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11 International Airlines In Talks To Start MIA  
User currently onlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 885 posts, RR: 42
Posted (4 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 23030 times:
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According to a letter sent to the Department of Homeland Security, requesting increased CBP staff. Apparently MIA is getting new international airlines. In the article it says 6 international airlines have confirmed to start MIA in 2014.

In addition MIA is currently at talks with 11 international airlines.

Currently MIA is awaiting 3 international airlines: Qatar Airways, Air Europa, Finnair and Jetairfly.
4 down. What could be the the other "confirmed" 2?


Also... What are the 11 possible international airlines do you think MIA is in talks with?

http://www.exmiami.org/index.php/ele...gin-new-international-flights-mia/

-Miami   

[Edited 2014-03-20 12:01:41]

[Edited 2014-03-20 12:02:45]

[Edited 2014-03-20 12:03:03]


Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
234 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinetoxtethogrady From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1199 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 23023 times:

This makes the third such thread - DFW's getting new carriers, IAH has four queued up, and now MIA has 11 awaiting better CBP facilities. I think some of those MIA carriers have already announced their intentions, and I would not be surprised if others are a possibility.

That said, Tel Aviv's got them all beat.


User currently onlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 2, posted (4 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 22968 times:

Quoting Miami (Thread starter):
Currently MIA is awaiting 3 international airlines: Qatar Airways, Air Europa, and Jetairfly.
3 down. What could be the the other "confirmed" 3?

Insel Air Aruba launches in April, Boliviana de Aviacion in May and Finnair in December; plus Canadian North just launched last month. Canadian North is operating seasonal Saturday service between Miami and Hamilton, Ontario.


Airlines that have had active talks with MIA include Royal Jordanian, Aer Lingus, Turkish Airlines, Emirates, Etihad, JAL, Cathay Pacific, Korean Air, El Al and Austrian Airlines. Of course, they aren't all going to rush here and serve MIA and even five years from now, we may only see two of them. Royal Jordanian is probably the most likely of them for being next.

[Edited 2014-03-20 11:57:36]

[Edited 2014-03-20 13:59:50 by SA7700]


a.
User currently offlinecrazyguineapig From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 64 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 22881 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 2):

I ditto all of the airlines mentioned in the active talks.

I would have said El Al, but now that AA is starting MIA-TLV in 2015 I felt like they wouldn't move in right after AA. Also, I'm wondering if TACA could be a candidate to serve MIA. Even a more far off guess of mine would be a north African carrier. Africa is pretty much unserved by MIA if my assumption is correct. I feel like if any African carrier would ever try MIA, a northern African airline would try first. Egyptair is not expanding at the moment, but what about Air Algerie or Royal Air Maroc?


User currently offlinejetblue1965 From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 974 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 22682 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 2):
Cathay Pacific

MIA-HKG is 8990 sm great circle. Unless CX ordered the 777-8 and configure it in a low density seating, I can't imagine the talks will materialize into anything concrete.


User currently offlinetoxtethogrady From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1199 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 22535 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 2):
Airlines that have had active talks with MIA include Royal Jordanian, Aer Lingus, Turkish Airlines, Emirates, Etihad, JAL, Cathay Pacific, Korean Air, El Al and Austrian Airlines.

Of those, I'm pretty sure Royal Jordanian and Emirates are already in town.

My guess is Cathay may be more interested in Houston at the moment.


User currently offlinelucaspithan From Brazil, joined Feb 2010, 34 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 22492 times:

Gol is also planning. They already told they will fly GRU-CCS-MIA.

User currently onlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 7, posted (4 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 22493 times:

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 6):
MIA-HKG is 8990 sm great circle. Unless CX ordered the 777-8 and configure it in a low density seating, I can't imagine the talks will materialize into anything concrete.

It doesn't have to be non-stop.

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 7):

My guess is Cathay may be more interested in Houston at the moment.

Cathay probably isn't interested in Houston at all. Miami is a larger market to Hong Kong anyway. But Cathay to Miami isn't anything that is going to transpire this year, next year or the year after that. It's a long ways off, if ever; but it would likely happen sooner than Houston given Miami's strong economic ties to Hong Kong and position as a oneWorld hub.

Quoting lucaspithan (Reply 8):
Gol is also planning. They already told they will fly GRU-CCS-MIA.

Gol operates MIA-SDQ-GIG already.

[Edited 2014-03-20 12:32:18]


a.
User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 22466 times:

Could Hainan (HU) be a dark horse candidate to serve MIA?

Quoting crazyguineapig (Reply 3):
I'm wondering if TACA could be a candidate to serve MIA.

TACA's been there for years SAL GUA and RTB - now flown on AV codes.


User currently offlineSkyBird77 From United States of America, joined Sep 2013, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 22432 times:

Quoting Miami (Thread starter):
Currently MIA is awaiting 3 international airlines: Qatar Airways, Air Europa, Finnair and Jetairfly.

I thought Jetairfly was already here, or is it a different TUI company?

Quoting crazyguineapig (Reply 3):
I'm wondering if TACA could be a candidate to serve MIA.

Taca (now Avianca) has been flying here for decades.


User currently onlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 10, posted (4 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 22382 times:

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 10):
TACA's been there for years SAL GUA and RTB - now flown on AV codes.
Quoting SkyBird77 (Reply 11):

Taca (now Avianca) has been flying here for decades.

I think he meant TACV.

Quoting SkyBird77 (Reply 11):
I thought Jetairfly was already here, or is it a different TUI company?

Arkefly.



a.
User currently onlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 885 posts, RR: 42
Reply 11, posted (4 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 22319 times:
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Quoting SkyBird77 (Reply 11):
I thought Jetairfly was already here, or is it a different TUI company?

That's ArkeFly.

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 7):
Of those, I'm pretty sure Royal Jordanian and Emirates are already in town.

Already in town? If you mean that they already serve there, then no. No they don't. Not yet at least.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 6):
MIA-HKG is 8990 sm great circle. Unless CX ordered the 777-8 and configure it in a low density seating, I can't imagine the talks will materialize into anything concrete.

Doesn't have to be nonstop. Can be HKG-YVR-MIA.

Quoting crazyguineapig (Reply 3):
I'm wondering if TACA could be a candidate to serve MIA.

TACA (Now Avianca) has been flying to MIA for years.

-Miami



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlineSkyBird77 From United States of America, joined Sep 2013, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 22299 times:

I would be more excited if talks were with WN, B6, NK, or VX. I know it will most likely never happen!  
Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 10):
TACA's been there for years SAL GUA and RTB - now flown on AV codes

Don't forget SAP and MGA! And, not too long ago, SJO and TGU.

[Edited 2014-03-20 12:52:20]

User currently onlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 885 posts, RR: 42
Reply 13, posted (4 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 22301 times:
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Here's another story, right here on airliners.net!
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-articles/read.main?id=163



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlineFastphilly From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 22132 times:

A HKG flight out of MIA isn't happening. OW alliance or not. With AA starting DFW-HKG on a 77W they will utilize every means to fill that plane which includes connecting passengers from MIA. DFW is slowly being used as AA's TPAC gateway and can easily absorb the PDEW that Miami gernerates to Asia.

CX to MIA and even to DFW now with the AA flight is a pipe dream.


User currently onlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 15, posted (4 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 22119 times:

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 16):
CX to MIA and even to DFW now with the AA flight is a pipe dream.

It's no pipe dream. It isn't happening anytime soon, but it is absolutely realistic to think Cathay will be flying to Miami and/or Dallas by decade's end. The market isn't going anywhere than up, and nowhere is the Asia market growing faster than from Florida, Texas, Georgia and the Southeast in general.

[Edited 2014-03-20 13:08:44]


a.
User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8045 posts, RR: 54
Reply 16, posted (4 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 21819 times:

Quoting SkyBird77 (Reply 11):
I thought Jetairfly was already here, or is it a different TUI company?

If they're not there yet, get ready cos they're coming - I am meeting my buddy off his flight from Brussels at MIA arrivals at midday on Monday 19 May. Nice times, I like an early North American arrival - this one leaves BRU at 0700 (admittedly painful) and lands at MIA at 1200. Aircraft is 767-300ER. Not sure of return times but I presume it leaves mid afternoon and gets into Brussels at a very early time (like 0520 or something).



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7174 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (4 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 21354 times:

JL would have a hard time operating out of MIA. Their planes won't have the kahunas to make it to MIA without having to take a load hit.


One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8186 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (4 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 21351 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 15):

It's no pipe dream. It isn't happening anytime soon, but it is absolutely realistic to think Cathay will be flying to Miami and/or Dallas by decade's end. The market isn't going anywhere than up, and nowhere is the Asia market growing faster than from Florida, Texas, Georgia and the Southeast in general.

Absolutely. Also, in regards to range, let's wait and see what the A359 will bring. CX has a few of those on order. MIA-HKG is already in the range of the A359. If It beats expectations this could become a viable route.


User currently onlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 19, posted (4 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 21272 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 18):
JL would have a hard time operating out of MIA. Their planes won't have the kahunas to make it to MIA without having to take a load hit.

A 788 or 77W are not going to have any problems.



a.
User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1548 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (4 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 21124 times:

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 4):
MIA-HKG is 8990 sm great circle. Unless CX ordered the 777-8 and configure it in a low density seating, I can't imagine the talks will materialize into anything concrete.

How much demand is there for MIA-HKG? I just don't see the two cities having much in common in terms of business or even leisure.


User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 20985 times:

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 22):

Its OW hub-to-hub regardless of traffic which I know Mah4546 mentioned as being high yielding though not super big (2011 was 30 PDEW)

MNL is a larger market from MIA though.


User currently onlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 22, posted (4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 20794 times:

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 21):
How much demand is there for MIA-HKG? I just don't see the two cities having much in common in terms of business or even leisure.

It's approaching 40 PDEW this year, and growing at an healthy rate, with very high average fares. The two cities have strong ties in real estate development, trade/shipping and finance (specifically private wealth), and Miami is the main Americas base for Swire Group and HSBC's Latin American headquarters.



a.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24786 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 20757 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 2):
plus Canadian North just launched last month. Canadian North is operating seasonal Saturday service between Miami and Hamilton, Ontario.

