still here right? Seems like things are going alright for them. Less than a year I doubt it. In a few years, sure maybe.
147 Fastphilly : I can see AA starting the TLV route because there is a significant Jewish population in MIA. BTW, why did LY cancel MIA? RJ is a bit more iffy especi
148 Miami : I believe because of the CAT 2. And for fuel prices. Not 100% sure. RJ wants to start MIA via VIE. So we'll have to wait and see how that goes.
149 miaintl : Fastphilly do you believe MIA can support at least one carrier to the Middle East? What are your predictions for the QR flight, do you believe the AA
150 adamh8297 : Mexico (primarily MEX), Colombia, and Central America are decent sized holes in the ME3 network that can easily be filled via MIA connections. I woul
151 LAXdude1023 : The real wild card will be to what degree QR stimulates the market. Right now, I think three carriers to MIA is out of the question in the short term
152 Mah4546 : It is not moot whatsoever. Panama City, Lima, Mexico City, Bogota and Caracas are major Latin American business centers with no Middle East connectio
153 Fastphilly : I believe the QR flight can make it on a bare bones schedule since it's OW. Even though MIA metro isn't known for having a large Muslim population (a
154 airbazar : Right but it makes little sense as a passenger to go all the way down to GRU to connect back up to places like LIM, BOG, CCS, PTY, and even northern
155 Mah4546 : The QR flight will be fine. You are underestimating how easily ME carriers stimulate the markets. When you take that fact, compared to the fact that
156 Fastphilly : Sounds good on paper, but what are the traffic numbers between Middle East and points in the Caribbean and South America?
157 Miami : It's been 7 years since the rumor started... But we won't see Air India anytime soon..
158 miaintl : Mark do you know if the Miami-Moscow market is high-yielding? Can you see SU go daily to Miami?
159 Fastphilly : I don't agree. Let me make some factual points: 1. As of 2010, the Indian population of the Miami metro area (pop. 5,500,000) was less than a tenth o
160 Post contains links Mah4546 : I'm not using population figures, I'm using MIDT air traffic statistics. But the O&D numbers really aren't as small as you think. They aren't hug
161 Fastphilly : I can understand the ME carriers offering better options to CGK/MNL with one stop connections, but when you dilute the small O&D pool between som
162 airbazar : The European carriers are being pushed out of whatever market they still compete in, in Asia (India/ME/Central Asia). For far too long they took that
163 Mah4546 : But the European carriers are getting pounded by the Middle Eastern carriers in virtually every U.S. market they enter. Why is Miami any different? A
164 miaintl : Can QR make money in low-yielding markets? Is it common for ME carriers to axe routes that dont preform well?
165 flymia : Some of your points are valid. The only flaw with them is you are just using population data. We are talking Air Traffic. There is their own data on
166 Fastphilly : The East coast markets are different than mine and yes you make a valid point because they will offer one stop service to the Philippines and Indones
167 Fastphilly : I can't speak about QR, but EK has been cutting non-profitable routes most recently to CRK.
168 Mah4546 : I'm not lumping stateside numbers. Those numbers are just for Miami.
169 Fastphilly : Even with that data it's not enough volume. Some of these MIA boosters really think two carriers vying for the same destination markets are going to
170 Fastphilly : LMAO!! 250 PDEW . Sorry not even close.
171 Miami : How do you know? Are you really calling him a liar? Last time I check LAXDude said your numbers were WAY off. I'm pretty sure he actually knows what
172 Fastphilly : For one, LAXDude hasn't commented on the PDEW's regarding Miami -India, Philippine, Indonesia bound passemgers. Second there is more to determining d
173 Fastphilly : If Miami is currently at 250 PDEW I can assure you EK, QR or EY would have jumped into the "Large Growing Market" years ago.
174 LAXdude1023 : Well, lets be fair. When Fastphilly was talking about SFO-HKG being a larger market than MIA-GRU, he was taking his numbers from wikipedia. The numbe
175 miaintl : Would a TK flight make sense out of MIA? Nobody has told me how SU is preforming so far. I suppose not well considering that it is only 2x weekly.[Edi
176 Jonathanxxxx : I can 100% believe there are plenty of passenger traffic between Miami and Indonesia, India, and the Phillipines. Maybe not 250, but it's pretty sign
177 kiramakora : Is it true that Miami Airport has now retained Intervistas Consulting Company for all their airline network analysis?
