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Australian Aviation #93  
User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5624 posts, RR: 5
Posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 15815 times:

Greetings all, and welcome to the next instalment of AusAv. After a burst of excitement in February when we churned through these threads at quite a clip in the lead up the Qantas half-year results, things seem to have returned to a more sedate pace.

Australian Aviation Thread Part 92 (by allrite Mar 8 2014 in Civil Aviation)

In 92 we touched on the following:

*Allrite composed a little ditty
*Discussion of Qantas' Asian network
*Discussion of Qantas' LHR times/A380 network
*Discussion of Darwin as a potential northern hub
*RIP VH-OJC  
*New routes for QF and JQ (QF SYD-HVB, JQ MEL-AYQ etc)
*Rex launches SYD-ARM
*Rex seeks public assistance
*Qantas and Bangkok Airways launch codeshare, potential for same-same at CGK/MNL?
*ATSB report a doubling of turbulence events over this [very hot] summer
*Lionair v CASA, Round 2 ding-ding
*QF16 moves to TBIT, all LAX operations under one roof
*CAPA reckons that 10 more Asian LCCs are considering Australia
*JQ discontinues AKL-SIN

May your skies remain as clear as Virgin's ownership structure and your flying as smooth as Qantas' restructuring

  

[Edited 2014-03-23 23:48:22]


Worked Hard, Flew Right
216 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5624 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 15781 times:

To get the ball rolling, I found this article very interesting:

http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...ntas-and-virgin-recalibrate-158525

I'm not sure what I was supposed to take away from it, other than that the WA economy grew rapidly between 2010 and 2013, but I nonetheless found it to be an interesting interpretation of the recent capacity growth from QF and VA.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 15726 times:

Its the typical boom and bust cycle really.

Add so much capacity when things heat up, but they both seem unwilling to cede ground when things cool off.

They both went in hard, with QF's buy out of Network and VA's Skywest takeover. Now it will be interesting to see who blinks first.


User currently onlinebunumuring From Australia, joined Jan 2014, 987 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 15698 times:
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Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 2):
They both went in hard, with QF's buy out of Network and VA's Skywest takeover. Now it will be interesting to see who blinks first.

Hi mate,
Well, Skywest and it's ATR operations appear to be more valuable to Virgin group-wide than Network's Fokker operation to Qantas group-wide. My opinion anyway! Discussion?
Cheers,
Bunumuring.



I just wanna live while I'm alive!
User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 15696 times:

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 3):
Well, Skywest and it's ATR operations appear to be more valuable to Virgin group-wide than Network's Fokker operation to Qantas group-wide. My opinion anyway! Discussion?

I tend to agree.

Given that the aircraft are utilised on a broader scale in the case of VA Regional (across several states), it seems to have added potential over QF's Network operation.


User currently onlinebunumuring From Australia, joined Jan 2014, 987 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 15672 times:
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Hi all,
An out-of-left-centre question ...
A few years ago I read a children's collection of short biographies of famous Australians. The one that caught my eye was on Reg Ansett. The reason? He was photographed in what I assume was his office with his arm resting on a very large scale DC-10 model in slightly modified Ansett 'red delta' colours. The only modification to the colourscheme was the titles, which were bolder / larger in size to those used at the time. The model was fully in shot, at an angle of about 45degrees to the camera, thereby allowing it's whole fuselage and tail to be seen. It was slightly nose-up and definitely was meant to be a focus of the photo.
I realise that all aircraft manufacturers at the time would've made presentations to airline heads with models as part of their presentations, but what was the story behind this model? I have always wondered. It was very large and very prominently placed in the office ... Or maybe it just made for a good 'prop' for the photo?
I recall being surprised at the time that a 'proposed' airliner would be featured and not a contemporary one.
Any recollections or information would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Bunumuring.



I just wanna live while I'm alive!
User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5624 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 15668 times:

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 3):
Skywest and it's ATR operations appear to be more valuable to Virgin group-wide than Network's Fokker operation to Qantas group-wide.

While the split between East and West is less evident now that Skywest (West) is being rebranded as Virgin Australia, I think we should exclude the ATR fleet from this discussion.

Virgin contracted Skywest (then a private company) to operate the ATR-72 on the East Coast in competition with QantasLink. That was a fundamental part of the Virgin Australia (proper) expansion plan.

The respective takeovers of the WA Fokker fleets are unrelated to this operation (or, for that matter, QantasLink). Buying up Network and Skywest (West) was about each carrier expanding their presence in the WA market. It is possible (although unlikely) that QF could reduce Network's FIFO ops, and VA could do the same with Skywest's intra-WA ops.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineeaglefarm4 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 458 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 15640 times:

Rayanair Guru the opposite will happen very shortly in regards to Network Aviation .Watch this space.

I assume you are not aware that Network are extremely close to getting their RPT AOC.



tourismman
User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3094 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 15432 times:

Quoting eaglefarm4 (Reply 7):
Rayanair Guru the opposite will happen very shortly in regards to Network Aviation .Watch this space.

I assume you are not aware that Network are extremely close to getting their RPT AOC.

I was just about to chime in with that. If anything what I see happening in the intra-WA market, gvien the QF dominance of scheduled services, is them using Network aircraft more to fly some of the mainline services which will plug holes in Networks utilisation which will in turn mean 738's, or 717's, based in Perth can be released and based back East.