Isn't that a charter? I thought we were talking about scheduled services. Canadian North doesn't include MIA as a destination bookable in their website and those flights don't seem to appear on other schedule sites.


User currently onlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 885 posts, RR: 42
Reply 24, posted (4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 20551 times:
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Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 23):

Yep, it's a charter. Mainly to fly passengers for cruises



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlineSkyBird77 From United States of America, joined Sep 2013, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (4 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 20252 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 10):
Arkefly.
Quoting Miami (Reply 11):
That's ArkeFly.

Thanks for the clarification. I knew it was one of the "Fly's"

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 16):
Aircraft is 767-300ER.

Any chance of one of their new 787-8's in the very near future? I've seen them (flight #'s 107/108) fly over on Fridays on their way to/from Cancun.


User currently offlinedifrano789 From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 10 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (4 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 19814 times:

Quoting lucaspithan (Reply 6):
Gol is also planning. They already told they will fly GRU-CCS-MIA.

With the current Venezuelan goverment i doubt the DOT will approve any new link between Venezuela and USA until US Airlines get approval for they new routes by Venezuelan agency INAC.


User currently onlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 27, posted (4 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 20131 times:

Quoting difrano789 (Reply 26):
With the current Venezuelan goverment i doubt the DOT will approve any new link between Venezuela and USA until US Airlines get approval for they new routes by Venezuelan agency INAC.

Did not even get that far. Venezuela rejected Gol's applicaton, and Gol flies via SDQ, instead.



a.
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5306 posts, RR: 4
Reply 28, posted (4 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 19780 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 19):
A 788 or 77W are not going to have any problems.

NRT is probably too long for the 788 with a good load, particularly JAL's early 788s. The 789 or 77W should be fine.

The only current or planned aircraft that could fly HKG with a full load are the A340-500, 777-200LR, and 777-8X.


User currently onlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 885 posts, RR: 42
Reply 29, posted (4 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 19674 times:
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I wonder how long of a flight is HKG-MIA nonstop.   


Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1017 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (4 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 19469 times:

Is there a chance TK startS MIA sometime next year? I remember TK expressing interest in MIA.

User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7174 posts, RR: 17
Reply 31, posted (4 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 19492 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 19):
A 788 or 77W are not going to have any problems.
Quoting seabosdca (Reply 28):
NRT is probably too long for the 788 with a good load, particularly JAL's early 788s. The 789 or 77W should be fine.

Maybe the 789. The 77W can make it, but filling a 77W of JL's configuration is probably not going to work.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 28):
The only current or planned aircraft that could fly HKG with a full load are the A340-500, 777-200LR, and 777-8X.

I agree, HKG could work with the 778

Quoting Miami (Reply 29):
I wonder how long of a flight is HKG-MIA nonstop.

I believe it's the same length as DFW-SYD.



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently onlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 32, posted (4 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 19399 times:

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 28):
NRT is probably too long for the 788 with a good load, particularly JAL's early 788s. The 789 or 77W should be fine.

A fully loaded 787-8 has a range just over 9,000 miles. I don't get how it doesn't make MIANRT absent some sort runway/climate restrictions at Narita or Miami? Especially given JAL's low density configuration. It is not much longer than ORD-DOH, which was scheduled to be a 788 route on QR.

[Edited 2014-03-20 18:58:15]


a.
User currently offlinejcwr56 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 474 posts, RR: 1
Reply 33, posted (4 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 19294 times:

Interesting, but MIA is not the only City that been asking for additional CBP officers.

LAX
JFK
ORD

Anyone else needs staffing.....

CBP should start looking at what their pax arrival rate is and start denying landing rights at times peak times instead of rubber stamping like they normally do.


User currently onlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 885 posts, RR: 42
Reply 34, posted (4 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 19298 times:
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Quoting PHX787 (Reply 31):
I believe it's the same length as DFW-SYD.
HKG-MIA will be about 400 mi more. If ever happens, will become World's longest flight.

Quoting miaintl (Reply 30):
Is there a chance TK startS MIA sometime next year? I remember TK expressing interest in MIA.

Sure. Why not? We may see an announcement late this year.

Can anyone imagine AZ at MIA?! Lol! Only 8051 mi      

[Edited 2014-03-20 18:55:53]


Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8273 posts, RR: 7
Reply 35, posted (4 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 18896 times:
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IF Miami gets to an Asian nonstop it should be to Tokyo but AA or JAL don't seem to have plans for such a flight. Korean could fly from Seoul nonstop to Miami, their ICN hub can connect Miami to any major city in Asia. With the 787-9 and the A350-900 flying Miami may finally get the missing link to its route map.

User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4158 posts, RR: 13
Reply 36, posted (4 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 18799 times:

Aer Lingus state they are looking at adding another Florida destination for 2015.

The source for this is an interview with the EI head of commercial on a website which is not permitted to be linked to from here (apparently!) but which is a known industry network planning resource!



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5306 posts, RR: 4
Reply 37, posted (4 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 18741 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 32):
A fully loaded 787-8 has a range just over 9,000 miles.

  

7650 nm (8800 miles) is full 787-8 range in still air, and some of JL's frames have even less. MIA-NRT westbound is flying into winds the entire way, and is going to be a bit more than that in still air distance most days.


User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3299 posts, RR: 9
Reply 38, posted (4 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 18556 times:

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 33):
CBP should start looking at what their pax arrival rate is and start denying landing rights at times peak times instead of rubber stamping like they normally do.

Why inhibit commerce for their own failure to adequately staff?


User currently onlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 885 posts, RR: 42
Reply 39, posted (4 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 18584 times:
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Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 36):
Aer Lingus state they are looking at adding another Florida destination for 2015.

Has to be MIA. What other Florida airport would they use?! And no. It won't be FLL   



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlineSkyBird77 From United States of America, joined Sep 2013, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (4 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 18509 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 30):
Is there a chance TK startS MIA sometime next year? I remember TK expressing interest in MIA.
Quoting Miami (Reply 34):
Sure. Why not? We may see an announcement late this year.

Didn't TK once try MIA (I think it was maybe 10 years ago with A340's)? Or is my mind playing tricks on me?

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 37):
7650 nm (8800 miles) is full 787-8 range in still air, and some of JL's frames have even less. MIA-NRT westbound is flying into winds the entire way, and is going to be a bit more than that in still air distance most days.

They can always use a 787-8 with a technical stop in Anchorage, yes?


User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5306 posts, RR: 4
Reply 41, posted (4 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 18445 times:

Quoting SkyBird77 (Reply 40):
They can always use a 787-8 with a technical stop in Anchorage, yes?

I'd think it would be much cheaper and easier just to use a 787-9, which has longer range.


User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4158 posts, RR: 13
Reply 42, posted (4 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 18459 times:

Quoting Miami (Reply 39):
Has to be MIA. What other Florida airport would they use?! And no. It won't be FLL   

EI are a primary airport user these days - the LCC days are over, now that they are a network airline again. Considering much of their passengers are coming from UK cities, and indeed throughout Europe, connecting in Dublin, they need to be flying the primary airports.

DUB has been at the top of MIA's wishlist on aforementioned industry website for some time now.



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlinetrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4679 posts, RR: 14
Reply 43, posted (4 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 18251 times:
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Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 32):
A fully loaded 787-8 has a range just over 9,000 miles. I don't get how it doesn't make MIANRT absent some sort runway/climate restrictions at Narita or Miami? Especially given JAL's low density configuration. It is not much longer than ORD-DOH, which was scheduled to be a 788 route on QR.

9000 miles???
check their acaps page 27 http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/commercial/airports/acaps/787.pdf
your payload would be @20 tons only!


User currently offlineCondor24 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 43 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (4 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 18225 times:

Aer Lingus to Miami would be great. Pre flight customs would give great bonus for London & other Western Europe passengers to pre clear customs. All depends on flight time ex Dub, or a night in a hotel will be needed. Worth it to avoid a possible 2 hour wait at Mia. Perhaps Aer Lingus could operate to Fort Lauderdale.


'Condor, the span to fly'
User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1017 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (4 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 18105 times:

How large is the O&D between Miami and Dublin? Can the flight operate daily? How many times a week does EI fly to MCO?

User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4158 posts, RR: 13
Reply 46, posted (4 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 17650 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 45):
How large is the O&D between Miami and Dublin? Can the flight operate daily? How many times a week does EI fly to MCO?

MIA's own numbers seem to suggest a 3 per week service on A330 is feasible - however, those numbers appear to date from before EI started heavily pushing connections at the Dublin end. I'm sorry that I cant link to the website in question - I had a post removed for linking to it.....

EI presently serve MCO thrice weekly.

Quoting Condor24 (Reply 44):
All depends on flight time ex Dub, or a night in a hotel will be needed.

As an example, MCO is a 12:20 departure from DUB - it connects to every UK destination EI has.



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlineFastphilly From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (4 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 17191 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 22):
It's approaching 40 PDEW this year, and growing at an healthy rate, with very high average fares. The two cities have strong ties in real estate development, trade/shipping and finance (specifically private wealth), and Miami is the main Americas base for Swire Group and HSBC's Latin American headquarters.

40 PDEW? That is far less than half of what it would take to even consider a ULH flight from a station that has low domestic feed for westbound international flights. DFW-HKG is around 40 PDEW but unlike MIA that's in a poor location for domestic feed DFW can fill the plane from domestic connections throughout the southeast (which includes MIA).

40 PDEW can easily be absorbed into three stations for HKG flights. DFW, LAX and to a lesser extent SFO.

Even more important with only 40 PDEW how many of those will fill the front of the plane? I don't see enough business/high yield traffic to make an ULH to HKG viable. MIA has about as much chance of getting a non-stop to HKG as SFO has of getting a non-stop SA flight to JNB. In other words fat chance.


User currently onlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 48, posted (4 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 17057 times:

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 37):
Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 32):
A fully loaded 787-8 has a range just over 9,000 miles.

  

7650 nm (8800 miles) is full 787-8 range in still air, and some of JL's frames have even less. MIA-NRT westbound is flying into winds the entire way, and is going to be a bit more than that in still air distance most days.

