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Silver Airways Flight Schedules & Crew Problems  
User currently offlineHighflier92660 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 676 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9151 times:

This could be a trip report except I'm looking for input from Silver Airways employees and people familiar with the company. It appears that any semblance of 3M being an actual scheduled regional airline is shaky at best.

Ironically the first inkling I had that we may have a problem with Silver Airways came listening to a morning radio show on Tampa's 970am WFLA. Local broadcasting legend Jack Harris told listeners on AM Tampa Bay of his plight attempting to fly from TPA to TLH on a Friday afternoon to meet-up with his wife and teenager attending Florida State University. When given the run-around then told the 3:26 pm flight was tentatively re-scheduled to 6 pm, the septuagenarian celebrity decided it was faster to do the 283 mile cannonball run in a rental car. If Jack Harris, who does the service announcements over the P.A. at Tampa International can't get a straight answer about the actual reason for his flight delay, what chance do the rest of us have?

Cut to this past Friday morning and our Silver Airways flight 4007 from TPA to EYW. The 8 am flight was delayed until 10:20 with no explanation or creative excuse given by any agent. But sitting for hours downstairs at gate 1 in Terminal A, we soon found out that every flight that morning was delayed; the one to Tallahassee and to Fort Lauderdale as well as our flight to Key West. And when there was an eventual arrival of a Saab 340B Plus there was no effort to turn around the a/c in a minimum amount of time. Instead, in both instances crews race from the aircraft, across the ramp into the terminal and up the escalator for a protracted time. Racing to dispatch? No.

"Ladies and gentlemen, we will start boarding the aircraft as soon as the flight attendant returns."

Ten minutes later a flight attendant, in platform stilettos no less, was seen racing at about a 4.8 second 40-yard dash to the plane with a large wrapped breakfast treat in her hand. Forty-five minutes later the same process was repeated by the crew of the Ft. Lauderdale flight; Captain and F/O making a mad dash up the escalator leaving the poor hapless desk agents to fend for themselves against the thundering herd, only to re-emerge some minutes later with grilled goodness from the Green Iguana restuarant in Terminal A. Where is all this in the procedures training manual of Silver Airways?

In the final insult to the very definition of the term scheduled airline, as we were in the departure area in Key West waiting for our on-time Delta Boeing 737-700 flight to ATL, an announcement was heard that the Silver Airways flight to Ft. Lauderdale would be delayed significantly due to weather. On this benign and beautiful day in south Florida there were apparently raging level 5 thunderstorms in all quadrants and wind shear alerts on all FLL runways. However shortly afterward came the inevitable flight cancellation and the usual angry response from the assembled pax.

Is this any way to run and airline? What is Silver Airways doing to remedy this? It is clearly a pilot shortage and crewing problem.

66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 977 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9075 times:

Quoting Highflier92660 (Thread starter):
Ten minutes later a flight attendant, in platform stilettos no less, was seen racing at about a 4.8 second 40-yard dash to the plane with a large wrapped breakfast treat in her hand. Forty-five minutes later the same process was repeated by the crew of the Ft. Lauderdale flight; Captain and F/O making a mad dash up the escalator leaving the poor hapless desk agents to fend for themselves against the thundering herd, only to re-emerge some minutes later with grilled goodness from the Green Iguana restuarant in Terminal A.

Crew members should not be allowed to eat. It's sad that they run to get food. I mean, I would rather them pass out due to low blood sugar from not eating than to give them 10 minutes to get breakfast or lunch.  Wow!   



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlineflight152 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 3397 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (6 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8834 times:

Quoting Highflier92660 (Thread starter):
Where is all this in the procedures training manual of Silver Airways?

People like YOU are the problem; apparently expecting these crewmembers to work without taking time to get food in-between flights.

I've come across a similar situation where a passenger confronted me heading to the gate to a delayed flight with food in my hand. Quite frankly, they should be glad I didn't go to a full service sit down restaurant and delay the flight even more. I wouldn't want the crew of my flight working hungry, and neither should you.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21637 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (6 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8788 times:

Quoting Highflier92660 (Thread starter):
Ten minutes later a flight attendant, in platform stilettos no less, was seen racing at about a 4.8 second 40-yard dash to the plane with a large wrapped breakfast treat in her hand. Forty-five minutes later the same process was repeated by the crew of the Ft. Lauderdale flight; Captain and F/O making a mad dash up the escalator leaving the poor hapless desk agents to fend for themselves against the thundering herd, only to re-emerge some minutes later with grilled goodness from the Green Iguana restuarant in Terminal A. Where is all this in the procedures training manual of Silver Airways?

It's not there, but it is in the procedures training manual for life, which supersedes any airline's training manual: at some point in the day, you have to eat in order to continue to do your job properly. If your flights are consistently delayed and the time available to do so goes away, you're going to have to pick a spot to fit it back in again, and you're going to effect some passengers, which sucks, and which nobody likes to do. But sometimes it has to be done.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineairportugal310 From Tokelau, joined Apr 2004, 3641 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8724 times:

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 1):
Quoting flight152 (Reply 2):
Quoting Mir (Reply 3):

Interesting that none of you address the 3hr delay, the 2 hr delay...rather long delays for fairly simple intra-Florida flights.

But hey that's not a issue!



I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
User currently offlineDualQual From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 769 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 8653 times:

So I am to understand that you would support Silver Airways crews in a fight with management to have proper crew meals boarded and available to them on the aircraft? Of course this would probably raise the cost of the ticket a couple of bucks. But it would ensure that the crew wouldn't have to go racing in to purchase some food to scarf down and get you on your way to your destination faster.

User currently offlineflight152 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 3397 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (6 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 8587 times:

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 4):
Interesting that none of you address the 3hr delay, the 2 hr delay...rather long delays for fairly simple intra-Florida flights.

But hey that's not a issue!

None of us said that wasn't an issue, but the comment the original poster made about the food WAS an issue.

Quite frankly, I wouldn't book a 3M flight not expecting some sort of delay.


User currently offlineAcey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (6 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 8545 times:

You could insert just about any regional airline in the title and the story will be almost the same. Things are starting to get really bad everywhere, but the issues are manifesting themselves at the lowest end (by pay) first with Lakes and Silver. The bad part is that if people think things are tight now, just wait until summer. And I can also personally attest to the lack of time for food, as well.