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 15159 times:

Quoting sydscott (Reply 8):
I was just about to chime in with that. If anything what I see happening in the intra-WA market, gvien the QF dominance of scheduled services, is them using Network aircraft more to fly some of the mainline services which will plug holes in Networks utilisation which will in turn mean 738's, or 717's, based in Perth can be released and based back East.

That makes more sense.

Using the assets wiser is a much better move. If capacity is currently too high, moving the Network aircraft will be a better fit for what it needs.


User currently offlineVH-BZF From Australia, joined Oct 1999, 840 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 14852 times:

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 5):

I believe that Lockheed at the time, late 70's also proposed the L1011 in Qantas, Ansett & TAA colour schemes as well. It was all part of the proposals back then and I believe that McDonnell Douglas did the same with it's DC-10's hoping that both domestic carriers and QF would take on the tri-jets into their fleets. I believe these proposals paved the way for the A300 and B767 to be ordered for the domestic airlines.

BZF



Ansett Australia - (was) One of the worlds great airlines!
User currently offlineZuluAlpha From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 406 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 14727 times:

Quoting eaglefarm4 (Reply 7):
I assume you are not aware that Network are extremely close to getting their RPT AOC.
Quoting sydscott (Reply 8):
I was just about to chime in with that. If anything what I see happening in the intra-WA market, gvien the QF dominance of scheduled services, is them using Network aircraft more to fly some of the mainline services which will plug holes in Networks utilisation which will in turn mean 738's, or 717's, based in Perth can be released and based back East.

And with this .. does anyone have an idea who would have the lower cost base Network or QFlink / Cobham?



CRJ CR7 D10 DHT DH8 DH2 DH3 DH4 EMB ER3 E90 F28 J32 M80 SH6 320 332 333 380 717 732 733 734 738 743 744 752 762 763 772
User currently offlineqf2220 From Australia, joined Aug 2013, 518 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 14593 times:

Quoting sydscott (Reply 8):

Interesting. The Fokkers have 100 seats so replacing service with them will be a capacity reduction. Some sense returning? Would these be painted up as QFLink planes too?

Also, we know that there is a shortage of 717s (ie none) to grow the QantasLink fleet, what is the market like for F100s if QF was to expand this operation in WA? Or, perhaps eventually replace the whole 717 fleet with F100s (though there is probably a case for both fleets to be replaced with something else, maybe the C series if it works?


User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17067 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 14559 times:

Hi all!

I am planning some domestic flights for August on JQ. What I wonder is if JQ's timetable is already set for August. For instance looking on MEL-SYD on Aug 12 shows two flights (A320 + A330) leaving within 5 minutes of each other (JQ518 @ 14:10, JQ4 @ 14:15). Is that a valid schedule, or will there be changes later on? Would be disappointed to see a narrowbody if I book my tickets on JQ4 specifically to get the A330.



Also does QF8 (DFW-BNE-SYD) arrive at the international or domestic terminal in SYD?



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently onlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 14551 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 13):
I am planning some domestic flights for August on JQ. What I wonder is if JQ's timetable is already set for August. For instance looking on MEL-SYD on Aug 12 shows two flights (A320 + A330) leaving within 5 minutes of each other (JQ518 @ 14:10, JQ4 @ 14:15). Is that a valid schedule, or will there be changes later on? Would be disappointed to see a narrowbody if I book my tickets on JQ4 specifically to get the A330.

JQ4 is an int'l add-on flight so will always be A330 (or 787) and will depart from int'l terminal though you can fly it just as a domestic sector though need to check in earlier etc.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 13):
Also does QF8 (DFW-BNE-SYD) arrive at the international or domestic terminal in SYD?

Int'l



717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,A310,320,321,332,333,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,S
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17067 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 14540 times:

Thanks for the quick reply!

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 14):
JQ4 is an int'l add-on flight so will always be A330 (or 787) and will depart from int'l terminal though you can fly it just as a domestic sector though need to check in earlier etc.

So the schedule is actually valid then. Not often you see an airline schedule two flights within 5 minutes of each other on the same route.

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 14):
Int'l

Assume all DFW originating passengers will clear customs at BNE.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently onlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 14536 times:

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 12):
Also, we know that there is a shortage of 717s (ie none) to grow the QantasLink fleet, what is the market like for F100s if QF was to expand this operation in WA? Or, perhaps eventually replace the whole 717 fleet with F100s (though there is probably a case for both fleets to be replaced with something else, maybe the C series if it works?

There are plenty of F100s around but they are all getting a bit old. F100s are great for mining ops where they have good runway performance and are very tolerant of less than perfect strips. I assume both VA and QF will hold onto them as long as they economically can.

QF would probably like more 717s though there aren't that many around with DL having taken all of the old AirTran 717s from WN to replace their DC9s and oldest MD80s. It is probably likely that QF would look to replace their whole regional jet fleet with a single type at some point in the future with C Series or E-Jets being the logical current candidates though this is a few years off so it may be different by then.

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 11):
And with this .. does anyone have an idea who would have the lower cost base Network or QFlink / Cobham?