So the 787-8 is such a poor performer that with an 8800mi range it can't handle a 7400mi flight?



a.
User currently offlineFastphilly From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (4 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 16426 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 48):
So the 787-8 is such a poor performer that with an 8800mi range it can't handle a 7400mi flight?

JAL is still recovering from it's financial issues. They will not gamble at this point in time on a ULH route even if it's a 787 to a new / unproven destination.

My guess is EI and RJ will be those other two that will give MIA a shot.


User currently onlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 50, posted (4 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 16374 times:

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 49):
Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 48):
So the 787-8 is such a poor performer that with an 8800mi range it can't handle a 7400mi flight?

JAL is still recovering from it's financial issues. They will not gamble at this point in time on a ULH route even if it's a 787 to a new / unproven destination.

JAL is in a JBA with American Airlines. It's not as much a gamble as you think. AA might very well operate the route under the JBA instead of JAL. Reality is it needs a plane closer to 300 seats, not 200. The 788 configuration is too low density for the market. Might have to wait for an AA 789 or JL A350, or how AA configures it's 788s.

JAL "recovering from financial issues" surely hasn't stopped it from entering Boston, San Diego and Helsinki.

Miami-Tokyo is nearing 60 PDEW in 2013. Florida-Tokyo is over 150 PDEW. It's no small market.

[Edited 2014-03-21 01:17:47]


a.
User currently offlineFastphilly From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (4 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 16098 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 50):
Miami-Tokyo is nearing 60 PDEW in 2013. Florida-Tokyo is over 150 PDEW. It's no small market.

It's a low yield VFR market to Asia compared to other US cities in the same tier. That's the point. JAL is not going to operate an ULH when filling the front of the plane is in question. Boston is a much shorter route to Tokyo by a good margin plus they have excellent yields due to the banking industry/tech presence. San Diego is a major West Coast city so that route is a no brainer.

Now let's look at Helsinki. This is a quote taken from Business Traveller:

"According to JAL, the ability to connect via Helsinki will shorten the overall journey time for passengers flying between Japan and several different European cities. Flying to Stockholm via Helsinki, for instance, will take 12 hours 30 minutes, compared to 16 hours if you go via Frankfurt. Travelling to Budapest via Helsinki will take 14 hours and 40 minutes, compared to 17 hours and 45 minutes via Frankfurt.

Helsinki-Vantaa International Airport is emerging as a new European hub. It offers some of the shortest travel times to Asia because flights can go over the top of the globe. Recent improvements to its facilities, such as a US$193 million terminal extension, have significantly increased its handling capacity.
"

Now that Helsinki flight is used for a different purpose than a ULH to MIA where yields are in question and a 60 PDEW. Florida is 150 PDEW, but what percentage of that 150 PDEW may be siphoned through ATL. Not every Floridian is a OW flyer.

[Edited 2014-03-21 01:51:43]

User currently offlineTWACaptain From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 29 posts, RR: 3
Reply 52, posted (4 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 15943 times:
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Quoting crazyguineapig (Reply 3):

Where did you see that AA is starting MIA-TLV in 2015?



TWA-Gone, but not forgotten...
User currently offlinejcwr56 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 474 posts, RR: 1
Reply 53, posted (4 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 15688 times:

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 38):

Remember, you're dealing with the Government. They don't see it as success or failure just a task they have assigned but more importantly, what they are legally allowed to do under Law.

Airlines/Aiports v. CBP, talk with any Senior staff for the top 5 major arriving U.S cities and you see this issue is everywhere.

Personally, I think it's great MIA is adding new services.


User currently onlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 885 posts, RR: 42
Reply 54, posted (4 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 14241 times:
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Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 47):
Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 50):
Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 51):

Load factors range from 83% to 85%. Japan-Florida O&D passenger traffic ranges between 118,000 and 143,000 annual passengers with 163,000 to 205,000 overall passengers.

Tokyo has 325,000 annual O&D traffic travelling to/from Latin America and the Caribbean.



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8186 posts, RR: 10
Reply 55, posted (4 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 13411 times:

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 28):
The only current or planned aircraft that could fly HKG with a full load are the A340-500, 777-200LR, and 777-8X.

But full load is not the same as profitable load. With high yield passengers an A359 ought to be abe to fly this route proftably. According to the following chart, an A359 should be able to carry about 30 tons of payload on the MIA-HKG route.
http://www.theicct.org/blogs/staff/p...nes-pound-carbon-constrained-world

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 47):
40 PDEW? That is far less than half of what it would take to even consider a ULH flight from a station that has low domestic feed for westbound international flights.

If you can get good yields that should work in a couple of years if we factor in growth. The rest of the seats could be filled with connections beyong HKG.


User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5306 posts, RR: 4
Reply 56, posted (4 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 13155 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 48):
So the 787-8 is such a poor performer that with an 8800mi range it can't handle a 7400mi flight?

As I wrote, the westbound flight is into the wind the entire way (and it's hard to escape due to Miami's location). It will be over 8800 miles still-air distance most of the time.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 55):
But full load is not the same as profitable load. With high yield passengers an A359 ought to be abe to fly this route proftably. According to the following chart, an A359 should be able to carry about 30 tons of payload on the MIA-HKG route.

Again, you're calculating as if there were never any wind along the route. Still air range is very, very different from real-world range. In the real world, I think ESAD of MIA-HKG would be over 9000 nm and the A350-900 would struggle to carry any payload at all. Given that the new generation of efficient twins do well on range at light weights, it might work with an all-J arrangement, if the J seats were light -- but there isn't that kind of business demand between the two destinations.


User currently offlinedfwjim1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2011, 241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 57, posted (4 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 13027 times:
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How about extending the DFW-HKG flight to MIA? Would something like that work?

User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8186 posts, RR: 10
Reply 58, posted (4 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 12851 times:

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 56):
Again, you're calculating as if there were never any wind along the route

That's because there isn't much wind to contend with. It's a polar route. Much like DXB-LAX, which is only 600nm shorter but flown with a plane that has less range than the A359.


User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5306 posts, RR: 4
Reply 59, posted (4 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 12786 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 58):
That's because there isn't much wind to contend with. It's a polar route. Much like DXB-LAX, which is only 600nm shorter but flown with a plane that has less range than the A359.

Fair enough on the polar route point, but the latest A350-900 range number from Airbus is only 7750 nm (compared with 7980 nm for recent-build 777-300ERs such as those EK is using -- with blocked-off seats -- to reach LAX). People are remembering the original 8500 nm range claim, but the actual product has ended up more like every other long-haul widebody.


User currently onlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 60, posted (4 months 3 days ago) and read 12664 times:

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 51):
It's a low yield VFR market to Asia compared to other US cities in the same tier.

But it's not. It's average fares (nothing spectacular to Tokyo; but beyond markets like HKG and TPE do have very high average fares).

We obviously aren't going to agree here, that's fine. AA/JL JBA will begin Miami-Tokyo, and Philadelphia-Tokyo for that matter, in the near-term future.



a.
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8186 posts, RR: 10
Reply 61, posted (4 months 3 days ago) and read 12214 times:

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 59):
Fair enough on the polar route point, but the latest A350-900 range number from Airbus is only 7750 nm (compared with 7980 nm for recent-build 777-300ERs such as those EK is using -- with blocked-off seats -- to reach LAX).

You're right I'm probably thinking about the old 8500nm range. But back to the payload/range chart, it's a matter of how much payload the airline needs in order to make the route profitable, at a certain range. Looking at the available data the A359 appears to have some wiggle room.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 60):
We obviously aren't going to agree here, that's fine. AA/JL JBA will begin Miami-Tokyo, and Philadelphia-Tokyo for that matter, in the near-term future.

I agree. It makes too much sence. Tokyo to me is a glaring hole from MIA.

[Edited 2014-03-21 09:46:10]

User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1017 posts, RR: 0
Reply 62, posted (4 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 11803 times:

Does anyone know what the PDEW is between Miami and Doha? This route by QR would have to be a success before any other Asian carrier comes to MIA. If QR is successful then it shows that Miami is a viable market to Asia.

User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7492 posts, RR: 24
Reply 63, posted (4 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11620 times:

I dont think MIA-DOH even has 5 PDEW, but obviously the target market isnt simply MIA-DOH. Its MIA-India/Southeast Asia/South Asia/Middle East.


Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently onlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 64, posted (4 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11309 times:

MIA-DOH is around ~6 PDEW only. But it realistically will probably rocket to 30-40 PDEW within 2 years, as is common with new Middle East routes.


a.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7174 posts, RR: 17
Reply 65, posted (4 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 11110 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 32):
A fully loaded 787-8 has a range just over 9,000 miles. I don't get how it doesn't make MIANRT absent some sort runway/climate restrictions at Narita or Miami? Especially given JAL's low density configuration. It is not much longer than ORD-DOH, which was scheduled to be a 788 route on QR.
Quoting seabosdca (Reply 37):
7650 nm (8800 miles) is full 787-8 range in still air, and some of JL's frames have even less. MIA-NRT westbound is flying into winds the entire way, and is going to be a bit more than that in still air distance most days.

What about JL's new A350s? I don't think they could fill it though.



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently onlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 66, posted (4 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 11092 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 65):
Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 32): A fully loaded 787-8 has a range just over 9,000 miles. I don't get how it doesn't make MIANRT absent some sort runway/climate restrictions at Narita or Miami? Especially given JAL's low density configuration. It is not much longer than ORD-DOH, which was scheduled to be a 788 route on QR.Quoting seabosdca (Reply 37): 7650 nm (8800 miles) is full 787-8 range in still air, and some of JL's frames have even less. MIA-NRT westbound is flying into winds the entire way, and is going to be a bit more than that in still air distance most days.
What about JL's new A350s? I don't think they could fill it though.

Filling 300 seats won't be a problem. The market between Miami and Asia is large; much larger than many West Coast markets including Denver, Salt Lake City and Phoenix. And on top of that, non-stop service will realistically see 100-150% stimulation within 3 years in the non-stop pair.

[Edited 2014-03-21 13:36:31]


a.
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5306 posts, RR: 4
Reply 67, posted (4 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 11042 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 65):
What about JL's new A350s? I don't think they could fill it though.

Range-wise, it would work fine.