I didn't have it all that bad at Eagle, I never worked more than five legs in a day so I can only imagining it being worse at Silver, etc. On days where you're flying 7 hours and 55 minutes with 30 minute turns there isn't much time to get something so you have to make time. Sometimes that interferes with the schedule but so what? Don't blame the crew, it's not their fault.

In fact at Eagle, we were often told that we needed to go get food for the flight attendants because they weren't even allowed to step off the plane so as to "maintain schedule integrity". It was the pilot's responsibility to go get food for them. Which of course we didn't have a problem with, of course, our problem was with the company telling them they couldn't get off the plane; plus we get pretty busy too. So we would always just tell them to go and if the company gives them a hard time, we'll back them up.

And please don't read this the wrong way, I'm not trying to incite an argument, I just simply want people to know what goes on so they understand. But long story short, this ball is just starting to roll and the next few months are going to be very interesting to watch.


User currently offlinesilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2104 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (6 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8310 times:

Like every regional airline right now, I suspect that they are having trouble recruiting and retaining pilots. New crew rest requirements will compound the staffing problem, as you can no longer expect the pilot to be back at the airport 8 hours after the last flight of the night landed.

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 4):
Interesting that none of you address the 3hr delay, the 2 hr delay...rather long delays for fairly simple intra-Florida flights.

But hey that's not a issue!

there's usually a thunderstorm somewhere in Florida on any given day. Weather delays shouldn't be unexpected. I haven't looked at their utilization, it's very possible that they are scheduling too much flying for the number of aircraft or pilots that they have.


User currently offlineFlyHossD From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 890 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8127 times:

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 7):
You could insert just about any regional airline in the title and the story will be almost the same. Things are starting to get really bad everywhere, but the issues are manifesting themselves at the lowest end (by pay) first with Lakes and Silver. The bad part is that if people think things are tight now, just wait until summer...

...And please don't read this the wrong way, I'm not trying to incite an argument, I just simply want people to know what goes on so they understand. But long story short, this ball is just starting to roll and the next few months are going to be very interesting to watch.

Excellent post, Acey559. From what I'm hearing, your prediction about this coming summer will likely be accurate.

Many years ago, I was a management pilot at a large regional airline. One day, one of the Ops Managers called the office and was quite upset that one of the crews had asked for crew meals - something we didn't provide. Given that the operation had been running late all day, I thought it was an excellent idea by this crew, so I asked the Ops Manager what they wanted. She was aghast that I'd go get meals for them - so I explained that it was much smarter for me to get the meals and hand them to the crew than to force them to fend for themselves.

Damn those prima donna pilots - let them eat, er... ...nothing!  



My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
User currently offline175erj From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8068 times:

or... the crews could pack a food bag, like many crews of larger airlines, including those at Southwest do. Or, the captain could run and get food while the FO pre-flights and the FA is available for boarding. It's not about not letting the crews eat, just there is a smarter way to go about it.

And yes, Silver is having major crew issues though management won't admit it.


User currently offlineAcey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (6 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7874 times:

Quoting 175erj (Reply 10):

That's often how we went about it. We were just a little peeved at the principle of the email. Flight attendants stand around the airplane all day and while we often had chances to at least take a step off for a "breather", the flight attendants often didn't. Just a quick walk up the jetbridge and back was helpful to help clear their heads a bit. But I get what you're saying. And packing for five days is easier said than done!   I tried a few times but never really figured out a system. Plenty do, I know, but I was never dedicated enough, I guess.


User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3105 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (6 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7799 times:

Quoting silentbob (Reply 8):
Like every regional airline right now, I suspect that they are having trouble recruiting and retaining pilots.

Isn't this the heart of the problem pure and simple?


User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3031 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (6 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7648 times:

Quoting Highflier92660 (Thread starter):

Not sure what you expect them to do. If there's a weather issue at FLL there's a weather issue.

Quoting flight152 (Reply 2):

Quite frankly YOU are the problem. The fact that you would willingly and deliberately delay a flight is shocking. Your customers who pay your salary should be grateful to you that you didn't delay their flight eve further because you can't plan ahead enough to eat? Maybe you need to reassess your career choices, because somehow tens of thousands of flights per day are operated on time at all levels of the industry, and yet you can't get your act together to keep yourself nourished and do your job...

[Edited 2014-03-23 18:58:17]

User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21637 posts, RR: 55
Reply 14, posted (6 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7522 times:

Quoting 175erj (Reply 10):
or... the crews could pack a food bag, like many crews of larger airlines, including those at Southwest do.

And if they spent the previous night away from base, they would get the food for that bag from...?

Quoting catiii (Reply 13):
The fact that you would willingly and deliberately delay a flight is shocking. Your customers who pay your salary should be grateful to you that you didn't delay their flight eve further because you can't plan ahead enough to eat?

You assume that people don't plan ahead, but there are a number of things that could have ruined any plans they made. If a long weather delay happens, that hour that you figured you had to grab something can become a half-hour turn. But you've still got to eat something, otherwise you're not going to make it through the day. That's just reality. And if the airline is getting too many flights leaving late because the crews need to run and grab something to eat, that's a sign that they are running too tight of a schedule for their crews to realistically fly.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3031 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (6 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7517 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 14):

Fine, stuff happens. And I don't disagree at all with the necessity of eating. But the attitude of "screw you,you should be grateful I didn't willfully try and delay you even more" is ridiculous.


User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5055 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7412 times:

I agree with others about the importance of eating. It would be an absolute disaster if we expected crews to go hungry in the name of a schedule. Sorry, but health and sanity are two very important aspects of a crew. This practice is done at almost every airline. F9 crews would run to the nearest food place to grab a quick meal to go. I would happily take a delay any day to ensure my crews had a bite to eat. I can't perform at my best on an empty stomach, and good luck getting a smile out of me if I have a hunger headache.


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineAirontario From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 551 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7383 times:

Quoting catiii (Reply 15):
Fine, stuff happens. And I don't disagree at all with the necessity of eating. But the attitude of "screw you,you should be grateful I didn't willfully try and delay you even more" is ridiculous.