I would assume they are both pretty similar given they compete in the FIFO sector. Could it be that QF will use Network's RPT AOC as the operator of some of those shiny new A320s which Jetstar don't really need but which would look great in QF colors replacing the oldest 738s??



717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,A310,320,321,332,333,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,S
User currently offlinezkokq From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 478 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 14484 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 15):
So the schedule is actually valid then. Not often you see an airline schedule two flights within 5 minutes of each other on the same route.

Not really the samething. Who would want to checkin earlier at the international terminal, when you can do the same flight and have a later checkin. This flight isnt really a domestic flight..

Other then Aviation enthusists, the normal person would go the narrowbody because its cheaper and less hassle.


User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17067 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 14460 times:

Quoting zkokq (Reply 17):
Other then Aviation enthusists, the normal person would go the narrowbody because its cheaper and less hassle.

Might be so, but you get more legroom on the A330 compared to the A320 31in/28in



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5624 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 14437 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 18):
Might be so, but you get more legroom on the A330 compared to the A320 31in/28in

If you want to fly the A330 then nobody is stopping you, but do understand that you are loosing the benefits of domestic flights (ability to turn up 30 mins before your flight, easy security etc).

To answer your original question, yes I think you can trust these schedules because JQ4 is not intended to be a MEL-SYD flight. If they pick up 1 local passenger then happy days, but the flights aren't "competing" against themselves.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 15):
Assume all DFW originating passengers will clear customs at BNE.

No, Sydney.

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 12):
The Fokkers have 100 seats so replacing service with them will be a capacity reduction. Some sense returning?

If I'm reading the above right, I think they are replacing the similarly sized 717s so that they can move back east.

Even if they are replacing 737s to places like KTA, PHE etc, I don't think that is as much about "sense returning" but localised changes in response to the slowdown in the resources sector.

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 12):
Would these be painted up as QFLink planes too?

If they are operating QF services then almost certainly yes.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17067 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 14425 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 19):
Quoting B747forever (Reply 15):
Assume all DFW originating passengers will clear customs at BNE.

No, Sydney.

How are passengers that board at BNE for the BNE-SYD sector separated from the international ones?



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently onlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 14418 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 20):
How are passengers that board at BNE for the BNE-SYD sector separated from the international ones?

They are not. The domestic pax get a special "D" boarding pass that identifies them as domestic pax but they still have to go through some minor Immigration check when they depart BNE and arrive in SYD. Likewise a domestic pax on this flight can be subject to Customs inspection of luggage even though they are nominally domestic.

This is the same for all domestic add-ons like JQ4 hence why most people tend to avoid them unless absolutely necessary.



717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,A310,320,321,332,333,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,S
User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5624 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 14409 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 20):
How are passengers that board at BNE for the BNE-SYD sector separated from the international ones?

They're not ... which is why the flight arrives and departs from the international terminal. The same will apply on JQ4 (which is MEL-SYD-HNL, the US bound passengers are mixed with the "domestic" ones)

When you fly an international flight in Australia as a domestic flight you will need to:

1) check-in something like 90 minutes before your flight (which is an instant deal breaker for 95% of pax)
2) go through immigration (although this only involves showing your boarding pass)
3) go through international security (complete with all ICAO standards such as 100ml rules etc, which don't apply for domestic flights)

at the other end:

1) go through immigration (although, again, this only involves showing your boarding pass)
2) go through customs and AQIS (and they probably will subject you to the same searches in case you are carrying for a passenger of the international flight)

The passengers on the "domestic" flight have gone through all the same procedures as the international passengers, other than they won't be interrogated by immigration and customs.

[Edited 2014-03-25 17:31:42]


Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently onlineqfvhoqa From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 454 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 14393 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 1):
To get the ball rolling, I found this article very interesting:

http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...ntas-and-virgin-recalibrate-158525

I'm not sure what I was supposed to take away from it, other than that the WA economy grew rapidly between 2010 and 2013, but I nonetheless found it to be an interesting interpretation of the recent capacity growth from QF and VA.

This article raises some interesting points relevant to a possible expansion of Network Aviation. Average load factors on PER-PHE are 58.5% and decreased 5.5% from 2011-2013. Similarly PER-KTA had an average of 58.9% and decreased 7.5% from 2011.
QF could downgauge 738 flights to 717s, and use Network's F100s on former 717 routes. Looking at Network's utilisation, some days an aircraft will operate one FIFO charter in the morning and sit idle at PER until the next day.

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 16):
There are plenty of F100s around but they are all getting a bit old.

The last F100s were built in 1994 so all are at least 20 years old by now. AA stored theirs after 10 years, so they must have limited potential in scheduled ops.


User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5624 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 14373 times:

Quoting qfvhoqa (Reply 23):
they must have limited potential in scheduled ops.

Among others, KLM would beg to differ.

The 717 is 5-10 years ahead of the F100 in terms of technology, but the Fokker is a great airplane. It is probably the best 100 seater of its generation, compared to the BAe146 etc. As others said, it has very good field performance, and is pretty rugged. It is pretty much perfect for FIFO, which is why Network, Alliance, Skywest etc all use it.

