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MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 40  
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Posted (4 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 54245 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Due to length part 39 was locked for further contributions. Please feel free to continue your discussion in part 40:

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 1 (by Longhornmaniac Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 2 (by LipeGIG Mar 7 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 3 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 4 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 5 (by SA7700 Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 6 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 7 (by SA7700 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 8 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 9 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 9 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 10 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 11 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 12 (by SA7700 Mar 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 13 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 14 (by SA7700 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 15 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 16 (by SA7700 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 17 (by 777ER Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 18 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 19 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 20 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 21 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 22 (by SA7700 Mar 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 23 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 24 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 25 (by SA7700 Mar 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 26 (by SA7700 Mar 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 27 (by SA7700 Mar 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 28 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 29 (by SA7700 Mar 16 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 30 (by SA7700 Mar 16 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 31 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 16 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 32 (by ManuCH Mar 17 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 33 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 17 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 34 (by SA7700 Mar 18 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 35 (by SA7700 Mar 18 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 36 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 18 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 37 (by SA7700 Mar 19 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 38 (by jetblueguy22 Mar 19 2014 in Civil Aviation)

MH370 Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing Enroute KUL-PEK Part 39 (by SA7700 Mar 20 2014 in Civil Aviation)



**********************************************************************************************

**** ADDITIONAL NEWS REPORTS ****

MH370: search for missing Malaysia Airlines plane extended to southern Indian Ocean

Najib's full press statement on MH370

Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370: What we know so far

MISSING MH370: Timeline

Flight MH370: Police focus on pilots as search for airliner goes on - live updates

Flight MH370: New timeline casts doubt on pilot deception theory

MISSING MH370: ACARS cannot be disabled

MISSING MH370: Search for missing aircraft above politics: Hishamuddin


***********************************************************************************************


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Enjoy the forums!

Regards and thanks for your co-operation,

SA7700


When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
244 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLTC8K6 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 54143 times:

Quoting COEWR787 (Reply 248):

Swissair 111 was 21 minutes from the smell of smoke to impact. Can't see how we are going to compare that to MH370.

So hypoxic pilots programmed in 3 waypoints? Or pilots with a cockpit on fire programmed in three waypoints?

The plane didn't make weird meanderings, if the info we have is to be believed.


User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6127 posts, RR: 30
Reply 2, posted (4 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 54098 times:
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I would like to make a request, with all due respect.

In the interest of making these threads a bit richer with info. can we talk more about the recent discovery by the ASMA? and the breaking news resulting from that? At least for today.

I don´t think at this stage we need to be writing stuff about "piano wire being used as a killing instrument in the cockpit" as if this were The Sopranos or that the plane is sitting in "Pakistan waiting for phase II" It just clutters the threads unnecessarily and makes it too hard to keep up.

Valid hypothesis sure, but things like the above...

Maybe we can retake The Soprano hypothesis and the 777-as-a-rocket once the ASMA discoveries turned up concrete leads, wether it is or it is not the plane.

I apologize if I come off as pedant.



MGGS
User currently onlinenupogodi From Canada, joined Mar 2014, 907 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 53885 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 3):
can we talk more about the recent discovery by the ASMA? and the breaking news resulting from that? At least for today.

Not much to talk about until daybreak, which should be in 3-something hours in Perth; aircraft might be en-route before that.



A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
User currently offlineLTC8K6 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 53756 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 3):

Well, I don't think they have discovered anything to talk about.

Have they?

All we have are the sat pics, which look basically like the other sat pics we have been looking at.


User currently onlineFinn350 From Finland, joined Jul 2013, 666 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 53511 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 3):
Valid hypothesis sure, but things like the above...

The problem is that those two examples are valid hypotheses in this unprecedented incident.


User currently offlinedecoder From Finland, joined Jun 2005, 80 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 52955 times:

On a slightly brighter note, it seems like the prevailing currents are pushing the debris towards Australia, and not away from it.

[Edited 2014-03-20 12:13:22]

User currently offlineCOEWR787 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 334 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 52961 times:

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 2):
The plane didn't make weird meanderings, if the info we have is to be believed.

Since none of us have cactually seen the path flown and have only heard various reports ranging from "they followed the waypoints exactly", to "they sort of went by the waypoints". I have no idea what to believe. So if someone wishes to believe one version of it and build theory upon it that is fine. But it does not make that theory any more valid than any other based on a different set of reports.

Ergo there really is no strong basis for discounting the fire theory. Similarly unfortunately there probably is no strong basis for discounting the rogue theory either purely based on the various reports of paths followed.

I know this sort of an inconclusive position is somewhat unsatisfactory. But sometimes that is the nature of reality that is obtained.


User currently offlinepeterinlisbon From Portugal, joined Jan 2006, 455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 52744 times:

I don't understand how the Maldivian sighting is just being ignored. A whole island full of people are saying they saw the plane flying low at exactly the right time and as the government just says "we didn't see it on radar" aand that's the end of it.

User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2948 posts, RR: 29
Reply 9, posted (4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 52454 times:

Search aircraft will depart YPEA at 2130Z, which would put them (P-3s) in the search area around 0130Z. In other words, no news until after 2130EDT, when they reach the search zone.