I don't think anyone said or feel this way. Earlier in the thread someone stated that sometimes you have to get off the plane to get food, even if it means causing a delay for the passengers. It's not something anyone wants to do, but you know sometimes it's a necessity. It's the aviation industry. No matter how hard to plan ahead and try to making things run perfectly, sometimes they just don't run the way you want them to. It's not necessarily anybody's fault, it's just the way things happen.


User currently offlineFlyHossD From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 890 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7302 times:

Quoting Airontario (Reply 17):
I don't think anyone said or feel this way. Earlier in the thread someone stated that sometimes you have to get off the plane to get food, even if it means causing a delay for the passengers. It's not something anyone wants to do, but you know sometimes it's a necessity. It's the aviation industry. No matter how hard to plan ahead and try to making things run perfectly, sometimes they just don't run the way you want them to. It's not necessarily anybody's fault, it's just the way things happen.

Right, thank you. No one in this thread suggested sitting down for a meal. Quite the contrary, in fact:

Quoting Highflier92660 (Thread starter):
Ten minutes later a flight attendant, in platform stilettos no less, was seen racing at about a 4.8 second 40-yard dash to the plane with a large wrapped breakfast treat in her hand. Forty-five minutes later the same process was repeated by the crew of the Ft. Lauderdale flight; Captain and F/O making a mad dash

Is safety more important than schedule? It is and it should be.

Quoting catiii (Reply 13):
Quite frankly YOU are the problem. The fact that you would willingly and deliberately delay a flight is shocking. Your customers who pay your salary should be grateful to you that you didn't delay their flight eve further because you can't plan ahead enough to eat?

  



My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
User currently offlinedashman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6909 times:

Unfortunately this is happening even at the regionals ones you might not think.
Bottom line, intstead of making snide remarks and innuendos contact managment of the particular airline. They created the problem. Don't expect crews crews to give 120 percent day in and day out in order to compensate for managements inability to do "their job"


User currently onlinethegoldenargosy From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 380 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 6574 times:

Quoting catiii (Reply 13):
Quite frankly YOU are the problem. The fact that you would willingly and deliberately delay a flight is shocking. Your customers who pay your salary should be grateful to you that you didn't delay their flight eve further because you can't plan ahead enough to eat? Maybe you need to reassess your career choices, because somehow tens of thousands of flights per day are operated on time at all levels of the industry, and yet you can't get your act together to keep yourself nourished and do your job...

Seriously? You're the kind of passenger we hate. It's not as simple as it may seem to you. Often times on the layover the only food options are a vending machine. At regionals crews work 4-7 flights a day often with very little ground time. Don't blame the crew, blame scheduling. I'd like to see you at work with no break what so ever, not even 10mins to go grab something.


User currently offlineN353SK From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 822 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 6371 times:

Quoting catiii (Reply 13):
Quite frankly YOU are the problem. The fact that you would willingly and deliberately delay a flight is shocking. Your customers who pay your salary should be grateful to you that you didn't delay their flight eve further because you can't plan ahead enough to eat? Maybe you need to reassess your career choices, because somehow tens of thousands of flights per day are operated on time at all levels of the industry, and yet you can't get your act together to keep yourself nourished and do your job...

About a year ago I had planned to grab lunch on our 90 minute sit at the hub. Right after pushback to fly to the hub ATC informed us that we now had a two hour ATC delay because an aircraft had an incident and one of the runways was closed. Dispatch told us not to return to the gate so we could be ready to go in case our wheels up time changed. It didn't, and when we arrived at the hub we had negative 30 minutes to deplane our passengers, walk to a new aircraft, board the passengers, and depart. We were hungry, so we stopped and picked up a couple of sandwiches that we scarfed down in the cockpit while preparing the aircraft. How exactly should we have planned ahead for that?


User currently offlinefreeze3192 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6248 times:

Quoting catiii (Reply 13):
Quite frankly YOU are the problem. The fact that you would willingly and deliberately delay a flight is shocking. Your customers who pay your salary should be grateful to you that you didn't delay their flight eve further because you can't plan ahead enough to eat? Maybe you need to reassess your career choices, because somehow tens of thousands of flights per day are operated on time at all levels of the industry, and yet you can't get your act together to keep yourself nourished and do your job...

Quite frankly YOU have no IDEA what YOU are talking about. Come work a day in my shoes, 6 legs a day, delayed all day, day 4 of 4, pushing the duty limits of Part 117 and you find yourself a time to eat.

And yes, you ARE lucky that I didn't decide to sit down and have a meal the dignified way, at a table and chair. Not sitting in a cockpit with a yoke in my lap trying to scarf down my food before it gets cold in between doing flows, checklists and paperwork.

YOU are the traveler that crews hate. You see your self as an expert of everything, though in reality you are an expert at nothing and you expect your crew to move heaven and earth to get you to your destination 25 minutes early so you can make your 30 minute connection that you stupidy booked through EWR, on a ticket that cost you $125 to fly 800 miles. Then you whine and throw a temper tantrum when you don't get your way like the self-entitled weenie that we all see you as.

                 



"A passenger bets his life that his pilot is a worthy heir to an ancient tradition of excellence and professionalism."
User currently offlinefutureualpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2602 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (6 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6101 times:

I've delayed flights in the past, and will in the future if my crew and I need a meal break. People can be mad, threaten my job, call me names, tell me how important they are or their schedule might be but if we can't fulfill the most fundamental of needs on Maslow's hierarchy, then the rest doesn't matter.

That being said, the folks on here so incensed that we might try and feed ourselves without consideration to the customer, or schedule are poorly misguided in their thinking. Further it is absurd to assume we don't plan ahead to incorporate or food into the turns that are adequately long enough to get food or that we don't try to bring food from home. But, food runs out. We don't always have time or the means to buy more on an overnight. Schedules change, and our breaks evaporate quickly when we encounter a maintenance or weather or some other delay beyond our control leaving us with little or no time to nourish ourselves. So, at some point we just have to put the brakes on the operation to give ourselves a break in order to make sure we can function at the highest level for each flight.

I'm sorry your flight was delayed while the crew went and found some nibbles. But your safety is our top priority and that applies to all functions of the operation, including crew member well being. Next time I hope you find some patience and understanding.



Life is better when you surf.
User currently offlinedeltadudejg From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 12 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5851 times:

I have heard from some PSA pilots that Silver isn't doing so hot these days, possibly going to shut down soon here. I always treat aviation news the same way, don't believe anything til you actually see something. Either way I always love seeing the 3M aircraft in Tampa, love Saabs they are great turboprops.