For the potential QFLink services that it could be used on (pretty much the same as FIFO ) there is arguably nothing better. Maybe the 717, but that's it. And don't bother mentioning the E-Jet.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offline777Jet From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 1873 posts, RR: 4
Reply 25, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 14473 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 15):
Quoting tullamarine (Reply 14):
JQ4 is an int'l add-on flight so will always be A330 (or 787) and will depart from int'l terminal though you can fly it just as a domestic sector though need to check in earlier etc.

So the schedule is actually valid then. Not often you see an airline schedule two flights within 5 minutes of each other on the same route.

Yes. 5 mins apart but from different terminals. When flying to MEL from SYD I always try to book the flight departing from the Intl terminal as it is an A330-200 - much better than flying an A320. But, you do need to check-in at least 60 or 90 mins before departure following Intl check-in rules and you do need to go through passport control but you only need a driver's licence. I can't wait until more 787s to fly the 788 from SYD-MEL as an Intl add-on flight. The last time I did this the plane landed in MEL and continued on to BKK.

I also often fly SYD-OOL on the 332 doing this as it then continues on to Japan.

[Edited 2014-03-25 18:47:40]


DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90,717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788,306,320,321,332/3,346,388
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17067 posts, RR: 10
Reply 26, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 14013 times:

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 21):
Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 22):

Thanks for the replies.

Wow, didnt now that it was that complicated. Booked myself on QF8 (BNE-SYD only) specifically to get on the 747-400ER.


What happens with DFW PAX that continues to SYD during the stopover in BNE if they dont clear immigration?



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5624 posts, RR: 5
Reply 27, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 14184 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 26):
What happens with DFW PAX that continues to SYD during the stopover in BNE if they dont clear immigration?

They're released into the terminal as if it was any normal connection: get off the plane, proceed to the transfer desk, go through security etc.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offline777Jet From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 1873 posts, RR: 4
Reply 28, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 14082 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 26):
Booked myself on QF8 (BNE-SYD only) specifically to get on the 747-400ER.

I did not know that you could do this but I had never checked. That might be the easiest way to fly on a 744ER! Thanks for that!



DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90,717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788,306,320,321,332/3,346,388
User currently offlinecbrboy From Australia, joined Apr 2007, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 13930 times:

Quoting zkokq (Reply 17):
Who would want to checkin earlier at the international terminal, when you can do the same flight and have a later checkin.

Those with access to the Qantas First Class Lounge in the International Terminal.


User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 2085 posts, RR: 4
Reply 30, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 13827 times:

These threads are going slow again. Let's mention Qantas.   

Qantas is "letting go" 26 senior managers according to SMH.

But I'm not actually grinning. Good luck to all those being made redundant by Qantas, you have my profound sympathies. May you quickly find new jobs that you enjoy.

Edited to remove names

[Edited 2014-03-26 21:58:46]


Applying insanity to normality
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25323 posts, RR: 85
Reply 31, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 13757 times:
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Quoting allrite (Reply 30):
Let's mention Qantas.

I can do that.

I mean no disrespect to any of those losing their jobs by asking something so trivial but, is there any chance that Network Aviation will get a decent livery - Qantas inspired, perhaps?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently onlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 13712 times:

Quoting allrite (Reply 30):

These threads are going slow again. Let's mention Qantas.   

Qantas is "letting go" 26 senior managers according to SMH.

Article remains vague as to how QF get to the 5000 figure they announced. Lots of speculation that this figure was dreamed up to frighten the government into a guarantee which it obviously hasn't. For the sake of the employees affected, I hope Qantas are shortly more forthcoming. I was working in Ansett during its never-ending restructures and to call it demoralising was an understatement.



717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,A310,320,321,332,333,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,S
User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2987 posts, RR: 2
Reply 33, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 13706 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 31):
I mean no disrespect to any of those losing their jobs by asking something so trivial but, is there any chance that Network Aviation will get a decent livery - Qantas inspired, perhaps?

The titles are okay, they just need to replace the tail with a standard QF one. Is there any particular reason for Network to maintain their own brand?


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25323 posts, RR: 85
Reply 34, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 13678 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting qf002 (Reply 33):
The titles are okay, they just need to replace the tail with a standard QF one. Is there any particular reason for Network to maintain their own brand?

I find the titles fairly bland, and the tail with the big N is about as unimaginative as I can imagine. I don't usually care about livery, but this one surprised me because it is so utilitarian.

I don't know much about Network, but since it is a wholly owns subsidiary I can't think of any reason for it to retain its own identity, but there may be things of which I'm not aware, some wording in the contract that ties it to something, an ego, perhaps?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently onlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (6 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 13690 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 34):
I find the titles fairly bland, and the tail with the big N is about as unimaginative as I can imagine. I don't usually care about livery, but this one surprised me because it is so utilitarian.

I don't know much about Network, but since it is a wholly owns subsidiary I can't think of any reason for it to retain its own identity, but there may be things of which I'm not aware, some wording in the contract that ties it to something, an ego, perhaps?

I assume there is nothing stopping QF putting the roo on the tail of Network planes but it may be similar to the situation when Eastern, Southern and Sunstate Airlines were denied the roo. It was widely believed that QF management (at the time) felt that if there were to be a hull loss it was more likely to be in a regional airline and they didn't want a smoking QF tail appearing in the press. Eventually common sense prevailed and this was changed.