I'm skeptical about using anything bigger than a 787-9. I think even that is really too big but it's the smallest plane that can reliably operate the route, and the route does have some potential.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8273 posts, RR: 7
Reply 68, posted (4 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 10991 times:
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Quoting SkyBird77 (Reply 40):
Didn't TK once try MIA (I think it was maybe 10 years ago with A340's)? Or is my mind playing tricks on me?

Turkish did fly to Miami in the late 1990's until 2001 when they quit after 9/11. They flew A340-300's.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7174 posts, RR: 17
Reply 69, posted (4 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 10826 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 66):
Filling 300 seats won't be a problem. The market between Miami and Asia is large; much larger than many West Coast markets including Denver, Salt Lake City and Phoenix. And on top of that, non-stop service will realistically see 100-150% stimulation within 3 years in the non-stop pair.
Quoting seabosdca (Reply 67):
I'm skeptical about using anything bigger than a 787-9. I think even that is really too big but it's the smallest plane that can reliably operate the route, and the route does have some potential.

You see I am seeing very divergent opinions on MIA-Asia.

Myself, I don't see it being profitable for JL.

Remember guys....JL is not in the best economic situation, and hasn't been since 2007. I don't see them expanding any farther east or south than Texas, the Midwest, and the North East.

If they even CHOOSE to add more flights.

From what I've seen with JL's service additions, the flights they're adding with the dreamliners are essentially those a bit west of their current service range in Asia. Aside from PHX, I don't see any more feasible routes they'd wanna risk.

AA doing MIA-Asia? Sure, why the hell not?

JL? Perhaps not.



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently onlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 70, posted (4 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10763 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 69):
AA doing MIA-Asia? Sure, why the hell not?

JL? Perhaps not.

It is the same exact thing. AA and JAL's trans-Pacific operations are merged. They share in risk, profit, losses, etc., etc.

So if you think AA can do it, then JAL can do it too! No difference. It just comes down to what the best equipment and brand for the route is; the JBA can make that choice.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 69):
Aside from PHX, I don't see any more feasible routes they'd wanna risk.

Miami-Asia is more than double the size of Phoenix-Asia, but you think Miami will have trouble filling the plane and Phoenix will work out great?



a.
User currently offlineFastphilly From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 71, posted (4 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 10403 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 70):
Miami-Asia is more than double the size of Phoenix-Asia, but you think Miami will have trouble filling the plane and Phoenix will work out great?

JL pulled out of DFW due to financial issues. I'm sure DFW will see them back before MIA is even considered.

No airline is stating ULH to a market with 60 PDEW and who knows how many of that number are premium yield passengers. MIA is one of the worst airports in the US for domestic feed for west coast/Asia traffic due to location and MIA O&D alone will not fill that plane.
AA has LAX and DFW to transit MIA traffic to Asia. 60 PDEW is quite easily dispersed through AA's system.

I can understand wanting an Asian carrier in MIA. Not having one is a "Black Eye" so to speak for the airports international image same as how my hometown airport SFO can't make one single flight to South America work. Lan Peru last flight is next week   The point I'm making is there are some region pairs that aren't culturaly/business connected enough in volume for such routes. Asians account for only 2.3% of the total Miami metro population (125,000). That is small potatoes.


User currently onlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 72, posted (4 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 10344 times:

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 71):
JL pulled out of DFW due to financial issues. I'm sure DFW will see them back before MIA is even considered.

JAL virtually operates to Dallas via the AA JBA. It might very well return to Dallas under the JBA and takeover an AA frequency to Narita.

Again, JAL and American Airlines have a merged operation between the United States and Asia. This includes not only the U.S. and Japan, but Mexico, Canada, Sinagpore, the Philippines, South Korea, China, etc. If JAL were to fly to MIA, it's because the JBA thinks that JAL's equipment and brand combine to make the optimal choice for Miami-Tokyo. At the same time, the JBA might decide that American brand and equipment is the best choice.

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 71):
I can understand wanting an Asian carrier in MIA.
MIA has an Asian carrier - Qatar Airways. There's no "black-eye." It's international network and variety of international carriers is outstanding; the envy of most U.S. airports and in a league with only LAX and JFK. The lack of a trans-Pacific flight is a glaring hole, but it will be filled in due course.

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 71):
Asians account for only 2.3% of the total Miami metro population (125,000). That is small potatoes.

There is not necessarily a direct correlation between population and traffic patterns. Miami is the largest U.S.-Asia market without a trans-Pacific operator. It will get Asia service in due time. As will the second largest U.S.-Asia market without a Pacific crossing non-stop, Philadelphia.

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 71):
MIA O&D alone will not fill that plane.

MIA O&D alone doesn't fill any plane that isn't going to LaGuardia, Port-au-Prince or Caracas. It is one of the largest transit hubs in the world.

[Edited 2014-03-22 03:07:19]


a.
User currently offlineFastphilly From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 73, posted (4 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 10279 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 72):
MIA has an Asian carrier - Qatar Airways. There's no "black-eye." It's international network and variety of international carriers is outstanding; the envy of most U.S. airports and in a league with only LAX and JFK. The lack of a trans-Pacific flight is a glaring hole, but it will be filled in due course.

I a league with only JFK and LAX.? Your intercontinental routes out of Miami on par with ORD and SFO. Those international passenger numbers are big but many of those numbers are on routes shorter than many US intra regional domestic routes. Half of the foreign airlines operating to Miami have nothing bigger than A320s with limited regional networks so Miami is the only option.


SFO and ORD is indeed on par with Miami for international global service.


User currently onlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 74, posted (4 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 10282 times:

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 73):
I a league with only JFK and LAX.? Your intercontinental routes out of Miami on par with ORD and SFO.

You are very much underestimating the number of long-hauls Miami has to South America and the number of European cities with non-stops to Miami. MIA has more European carriers than any U.S. airport except JFK. It has more weekly flights to just Brazil than Chicago has to all of Asia. There are more weekly flights between Miami and just Sao Paulo than there are between San Francisco and all of China.

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 73):
Half of the foreign airlines operating to Miami have nothing bigger than A320s with limited regional networks so Miami is the only option.

If Miami is the only option, then why do most of the these airlines also operate to JFK, among other U.S. airports? This isn't the 1980's more.

[Edited 2014-03-22 03:45:55]

[Edited 2014-03-22 03:46:55]


a.
User currently offlineFastphilly From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 75, posted (4 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 10235 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 74):
There are more weekly flights between Miami and just Sao Paulo than there are between San Francisco and all of China

You underestimate SFO's traffic to China BIG TIME.

Fact:
SFO to Hong Kong 888,000
MIA to Sao Paulo 777,000

So either the aircraft is bigger on the SFO-HKG route, or you have no idea what your talking about.

MIA is Latin heavy with some traffic to Europe. SFO is Asia heavy with some traffic to Europe. Both have service to Middle East.

[Edited 2014-03-22 04:24:19], SFO also has rotes to Oceana (Austrailia/New Zealand)

[Edited 2014-03-22 04:25:38]

I don't want to derail this thread with anymore this vs that.


[Edited 2014-03-22 04:53:55]

User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8186 posts, RR: 10
Reply 76, posted (4 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 10085 times:

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 71):
No airline is stating ULH to a market with 60 PDEW and who knows how many of that number are premium yield passengers.

Tell that to QR and EK. 60 PDEW is more than enough if you have connections at both ends which JL/CX/AA would have because these routes are connecting 2 OW hubs. For OW customers there is no better Latin America hub than MIA. I know the immigration clearance is a PITA but it's that or a less convenient route.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7174 posts, RR: 17
Reply 77, posted (4 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 9936 times:

Let me reiterate something here.

JL is not in the best shape possible.
BK did nothing for them. at all.

now let me also say something as well:
PDEW numbers do not mean much for JL unless there is extra money involved from the airport/city.

If JL is gonna add another city, there's gonna have to be a lot of money-related negotiations.

PHX has been negotiating for years. Has MIA?



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8186 posts, RR: 10
Reply 78, posted (4 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 9802 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 77):
JL is not in the best shape possible.
BK did nothing for them. at all.

It didn't stop them from introducing BOS and SAN. BOS's incentives weren't that unusually good and MIA is only an extra 600nm.


User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 79, posted (4 months 2 days ago) and read 9772 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 60):
AA/JL JBA will begin Miami-Tokyo, and Philadelphia-Tokyo for that matter, in the near-term future.

I think NRT-PHL is coming very

Quoting airbazar (Reply 78):
It didn't stop them from introducing BOS and SAN. BOS's incentives weren't that unusually good and MIA is only an extra 600nm.

I believe the BOS incentives will run out next month since it will be the 2 year anniversary of the service.

Did JL get advertising money from Massport? I don't recall seeing the extent of advertising for BOS-NRT as we have seen for BOS-DXB in the city and local media.


User currently onlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 80, posted (4 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9583 times:

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 75):
So either the aircraft is bigger on the SFO-HKG route, or you have no idea what your talking about.

I know perfectly well what I'm talking about. I did not include Hong Kong for obvious reasons - it has its own bilateral, its own entry requirements, etc. It's an administrative region, not a city in China.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 77):

Let me reiterate something here.

JL is not in the best shape possible.
BK did nothing for them. at all.

now let me also say something as well:
PDEW numbers do not mean much for JL unless there is extra money involved from the airport/city.

If JL is gonna add another city, there's gonna have to be a lot of money-related negotiations.

PHX has been negotiating for years. Has MIA?

AA and JAL are in a JBA. Why are you ignoring this? MIA and JAL have indeed been in talks for years; but the talks also naturally involve AA, because American Airlines and JAL have merged trans-Pacific operations. This makes it easier for JAL to enter new North American markets, because American Airlines shares in the risk!

If the AA hub in Phoenix had a certain future, than a trans-Pacific link could make sense. But there's little sense in investing in a link for a hub that might not be around in five years.

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 75):
MIA is Latin heavy with some traffic to Europe. SFO is Asia heavy with some traffic to Europe. Both have service to Middle East.

MIA has more European airlines than any airport in the U.S. sans JFK. It has a healthy amount more long-haul flights to Europe than San Francisco. oneWorld alone operates up to 14 daily Miami-Europe flights, not much less the amount of total daily departures between SFO and Europe (which is around ~16 or so). And the local market is about 30% larger. It's one of the most important U.S.-Europe gateways, and one of the few with access to Helsinki, Berlin, Milan, Moscow and Lisbon.