J.Gottlieb- Evergreen EAGLE @ KTPA
User currently offlinen6238p From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 508 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (6 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5727 times:

Remember boys and girls, we're just the bus drivers of the sky and it's all our fault someone missed their 20 minute connection they booked via Orbitz for $163.

I bet highflyer and catiii have some great theories on MH370 as well.



To actively root against anybody is just low, and I hope karma comes back at you with a vengeance
User currently offlinecaptainstefan From United States of America, joined May 2007, 429 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (6 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5510 times:

As someone who definitely turns into a diva when he's hungry (Snicker's commercials), I have no problem at all waiting for a crew to go get food. I think the overlying issue here is not crew members delaying flights to get some chow, but rather that 3M is not a well run airline - regional or not. Taking 3 hours delays regularly on flights blocked for 45 minutes is not a good sign, and is definitely not just because the crew was hungry. (I don't have any concrete data for this - it's just an estimation based on what I see every day at work)


Long Live the Tulip!
User currently offlineHighflier92660 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 676 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (6 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5548 times:

A note to all above posters who work at a regional airline: I'll bet you think my hero is spokesman Roger Cohen, the Baron Scarpia of the Regional Airline Association.

For all those not familiar, see Roger Cohen hiss and scowl his way though an interview with CNNs Miles o' Brien. In it he maintains that regional airline pilots are well paid (until o'Brien corrects him on the facts) and says there are no need for crash pads because, heck, you can get a Ritz Carlton suite in New York for seventy bucks a night.

From hence forth, all company aircraft may be dispatched with a non-functioning aileron or elevator control surface. These will be written up under deferred maintenance and the expanded minimum equipment list will be in place by tomorrow. In addition, food and restroom breaks will be eliminated if the a/c blocks-in over fifteen minutes late.

Go forth, fly and act happy. That's a company order!


User currently offlineusa330300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (6 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5503 times:

Quoting Highflier92660 (Thread starter):
Ten minutes later a flight attendant, in platform stilettos no less

This must be her block. Have seen her several times. She is quite the sight.


User currently offlineinfiniti329 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (6 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5334 times:

It is blasphemous that people on here think pilots are not humans beings. Pilots dont run on jetA like their planes do. They run on food and water just like their pax. So what if your flight gets a little delayed so the crew can get some food. Life goes on. I rather my flight crew to be fed and alert v. being hungry and unalert

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 7):
So we would always just tell them to go and if the company gives them a hard time, we'll back them up.

Thats is very respectable of you, I would do the same thing in a heartbeat.


User currently offlineanjin From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 7 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (6 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4576 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

In Europe a break of 20 mins is required (duty less than 6hrs)
Food is fuel, no fuel and pilots make mistakes
Rather a delay than a mistake.
Sounds as though not enough crews is the bigger issue


User currently offlineB727FA From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 764 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (6 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4443 times:

This is almost comical if it weren't so serious. Pack ahead? Plan to eat? I guess crews should only ever eat non-perishable pre-packaged things; because THAT'S so yummy after 3 days. We fuel planes, why don't we fuel our crews. I noted the OP's snide comments about the "stiletto platforms no less...with her breakfast 'treat' " like 1--the shoes are relevant and 2--a "treat" implies something silly or foolish/not necessary. How demeaning. I'm thankful my airline provides crew meals for some flights. There are circumstances and parameters that must be met--but it's a start!


My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
User currently offlinefreakydeaky From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 132 posts, RR: 3
Reply 32, posted (6 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4424 times:

Pilots, please pack your lunch and dinner and store it in your warm cockpit where it will stew in bacteria for a few hours. Yummy. Just take a sick sack up with you and everything will be fine. Mmmmm....mayonnaise surprise.


"Finish each day and be done with it. You have done what you could."
User currently offlineWeb500sjc From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 740 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (6 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4315 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting freakydeaky (Reply 32):
Pilots, please pack your lunch and dinner and store it in your warm cockpit where it will stew in bacteria for a few hours. Yummy. Just take a sick sack up with you and everything will be fine. Mmmmm....mayonnaise surprise.

Silly me, I thought this thread was about Silver airways not being able to preform their schedules.

It is not bad crew, you don't get lunch - more silver airways has created a pattern of not completing scheduled flights, and the flights they do complete have crew sprinting to get food. So what you have is an obnoxiously tight schedule, that doesn't allow the airline to complete the contracted flights, and doesn't allow the opportunity for the crew to eat.



Boiler Up!
User currently offlinepeachair From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 367 posts, RR: 3
Reply 34, posted (6 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4038 times:

Quoting flight152 (Reply 2):
People like YOU are the problem; apparently expecting these crewmembers to work without taking time to get food in-between flights.

I've come across a similar situation where a passenger confronted me heading to the gate to a delayed flight with food in my hand. Quite frankly, they should be glad I didn't go to a full service sit down restaurant and delay the flight even more. I wouldn't want the crew of my flight working hungry, and neither should you.
Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 20):
Seriously? You're the kind of passenger we hate. It's not as simple as it may seem to you. Often times on the layover the only food options are a vending machine. At regionals crews work 4-7 flights a day often with very little ground time. Don't blame the crew, blame scheduling. I'd like to see you at work with no break what so ever, not even 10mins to go grab something.
Quoting futureualpilot (Reply 23):
I've delayed flights in the past, and will in the future if my crew and I need a meal break. People can be mad, threaten my job, call me names, tell me how important they are or their schedule might be but if we can't fulfill the most fundamental of needs on Maslow's hierarchy, then the rest doesn't matter

We can air our dirty laundry here all we want, and I understand the frustration. I started my carrier with a company very similar to yours, but at the end of the day, the customer really doesnt care. They pay for a ticket for your company to get them from A to B on-time with their bags. Thats it. For the most part they dont care about anything else. I would say that the company is responsible for ensuring you - the pilot - and crew, have the tools you need to do your job. That includes a mechanically safe airplane, and a schedule that enables you to stay on the schedule.