[Edited 2014-03-26 23:12:06]


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User currently offlineSingapore 777 From Australia, joined May 1999, 1015 posts, RR: 3
Reply 36, posted (6 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 13666 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 26):
What happens with DFW PAX that continues to SYD during the stopover in BNE if they dont clear immigration?

They get off the aircraft, go through security and go back upstairs to the departure level to the same boarding gate they just alighted from.

Basically, similar to an international connection.


User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3094 posts, RR: 20
Reply 37, posted (6 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 13666 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 34):
I don't know much about Network, but since it is a wholly owns subsidiary I can't think of any reason for it to retain its own identity, but there may be things of which I'm not aware, some wording in the contract that ties it to something, an ego, perhaps?

They have maintained the brand up until now because Network has solely been focused on FIFO work and those flying on Network have not been able to earn FF points or anything like that. So although it's part of Qantas, it's not part of Qantas. (If that makes sense)

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 35):
I assume there is nothing stopping QF putting the roo on the tail of Network planes but it may be similar to the situation when Eastern, Southern and Sunstate Airlines were denied the roo

It will be interesting to see what they do if and when Network start scheduled passenger service. I'd say QF will assign them their own special range of flight numbers and simply swap out the Cobham 717's for the Network F100's. So QF 9170, or whatever, operated by Network Aviation. That would release the Cobham 717's from PER.


User currently offlinejrfspa320 From Australia, joined Sep 2005, 251 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (6 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 13511 times:

Do the network F100s have 34" pitch, same as skywest?

if so could be reconfigured for more seats.


User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 2085 posts, RR: 4
Reply 39, posted (6 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 13382 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 33):
The titles are okay, they just need to replace the tail with a standard QF one.
If they stil have their silver EMB-120s then they'd need a bit more paintwork, or maybe a Jetstar scheme instead!  
Quoting jrfspa320 (Reply 38):
Do the network F100s have 34" pitch, same as skywest?

Their website says "up to 34 inch".



Applying insanity to normality
User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 2085 posts, RR: 4
Reply 40, posted (6 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 13332 times:

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 32):
Article remains vague as to how QF get to the 5000 figure they announced. Lots of speculation that this figure was dreamed up to frighten the government into a guarantee which it obviously hasn't. For the sake of the employees affected, I hope Qantas are shortly more forthcoming.

Trying to satisfy the govt without having a well thought up plan wouldn't surprise me based on the experience at my government affiliated workplace. Big cuts were "announced" in the media and amongst the larger group of which I am a part figures of a 30 - 50% reduction in staff are expected. But... they hadn't even got a plan or costings for staff reductions before it was announced - modern leadership isn't into details. But at least senior HR managers seem to be excited.  



Applying insanity to normality
User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2987 posts, RR: 2
Reply 41, posted (6 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 13352 times:

In other QF related news, big changes are coming with regards to point accrual rates and structures. I haven't had a chance to look through in depth yet, but details -- http://www.qantas.com.au/fflyer/dyn/...gram/fairer-flying#changes-to-earn

Edit -- having now actually read through everything, this will be a massive devaluation for most travellers. I'm generally a supporter of QF, but this is a really desperate grab for savings, which IMO are unnecessary when frequent flyer is generating a profit of $300m a year.

It also looks an awful lot like the sort of move they would make during preparations for a sale/float IMO.

[Edited 2014-03-27 03:30:43]

[Edited 2014-03-27 03:31:31]

User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 2085 posts, RR: 4
Reply 42, posted (6 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 13325 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 41):
In other QF related news, big changes are coming with regards to point accrual rates and structures.

Doesn't look any simpler to me... East Coast Australia to Japan looks like a big loser to me. 5 less status credits and almost half the points gone for SYD-NRT by my reckoning. Thankfully this year's flight is just before the changeover.

New minimum is also 800 points rather than 1000. Basically, anybody not prepared to stump up the big bucks is worse off. Discount economy is now even worse value.

How is this supposed to help loyalty? Hope they make higher status easier to earn in compensation. Not happy right now.

Ah, I see it now. If you ain't in (big) business or rich you should be worse off. Helps to keep the riff raff out of the lounges. Another government condition imposed on Qantas?

Edit:
Looks like selecting a fare is going to get more complicated as well. Wonder if Qantas will introduce Jetstar style "bundles" for adding "flexibility" to purchases.


[Edited 2014-03-27 03:43:56]


[Edited 2014-03-27 03:54:44]

[Edited 2014-03-27 03:55:29]


Applying insanity to normality
User currently offlinejrfspa320 From Australia, joined Sep 2005, 251 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (6 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 13312 times:

The changes generally don't sound great for most travelers
Seems very silly at a time when customer loyalty is critical for them....more reason to go to VA


User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 2085 posts, RR: 4
Reply 44, posted (6 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 13188 times:

Quoting allrite (Reply 42):
Looks like selecting a fare is going to get more complicated as well. Wonder if Qantas will introduce Jetstar style "bundles" for adding "flexibility" to purchases.

To answer myself (forums were down, so I couldn't edit), the flexibility options are not presented as bundles but as columns with associated prices. I suppose much like previously but with different titles IIRC. Also, the points required to change status tiers remain the same.

What really irritates me is that Qantas are portraying the changes as simpler and fairer when it is quite obviously neither. Maybe they confused fairer with more fares.