Note à moi-même - il faut respecter les cons.
User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2948 posts, RR: 29
Reply 10, posted (4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 52345 times:

Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 10):
I don't understand how the Maldivian sighting is just being ignored.

Because it's physically impossible for it to have been there (fuel). Read the previous couple of threads.



Note à moi-même - il faut respecter les cons.
User currently offlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2838 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 52214 times:

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 4):
Not much to talk about until daybreak, which should be in 3-something hours in Perth; aircraft might be en-route before that.
Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 5):
Well, I don't think they have discovered anything to talk about.

I think that's his point. This thread would be a little easier to keep up with if it didn't generate 2-3 additional parts a day. Based on what we know and the fact that nearly all hypotheses have been discussed here ad nauseam already, I'm not sure quantity of posts is better than quality at this point.

[Edited 2014-03-20 12:28:35]


The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineSpeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 52055 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 3):
I would like to make a request, with all due respect.

And I would like to back that...

We've had 39 threads of unadulterated no-holds-barred-never-seen-before-hypotheses-and-conspiracies-and-everything-inbetween.

Here's a sobering thought - lets not forget that there are 239 *people*, that are missing. Souls out there. Its not just 5 letters and numbers (MH370). That is the subject of all this speculation.

The only 'fact' is its still missing. And beating on the crew or whoever, to be brutally honest, is wearing thin. I know I don't have to read it (I am here out of my own will, bringing with me the technical goodies behind ATC and SMC), but could we respect these missing human beings a little more?

Some here will be right and some here be wrong. But I doubt now that anything could be added in respect of speculation that hasn't repeatedly come up in the previous 39 threads... And wading through chemistry discussions is a waste of time.

Thanks go out to RCAIR1 for his daily sanity check/collation of the current information whether it be debunked or valid.



A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offlineakberc From Pakistan, joined Mar 2014, 21 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 52052 times:

Quoting BoeingBear (Reply 255):
From Reply 255 in Thread 39: In case you haven't heard, earlier this week the Israeli government massively extended its ADIZ to something like a 2.5-hour range from its airspace. Do you think that's just a coincidence?
lves out.

Maybe not a co-incidence, just prudence. However, most likely not based on a confirmed imminent attack from 9M-MRO. The news told us that Israel conducted an air strike on Syria yesterday, so it is logical to put up one's air defences when breaching another country's airspace as any attack from the other country during the attack would be justified self-defence.


User currently offlineLTC8K6 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 51924 times:

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 11):
Search aircraft will depart YPEA at 2130Z, which would put them (P-3s) in the search area around 0130Z. In other words, no news until after 2130EDT, when they reach the search zone.

That's way too long. Tell them to hurry up...

EDIT: I should clarify that this was supposed to be funny.

[Edited 2014-03-20 12:33:15]

User currently offlineJimJupiter From Germany, joined Sep 2011, 215 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 51951 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 3):
In the interest of making these threads a bit richer with info. can we talk more about the recent discovery by the ASMA? and the breaking news resulting from that? At least for today.

  

I want to post this link again, sombeody else posted it late in thread #39:

http://people.hofstra.edu/geotrans/e...1en/img/map_strategic_passages.png

For the "no way nobody sees this in 12 days, it's a cover up!" crowd. Please, spot the location of todays search area and estimate, how much ship (and air, for that matter) traffic the area down there ususally sees.



One is born, one runs up bills, one dies.
User currently offlinenamezero111111 From Germany, joined Mar 2014, 13 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 51946 times:

On another note:

Does anyone else find the AMSA coverage detail / information provided to be exceptional?
Compared to what we were getting at the Malaysian press conferences, I think Australia's transparency is nothing short of stellar.


User currently offlineLTC8K6 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 51801 times:

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 13):
I think that's his point. This thread would be a little easier to keep up with if it didn't generate 2-3 additional parts a day. Based on what we know and the fact that nearly all theories have been discussed here ad nauseam already, I'm not sure quantity of posts is better than quality at this point.

True. A lot of posts are repeats as well. I try to keep up and not post what's already been covered.

rcair has done a great job.

Perhaps the mods could close the thread until an hour before news is expected from down under?


User currently offlineflyzapper From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 5 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 51849 times:

Regarding the debris ~1500 miles from Perth, I did some research about surface currents in the Indian Ocean and the direction of the currents. If the plane crashed 12 days ago, the debris could have drifted 150-300 miles NE towards Australia using conservative numbers, over 500 miles using faster currents and drift speeds. Let's use 250 miles as a good guess. Would the current location of the debris and the back-extrapolated crash point of 250 miles SW of the current location put the possible crash location outside of the south corridor of possible last locations?

User currently offlineladdb From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 51408 times:

Quoting namezero111111 (Reply 18):
Does anyone else find the AMSA coverage detail / information provided to be exceptional?

Yes. They are very professional and have shared their information.