178 adamh8297 : Absolutely since you can connect in IST to Eastern Europe (Balkans, Ukraine, Secondary/Tertiary Russia) along with Middle East, Central Asia and Sout
179 Post contains links Mah4546 : So do I. PDEW numbers for 2013. It's from memory, so I absolutely may be off. You can even see the weaker PDEW numbers from 2011 here, which, again,
180 Miami : World region of passenger origin or destination Share of passengers Change, 2003–11 Latin America/Caribbean 66.8% +48.0% Western Europe 17.3% +30.1
181 AA767400 : This thread has become a childish cockfight. Fastphilly - You just won't stop. I'm surprised this thread has continued on for so long. In the end - ju
182 Fastphilly : But the basis for this to prove your point of multiple ME carriers serving MIA don't jive. When you split up a 180 PDEW between one point (MIA) to th
183 Fastphilly : Your a little late for that. It's been buried already.
184 miaintl : The question that everybody fails to ask, is not whether MIA can support 3 or 4 ME carriers, but whether it can support even ONE!
185 RyanairGuru : I think you've missed the point about 200%+ market stimulation. MAH is right about that, not only has it happened in MIA to LIS and MOW, but it happe
186 Miami : With ANA making it's biggest order. They have order 20 777-9X and additional 14 787-9. Making it now 80 787s for ANA. This is great for an expansion p
187 miaintl : Can MIA at least support one ME carrier? Is the market big enough for at least one? I think it would make more sense for RJ to come to MIA since it co
188 Byrdluvs747 : If NH starts the route first, what would happen if/when AA/JL(JV) starts the route? Oneworld has a hub on both ends and can provide connections to th
189 Fastphilly : ANA- Not A chance. No feed and their US business strategy leans heavy on large O&D markets with healthy premium yields. JL- Yeah someday it will.
190 airbazar : I can't believe anyone even has to ask this question. The obvious answer is yes. If ORD and BOS can, then MIA sure as hell can too. Why can the ME ca
191 Fastphilly : That is true of all carriers opening in a new market offering low fares to stimulate the demand, but the overall goal for ANY airline is retain an in
192 airbazar : They have competitive fares but they make a lot more profit on any fare than any other airline. Nonesense. EK does not get any fuel subsidies. They h
193 Fastphilly : Well since they aren't a publicly traded company we really can't say for sure. There is no way to confirm either way if their fuel costs are being su
194 Avibeast : MIA pretty much as the Latin American market covered.. Expansion into the Middle East seems ideal and perhaps into Far East Asia. I would say flights
195 Viscount724 : Also no personal income taxes which permits lower salaries with the same or higher take home pay than in most of the world where income tax rates are
196 Post contains images airbazar : They are not publicly traded but their earnings are made public. Near 40% of their costs are fuel, which comparable to every other airline. But this
197 LAXdude1023 : Wait, what? ORD and BOS to the Middle East/South Asia/Southeast Asia is MANY times larger than MIA to those same markets. With or without stimulation
198 Post contains images Fastphilly : 100% agree QR moving in at MIA has deep sixed any chance for an EK flight in the foreseeable future.[Edited 2014-03-29 01:26:49]. They won't have ade
199 airbazar : First of all, you're being selective. The question at hand was: Can MIA support ONE Middle East carrier? Those markets you selected are not the only
200 Miami : That's the problem. EK won't start MIA without a 77L. Now, as much of us already know. EK said that BOS needed a bigger aircraft soon. Must likely a
201 Mah4546 : You're going to be really upset when EK announces MIA then. It's fairly imminent and in the "forseeable future." EK has most recently tried to get ne
202 adamh8297 : Did they ask Mexico first? I believe they did not even file with DOT. Will EK still tag on MEX on this route or is it completely scrapped? Someone on
203 Mah4546 : EK would not need to file with DOT to fly MIA-MEX. Almost certainly will be served via Vienna to tap the Miami-Vienna market.
204 Post contains images airbazar : Which is why I said "by xmas" I believe that after the DXB runway work is completed, the BOS flight will be moved to a more desirable schedule, thus
205 miaintl : Mark do you see QR going daily to MIA? Does it not make much more sense for OS to fly MIA-VIE instead of RJ?