Applying insanity to normality
User currently offlineAirniugini From Australia, joined Mar 2010, 237 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (6 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 13131 times:

Quoting allrite (Reply 42):
How is this supposed to help loyalty? Hope they make higher status easier to earn in compensation. Not happy right now.

I'm with you mate... From what I can see, it looks like while status credits will still be pretty much the same, but miles earned will be less. Talk about smack-down!!! For flights my flights to Asia and domestic, I have to book the best fare of the day which is always discount economy... so it looks like I will loose a bit...

Maybe they did need to change, maybe we had it too good for too long ey... who knows.  

Has anyone on here made the switch to VA? Was/ is it worth it? Fingers crossed for a status match http://www.qantas.com.au/fflyer/dyn/...gram/fairer-flying#changes-to-earn


User currently onlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (6 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 13112 times:

Quoting allrite (Reply 44):
What really irritates me is that Qantas are portraying the changes as simpler and fairer when it is quite obviously neither. Maybe they confused fairer with more fares.

These changes are an attempt to drive more value and profitability into the FF scheme in advance of a partial float. The sad part is, whilst the management consultants may have developed a means that makes the scheme even more profitable in the short term, it is a loyalty business and if he the punter doesn't see value they will take their loyalty elsewhere.



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User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3094 posts, RR: 20
Reply 47, posted (6 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 13099 times:

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 46):
, it is a loyalty business and if he the punter doesn't see value they will take their loyalty elsewhere.

Lets be frank, when you talk about "punter" the people who are benefiting most from being member of QFF, road warriors and business travellors, are actually going to be earning more points and status credits under the new scheme than now whereas those that are shopping for fares purely on price are going to be earning less points including less guaranteed points. So after reading all of the detail this morning I'm probably, as a Gold QFF and looking at my forward bookings, not going to be any worse off overall once these changes go through and on some flights in the later half of the year which haven't been booked yet will probably be better off.

Bottom line, if you're travelling on QF purely based on price and always go for the cheapest fares you'll earn less points. That's not necessarily a bad thing because if you are really loyal you'll pay a bit extra to get your points. If you're not, you won't and you'll earn less.


User currently onlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (6 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 13068 times:

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 47):
not going to be any worse off overall once these changes go through and on some flights in the later half of the year which haven't been booked yet will probably be better off.

Maybe, but most companies now demand that staff travel on non-flexible fares for the outbound journey at least. I managed a $3M annual travel spend for a very large IT consultancy and this proviso was non-negotiable. The points earned on these fares have declined every time.

There also appears to be added provisos for premium cabins also that I haven't investigated fully but it seems that "discount" W and J fares are also impacted slightly. I'll leave it to analysts with more time than me to crunch the numbers on these.

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 47):
That's not necessarily a bad thing because if you are really loyal you'll pay a bit extra to get your points

If anyone does this, they are a fool. There is no value in spending more to get points, do yourself a favour and spend your money on a financial advisor instead.



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User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3094 posts, RR: 20
Reply 49, posted (6 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 13012 times:

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 48):
Maybe, but most companies now demand that staff travel on non-flexible fares for the outbound journey at least

The availability of non-flexible fares depends on when you book them and how far in advance. Of course there are plentiful numbers of non-flexible fares on Jetstar that are available last minute.........

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 48):
I managed a $3M annual travel spend for a very large IT consultancy and this proviso was non-negotiable. The points earned on these fares have declined every time.

The same IT consultancy has the opportunity to double dip with Acquire points now. So while individuals may earn less travelling on cheap fares the company itself can now earn points as well. Who those points go to is a different matter.

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 48):
There also appears to be added provisos for premium cabins also that I haven't investigated fully but it seems that "discount" W and J fares are also impacted slightly

Correct. You earn more if your W and J fares are full fares vs promotional fares. Again, the more you pay the more you earn. I'm booked on business sale fares for SYD-HKG-PEK-PVG-SYD in November and will be grand-fathered in, as I understand from the fine print, but if we weren't we'd earn less due to being on Sale type fares than full fare paying business.

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 48):
If anyone does this, they are a fool. There is no value in spending more to get points, do yourself a favour and spend your money on a financial advisor instead.

A financial advisor..............you mean like Storm Financial? Or maybe CBA Financial Planning? Westpoint perhaps?

If you look at the fine print on say a MEL-SYD or a MEL-BNE and you buy the cheapest ticket possible the difference is basically the points guarantee goes down from 1000 points to 800 points. Status credits remain at 10. If you do lots of trips that could add up. If you do a few then not really. And your company account can make up the difference with Acquire points if they're enrolled in that scheme.

Besides which, when people talk about QFF profitabiltiy we know where that profitability comes from and it's not flying. The majority of points are coming from the Credit Card programs and from partners such as Woolworths which is also where QFF's profits are being made. So while flying accruals will be more difficult, the majority of casual "punters" won't feel any difference because their points accruals from Credit Cards etc will continue as before. And since they're shopping on price they're not going to notice much of a difference.

And there hasn't been any change to redemptions and redemption rates..................yet. They'd be truely stupid if they started tampering with that.


User currently onlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (6 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 12987 times:

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 49):
And there hasn't been any change to redemptions and redemption rates..................yet. They'd be truely stupid if they started tampering with that.