User currently offlineatct From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2295 posts, RR: 38
Reply 35, posted (6 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3953 times:

I used to work for a really crappy outfit called Regions Air. 9 legs a day with crappy pay. I would loved for 6 legs. I missed many meals and had many late flights. I never delayed a flight because I was "hungry." I ate when I could. I agree with the original poster that if the flight was delayed and both pilots went to go get food, that is uncalled for. Grab some nuts and a water and push on like the rest of us do. Suck it up and stop whining.


"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21637 posts, RR: 55
Reply 36, posted (6 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3888 times:

Quoting atct (Reply 35):
I agree with the original poster that if the flight was delayed and both pilots went to go get food, that is uncalled for. Grab some nuts and a water and push on like the rest of us do. Suck it up and stop whining.

It's just not a good idea from a safety standpoint - that sort of thing is going to leave you malnourished if you do it long enough, which has an adverse effect on your mental performance and fatigue.

It may have been done in the past, but so were a lot of other things that the industry has evolved out of.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinenewhaven From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 37, posted (6 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3834 times:

Re post below .... edited.

[Edited 2014-03-24 16:09:22]

User currently offlineAcey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 38, posted (6 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3847 times:

Anyone remember the IMSAFE checklist? Just saying.  

User currently offlinenewhaven From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 39, posted (6 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3866 times:

Quoting flight152 (Reply 2):
People like YOU are the problem; apparently expecting these crewmembers to work without taking time to get food in-between flights.I've come across a similar situation where a passenger confronted me heading to the gate to a delayed flight with food in my hand. Quite frankly, they should be glad I didn't go to a full service sit down restaurant and delay the flight even more. I wouldn't want the crew of my flight working hungry, and neither should you.

BULL ! Your job is to transport passengers. And if your flight is running late already, then too bad. That's why so many flight crews pack snacks to keep themselves going.

You DO NOT have any business delaying a flight even further, inconveniencing the people who are paying your salary with such a cocky, dismissive comment.

And you certainly would not have the authority or backing of your airline going to some sit-down restaurant to intentionally lollygag, lounge and take your time eating ... while you delay things further. You'd deserve to be fired over such a self centered thing as this.

Pack a lunch ... like most other working people do.

Oh, and .. Flight1152 ... self absorbed, self important people like YOU are the problem in this industry.


User currently offlineridgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (6 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3800 times:

Quoting freeze3192 (Reply 22):
YOU are the traveler that crews hate. You see your self as an expert of everything, though in reality you are an expert at nothing and you expect your crew to move heaven and earth to get you to your destination 25 minutes early so you can make your 30 minute connection that you stupidy booked through EWR, on a ticket that cost you $125 to fly 800 miles. Then you whine and throw a temper tantrum when you don't get your way like the self-entitled weenie that we all see you as.


Thanks for saying that, you are spot on. Those who think spending money has power over others makes me sick!


User currently offlinecoolian2 From New Zealand, joined Oct 2006, 110 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (6 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3793 times:

Just wow guys. In my job I will move heaven and earth to serve a customer. I've gone home hours late more than once, but ultimately eventually something has to give.

Do you honestly think these flight crews delay flights for food just because they can? You've got to be kidding. The actual absurdity of what you're suggesting is mind-boggling. I almost want to suggest this whole thread for deletion on the grounds of lack of connection to reality.


User currently offlineC767P From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 886 posts, RR: 2
Reply 42, posted (6 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3781 times:

Quoting newhaven (Reply 39):
Pack a lunch ... like most other working people do.

How should this be done for day four when hotels have no refrigerators? Cup Noodles? That’s healthy!

I think most crews are responsible about grabbing food when its required. Such as sending one person to get food for the entire crew so things are not delayed any further.


User currently offlinenewhaven From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 43, posted (6 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3759 times:

Quoting coolian2 (Reply 41):
Do you honestly think these flight crews delay flights for food just because they can? You've got to be kidding

Go back and read Reply 2 from Flight1152.

Quoting freeze3192 (Reply 22):
YOU are the traveler that crews hate. You see your self as an expert of everything, though in reality you are an expert at nothing and you expect your crew to move heaven and earth to get you to your destination 25 minutes early so you can make your 30 minute connection that you stupidy booked through EWR, on a ticket that cost you $125 to fly 800 miles. Then you whine and throw a temper tantrum when you don't get your way like the self-entitled weenie that we all see you as.


And your level of professionalism and dignity boggles my mind. Calling your passengers self entitled weenies because they expect you to transport them on time to their destination.

And i'd LOVE to hear you explain a long sit down dinner delay to your Chief Pilot, big shot. Hey ... maybe you should fly freight! At least you wont have to worry about the customers giving you dirty looks.

What a sad excuse for a pilot ... and what a crap attitude .... Sad.


User currently offlinecoolian2 From New Zealand, joined Oct 2006, 110 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (6 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3709 times:

Quoting newhaven (Reply 43):
Go back and read Reply 2 from Flight1152.

How does that post do anything other than prove my point?


User currently offlineatct From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2295 posts, RR: 38
Reply 45, posted (6 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3694 times:

Quoting newhaven (Reply 39):
That's why so many flight crews pack snacks to keep themselves going.

Thats what we did.

Quoting C767P (Reply 42):
How should this be done for day four when hotels have no refrigerators? Cup Noodles? That’s healthy!

I did it for years. Its known as non-perishable food. Check it out next time you visit the grocery store, its a miraculous thing we came up with centuries ago.



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently onlinethegoldenargosy From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 380 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (6 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3672 times:

I'm appalled by the lack of basic respect for crews displayed on this thread.

User currently offlineflight152 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 3397 posts, RR: 6
Reply 47, posted (6 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3630 times:

Quoting newhaven (Reply 39):
BULL ! Your job is to transport passengers. And if your flight is running late already, then too bad.

It's people like you that makes me realize that there are some pretty awful people out there. My well being is a little more important then making sure you make your 20 minute connect of a $120 fare of bought on cheaptickets.com Oh, and just so you know; I've done this a total of two times in the past four years.
Quoting newhaven (Reply 39):
You DO NOT have any business delaying a flight even further, inconveniencing the people who are paying your salary with such a cocky, dismissive comment.

Actually, I do. My company agrees; It says so right in my operating manual.

Quoting newhaven (Reply 39):
And you certainly would not have the authority or backing of your airline going to some sit-down restaurant to intentionally lollygag, lounge and take your time eating

Perhaps you should reread my post.