206 adamh8297 : If OS won't serve it, RJ may as well take advantage of it.
207 Fastphilly : Your "Forseeable Future" comments have been floating around on this forum for seven years and there have been numerous threads (started by you) over
208 adamh8297 : AA interlines with EK at JFK and last time i checked QR is at that airport as well. You are also forgetting some other airlines serving MIA that alre
209 Fastphilly : EK can survive at JFK without AA interline. Not the case at MIA. Two different markets that aren't even comparable. I don't know the details but with
210 Post contains images airbazar : Great, so some people will chose that route. It's great to have options. But I don't see PR winning the PR battle (no pun intended), against EK, beca
211 Mah4546 : If the MEB3 airlines didn't operate in a vacuum, then yes, two airlines likely could not coexist. But the reality is they do, in fact, operate in a va
212 Viscount724 : I was thinking more of pilots, mechanics, flight attendants etc. Many people from developed countries take jobs in the Gulf states because the lack o
213 miaintl : EK would be taking a huge risk and gamble in coming to MIA. It is already a huge gamble for QR, I am surprised so many people are convinced the QR rou
214 Post contains images MesaFlyGuy : OH MY GOSH!! A MIA-based member of A.nut that doesn't believe MIA can handle anything and everything in the world?! Now I've seen everything.
215 OB1504 : IAH, too, among others. I will take you up on that bet. AA has the joint venture with AY/BA/IB, but they still interline with AF/KL and LH/LX/OS, for
216 Miami : May someone give me strength. This man is up and down. Likes MIA, then doesn't like MIA. Sometimes he does sometimes he doesn't. I'm the biggest MIA
217 adamh8297 : Not just folks who live in MIA. Cruise ship employees from SE Asia which has been discussed already Upper class people from the Middle East who want
218 flymia : Read up on that users post. It won't be a huge surprise. All over the place and one I usually ignore these days. Exactly. Airlines just don't start m
219 Post contains images MesaFlyGuy : Exactly. Being a JFK fanboy, I'm always optimistic about the airport's abilities, but I know it's limitations. For instance, I'm not going around tou
220 Fastphilly : Spot on! That is the point I'm making. Sure QR will survive in MIA but these claims of EK coming in the near term has nearly zero chance
221 Post contains images Miami : I think the delay of EK arrival at MIA is because of QR. Emirates was getting rumors leaked and they kept mentioning that MIA would be soon/next or p
222 MesaFlyGuy : TK seems like it has a good chance. I honestly don't know how a 77E would do on ICN-MIA operationally. My gut says it doesn't have the range but I do
223 Post contains images airbazar : I have friends and family friends working for EK Pilots and flight attendants still cost EK less than they do at EU or American carriers. Actually, u
224 Post contains links and images RyanairGuru : Is this one not good enough for you View Large View MediumPhoto © Andreas Fietz
225 Post contains images MesaFlyGuy : I should've said nonstop! I always do that!
226 Post contains links and images Miami : Thing is, that I just realize that TK released plans for future destinations and MIA wasn't on it.
227 Post contains links and images Miami : I feel that Aer Lingus will start MIA in 2015. After all they are looking at another Florida destination for 2015? MIA is the only one. Since MCO is
228 Post contains links Miami : MIA got it's wish. Now let's bring in more airlines, shall we? MIA To Get More Passport Control Agents (by Miami Apr 1 2014 in Civil Aviation)
229 irishair98 : The only problem about EI coming to MIA which I'd love to see happen is all 7 A330's are all filled up with no extra a/c in 2014/2015 because of the
230 Miami : EI long haul fleet: A330-200 = 3 A330-300 = 4 A350-900 = 9 (After 2016) Maybe they can share an A330 from MCO? If I'm correct, MCO gets 3 weekly. Some
231 airbazar : They are also getting 3 752's which are replacing the A330 on existing routes.
232 irishair98 : 'Maybe they can share an A330 from MCO? If I'm correct, MCO gets 3 weekly. Something MIA should get. 3x for MCO, 3x MIA ? ' That's what I initially t
233 Miami : Well if that's the case, they should have a free A330. The 757 can go to JFK, BOS, and YYZ.
234 Post contains images Miami : Rumor has it that EK will upgrade DFW to a A380. You know what this means... A free 77L. For a new US Route...
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