These will be changed at some point because logic suggests that is how FF factors in inflation. What was worth 17000 points one year has to go to 18000 the next year by definition. Some say QF points are the defacto second Australian currency and the purchasing power of any currency is affected by inflation.

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 49):
The same IT consultancy has the opportunity to double dip with Acquire points now

Yes, but realistically the value of Acquire and its pre-existing Virgin equivalent Accelerate are incredibly minor in overall terms. I cannot believe that any travel manager would consider these schemes when making travel decisions for their business.



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User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 51, posted (6 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 13007 times:

Quoting allrite (Reply 42):
New minimum is also 800 points rather than 1000. Basically, anybody not prepared to stump up the big bucks is worse off. Discount economy is now even worse value.

But Virgin Velocity has no minimum earn.

Quoting allrite (Reply 42):
Discount economy is now even worse value.

How is this supposed to help loyalty? Hope they make higher status easier to earn in compensation. Not happy right now.

The extraordinary thing is that domestic capacity is still high after the capacity war, so Qantas needs to fill the back of the bus.

It looks like another very poorly planned "saving" which will have the flow-on effect of making domestic operations less profitable.

It appears to me after all the recent events that there are now only two options to explain Qantas' recent managerial buffoonery:

EITHER
The senior management is unfit for their duties and they are inadvertently grinding the airline into dust.

OR
We are seeing an unlawful strategy by smart but unscrupulous managers to drive Qantas into bankruptcy so that they can rebrand Jetstar as Qantas.

I really can't see any other explanations for recent actions.


User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 2085 posts, RR: 4
Reply 52, posted (6 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 13006 times:

Quoting Airniugini (Reply 45):
Has anyone on here made the switch to VA? Was/ is it worth it? Fingers crossed for a status match

I believe that my most frequently flown route, SYD - Japan now sees a drop in points and status credits across all fares. I wonder if that is because East Coast Australia - Japan is a monopoly route for OneWorld - to fly with Virgin means a significant backtrack via SE Asia, so there's no point transferring loyalty. It would be interesting to crunch the numbers for other destinations vs the competition.

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 48):
Maybe, but most companies now demand that staff travel on non-flexible fares for the outbound journey at least. I managed a $3M annual travel spend for a very large IT consultancy and this proviso was non-negotiable. The points earned on these fares have declined every time.

The ouch thing for me personally is that every fare comes out of my own pocket with the exception of a couple of short flights SYD-CBR - and even these may not be permitted with my organisation's cutbacks. I've found a higher tiered status to be useful, but barely within reach. Make it that much further out of my reach and those little unsound financial justifications for paying that bit more expensive fare than a competitor become that much harder to accept.

So maybe it'll help trigger more rational behaviour, but it still hurts to be told you don't count in the eyes of others.



Applying insanity to normality
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3094 posts, RR: 20
Reply 53, posted (6 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 13004 times:

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 50):
These will be changed at some point because logic suggests that is how FF factors in inflation. What was worth 17000 points one year has to go to 18000 the next year by definition. Some say QF points are the defacto second Australian currency and the purchasing power of any currency is affected by inflation.

It will be interesting to see if it does. I'd argue that the redemption side, through the any seat awards, has a natural inflation hedge in-built because they can make the any seat rewards more expensive, and more plentiful, while keepint the classic seats as they are. That gives them the inflation hedge while still being able to advertise the "reasonableness" of their FF program.

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 50):
Yes, but realistically the value of Acquire and its pre-existing Virgin equivalent Accelerate are incredibly minor in overall terms. I cannot believe that any travel manager would consider these schemes when making travel decisions for their business.

I don't think it's a primary decision driver. But I do think that it's the cream on top of the cake once the decision on which airfare to buy is made. So price and schedule are still the most important thing and if there are Acquire points on top, fine. If not the business has the fare and schedule they want and they just have to put up with whatever award that gives them.

Quoting koruman (Reply 51):
The extraordinary thing is that domestic capacity is still high after the capacity war, so Qantas needs to fill the back of the bus.

If you look at what is happening in the market right now from the QF side they are focused on filling the planes and allowing growth to catch up with capacity. And you make it sound as if the capacity war is over. It's not because TT is still expanding at the bottom end of the market.

Quoting koruman (Reply 51):
It looks like another very poorly planned "saving" which will have the flow-on effect of making domestic operations less profitable.

Explain this logic. The vast majority of businesses, and people, make their travel decisions based on price and schedule. FF points can drive someone towards an outcome based on the price and schedule and their perception of the overall value but I hardly think this decision qualifies as a "saving" considering the high yielding pax that QF needs to be profitable are actually going to be earning more under this revised scheme.

Quoting koruman (Reply 51):
I really can't see any other explanations for recent actions.

I'm going to start referring to you as "Chicken Little" because every time there is an announcement you come out saying that the sky is falling.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25323 posts, RR: 85
Reply 54, posted (6 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 12955 times:
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Quoting Sydscott (Reply 53):
Explain this logic. The vast majority of businesses, and people, make their travel decisions based on price and schedule. FF points can drive someone towards an outcome based on the price and schedule and their perception of the overall value but I hardly think this decision qualifies as a "saving" considering the high yielding pax that QF needs to be profitable are actually going to be earning more under this revised scheme.