User currently offlineDTWPurserBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 1546 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 51295 times:

I think the saddest thing about this disaster is that we may never know exactly what happened. It is entirely possible the wreckage will never be found and even if it is, any pilot that took the time to disable the transponders and ACARS would know to pull the breakers for the CVR and FDR. Even if the boxes are found I fear they will be useless. If portions of the cockpit are recovered it may be possible to learn from the settings of various breakers and instruments what happened but at these depths I have serious doubts. This is an awful result for the families and loved ones involved, not knowing where their loved one is resting and why. My heart goes out to them and the thousands of good, decent, professional MAS employees worldwide that are experiencing their own special horror.


Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
User currently offlineDTW2HYD From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1721 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 51034 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 3):
can we talk more about the recent discovery by the ASMA? and the breaking news resulting from that? At least for today.

Ok, staying on theory of the day, one question. Would search planes start at day break or reach site by day break?

Also, I think no head of the country (any country) should make any statements about this event. This is not a great PR event.


User currently offlineJoeinTX From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 22 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 50883 times:

@DTWPB

I agree. the longer we go from the original act the chances of making real determination about what transpired aboard that airplane diminish. Even if he/they/whoever did not turn off the CVR that fact that the flight carried on for several more hours means that whatever happened in the cockpit (struggle, coordinated effort, "bang")when the aircraft made it's initial westward course change will likely never be known.


User currently offlineLTC8K6 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 51397 times:

I do not think they will find anything, mainly because I don't think the pictures show any debris.

But I am not a photo analyst, and I certainly hope they find the plane.


User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 24, posted (4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 52252 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 19):
Perhaps the mods could close the thread until an hour before news is expected from down under?

Thanks for the suggestion.

Unfortunately that is not a viable option as all the moderators are located in different time zones and not necessarily on duty on a 24/7 basis. Due to fact that we perform our moderating duties during our own spare time, it may happen that we miss a news conference or media release, which would lead to chaos in the forums should the main thread be locked.