Quoting newhaven (Reply 39):

Pack a lunch ... like most other working people do.

I do pack a lunch. Problem is; I'm gone FOUR DAYS IN A ROW. The lack of knowledge you have in this industry is surprising.


User currently offlineatct From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2295 posts, RR: 38
Reply 48, posted (6 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3611 times:

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 46):
I'm appalled by the lack of basic respect for crews displayed on this thread.

Respect is earned, not given.



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently onlinethegoldenargosy From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 380 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (6 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3567 times:

Quoting atct (Reply 48):
Respect is earned, not given.

So crews aren't allowed to eat? This thread is like Flyer Talk.


User currently offlinefutureualpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2602 posts, RR: 8
Reply 50, posted (6 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3454 times:

Quoting peachair (Reply 34):
the customer really doesnt care. They pay for a ticket for your company to get them from A to B on-time with their bags. Thats it. For the most part they dont care about anything else.

I know, that attitude is rampant in this thread, but we, the crews, are charged with ensuring we are fit for duty. What the customer wants is important and we don't take decisions to delay a flight lightly, but we absolutely refuse to jeopardize safety in any given regard if we can help it. This includes getting food when we have no other opportunity or means to go about it.

Quoting peachair (Reply 34):
I would say that the company is responsible for ensuring you - the pilot - and crew, have the tools you need to do your job. That includes a mechanically safe airplane, and a schedule that enables you to stay on the schedule.

Part of your statement is often part of the problem. We don't always have schedules that allow us a reasonable spot to take a break and eat. On such occasions, if we have no other option, we'll delay a flight a few minutes to eat.

Quoting newhaven (Reply 39):
BULL ! Your job is to transport passengers. And if your flight is running late already, then too bad. That's why so many flight crews pack snacks to keep themselves going.

You DO NOT have any business delaying a flight even further, inconveniencing the people who are paying your salary with such a cocky, dismissive comment.

And you certainly would not have the authority or backing of your airline going to some sit-down restaurant to intentionally lollygag, lounge and take your time eating ... while you delay things further. You'd deserve to be fired over such a self centered thing as this.

Pack a lunch ... like most other working people do.

Delaying a flight to be sure we are able to perform at our best is very much our business not matter how many words you capitalize. I'd hope as someone who trusts the safety of their flight to the crew you can find a way to understand this. I agree that going to a sit down place is a bad judgement call, but be realistic. Ninety-nine percent of crews who delay a flight for food aren't going to do this. If we opt to take the delay we'll go where we believe we can get a reasonable meal as quickly as possible and return to get the flight out as quickly as is reasonable.

Quoting atct (Reply 45):
I did it for years. Its known as non-perishable food. Check it out next time you visit the grocery store, its a miraculous thing we came up with centuries ago.

And for the overnights where we can't get to/don't have adequate time to go to the store? Or for the later half of the trip when the food from home has run out?

Like we've said before, we'll do everything we can to avoid this but it does happen. Of course it will leave folks unhappy but in the end it is a hell of a lot safer to take a 15 or 20min delay to get food than it is to "suck it up" as one poster said, and press on. It is telling of people's attitudes that they do not think enough of flight crews to consider that we've been at our jobs long enough to know how to plan our meals out nor think that we give consideration to our customers and the schedule. As the saying goes, the best laid plans often go awry. Most of all it worries me to see such a blatant disregard for safety in the name of keeping a schedule.

[Edited 2014-03-24 18:35:53]


Life is better when you surf.
User currently offlinefutureualpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2602 posts, RR: 8
Reply 51, posted (6 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3422 times:

Quoting atct (Reply 48):
Respect is earned, not given.

How about respecting flight crews not as mindless drones in a uniform but as human beings who have needs that must be met?

Or is bit of understanding too much to ask?

[Edited 2014-03-24 18:36:26]


Life is better when you surf.
User currently offlineflight152 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 3397 posts, RR: 6
Reply 52, posted (6 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3328 times:

Quoting newhaven (Reply 39):
BULL ! Your job is to transport passengers. And if your flight is running late already, then too bad.

What else should I not be entitled to in the name of schedule integrity? Restroom breaks? Sleep at night? Time off to see my family? Water?


User currently offlineFlyHossD From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 890 posts, RR: 2
Reply 53, posted (6 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3315 times:

Quoting newhaven (Reply 43):
And i'd LOVE to hear you explain a long sit down dinner delay to your Chief Pilot, big shot. Hey ... maybe you should fly freight! At least you wont have to worry about the customers giving you dirty looks.
Quoting newhaven (Reply 39):
And you certainly would not have the authority or backing of your airline going to some sit-down restaurant to intentionally lollygag, lounge and take your time eating ...

Who - other than you - has stated that a crew should sit down for a meal? Quite the contrary, every one has been talked about the need to "grab a bite" - something that takes 10-15 minutes.

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 46):


I'm appalled by the lack of basic respect for crews displayed on this thread.

Thank you, I agree. Safety must be the priority, customers who don't understand that are fools.



My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
User currently offlineB727FA From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 764 posts, RR: 0
Reply 54, posted (6 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3157 times:

I'm just stunned that people are thinking it's "ok" to ask people to got 14+ hrs w/o a break...of any kind. Do people realize that people need nutrition and restroom breaks to function normally? You'd rather your flight leave at 13:21 or 13:30 and have a crew that could relieve themselves and get buck burger? Amazing. Im a hard worker and I'll charge ahead...but when I need a power bar or a "real" toilet, I'll take it. So, guess what? I'll eat my burger during boarding. I'll go to the bathroom and I might not know you need help with your overstuffed bag. I'm not a robot. I'll bet most of these peeps would NEVER put up without eating or getting a restroom break in their work world. Trust me, we care about the schedule...but my bladder wins every time. Do you REALLY want a crew that is hungry and not on their "full game?" Really?


My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
User currently offlineN353SK From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 822 posts, RR: 0
Reply 55, posted (6 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3105 times:

Quoting newhaven (Reply 39):
You DO NOT have any business delaying a flight even further, inconveniencing the people who are paying your salary with such a cocky, dismissive comment.

Well then feel free to bring him a sandwich the next time you're on his flight.