[Edited 2014-03-22 12:34:56]


a.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24786 posts, RR: 22
Reply 81, posted (4 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9528 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 80):
Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 75):
So either the aircraft is bigger on the SFO-HKG route, or you have no idea what your talking about.

I know perfectly well what I'm talking about. I did not include Hong Kong for obvious reasons - it has its own bilateral, its own entry requirements, etc. It's an administrative region, not a city in China.

But you are talking about traffic between the U.S. and China, and a significant number of passengers to/from mainland China connect via HKG.


User currently onlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 82, posted (4 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9527 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 81):
But you are talking about traffic between the U.S. and China, and a significant number of passengers to/from mainland China connect via HKG.

No, I was just talking about the number of weekly flights SFO-China (31 this summer) versus MIA-GRU (46).



a.
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8186 posts, RR: 10
Reply 83, posted (4 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9478 times:

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 79):
Did JL get advertising money from Massport? I don't recall seeing the extent of advertising for BOS-NRT as we have seen for BOS-DXB in the city and local media.

Yes it did. The marketing component is part if the overal incentive package that every new airline gets. I don't think EK's incentives are any different than what JL, Copa, or TK are receiving from Massport.
http://www.massport.com/news-room/ne...s-emirates-and-non-stops-to-dubai/
BOS like any other major international airport has established incentives for new carriers and new destinations. MIA does too:
MIA-ASIP-brochure.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.miami-airport.com/pdfdoc/MIA-ASIP-brochure.pdf


User currently offlineFastphilly From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 84, posted (4 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9462 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 82):
No, I was just talking about the number of weekly flights SFO-China (31 this summer) versus MIA-GRU (46).

There are 35 weekly flights from SFO to China on foreign metal alone, after adding UA's China flights would put it WAY over 46 weekly flights. Hong Kong became Chinese territory when the British returned governing control of Hong Kong back to CHINA. It's a special administrative region of China.

Nice try.

I wouldn't say MIA has a "Healthy Amount" more. There are a few destinations served from SFO to Europe not currently served out of MIA. DUB, MUC, CPH. Yes Miami has more overall flights/destinations to Europe than SFO, but with SFO/Bay Area having 10 European airlines compared to MIA having 15 I wouldn't call that a substantial amount.


User currently onlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 885 posts, RR: 42
Reply 85, posted (4 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9435 times:
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Great article/presentation about MIA and it's future. Including new international destinations.
http://www.miami-airport.com/pdfdoc/...tate%20of%20the%20Ports%202014.pdf

[Edited 2014-03-22 13:34:24]


Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7492 posts, RR: 24
Reply 86, posted (4 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9427 times:

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 75):
SFO to Hong Kong 888,000
MIA to Sao Paulo 777,000

You're numbers are WAY off.

SFO to Hong Kong is around 400,000 annual passenger. MIA to GRU is around 450,000 passengers.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineFastphilly From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 87, posted (4 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9271 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 86):
SFO to Hong Kong is around 400,000 annual passenger. MIA to GRU is around 450,000 passengers.

I should have said between both markets in both directions total. My source was Wiki.


User currently offlineFastphilly From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 88, posted (4 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9259 times:

Quoting Miami (Reply 85):
Quoting Miami (Reply 85):






Great article/presentation about MIA and it's future. Including new international destinations.
http://www.miami-airport.com/pdfdoc/...4.pdf

Wow!! Eastern may be resurrected! My trip in September will be to both Washington DC and Miami. I'm looking forward to do some plane spotting at both locations. Hopefully good locations can be made for photos/videos at close proximity to the runways without getting harassed by authorities.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7492 posts, RR: 24
Reply 89, posted (4 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9203 times:

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 87):
I should have said between both markets in both directions total. My source was Wiki.

The numbers I gave were both directions as well.

Perhaps you were talking about total capacity and not O&D?



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently onlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 90, posted (4 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 9186 times:

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 84):
Nice try.

I'm not trying anything. HKG is not China. My facts are correct. When Cathay Pacific is allowed to fly between Shangahi and Beijing, or when an American can travel freely between Hong Kong and Shenzhen, then we can start considering it one market.



a.
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8273 posts, RR: 7
Reply 91, posted (4 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 9135 times:
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Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 84):
I wouldn't say MIA has a "Healthy Amount" more. There are a few destinations served from SFO to Europe not currently served out of MIA. DUB, MUC, CPH. Yes Miami has more overall flights/destinations to Europe than SFO, but with SFO/Bay Area having 10 European airlines compared to MIA having 15 I wouldn't call that a substantial amount.

Miami has more airlines since they cater to the "Latin " Market they have all the "Latin" oriented Euro airlines, IBeria and TAP. Neither TAP or IB fly to SFO, SFO attracts SAS and KLM which don't fly to Miami. SFO has more flights to Europe since United has more SFO to Europe flights then AA does from MIA. LHR has as many SFO as MIA to LHR, CDG and FRA have more frequency from SFO then MIA. Miami may have more airlines to Europe but SFO has more flights to Europe.


User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 92, posted (4 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9039 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 91):


Miami has more airlines since they cater to the "Latin " Market they have all the "Latin" oriented Euro airlines,

So this should be held against MIA?

Non-Latin airlines Finnair,Transaero, Aeroflot and Air Berlin serve MIA and not SFO. MIA offers a lot more than a link to Latin America.

Do you have numbers on total number of European flights for each airport?


Has DL/NW/KL or MartinAir ever serve MIA?


User currently offlineFastphilly From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 93, posted (4 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9021 times:

Aer Lingus also fly's to SFO and not MIA. I would have thought a OW carrier like EI would start MIA before returning to SFO. Whatever the case, a west coast city that can support numerous flights to many locations in Europe on many different carriers is impressive IMO.

MIA is a popular international destination, but it's diversity on flights to international regions is limited compared to other US tier 1 airports.

South America, Europe and finally a future flight commencing in mid June to the ME. That is it.


User currently onlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 885 posts, RR: 42
Reply 94, posted (4 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8984 times:
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Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 93):

1st of all EI existed OneWorld years ago.... 2nd of all EI's CEO said he'll be looking at another Florida airport for 2015. Most likely MIA.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 92):
Non-Latin airlines Finnair,Transaero, Aeroflot and Air Berlin serve MIA and not SFO. MIA offers a lot more than a link to Latin America.

Don't forget Qatar Airways! MIA has. SFO doesn't



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlineFastphilly From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 95, posted (4 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8967 times:

Quoting Miami (Reply 94):
Don't forget Qatar Airways! MIA has. SFO doesn't

We have EK though  


User currently offlines4popo From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 96, posted (4 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8979 times:

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 92):
Has DL/NW/KL or MartinAir ever serve MIA?

DL tried MIA-LHR and KL and MartinAir have both flown AMS in the past.

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 93):
I would have thought a OW carrier like EI would start MIA before returning to SFO.

EI is not a OW carrier.


User currently offlineFastphilly From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 97, posted (4 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8953 times:

Quoting s4popo (Reply 96):
DL tried MIA-LHR and KL and MartinAir have both flown AMS in the past.

I think Arkefly flys MIA-AMS. They also fly to OAK but it's a seasonal route.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8273 posts, RR: 7
Reply 98, posted (4 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8944 times:
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Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 92):
Non-Latin airlines Finnair,Transaero, Aeroflot and Air Berlin serve MIA and not SFO. MIA offers a lot more than a link to Latin America.

Your big news is " Miami has more links to South America then San Francisco" ? OF Coourse it does, this subject was more flights and more airlines to Europe from MIA vs, SFO. SFO has more Asian flihts then MIA, that is an easy one since MIA has ZERO to Asia. More flights to Latin America is not a claim I would advertise in California. Maybe MIA has more flights to Canada too.


User currently onlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 885 posts, RR: 42
Reply 99, posted (4 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8908 times:
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Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 95):
We have EK though

We should get EK soon. I'm assuming.

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 97):
I think Arkefly flys MIA-AMS.

They do.



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently onlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 100, posted (4 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8850 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 91):
SFO has more flights to Europe since United has more SFO to Europe flights then AA does from MIA. LHR has as many SFO as MIA to LHR, CDG and FRA have more frequency from SFO then MIA. Miami may have more airlines to Europe but SFO has more flights to Europe.
AA has more daily Miami-Europe flights (six to five airports) than UA has SFO-Europe flights (four to three cities). Miami also has quite a bit more flights to Europe than San Francisco. From memory, I might be off:


Miami:

FRA - 7w
HEL - 3w
VVO - 2w
SVO - 3w
LHR - 39w
CDG - 16w
MAD - 25w
BCN - 7w
FCO - 7w
MXP - 7w
ZRH - 10w
BRU - 2w
AMS - 3w
DUS - 7w
BER - 5w
LIS - 5w
TOTAL: 148w

San Francisco:

LHR: 35w
FRA: 21w
CDG: 16w
ZRH: 7w
AMS: 7w
MUC: 7w
CPH: 6w
DUB: 5w

TOTAL: 104w

Miami has about 50% more service to double the amount of airports non-stop.

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 93):
MIA is a popular international destination, but it's diversity on flights to international regions is limited compared to other US tier 1 airports.

Why is it limited? Because you say so? South America isn't international enough for you?

It has more international points served than any airport outside of JFK. That's diversity. Yes, it lacks a trans-Pacific flight currently. Given it's geography, that's no shocker. SFO will soon have zero connections to South America and Chicago only has one.

[Edited 2014-03-22 21:06:53]


a.
User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 101, posted (4 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8772 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 98):
Your big news is " Miami has more links to South America then San Francisco" ?

Did you read what i wrote? I gave you examples of non-Latin/Romance language Euro carriers who serve MIA and not SFO. I did not even mention South America.

Mah4546 followed it up and actually answered my question with data on transatlantic service levels for both airports. UA is really being a trailblazer serving LHR FRA and CDG.


User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1017 posts, RR: 0
Reply 102, posted (4 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8789 times:

Mark how is SU preforming on the MIA-SVO route? Is that route seeing any profits? Does it have full loads?