Thanks and regards,

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
25 Kaiarahi : Reach the site. Friggin time zones! Obviously they were invented to continue concealing evidence from the public .... And it may be long after 0130Z
26 huxrules : Well I can see either a bomb or super rapid fire causing the comms issue (one in a million comms issue). Pilots programmed a turn back and the plane d
27 Post contains links katekebo : Don't know if this has been mentioned before, but The Sydney Morning Herald says that the images shared by Australian officials were actually taken by
28 kevinkevin : I'm hoping this is the breakthrough we need. I'm praying.
29 Post contains images David L : Where have you been for the last week and a half?
30 LTC8K6 : Okay, so the P-8A radar contacts were a freighter and two dolphin pods? David Wright ABC News reporter: tweets: Nada today - except for a freighter an
31 Post contains images 65mustang : Do you recognize the airport on the screen of the pilots simulator shown in this photo? It looks like Polonia International or maybe Phuket doesn't it
32 spacecadet : The DFDR records 25 hours of data. The CVR records 2. The CVR wouldn't have anything on it from the initial turn west, but it would have plenty to te
33 Kaiarahi : It doesn't look anything like either of them, unless they've expanded incredibly in the last few months.
34 redflyer : I agree, I'm not sure it's debris from MH370. But, then again, I'm not a photo analyst either. I will say, though, that for an object that is 24m in
35 Trin : Exactly. A two-hour long CVR recording will be priceless and anybody who asserts otherwise is just burying their head in the sand. Whether something
36 Post contains links Finn350 : Either Sydney Morning Herald or ABC News is reporting incorrectly. ABC News claims that the images were taken by a DigitalGlobe commercial satellite
37 Gonzalo : Please excuse my ignorance, but I was listening that due to the very far location of the debris off the Australian coast, the time for actual searchin
38 JoeinTX : @34 Good info. Good to know there'll be something recorded to examine if it's discovered.
39 Kaiarahi : P-3s (depending on the model) have about 16 hours endurance. Flight time to the search area from YPEA is approximately 4 hours, depending on winds, s
40 namezero111111 : There are 4 aircraft involved in this search. Two Australian planes, one from New Zealand, and one American plane. Afaik two P3's, one P8, and a C130
41 turjo101 : Those who are still going on about tribal areas of Pakistan - are completely disregarding common sense...Consider the following before bringing up Pak
42 Post contains links and images flyingturtle : I've tried to enhance these pictures: left pane: http://i60.tinypic.com/2hf48p4.jpg middle pane: http://i58.tinypic.com/jzjf5u.jpg Excuse me for the
43 katekebo : Well, I think both could be right. The pictures shown to the public may not be the same they used to identify the debris. If you look at the pictures
44 Finn350 : Yes, but quoting the SMH article: And quoting member katekebo: To me it sounds like the reporter cooked up the story.[Edited 2014-03-20 13:45:37][Edi
45 Kaiarahi : 2 RAAF P-3s, 1 RNZAF P-3, 1 USAF P-8. An RAAF C-130 was used yesterday to drop marker buoys (to calculate drift), but I don't know if it will be used
46 k83713 : It's Amsterdam Schiphol. https://goo.gl/maps/fj02P [Edited 2014-03-20 13:49:28][Edited 2014-03-20 13:56:45]
47 namezero111111 : I surmise you meant to quote Post 41, as I never said that..
48 anstar : If it were a bomb or fire, I doubt the aircraft would have flown for 7 hours + to reach the Indian Ocean search area.
49 huxrules : I think it is AMS. I should clarify- They need to look UNDERWATER for clues at the IGARI intersection. Something heavy could have fallen off (or been
50 studedave : Make that USN P-8. The USAF wouldn't dare... StudeDave
51 pliersinsight : Unless the breakers were pulled for the FDR and CVR.
52 747megatop : An aircraft carrier could have helped speed up the search? Wishful thinking that one of the countries could lend one for this search.
53 davidzill : I think we will find nothing, debris were floating in an area of volatile seas and strong currents, known for rogue waves, etc. I think we have passed
54 Gonzalo : Thank you Kaiarahi and namezero111111, that makes more sense. Let's hope the ships and aircraft working together can confirm or discard soon if what t
55 canoecarrier : I wouldn't assume the photo we have been shown is the only one they have of the object(s) either. I'm more familiar with aerial photos taken from air
56 Post contains images Kaiarahi : Duhh - of course. I typed a string of xxAFs without thinking. As a former C-130 driver who has hung out with P-3 drivers ....
57 Finn350 : Actually it is now Post 40, the number keeps changing faster than I can update the reply.
58 Kaiarahi : How?
59 David L : Ah, right.
60 DTW2HYD : DigitalGlobe has couple of satellites with less than 50 cm max resolution, but they can only sell those images with less than 50 cm to US Military. L
61 canoecarrier : IIRC that's in the neighborhood of what the better GoogleEarth images are like.
62 MSY-MSP : Not to add fuel to the fire or anything else, but there are some interesting things that I am hearing from a variety of different sources. First of al
63 David L : We're not conducting the search. Also, I think you'll find this is new information, not something the Malaysians have been sitting on.
64 747megatop : More aircraft searching more area in the Ocean in that region and staying aloft for more time before heading back to the carrier for refueling. The 4
65 capri : I think images are credible and the delay to release them is to degrade them by not showing to the public how accurate these satellites be and protect
66 rj777 : I just hope they find the wreckage before we end up with Part 100! But seriously, I bet if anybody can find the plane, the Aussies can! Hopefully we w
67 Azure : Actually the Malaysians did sit on it for 4 days, according to the WSJ. I can't link the article, just google : " Critical Data Was Delayed in Search
68 capri : from what I heard on CNN, the reason for delay is these pictures had to be downloaded to a ground station in colorado the sen to Australia and they h
69 David L : That's about the Inmarsat data, not about these satellite photos.
70 SimonDanger : IIRC, the FDR keeps up to 25 hours of data, while the CVR only saves 2 hours...why? Why is voice not able to be compressed down small enough that it t