My company has a clause buried in the pilot contract stating that a pilot can radio ahead to the hub, request a crew meal, and have it delivered to the gate in the event of a delay. My employer has not honored this policy since 2008. So yes, crew at my company go grab food when they're hungry. The airline could easily avoid taking delays for crews grabbing lunch as the language and framework has existed for almost a decade, but they choose not to.


User currently offlinesilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2104 posts, RR: 1
Reply 56, posted (6 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3091 times:

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 46):

I'm appalled by the lack of basic respect for crews displayed on this thread.

I'm not the least bit surprised. There are a lot of internet tough guys that love to get behind a keyboard and bash out the abuse that they have been cooking up after dealing with a minor inconvenience.

Quoting atct (Reply 48):
Respect is earned, not given.

Funny how must of the people that say that about respecting crews still expect airline employees to treat the passengers with the utmost respect from the moment they show up at the airport. You can't be belligerent and expect everyone to fawn all over you.


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 57, posted (6 months 19 hours ago) and read 2902 times:

Quoting Highflier92660 (Thread starter):
Captain and F/O making a mad dash up the escalator leaving the poor hapless desk agents to fend for themselves against the thundering herd, only to re-emerge some minutes later with grilled goodness from the Green Iguana restuarant in Terminal A. Where is all this in the procedures training manual of Silver Airways?

A few years ago I used to fly SDF-MCI-DAL on WN frequently - departing about 1730L at SDF.

Almost every flight at STL - one of the pilots would go into the terminal and pick up orders from the pilots and FAs from California Pizza Kitchen. (The pilot would do it as part of his check with dispatch, the FAs were busy getting the cabin ready for reboarding, and STL is where they took off the trash and added new drinks/ snacks).

This aircraft would start in Florida - TPA I think - before the stop in SDF - then continue to SFO after MCI where I got off for my transfer to the MDW-MCI-DAL-HOU aircraft.

We were delayed once because the restaurant had not got the phoned in orders ready when the aircraft arrived. The pilot apologized, but assured us that no one would miss a connection at MCI, and he would make up the time on the flight to SFO.

As he put it "You've all eaten the foot at most of the airports along this route - and probably agree with us that the pizza at St Louis is the best food on the trip."


User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3357 posts, RR: 6
Reply 58, posted (6 months 15 hours ago) and read 2655 times:

Quoting newhaven (Reply 43):
And your level of professionalism and dignity boggles my mind. Calling your passengers self entitled weenies because they expect you to transport them on time to their destination.

Maybe pilots' professionalism would be more up your standards if the manager at the McDonald's they're getting their crew meal from wasn't making more money than they were.

Quoting newhaven (Reply 43):
And i'd LOVE to hear you explain a long sit down dinner delay to your Chief Pilot, big shot.

Pretty sure the chief pilot would be on his side and tell you to shut up.

Quoting silentbob (Reply 56):
Funny how must of the people that say that about respecting crews still expect airline employees to treat the passengers with the utmost respect from the moment they show up at the airport. You can't be belligerent and expect everyone to fawn all over you.

  


User currently offlinefreeze3192 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 59, posted (6 months 9 hours ago) and read 2425 times:

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 58):

Pretty sure the chief pilot would be on his side and tell you to shut up.

  

Quoting newhaven (Reply 43):

And your level of professionalism and dignity boggles my mind. Calling your passengers self entitled weenies because they expect you to transport them on time to their destination.

And i'd LOVE to hear you explain a long sit down dinner delay to your Chief Pilot, big shot. Hey ... maybe you should fly freight! At least you wont have to worry about the customers giving you dirty looks.

What a sad excuse for a pilot ... and what a crap attitude .... Sad.

Once again, a well versed traveler who thinks they are an expert in my field of work. I don't go into doctor's offices and claim to be able to diagnose each patient. I don't give legal advice to people pretending that I'm a lawyer.

You have no business questioning my professionalism. You don't know me. You have NO IDEA what professionalism as an airline pilot actually is. Plus, you questioning my professionalism in my career for getting something to eat sheds further light on how much you really know about this profession. NOTHING.

Part of professionalism for an airline pilot is showing up to work 100% fit for duty. Part of making sure I am fit for duty is that I am well hydrated, and well nourished. I even have to sign a statement for each flight concerning regulations, aircraft airworthiness, and that I am FIT FOR DUTY. I am not signing my name to a legal document admissible to court if I do not believe the statements to be true.

I'd love to let you listen to a conversation between my Chief Pilot and I regarding an instance where I delayed a flight to become hydrated and well nourished. The phone call would be 30 seconds in length. I'd even be willing to bet that if you called my airline and complained that I delayed a flight for physiological reasons, I wouldn't even get a phone call. The buck would stop at my Chief Pilot. I'm 100% certain that my Chief Pilot (and my CEO for crying out loud) would much rather have 1 delayed flight because my crew needed to eat than a smoking hole in the ground as a result of my FO or I blacking out on a 200-1/2 approach from low blood sugar.

Sad excuse for a pilot? You have no idea what makes a good pilot and no idea what makes a good attitude in a pilot. Why don't you stick to what you know. I'm sure you're the same kind of traveler that I described above. I'm also sure that you probably balk at crew rest delays in the morning. "Why doesn't the airline have other crews standing by in case this happens? This is ridiculous. I'm never flying XYZ again. Why does the crew need 10 hours of rest? I only sleep 6 hrs before I go to work."

The airline passenger has gone the way of the American public. It's all about ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME.



"A passenger bets his life that his pilot is a worthy heir to an ancient tradition of excellence and professionalism."
User currently offlineSalukipilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 60, posted (6 months 9 hours ago) and read 2424 times:

Wow this thread is even more reason why I haven't posted much on a.net.

I'm a Silver CA, been here about 2 years. Previous airline was Trans States.

Some of you really need to seek professional help.



Silver Airways Captain
User currently offlineHighflier92660 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 676 posts, RR: 0
Reply 61, posted (5 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2075 times:

But no one here ever had to fly with Gary. He could make a forty-two minute trip from SBP to LAX an hour long. In physical presence and personality he was a slightly shorter duplicate of actor Steve Carell in Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgandy. Gary longed for the flying public- particularly the female half- to view him as heroic and dashing so he wore a freshly purchased uniform from Tarpy Tailors his mother had bought for him. As a new-hire it didn't matter what I bid, I always ended up flying with Gary much to the delight of everyone it seemed from the chief pilot on down. Since I was over a half-foot taller and a little more conventional in aviation appearance, we made for a slightly comedic cockpit combination.