User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5172 posts, RR: 4
Reply 103, posted (4 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8727 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 90):
I'm not trying anything. HKG is not China. My facts are correct

  

I can't believe that people are seriously trying to argue including HKG in China.

However much some people try and bend it to fit their arguments, HKSAR is NOT part of PRC. From an aviation context, HKSAR and PRC operate under totally separate bilaterals and route authorities, not to mention that they have separate immigration and border control.

What Mah said is, technically, correct.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineFastphilly From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 104, posted (4 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8677 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 100):
Why is it limited? Because you say so? South America isn't international enough for you?

It has more international points served than any airport outside of JFK. That's diversity. Yes, it lacks a trans-Pacific flight currently. Given it's geography, that's no shocker. SFO will soon have zero connections to South America and Chicago only has one.

I am talking on a global perspective. MIA has no flights to the Far East, no flights to Africa, no flights to Oceana and a ME flight that still needs to be proved if it's a viable route.

As I type this SFO has service to every continent but Africa. MIA's global network is not as diverse as SFO, DFW, IAH, LAX, ORD and JFK.


User currently offlineFastphilly From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 105, posted (4 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8661 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 100):
FRA - 7w
HEL - 3w
VVO - 2w
SVO - 3w
LHR - 39w
CDG - 16w
MAD - 25w
BCN - 7w
FCO - 7w
MXP - 7w
ZRH - 10w
BRU - 2w
AMS - 3w
DUS - 7w
BER - 5w
LIS - 5w
TOTAL: 148w

San Francisco:

LHR: 35w
FRA: 21w
CDG: 16w
ZRH: 7w
AMS: 7w
MUC: 7w
CPH: 6w
DUB: 5w

TOTAL: 104w

Miami has about 50% more service to double the amount of airports non-stop.

Who is flying MIA-MXP?? American.

[Edited 2014-03-22 23:16:55]

User currently onlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 106, posted (4 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8534 times:

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 105):
Who is flying MIA-MXP?? American.

Correct. American operates a daily, year-round flight between Miami and Milan

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 104):
I am talking on a global perspective. MIA has no flights to the Far East, no flights to Africa, no flights to Oceana and a ME flight that still needs to be proved if it's a viable route.

As I type this SFO has service to every continent but Africa. MIA's global network is not as diverse as SFO, DFW, IAH, LAX, ORD and JFK.

Global perspective? No, you are being intentionally selective to try to prove your point when you, in reality, can't prove it all.

SFO has no service to South America as of next week. And having a single non-stop to Lagos or Sydney does not suddenly make up for the reality that no U.S. airport can match the variety of destinations that LAX, JFK and MIA have.

[Edited 2014-03-23 04:05:09]


a.
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8186 posts, RR: 10
Reply 107, posted (4 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8475 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 100):
It has more international points served than any airport outside of JFK. That's diversity. Yes, it lacks a trans-Pacific flight currently. Given it's geography, that's no shocker. SFO will soon have zero connections to South America and Chicago only has one.

Actually, MIA will never have a TPAC route for the fact that any viable route between MIA and Asia will either be a TATL or polar route 
But on this topic, there are 2 long haul int'l destinations that I find to be glaring misses from MIA: JNB and NRT.

[Edited 2014-03-23 04:41:36]

User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1017 posts, RR: 0
Reply 108, posted (4 months 22 hours ago) and read 8246 times:

I have yet to here how SU is preforming in MIA. Will we ever se SU go daily to MIA? I know TP is flying to MIA 6x weekly this summer with the 343, so I guess we can say that that flight is a success. But is that the same with Russia?

User currently offlineFastphilly From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 109, posted (4 months 22 hours ago) and read 8158 times:

The flights from Russia to MIA are quite far. Do these Russian flights have a stop enroute to MIA?

User currently offlineMesaFlyGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 2926 posts, RR: 4
Reply 110, posted (4 months 21 hours ago) and read 8107 times:
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.

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 109):

The flights from Russia to MIA are quite far. Do these Russian flights have a stop enroute to MIA?

Nope, they're nonstop. SU uses an a330-200 and TransAero uses a 747-400.



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlineFastphilly From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 111, posted (4 months 21 hours ago) and read 8076 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 106):
SFO has no service to South America as of next week. And having a single non-stop to Lagos or Sydney does not suddenly make up for the reality that no U.S. airport can match the variety of destinations that LAX, JFK and MIA have.

With the exception of Air Canada, Aeromexico and Avianca (El Salvador) every foreign carrier out of SFO is a long haul TPAC or TATL flight on a large heavy. I guess a Cayman Airways flight from MIA to Grand Cayman on a 737 carries the same economic and prestige impact as a Air New Zealand SFO-AKL flight on a 744/77W??

Sure MIA has more airlines and destinations but a significant portion of those destinations are concentrated to a region that distance wise isn't much further than a US domestic flight on smaller equipment at that.

It is much more costly and logistically more challenging to operate a TPAC flight than a two to four hour flight to Central America, Caribbean or Northern South America.


User currently offlineFastphilly From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 112, posted (4 months 20 hours ago) and read 7984 times:

MIA has an advantage of being close proximity to a region that has many carriers with limited fleets for expanded international growth on long haul routes.

User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 113, posted (4 months 20 hours ago) and read 7982 times:

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 111):
I guess a Cayman Airways flight from MIA to Grand Cayman on a 737 carries the same economic and prestige impact as a Air New Zealand SFO-AKL flight on a 744/77W??

Ask Pan Am how prestige worked out for them.

You should also verify this with the AA bean counters smiling as they tally the profits from MIA/FLL-PAP.


User currently offlineFastphilly From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 114, posted (4 months 20 hours ago) and read 7962 times:

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 113):
Ask Pan Am how prestige worked out for them.

It was a lot more than just MIA to South America that brought Pan Am to where it was. JFK to Europe, MIA to Latin America and SFO to Asia. All three markets were significant in the global reach and prosperity of Pan Am.

Yes Pan Am started as a small airline in the Caribbean region but it wasn't MIA that was responsible alone for the expansion of that airlines network.


User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 115, posted (4 months 20 hours ago) and read 7916 times:

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 114):

You misunderstood me. Pan Am had to be the global airline and now they don't exist.

I am willing to bet that the average airline executive, especially in the USA, would rather survive on short-haul high yield routes such as MIA-PLS/GCM/PAP than ultra long haul AKL-SFO.


User currently onlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 116, posted (4 months 19 hours ago) and read 7917 times:

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 111):
Sure MIA has more airlines and destinations but a significant portion of those destinations are concentrated to a region that distance wise isn't much further than a US domestic flight on smaller equipment at that.

Fine. Let's compare long-haul destinations (say 5h+ flight time).


SFO:

Amsterdam
Auckland
Beijing
Chengdu
Copenhagen
Dubai
Dublin
Frankfurt
Hong Kong
London-Heathrow
Manila
Munich
Osaka-Kansai
Paris-CDG
San Salvador
Shanghai-Pu Dong
Seoul-Incheon
Sydney
Taipei-Taoyuan
Tokyo-Haneda
Tokyo-Narita
Zurich
TOTAL: 22

Miami:

Amsterdam
Asuncion
Barcelona
Belem
Belo Horizonte
Berlin-Tegel
Brasilia
Brussels
Buenos Aires-EZE
Curitiba
Doha
Dusseldorf
Frankfurt
Fortaleza
Helsinki
La Paz
Lima
Lisbon
London-Heathrow
Madrid
Manaus
Milan-Malpensa
Montevideo
Moscow-Sheremetyevo
Moscow-Vnuokovo
Paris-CDG
Porto Alegre
Recife
Rio de Janeiro-GIG
Rome-Fiumicino
Salvador da Bahia
Sao Paulo-GRU
Santa Cruz
Santiago de Chile
Zurich
TOTAL: 35

Once again, there is significantly more long-haul service from Miami than San Francisco to a wider variety of destinations, and many of those destinations have three or four daily flight, as opposed to one or two from SFO. If you want to exclude South America because MIA is the "so close" and a "natural gateway," then we also have to do the same for San Francisco and Asia.



a.
User currently offlineFastphilly From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 117, posted (4 months 16 hours ago) and read 7734 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 116):
Fine. Let's compare long-haul destinations (say 5h+ flight time).

LMAO!!! A five plus hour flight is a long haul. Oh my God .LOL!!

Any flight over 9/10 hours is long haul. Any flight over 15 hours is ULH.

Talk about lowering the numbers DRASTICLY to the advantage of your airport to prove a point.

SFO and Asia are much further routes than MIA to South America. You won't see 767ER's running TPAC routes that are routine from MIA to South America. The SFO TPAC routes are on larger aircraft so the frequency is less but each flight is hauling more passengers.


I have lived on the northern San Francisco peninsula for over 40 years and I have never once seen a 767 used by an Asian carrier to any North American destination. The range/payload is insufficient.

As for your long hauls to South America. The longest flight is just over 8 hours to SCL. The shortest TPAC flight is just under 9 hours and I'm giving quotes for westbound flights with favorable winds.

Sorry but MIA does not have more long haul routes than SFO. Not even close.


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5172 posts, RR: 4
Reply 118, posted (4 months 15 hours ago) and read 7670 times:

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 117):
You won't see 767ER's running TPAC routes that are routine from MIA to South America

Delta will beg to differ ... including (ex) from SFO.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineFastphilly From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 119, posted (4 months 14 hours ago) and read 7595 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 118):
Delta will beg to differ ... including (ex) from SFO.

Oops, forgot about Delta. That old NW route used a 747, DC-10 and finally an A330 before Delta took over with a 767. DL is pulling the flight within a couple weeks.

I did state "Asian Carrier" in my post but no need to split hairs.

[Edited 2014-03-23 19:24:29]

User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9708 posts, RR: 11
Reply 120, posted (4 months 14 hours ago) and read 7578 times:

So how many airlines will start scheduled service to MIA this year and next year?

A388


User currently onlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 885 posts, RR: 42
Reply 121, posted (4 months 13 hours ago) and read 7544 times:
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Quoting A388 (Reply 120):
So how many airlines will start scheduled service to MIA this year and next year?

This year: Qatar Airways, Finnair, JetairFly, Air Europa, Boliviana de Aviacion, and Insel Air Aruba.