71 redflyer : On the CVR, I couldn't agree more. I'm surprised in this day and age of relatively cheap memory that only two hours of audio is recorded (yes, I real
72 Post contains links BackSeater : Images collected by DigitalGlobe: maybe GeoEye-1 Looking at a copy of the raw AMSA provided panchromatic picture, I found the pixel size to be close t
73 antskip : I am nowhere near so pessimistic. What is possibly the wreckage field of the was in clear view on March 16th, when the initial low definition satelli
74 Stevemchey : What's the average depth of the Indian Ocean in the area that is being searched right now?
75 gatorman96 : Although it takes a while for these aircraft to make it to the search site, they are heavily equipped with SAR equipment and they can loiter signific
76 Post contains links twincessna340a : The date of the "new" satellite data is 8/16/14 http://www.amsa.gov.au/media/incidents/images/DIGO_00718_01_14.jpg
77 gatorman96 : I believe others have posted it's in the 2500m range, but quickly falls off to 4000m. On the bright side, the sea floor is relatively flat which shou
78 zeke : No, the high loiter times of 16-17+ hours are only applicable when there is no transit and a couple of engines are shut down early. Expect around 2 h
79 gatorman96 : I think you meant 4/16/2014, which would've been Sunday.
80 fooflyboy : I think because historically that was all that was relevant to any investigation. That thinking may change to cover the possibility of a rogue pilot
81 Lindenwold : Did Australia have these specific images of the two objects four days ago or just a radar map they needed to go over?
82 SimonDanger : On the video, I'm not sure a video recorder could provide a lot more information that can't already be gleaned from a FDR and CVR. I mean, after all,
83 boeingforever : wouldn't the plane sink to the bottom? why would it be on the surface.
84 nm2582 : The development cycles for technology like flash memory (which is what I assume the CVR uses) are many times faster than the development cycle for a
85 Post contains images jpetekyxmd80 : I think no one knows what month it is!!
86 aw70 : As much as I would prefer this to be the case (due to the people on board potentially still being alive in this scenario), it does have one considera
87 gatorman96 : Not sure what the turn around time from collection of image to finished product, but you also have to consider the time it took for the analyst to ac
88 akberc : Thank you for some common sense re: Pakistan, India and Iran. Nation states, and especially those with mature civil aviation (private airlines, autho
89 David L : Which, as I understand it, is the date it was taken, not the date when the objects were noticed.
90 Lindenwold : Big storm coming in this weekend, hopefully we have some major developments today. Watching CNN, it looks like the search will continue any min.
91 Post contains links and images twincessna340a : March is the 3rd month, oops.... I found a good map: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Diamantinatopography.svg New debris located roughly 40 S 90 E
92 gatorman96 : Agreed. Then we have to consider image processing time and the time it took for an analyst(s) to spot the object.
93 Lindenwold : Thanks for the clarification David L and gatorman.
94 65mustang : DigitalGlobe is a US company so technically the images were taken by a US satellite.
95 spacecadet : Which would pretty much sew up the cause of the crash, wouldn't it? I will say it again more clearly: if the CVR and FDR are found, and the media are
96 aw70 : We have gone over this in detail in previous threads. It would be possible if you shadow some legit commercial flight. Keep close to another airliner
97 akberc : The FDR may not tell us the details, but it will tell us whether it was foul play or a 6-hour zombie flight from a certain point. That should be enou
98 nupogodi : 9M-MRO was built in 2002 and would not have used the same technology as in 1994 for the recorders.
99 fooflyboy : If this case, you might learn WHO the hijacker was. But you're right.
100 SimonDanger : Because, as has been pointed out numerous times, planes aren't built to be pilot-proof. The FDR is 25 hours long because it can be useful to have data
101 JAAlbert : Hah! Not being employed in an aviation profession, I was thinking perhaps the date was some sort of aviation code that lay persons such as myself jus
102 Mouldypete : On the balance of probabilities, we can assume the plane flew until the fuel was exhausted and surely nobody would hi-jack a flight with barely just e
103 NotAPilotYet : Curious about the DCVRs (and google isn't a lot of help here - can't distinguish between DCVRs and DVRs until page 30 even with aviation terms). We kn
104 akberc : Yes, sorry, forgot the shadowing theory that was discussed before. That may be possible.
105 nupogodi : I did this calculation earlier in the thread. If you wanted to record 48kHz @ 24 bits per sample (way better than CD quality, way greater range than
106 Post contains links lucaspithan : Take a look at this crash that happened in Brazil in 1989. Could it happen in the case of MH370? Or something like that? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
107 ikramerica : The amount of memory in a 16GB iPod would be sufficient for 25 hours at lossless quality. Granted you'd want military grade robust memory that could
108 747megatop : What privacy reasons? The flight crews are there on official business doing a job. It is not like someone's home is being intrusively recorded. Almos
109 Kaiarahi : Except that almost all the aircraft on a carrier are unsuited for searching. A typical USN carrier has 4 FA-18 squadrons (fighters, unsuited because
110 Post contains links cbrboy : For those who want to understand the southern search operations - keep an eye on the AMSA website media page. Information gleaned from breakfast telev
111 bond007 : In this scenario, unlike any other incident, the earlier missing part of the CVR might well be the most important, and the last few hours useless. Yo
112 jelliesR : Forget just audio, almost every car in Russia seemingly has a dashcam recording sometimes two channels of HQ video. There should be video in the cock
113 Mortyman : Up to 4000 meters ...
114 zeke : The images were taken around midday on the 16th local time, what has not been said is when the images were supplied to Australia. The images contain
115 nupogodi : Right, but for example let's say you have a conversation with your F/O about you cheating on your wife. The flight after you encounters an event that