Now I told you that so I could tell you this. Our first flight of the day departed San Luis Obispo just after six a.m. Ordinarily if there were no low hanging stratus or frontal systems we could blast out of there, climb to our assigned 17 or 19 thousand and, cutting the corners around San Marcos and Ventura, block-in to LAX in under 40 minutes. With some of our trip bid-lines, this was our best opportunity to grab a somewhat leisurely breakfast and have enough energy to continue the long duty day. Unfortunately with Gary in the left seat, nothing was ever done easily or efficiently. "I do not do visual approaches."

" ******* depart SMO heading 070 for vectors ILS runway 24R."

With Gary in command, we would figuratively fly half way to Ontario before SoCal would turn us inbound. And once on terra firma, he would not eat breakfast at the low-cost LAX employees cafeteria at the base of the LAX Theme Building. Why? Because he enjoyed strutting inside the terminal with his Tarpy Tailor uniform emblazoned with four stripes. So I had the choice of either starving or humoring Gary and walking with him straight into a rediculously overpriced Host airport restaurant just so everyone would think he was a captain of a really big metal mainline aircraft. Flying with Gary was expensive.

I often wonder what ever became of him.


User currently offlineatct From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2295 posts, RR: 38
Reply 62, posted (5 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1948 times:

Quoting futureualpilot (Reply 51):
Or is bit of understanding too much to ask?

I believe you failed to read my background. I more than understand as I was at a company that is, by some sentiments, worse than Silver. I did the 9 legs a day thing for $15 a flight hour. It sucked. Our company could not have made money (and they didn't, but it helps when you have a mechanic to work on your planes instead of waiting on broke planes) otherwise.

I expect my crew to be at my plane, ready to fly, when the time on the ticket says so. I expect nothing more, and nothing less. Late flights due to weather, the crews failure to pre plan, the airlines lack of planning, etc, is not of my concern. This is why I won't fly Silver and a lot of people would not fly RegionsAir when I was there.

Flame me all you want, I now work 6 days a week because of my employers inability to pre-plan hiring needs but at least I can now afford a nice car and all the perishable food I want because I did my time at the crappy regional, did it well, and moved on. I paid my dues, it sucked, but it's a necessary evil to move on in our career.

This all falls down to this;
"Failure to pre-plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine." Go buy some instant rice packets, throw em in the galley oven, and chow down.

atct



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently offlineB727FA From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 764 posts, RR: 0
Reply 63, posted (5 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1781 times:

Quoting atct (Reply 62):
Go buy some instant rice packets, throw em in the galley oven, and chow down.

Galley oven!            



My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21637 posts, RR: 55
Reply 64, posted (5 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1725 times:

Quoting atct (Reply 62):
This all falls down to this;
"Failure to pre-plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine."

Failure to pre-plan a proper schedule on the airline's part does not constitute an emergency on the crew's that necessitates them skimping on their physiological needs.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinefreeze3192 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 65, posted (5 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1468 times:

Quoting atct (Reply 62):
I believe you failed to read my background. I more than understand as I was at a company that is, by some sentiments, worse than Silver. I did the 9 legs a day thing for $15 a flight hour. It sucked. Our company could not have made money (and they didn't, but it helps when you have a mechanic to work on your planes instead of waiting on broke planes) otherwise.

I expect my crew to be at my plane, ready to fly, when the time on the ticket says so. I expect nothing more, and nothing less. Late flights due to weather, the crews failure to pre plan, the airlines lack of planning, etc, is not of my concern. This is why I won't fly Silver and a lot of people would not fly RegionsAir when I was there.

Flame me all you want, I now work 6 days a week because of my employers inability to pre-plan hiring needs but at least I can now afford a nice car and all the perishable food I want because I did my time at the crappy regional, did it well, and moved on. I paid my dues, it sucked, but it's a necessary evil to move on in our career.

This all falls down to this;
"Failure to pre-plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine." Go buy some instant rice packets, throw em in the galley oven, and chow down.

Pretty appalling coming from someone who supposedly worked as a flight crew member in this industry.

I don't work for Silver but I suppose at RegionsAir, who flew the Saab as well (and apparently you did too) never had a MX delay causing the schedule to run behind? I'm sure Silver has MX at TPA, as it it one of their bases. Maybe it was waiting for parts? Did you guys ever wait for parts at RegionsAir? Or did you just fly unairworthy airplanes when mech came out and said the part will be there in four hours?

The fact that you think regional aircraft (especially the Saab, which YOU FLEW) has galley ovens is quite hilarious. It shows just how out of touch you are. Even if you were at RegionsAir till the end, it's still a much different industry now than it was then. At small airlines like Silver, there are no spare aircraft. They are being utilized to the maximum extent possible. If a MX delay happens, it has a snowball effect throughout the day, and maybe if your turns are quick enough, and you have enough down time built into the schedule, the day MIGHT finish on time.

My airline did 9-10 legs per day in our pre-contract days too. And in those days, my CP would still back me up if I delayed a flight to get food and/or use the restroom.

Paying your dues ≠ Going hungry in order to get the flight out on time.



"A passenger bets his life that his pilot is a worthy heir to an ancient tradition of excellence and professionalism."
User currently offlinefutureualpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2602 posts, RR: 8
Reply 66, posted (5 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1407 times:

Quoting atct (Reply 35):

[quote=atct,reply=62]

I read it just fine. If you were in fact a professional pilot I would expect better from you. Jeopardizing safety by not eating is unacceptable. Your highest responsibility is the safety of your crew, your passengers, and the airplane. Not the schedule. If the integrity of the schedule can be maintained without sacrificing safety, fantastic. If not, safety wins. Every time, without exception. This includes meeting the most fundamental of human needs of the crew.

Emergency because you get delayed a few minutes while we get food? Please. I can see we won't agree, so it boils down to what I've already said: if I can avoid delaying a flight through proper planning, I absolutely will. Our passengers deserve what they paid for. A safe trip, as close to the scheduled times as can reasonably be expected. To expect your crew to go hungry just to save a 15min (if even that long) delay is unreasonable.

[Edited 2014-03-27 12:22:33]


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