Next year. Great question. One can only tell. Any guesses?



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently onlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 122, posted (4 months 12 hours ago) and read 7438 times:

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 117):
As for your long hauls to South America. The longest flight is just over 8 hours to SCL. The shortest TPAC flight is just under 9 hours and I'm giving quotes for westbound flights with favorable winds.

Sorry but MIA does not have more long haul routes than SFO. Not even close.
MIA actually does have more long-haul flights than SFO. A significant amount more. You don't like that fact, not sure why. It's not even like it's a big deal. Who cares? Even if we say approximately seven hours, that only removes Lima, Belem and Manaus.

Further, you are wrong that SCL is the longest Miami-South America route. It's not, there are a handful longer routes.

You are also wrong at how long that flight is. It is 8 hours and 40 minutes southbound and slightly longer northbound. There are other destinations that are blocked at 9 hours or more.

[Edited 2014-03-23 22:25:09]


a.
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7106 posts, RR: 9
Reply 123, posted (4 months 11 hours ago) and read 7363 times:

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 111):
With the exception of Air Canada, Aeromexico and Avianca (El Salvador) every foreign carrier out of SFO is a long haul TPAC or TATL flight on a large heavy. I guess a Cayman Airways flight from MIA to Grand Cayman on a 737 carries the same economic and prestige impact as a Air New Zealand SFO-AKL flight on a 744/77W??

How about the daily (or 6w? IIRC) Air France A320? Prestigious enough to be counted as a "real" international flight? International is international. JFK, LAX, MIA are in a tier of there own. That is a fact.

As for the topic at hand. Highly doubt all 11 airlines will come in but a few more to start in 2015 would be nice. The growth of MIA is really somethIng these past few years.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8748 posts, RR: 5
Reply 124, posted (4 months 11 hours ago) and read 7333 times:

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 117):
As for your long hauls to South America. The longest flight is just over 8 hours to SCL.

Incorrect. Using distance as a metric to determine the longest flights to/from deep South America and MIA:
1. MIA-MVD-3878 nm
2. MIA-EZE-3829 nm
3. POA-MIA-3732 nm (operates as MIA-CWB-POA-MIA)
4. MIA-GIG-3617 nm
5. MIA-CWB-3559 nm (operates as MIA-CWB-POA-MIA)
6. MIA-SCL-3578 nm
7. MIA-GRU-3539 nm


User currently offlineFastphilly From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 125, posted (4 months 10 hours ago) and read 7288 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 122):
You are also wrong at how long that flight is. It is 8 hours and 40 minutes southbound and slightly longer northbound. There are other destinations that are blocked at 9 hours or more.

Not according to Flightaware. Duration is 8 hours 11 Minutes NORTHBOUND.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/L...0/history/20140325/0115Z/SCEL/KMIA

Quoting flymia (Reply 123):
How about the daily (or 6w? IIRC) Air France A320? Prestigious enough to be counted as a "real" international flight? International is international. JFK, LAX, MIA are in a tier of there own. That is a fact.

No that is opinion. JFK and LAX is in a tier of their own. MIA is not on the same level as LAX or JFK. Both airports connect to every major continent in the world except one.
To say that an airport with a catchment area just over 1/4 the size of JFK and 1/3 the size of LAX is on the same level is laughable.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 124):
Incorrect. Using distance as a metric to determine the longest flights to/from deep South America and MIA:
1. MIA-MVD-3878 nm
2. MIA-EZE-3829 nm
3. POA-MIA-3732 nm (operates as MIA-CWB-POA-MIA)
4. MIA-GIG-3617 nm
5. MIA-CWB-3559 nm (operates as MIA-CWB-POA-MIA)
6. MIA-SCL-3578 nm
7. MIA-GRU-3539 nm

It seems like your standards like a couple other MIA posters on this thread on long hauls are less than many other folks. Perhaps living on the West Coast and having the shortest of the Asian flights at 4,467nm (SFO-NRT) raises the standards.
I don't count sub-4,000nm a long haul flight. The longest flight from Miami to the most furthest South America destination is around 8 hrs. Not long haul in today's airline industry.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8748 posts, RR: 5
Reply 126, posted (4 months 9 hours ago) and read 7231 times:

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 125):
It seems like your standards like a couple other MIA posters on this thread on long hauls are less than many other folks.

The routes that I have listed are indeed considered long-haul routes. Moot point!

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 125):
I don't count sub-4,000nm a long haul flight. The longest flight from Miami to the most furthest South America destination is around 8 hrs.

I'm sure you will consider the SCL-MIA route to be short-haul when LAN deploys the 787 on the route and the flight time decreases to 7 hours and 40 minutes...

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 125):
Perhaps living on the West Coast and having the shortest of the Asian flights at 4,467nm (SFO-NRT) raises the standards.

The majority of my flying originates in Chile. This year I have flown SCL-LAX 4839 nm in January and SCL-JFK 4429 nm during February, plus SCL-MAD 5777 nm (continuing onwards to FRA on the same a/c) twice this year so far. I will soon fly SCL-JFK 4429 nm in early April, and will fly SCL-AKL 5223 nm (continuing onwards to SYD on the same a/c) late April. And I'm not even counting the flights I've flown on the SCL-MIA route this year. But then again, flying primarily out of an airport that is geographically isolated from many parts of the world means that I'm not accustomed to flying long-haul routes as you. Looking forward to Comodoro Black this year!  


User currently offlineFastphilly From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 127, posted (4 months 8 hours ago) and read 7200 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 126):
The routes that I have listed are indeed considered long-haul routes. Moot point!

Considered by who?

There is over 200 flights that exceed 5,000 nm. A sub 4,000nm route is not long haul by todays standards. This isn't the 1970's anymore.

[Edited 2014-03-24 01:06:33]

User currently offlineFastphilly From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 128, posted (4 months 8 hours ago) and read 7170 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 126):
The majority of my flying originates in Chile. This year I have flown SCL-LAX 4839 nm in January and SCL-JFK 4429 nm during February, plus SCL-MAD 5777 nm (continuing onwards to FRA on the same a/c) twice this year so far. I will soon fly SCL-JFK 4429 nm in early April, and will fly SCL-AKL 5223 nm (continuing onwards to SYD on the same a/c) late April. And I'm not even counting the flights I've flown on the SCL-MIA route this year. But then again, flying primarily out of an airport that is geographically isolated from many parts of the world means that I'm not accustomed to flying long-haul routes as you. Looking forward to Comodoro Black this year!

Umm, the discussion was long haul flights out of MIA, not SCL


User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 129, posted (4 months ago) and read 7072 times:

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 125):
MIA is not on the same level as LAX or JFK. Both airports connect to every major continent in the world except one.

In some ways MIA is on a different level: the level of HKG SIN and ICN for regional coverage: In this case: Central America, South America and Caribbean.


User currently onlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 130, posted (4 months ago) and read 7068 times:

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 125):
Not according to Flightaware. Duration is 8 hours 11 Minutes NORTHBOUND. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/L.../KMIA

I'm looking at blocked times on OAG. The flight is blocked for 8h50m.

You essentially don't like the fact that MIA has significantly more long-haul service (why? It's not a big deal. Who cares?), so you redefine long-haul to exclude long-haul flights. I guess JFKLHR isn't long haul either.



a.
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9708 posts, RR: 11
Reply 131, posted (3 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6949 times:

Guys, let's stop the whole discussion of what a long haul flight is and focus on the actual thread. I for one am interested in seeing whether EY and EK will be flying to MIA as well and what aircraft they will use (probably 777?).

A388


User currently onlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 885 posts, RR: 42
Reply 132, posted (3 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6910 times:
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Quoting A388 (Reply 131):
I for one am interested in seeing whether EY and EK will be flying to MIA as well and what aircraft they will use (probably 777?)

EK and EY will eventually have flights to MIA at the same time. Not now or at least for the next 10 years. I for one see EY coming first. But I have my doubts so I'm assuming now that it will be EK. No way EK will let EY win to MIA, IMO.



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7492 posts, RR: 24
Reply 133, posted (3 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6901 times:

Fastphilly, you're argument seems to be that MIA is less international than SFO because the planes don't have to travel as far before reaching their destination. I don't think that's sound logic. If that we're true DFW would be the most international because, effective July 1, 4 of the 10 longest flights worldwide originate here. Yet you will never hear me argue that because it isn't true.


Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently onlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 134, posted (3 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6892 times:

Quoting Miami (Reply 132):
EK and EY will eventually have flights to MIA at the same time. Not now or at least for the next 10 years. I for one see EY coming first. But I have my doubts so I'm assuming now that it will be EK. No way EK will let EY win to MIA, IMO.

Ten years?!? If they are both flying to MIA within three to four years, nobody should be shocked. EK has made it's MIA intentions clear, and if ET continues strong ties with AA, a 3x weekly service is entirely feasible. These airlines don't operate on traditional airline economic business models, because if they did none of them would fly to MIA.



a.
User currently onlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 885 posts, RR: 42
Reply 135, posted (3 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6827 times:
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Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 134):
ET

EY*. Sure we can see EY but it depends on the lack of aircraft. They have 2 77L in their current fleet, and 3 more to come. Right now the 2 is being deployed to AMS. If I am correct. And the other 3 will go to LAX and DFW.

They have 77W, but won't start with. 777-8X and 777-9X, but comes in about 10 years from now. And 787-9, but what I see is the lack of cargo. 2 big international freight airports. Hard to make it profitable with a 787-9

Unless AMS, LAX, or DFW get upgraded. We can't see EY at MIA anytime soon. My guesses is that LAX or AMS will get upgraded to a 77W.

Same for EK. EK doesn't have enough 77L to start MIA. They recently upgraded SEA to a 77W. Giving the "free" 77L to ORD. If we want to see EK at MIA. EK needs to upgrade BOS or ORD. Which they will eventfully upgrade to 77W or A380.

But also then comes the talks that MIA will not be the 10th EK US destination. Or that the market should mature first with QR before we see EK at MIA.

-Miami



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently onlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 136, posted (3 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6804 times:

Quoting Miami (Reply 135):
But also then comes the talks that MIA will not be the 10th EK US destination.

From who?