116 nupogodi : The Russian dashcams can't withstand 300gs and 30 minutes of a jet fuel fire (or whatever the regulatory requirements are). We have discussed ad-naus
117 Post contains images NotAPilotYet : nupogod - thank you. I don't know how I missed it in the billions (Sagan voice) of posts I've read - I apologize for making you repeat. Thank you for
118 jelliesR : I'm not saying use a consumer item. What I'm saying is that if it is prudent to record for the sake of accidents 2 to 4 occupants in a car, spending
119 DJM18 : A twist on the shadow theory: This again is pure speculation but perhaps the intent was not to shadow but rather to crash one plane into another. They
120 theaviator380 : I was told by someone on this forum itself that, in this time and age paths are already fed in FMS, Pilots just need to pull them on screen and selec
121 nupogodi : IIRC that is about the size of the main CVR canister (the part that holds the data).
122 Capt747Ret : I’ve followed this similar train of thought almost from the start, or at least variations of it. The Captain wanted to go out in a way that would ma
123 lucaspithan : wow! Thats worse than AF447. Its gonna take a lot of time to find de black boxes.
124 777stl : Other than a VX squadron and the PMRF, the S-3 has been retired from active service.
125 cbrboy : Agree that this is the most likely scenario. It is also most likely that he has succeeded and the wreckage will never be found.
126 nupogodi : I agree that there is nothing holding them back from recording audio, video, anything they want, for as long as they want, from the entire pressure v
127 theaviator380 : What time SAR team was suppose to reach there? It's morning in Perth now ..so may be in another 2-3 hours will be day light around suspected area?
128 studedave : The EA-6Bs are just about gone. EF-18s are replacing them. The S-3Bs were like a mini P-3- they hunted subs, and more. But they have been gone for YE
129 stuyyz : too bad they don't have satellite imagery from early Saturday morning 3/8/2014. They probably would have caught the entire plane flying.... this would
130 Lindenwold : i was under the impression that the sar has continued already today. i'm sorry, i'm wrong. first plane is headed toward possible debris field, 1500 m
131 Kaiarahi : What's the replacement? I know the electronics were heavily modified in 2006-07, and it was determined that they were at about 50% of their structura
132 MSY-MSP : Not that this is the case, but running with it. The one thing that has been the consistent with Al-Qaida and this generation is they don't do anythin
133 DTW2HYD : And yet airlines have enough bandwidth to provide Inflight WiFi to browse internet and watch YouTube. Issue is not bandwidth, issue is monopoly.
134 jelliesR : You forget that it wasn't picked randomly, it was his first flight after quite a personal setback. Imagine if a citizen were invested in a good outco
135 cbrboy : See reply 115 above. It will take the first P-3 about 4 to 5 hours to reach the search zone. They probably departed in the last 90 minutes.
136 studedave : There really wasn't one. StudeDave
137 MarkAK : Hi, great forum... This is my first post. Questions about the FMS and the waypoints. I'm trying to discern the pilot(s) intent on programming those wa
138 theaviator380 : Sorry if I missed it. I hope weather stays good and help SAR team. Brilliant summary and very possible hypothesis. Only one thing in it, can crew, F/
139 SeeTheWorld : There are several extremely plausible reasons why it might be suicide, which have been mentioned over and over starting in Thread #1.[Edited 2014-03-
140 Lindenwold : i heard they have a 48 hour window before weather gets really bad.
141 nupogodi : Most in-flight WiFi is through ground stations. Broadband connectivity over the water through satellite is a fairly recent development, and fantastic
142 BravoUniform : While we're all waiting for the SAR to resume, I have a question for you 777 illuminati. A number of planes are specially modified for high elevation
143 SeeTheWorld : If that's it, my bet is that it will be found.
144 lucaspithan : how many time till the first ship arrive in the area? Is that Norwegian one?
145 jelliesR : Well perhaps it can become compulsory now. How is it that the world can force every airline to spend many more dollars on floatation devices under ev
146 bueb0g : CVR and FDR circuit breakers are above the overhead panel, within easy access of the pilots. They are not in the EE bay and neither is the "breaker f
147 nupogodi : The world doesn't force anything; regulations mandate it in various parts of the world (or you can't enter their airspace) and membership to certain
148 7BOEING7 : Not on the overhead CB panels I'm looking at. Can you specify the position ( letter/number)?
149 Starlionblue : Apart from this particular report being inconsistent with the satellite data, eye witness accounts are notoriously unreliable. People, even groups, e
150 redflyer : Ensuring that all conversations and sounds in the cockpit immediately before, during, and following a flight are captured. It would provide invaluabl
151 Mortyman : The Norwegian ship arrived to the area about 12 hours ago. They have been searching but it has been night / dark and difficult to see because of that
152 nupogodi : I don't think it would be mostly Boeing's doing, as the CVR/FDR are manufactured by third parties like Honeywell. Considering the incredible pace wit
153 Starlionblue : This plane was built 11 years ago, well before flash memory became cheap. Older recorders did not even use flash memory because, as you say, it was i
154 Post contains links and images rcair1 : Not much -but it has to be solid state. Hard drive would never survivie. --- Nothing had changed - nothing. So no need for updated Sanity Check yet.
155 7BOEING7 : As technology changed Honeywell improved the product and Boeing certified it (one flight -- flown more than a few of those). All for the most part ba
156 akberc : Hopefully, in a few hours, we would have confirmed the latest MH-370 SAR is fruitful. Meanwhile --- Yes, but only from a Western person-on-the-street
157 bennett123 : DJM18 Don't really buy that. There is no report of the SIA aircraft crew seeing another B777. By definition, they could not have taken avoiding action
158 nupogodi : Everything you say is true, and I am aware that magnetic tape was the de-facto standard for a long time. All I am saying is that I think it is highly
159 Post contains links Mortyman : Don't know if this piece from the Washington Post has been posted before: A simple computer upgrade that Malaysia Airlines decided not to purchase wou
160 7BOEING7 : ELT batteries have a very short life after being activated, a couple of hours max.
161 nupogodi : It has been posted, Are they talking about Swift64? So it would have used the same INMARSAT-3 anyway? I'm not sure it would be $10/flight, but it's t
162 Starlionblue : Yes it has been posted, but that's beside the point. All the fancy tracking technology in the world is pretty useless if it is turned off in the airc
163 Kaiarahi : Jeez dude - you're making me feel my age. As I recall, the S-3Bs were still around in 2009-10 (last time I was on a carrier) - but maybe I'm wrong. A
164 Post contains links twincessna340a : AMSA has posted Day Four (March 21st) search handouts. http://www.amsa.gov.au/media/incidents/mh370-search.asp
165 prebennorholm : Originally it was 30 minutes because that was what was practical with a tape spool which had to be protected against heat and impact. Later, as flash
166 nupogodi : I gotta ask you military guys, why is it called "station" time? I totally understand "loiter", but why "station"?
167 Post contains links cbrboy : Thanks! This is probably the key map to understand the southern search so far and the search area planned for today.
168 DeltaMD90 : ACARS isn't a SAR device, it's mostly about MX. And it would be silly if people try and mandate ACARS be mandatory when you have transponders which a
169 Post contains links Air NZ : Was looking at FlightRadar24 and saw a Global express heading SW out of Perth. I assume this is the Civil Gulstream they are talking about taking part
170 redflyer : Sorry, should have said ULB, not ELT.
171 TheRedBAron : Bu the time I come back from vacation this theme will be in its 55 parts.... and most probably the mystery will linger on. Sadly I think the possibili
172 Post contains images nupogodi : I think they should also delete the yokes and side-sticks and throttles from airliners because they can be used to crash an aircraft.
173 Post contains links antskip : "conditions are improving, Australia's Bureau of Meteorology told AFP. "Showers associated with the passage of a cold front on Thursday, which saw low
174 studedave : I feel ya. I retired in September, 2008~ lots of changes since then. Per Wikipedia~ "The final carrier based S-3B Squadron, VS-22 was decommissioned
175 Post contains links 777Jet : Here is an interesting article that links to a few videos: "Pilot 'made call in cockpit minutes before take off'" http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/201
176 N328KF : I think one key question that needs to be asked is, why did Malaysian authorities not sound the alarm after the aircraft went off the scopes for an ex
177 777Jet : I just posted a link above that is suggesting the Captain made a phone call just before takeoff. If the Captain did make a call, which has not yet be
178 rcair1 : Nope - for instance the Honeywell Rescu 406 ANF has a specified operating battery life of 50 hours. Not 30 days, but not a couple hours. I think the
179 Lindenwold : took them 13 days to go through his call logs?
180 Kaiarahi : Just means "in the assigned position".
181 akberc : In hindsight yes, but it would have been probably taken as alarmist and stupid at 2:30 a.m. on March 8th to alert half a hemisphere that they've lost
182 mandala499 : It's definitely Amsterdam, as others have said. Amsterdam is also a destination for MH's 777s. How many of these satcoms have truly global coverage?
183 N328KF : I'm guessing nobody would have pitched a fit over raising the alarm if there had actually been a crash, no matter where.
184 DeltaMD90 : Just another baseless assumption that makes the theory even less likely. Let's investigate the phone call first and see where it leads us, shall we?
185 B777fan : Not a military guy but station is used as an assigned location, such as 'I was stationed at Nellis AFB'. The phrase 'on station' is often used instea
186 nupogodi : Yeah I understand the meaning just not the source. Since technically when a recon aircraft is "on station", it's quite literally not where it's stati
187 David L : RFields in particular has, more than once, given quite a detailed account of the actions of the Malaysians and Vietnamese after the flight lost conta
188 777Jet : Should we be surprised? I wouldn't be... Nothing surprises me given the way this event has unfolded. But if he did indeed make the call and it was on
189 nupogodi : Dunno. But getting carriers to agree to AHM over SATCOM on international flights is an idea with far less friction than the ridiculous "full downlink
190 Post contains links and images KIAS : Perhaps we should give the professionals more credit, they wouldn't be giving press conferences and deploying expensive SAR units if they didn't thin
191 Post contains images 777Jet : Just like the theory that there was a fire in the 777 and it flew for another 6.6 hours...
192 LTC8K6 : You unfairly truncated my post, imo.
193 B777fan : I've always associated it with the very old nautical phrase station-keeping. Say you are patrolling the entrance to a harbor, while doing that task y
194 nupogodi : Makes sense to me. Lots of overlap with nautical jargon and aviation jargon. Thanks.
195 DiscoverCSG : Because it was *supposed* to fly off the scopes into Vietnamese airspace.
196 KIAS : Apologies, that wasn't my intent. I may have taken your post the wrong way. In a way, I was reacting for a more general negativism about the search.
197 DeltaMD90 : Are you saying the only alternate to your 'calling the other pilot to shadow him and land in Pakistan and Pakistan hasn't made this landing public ye
198 wjcandee : Ugh...all the conspiracy theories. Maybe correct, maybe not. Here's the retort to Megan Kelly tonight: (1) There's no evidence that the transponder an
199 Post contains images 777Jet : It has not taken me long to realize that plenty of that happens in here As mentioned in their press conferences, it could be anything... If the swell
200 LTC8K6 : No, FR24 shows 25 then 28, then 40 as the last three headings. 40 is the last FR24 heading, which matches the normal flight path.
201 GZed : Hi all, I need to ask a question about the images we see on the news showing the two possible location areas in an arc around the satellite that picke
202 Post contains images 777Jet : No. I am just saying, to quote your words, that if a slight twist to an already existing theory is underpinned by a "baseless assumption" based on po