It or EWR will probably be #10.



a.
User currently offlinebagoldex From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 316 posts, RR: 0
Reply 137, posted (3 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6770 times:

I'm not sure I see much point in discussing what constitutes a long haul flight or who has more of them. Yes, it appears that Miami has a greater number however San Francisco offers better connectivity to the cities and the economies that matter.

User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8186 posts, RR: 10
Reply 138, posted (3 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6716 times:

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 117):
LMAO!!! A five plus hour flight is a long haul. Oh my God .LOL!!
Any flight over 9/10 hours is long haul. Any flight over 15 hours is ULH.

You'll find that it varies based on who you ask and on how different airlines categorize their service. Usually somewhere between 5+ and 7+ is the general consensus. But never 9-10+. For example, Air Berlin thinks that a 4 hour flight is a Long Haul flight for them:
"the eastern Mediterranean region (Israel, Syria, Lebanon) / the Gulf States / Iraq / Iran."
http://www.airberlin.com/site/faq.php?LANG=eng&ID=1265

At the end of the day this childish discussion is pointless because the SFO cheerleaders will never accept that MIA is more international than SFO no matter how much evidence it is provided  


User currently offlineFastphilly From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 139, posted (3 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6607 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 131):
Guys, let's stop the whole discussion of what a long haul flight is and focus on the actual thread. I for one am interested in seeing whether EY and EK will be flying to MIA as well and what aircraft they will use (probably 777?).

Fair anough and my opoligies for derailing the thread. MIA is a fine city and is one of US's crown jewels for international tourism.

As far as EY or EK also serving MIA, I think both carriers will stay on the fence for the time being. MIA doesn't have a significant Indian/ME population and with QR being in OW and serving the route MIA will be well served. There will be no significant connection options for EY and EK for ME flights.


User currently offlinejetblue1965 From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 974 posts, RR: 0
Reply 140, posted (3 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6614 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 138):
At the end of the day this childish discussion is pointless because the SFO cheerleaders will never accept that MIA is more international than SFO no matter how much evidence it is provided

MIA has a lot of 2-hour island-hopping services that are "international" but nothing close to long-haul.

I guess the difference is that MIA may have more "international" service but it's mostly Latin America and Europe, with token services to YYZ and YUL. Basically, 2 continents outside.

SFO gets international service from Asia, Australia, Europe, and depending on how you count SAL, South America too (there's a LIM service that's going away very soon). So SFO is more diverse even if MIA is higher volume.


User currently onlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 141, posted (3 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6541 times:

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 140):
I guess the difference is that MIA may have more "international" service but it's mostly Latin America and Europe, with token services to YUL

Multiple daily flights to Montreal, Toronto, as well as Calgary, is "token?" Admittedly most of Miami's flights to Canada use FLL, but there are nonetheless up to 8 daily flights to Toronto, four to Montreal and one to Calgary.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 140):
I guess the difference is that MIA may have more "international" service but it's mostly Latin America and Europe

I don't understand why people like to shrug off Latin America as being so insignificant, but alas that's what it is. Want to guess what the second and third biggest U.S.-Canada local markets are after New York-Toronto?

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 140):
SFO gets international service from Asia, Australia, Europe, and depending on how you count SAL, South America too (there's a LIM service that's going away very soon).

Actually, based on the way you worded MIA, this should read "but its mostly to Asia and Europe, with token services to AKL, SYD and SAL." And nobody considers SAL as South America.

[Edited 2014-03-24 13:59:17]

[Edited 2014-03-24 14:00:04]

[Edited 2014-03-24 14:12:55]


a.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24786 posts, RR: 22
Reply 142, posted (3 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6388 times:

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 110):
Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 109):

The flights from Russia to MIA are quite far. Do these Russian flights have a stop enroute to MIA?

Nope, they're nonstop. SU uses an a330-200 and TransAero uses a 747-400.

Moscow-MIA is about 300 nm shorter than LAX which SU has been operating nonstop for years using various types including the 763 and currently the A332.


User currently onlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 885 posts, RR: 42
Reply 143, posted (3 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6277 times:
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Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 139):
As far as EY or EK also serving MIA, I think both carriers will stay on the fence for the time being. MIA doesn't have a significant Indian/ME population and with QR being in OW and serving the route MIA will be well served. There will be no significant connection options for EY and EK for ME flights.

MIA is supposedly getting service from RJ and AA to TLV



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1017 posts, RR: 0
Reply 144, posted (3 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6213 times:

How is SU preforming yields wise to MIA?
Mark do you see QR goinf eventually daily to MIA in less than a year?

[Edited 2014-03-24 18:52:20]

User currently onlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 885 posts, RR: 42
Reply 145, posted (3 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6206 times:
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Quoting miaintl (Reply 144):

You ask to many questions... Lol.

Qatar could go daily. With lots of connections to help. It should.

SU yields to MIA are really good in the winter



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7106 posts, RR: 9
Reply 146, posted (3 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6095 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 144):
How is SU preforming yields wise to MIA?

They are still here right? Seems like things are going alright for them.

Quoting miaintl (Reply 144):
QR goinf eventually daily to MIA in less than a year?

Less than a year I doubt it. In a few years, sure maybe.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineFastphilly From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 147, posted (3 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6008 times:

Quoting Miami (Reply 143):
MIA is supposedly getting service from RJ and AA to TLV

I can see AA starting the TLV route because there is a significant Jewish population in MIA. BTW, why did LY cancel MIA?

RJ is a bit more iffy especially if AA begins MIA-TLV. The O&D in South Florida is not sufficient for QR, EY and EK to have service. Besides connections from AA which will be limited from the Southeast and the Miami metro's low O&D numbers to that region is not enough to support three carriers. Even two is a stretch.

The thought of Latin America connections is a moot point because all three serve the largest markets in South America already.


User currently onlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 885 posts, RR: 42
Reply 148, posted (3 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5789 times:
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Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 147):
BTW, why did LY cancel MIA?

I believe because of the CAT 2. And for fuel prices. Not 100% sure.

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 147):

RJ is a bit more iffy especially if AA begins MIA-TLV. The O&D in South Florida is not sufficient for QR, EY and EK to have service. Besides connections from AA which will be limited from the Southeast and the Miami metro's low O&D numbers to that region is not enough to support three carriers. Even two is a stretch.

RJ wants to start MIA via VIE. So we'll have to wait and see how that goes.



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1017 posts, RR: 0
Reply 149, posted (3 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5723 times:

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 147):

Fastphilly do you believe MIA can support at least one carrier to the Middle East? What are your predictions for the QR flight, do you believe the AA feed to Latin America can make it profitable?


User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 150, posted (3 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5695 times:

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 147):
The thought of Latin America connections is a moot point because all three serve the largest markets in South America already.

Mexico (primarily MEX), Colombia, and Central America are decent sized holes in the ME3 network that can easily be filled via MIA connections. I wouldn't be surprised if a Middle East businessman has some money squirreled away in GCM or PLS as well.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7492 posts, RR: 24
Reply 151, posted (3 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5646 times:

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 147):
Besides connections from AA which will be limited from the Southeast and the Miami metro's low O&D numbers to that region is not enough to support three carriers. Even two is a stretch.

The real wild card will be to what degree QR stimulates the market. Right now, I think three carriers to MIA is out of the question in the short term. The market isnt big enough. But once QR gets in there and the market gets stimulated, who knows?



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently onlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 152, posted (3 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5676 times:

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 147):
The thought of Latin America connections is a moot point because all three serve the largest markets in South America already.

It is not moot whatsoever. Panama City, Lima, Mexico City, Bogota and Caracas are major Latin American business centers with no Middle East connections. And because of temperature, altitude and/or government restrictions, it is unlikely that, especially BOG, CCS and MEX, will see a non-stop flight to the region anytime soon. Miami also provides easy connections to Port of Spain, Maracaibo, and Medellin, all major oil cities, as well as Providenciales, Nassau and Grand Cayman, which are large offshore banking cities. None of those last six are going to provide volume feed, but they do provide high-yield feed.



a.
User currently offlineFastphilly From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 153, posted (3 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5560 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 149):
Fastphilly do you believe MIA can support at least one carrier to the Middle East? What are your predictions for the QR flight, do you believe the AA feed to Latin America can make it profitable?

I believe the QR flight can make it on a bare bones schedule since it's OW. Even though MIA metro isn't known for having a large Muslim population (around 75,000) currently and an Indian population accounting for around .07 % of the total Miami metro population I think the route has a chance.

As for Latin America connections maybe some Caribbean and Central America connections but QR already serves GRU and EZE and they codeshare with G3 so that will siphon off a lot of Latin America traffic that MIA would get. Plus they don't have to deal with the US transiting issues regarding visas.

This QR flight if it makes it will depend on O&D and AA's domestic southeast network.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8186 posts, RR: 10
Reply 154, posted (3 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5506 times:

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 153):
As for Latin America connections maybe some Caribbean and Central America connections but QR already serves GRU and EZE and they codeshare with G3 so that will siphon off a lot of Latin America traffic that MIA would get. Plus they don't have to deal with the US transiting issues regarding visas.

Right but it makes little sense as a passenger to go all the way down to GRU to connect back up to places like LIM, BOG, CCS, PTY, and even northern Brazil. Not to mention the GRU schedule is horrible, especially the return flight which departs GRU at 3am. I bet even JFK sees more LatAm connections for QR, than GRU. There's no reason why MIA shouldn't be QR's primary LatAm connecting hub.


User currently onlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 155, posted (3 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5504 times:

Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 153):
This QR flight if it makes it will depend on O&D and AA's domestic southeast network.

The QR flight will be fine. You are underestimating how easily ME carriers stimulate the markets. When you take that fact, compared to the fact that Miami is arguably the easiest U.S. city outside of New York to stimulate traffic for, it'll do fine.

MIAMOW and MIALIS, for example, have seen local markets grow over 150% since non-stops introduced two years ago. MIADOH will likely grow by around 350-450% from only around 5,000 annual boardings now.

Miami-India itself is a decent sized market, and growing in double digits annually.

Emirates will join QR in short order and provide some competition. These airlines rarely pull out of markets and don't operate on common economic principals, and that's partly how they've created the networks they have (undoubtedly sustaining large losses on many new stations).



a.