203 my787 : I too think the hypoxia theory is quite plausible. Thing is, once flame out occurs... if plane hits land = ELT signal. If plane hits water = DFR ping
204 hivue : No. See rcair1's sanity check for details on the SATCOM pings.
205 hh65man : @ KIAS, that was a good video to post. I've been through the High Altitude Chamber before and experienced the same thing. It doesn't take long for it
206 hivue : Not hearing the ELT signal or the FDR ping reconciles very nicely with them being at the bottom of the Indian Ocean.[Edited 2014-03-20 19:46:36]
207 LTC8K6 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IqWal_EmBg Another good hypoxia illustration...
208 Post contains links davidzill : http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=367_1395328940 Interesting and feasible theory, combine that with a fire that was eventually extinguished, and pilots d
209 Starlionblue : A more likely scenario is that he was been calling a family member or a friend and telling them he'd be back in a couple of days. Pilots, like any ki
210 KIAS : Was the garbled transmission picked up by another flight after MH370 signed off ruled out as misinformation?
211 cat3appr50 : I've commented from the beginning that IMO MH370, after the transponder, comms., etc. were reported to have been purposely shut off prior to IGARI WP,
212 tomlee : Probably isn't feasible (due to the impact/temp/etc...) requirements but LTO-6 (Linear Tape-Open) data tapes can store 2.5 Terabytes of data (You cou
213 Post contains links tomlee : Except it wasn't just the media the local government confirmed military, civil primary radar did not see the plane. http://www.businessinsider.my/mal
214 B777fan : Not bad but not quite right. Yes the last ping could have taken place anywhere on those two arcs. rcair1 has been publishing the collected info and i
215 777Jet : Of course it is more likely. But that does not rule out calling anybody else... And if it was the regular call to family, why don't we know that yet
216 7BOEING7 : First, I don't think we have any fighters at Diego Garcia. Second, if MH370 went due south from the last radar contact it would be right where it is
217 Starlionblue : The media would love the Maldivians to be right. Makes a great story. Eye witnesses being notoriously unreliable isn't something the media has made u
218 RyanairGuru : I'm just listening to ABC News Radio (sorry no link, but I'm sure there is one out there) and apparently Tony Abbott, the Australian Prime Minister, p
219 rj777 : I'm sorry. but this general on Fox News that's saying that he's got sources saying that the plane landed in Pakistan is coming across to me as a littl
220 bcworld : How do you know it has taken them 2 weeks? For all you know, and it is indeed likely, the crew's phone records have been studied long before now. Thi
221 LTC8K6 : Could be devastated that they know the plane crashed. Could be devastated to hear that they still can't find the plane.
222 DeltaMD90 : Who cares what the media says or thinks? The investigators aren't looking where the media is telling them to. If there was any weight to the Maldives
223 hivue : But likely would be "devastated" over a high quality image that is related and that we haven't seen. (Or the Australian PM's assurance that such an i
224 holzmann : March 23-25: many world leaders will attend the Nuclear Industry Summit. Coincidence the MH370 pilot was interested in AMS?
225 jelliesR : What if one pilot was out of the cockpit chatting to some passengers, and the fire/smoke was originating near the oxygen equipment itself, like the E
226 Lindenwold : Is he still sticking to that scenario? Talk about stubborn.
227 11Bravo : If you accept that conclusion, and I agree it's maybe possible for the aircraft to get all the way to the Maldives, then you are faced with a choice.
228 Post contains images cbrboy : A good assessment. The Australian PM would not have gone public in the way he did unless the military & intelligence community were confident tha
229 hivue : If anyone out there knows of a psychology student looking for a subject for a PhD thesis please direct them to this thread. Quoting jelliesR (Reply 24
230 SeeTheWorld : Exactly right ... it's the Prime Minister of Australia for goodness sake ...
231 777Jet : Why wait so long for such info to come out? If somebody knew that info earlier I would have thought it would have been released by the media or whoev
232 trex8 : Not any that are supposed to be planning on intercepting anything while there anyway. Maybe when the next war happens there will be some on alert!
233 jelliesR : Do you know how an electrical fire behaves at high altitude if it breaches the hull? perhaps explosive decompression or the jet stream blows it out o
234 Post contains images 777Jet : And that it was a KLM flight to AMS from SIN that could have been in the area in which MH370 might have been that led to the shadow theory... Maybe i
235 bcworld : Perhaps this is part of your problem, if you believe it is the role of the media to release this information.
236 777Jet : I don't have a problem, perhaps you do? I don't believe it is the role of the media to release information - I believe it is the role of relevant aut
237 blueshamu330s : Is there anywhere online which gives reliable data on the whereabouts of the US naval fleet? I have been using Stratfor to follow activity in the Indi
238 PacNWjet : I'm having a hard time understanding what is being implied by some of the recent posts. If I understand correctly, what some people are saying is that
239 valleyflyer : 24 meters is longer than most ICBMs. Australia (probably with the help of US satellite imagery) not being able tell the difference between floating j
240 SeeTheWorld : I think you are confused .... It seems to me that the U.S. has combined their expertise with Australia and is allowing them to disseminate the inform
241 fiscal : That is not the case, the PM was at pains to stress that it was a lead, but that it may not be related to MH370 until it is found. The size was the d
242 MSY-MSP : No matter what any of us think in terms of what actually happened I think we can all agree that the following things are strange when taken on their o
243 RyanairGuru : I don't want to sound all rah-rah Australia, but if this IS the wreckage then IMHO you can thank whichever deity you believe in that it was found with
244 Post contains links SA7700 : Due to length this thread will be locked for further contributions. All posts added after the thread lock will be removed for housekeeping purposes on
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