Personally, I curse the day that loyalty programs - frequent flier programs - were ever invented.

They did extraordinary damage to genuine (domestic) first class in the US - which used to be pretty darn good - because the front cabins became filled with upgrades and FF free-loaders rather than people who had actually paid for the service.

I vividly recall the howls of outrage from the elites when Air NZ made some changes to its program - as an affront to their sense of entitlement - but those changes sure haven't affected that airline's profitability.

They're so ingrained now that I suppose they have to exist, but I don't use 'em and I give any miles/points I collect along the way to charity.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 55, posted (6 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 12949 times:

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 53):
If you look at what is happening in the market right now from the QF side they are focused on filling the planes and allowing growth to catch up with capacity. And you make it sound as if the capacity war is over. It's not
Quoting koruman (Reply 51):
It looks like another very poorly planned "saving" which will have the flow-on effect of making domestic operations less profitable.
Quoting Sydscott (Reply 53):
Explain this logic. The vast majority of businesses, and people, make their travel decisions based on price and schedule. FF points can drive someone towards an outcome based on the price and schedule and their perception of the overall value but I hardly think this decision qualifies as a "saving" considering the high yielding pax that QF needs to be profitable are actually going to be earning more under this revised scheme.

A capacity war cannot be wound back in a moment, and Qantas management is yet to express any remorse for the war anyway.

In a capacity war you tend to have to do whatever it takes to keep loads at a manageable level. It's great if Qantas keep the corporates on board, but many corporate travellers do keep their own points, and the new 800 point minimum will certainly be noticed.

But in addition, at a time of bloated capacity it's important to keep as many discretionary self-funded passengers in discount economy as possible to at least keep revenue as high as possible by volume even if yields are disappointing.

Filling 10 extra $99 seats on the triangle is better than leaving them empty.

But many of those self-funded passengers consider both price and points. And the equation is no longer as strongly in favour of Qantas (1000 point minimum falling to 800) as it was before.


User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3094 posts, RR: 20
Reply 56, posted (6 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 12949 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 54):
I vividly recall the howls of outrage from the elites when Air NZ made some changes to its program - as an affront to their sense of entitlement - but those changes sure haven't affected that airline's profitability.

Yeah there is always controversy when changes happen. But the funny thing about this is the pax, of businesses, that pay for the high yielding fares that QF needs to survive are actually going to be earning more under this revised scheme. So, if anything, this could assist QF deal with the yield and revenue problem that it has by encouraging people to buy a slightly more expensive fare or by further limiting the availability of cheap fares on QF mainline services. (And by shunting those pax off to Jetstar where you can elect to buy a bundle to earn FF points)


User currently onlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 57, posted (6 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 12917 times:

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 56):
So, if anything, this could assist QF deal with the yield and revenue problem that it has by encouraging people to buy a slightly more expensive fare

Trust me, no employer is going to pay any more than they have to just so their employees can get more points.

Most employers, except those on exclusive contracts where prices are locked anyway, now operate on a Best Fare on Day approach. This means they look at VA and QF and whoever offers the best fare at the time needed will get the business. Often Qantas does quite well in these comparisons provided full flexible or J class isn't required.



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User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 2085 posts, RR: 4
Reply 58, posted (6 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 12897 times:

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 57):
Trust me, no employer is going to pay any more than they have to just so their employees can get more points.

I suppose that they may sign up for corporate programs as an incentive in lieu of other benefits. I would modify your statement to read that no employer's finance/accounting department will have a policy allowing the upgrading of fares by employees in order to get more points. However, that does not mean that no employee (especially in senior management) will purchase a more expensive fare in order to get more points because they, er, need more flexibility or better times. Or that's the justification entered into the third-party corporate travel agent computer system when said employee (or their PA) books their own flight.



Applying insanity to normality
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3094 posts, RR: 20
Reply 59, posted (6 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 12882 times:

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 57):
Most employers, except those on exclusive contracts where prices are locked anyway, now operate on a Best Fare on Day approach. This means they look at VA and QF and whoever offers the best fare at the time needed will get the business. Often Qantas does quite well in these comparisons provided full flexible or J class isn't required.

Exactly so, in the end, businesses will still fly with QF because it's about schedule and fare. If the employee gets less points out of it that's just tough luck for them.

So bottomline there will likely be no change for QF out of this in revenue terms but slightly less in cost terms in the discount fare categories. So that should help average yield.


Quoting tullamarine (Reply 57):
Trust me, no employer is going to pay any more than they have to just so their employees can get more points.

Actually I know quite a few businesses who are willing to pay for more flexible fares so there employee's aren't stuck somewhere for hours if things go better, or they can stay later if things go worse. But if it's purely the bast fare approach a particular employer is implementing because they only care about maximising their bang for the travel dollar then they're still going to pick QF if they have the best fare. So, at the end of the day, QF still gets its revenue but with a slightly lower cost of getting it.

Quoting koruman (Reply 55):
A capacity war cannot be wound back in a moment, and Qantas management is yet to express any remorse for the war anyway.

Nor has Virgin or Tiger. What's your point?

Quoting koruman (Reply 55):
In a capacity war you tend to have to do whatever it takes to keep loads at a manageable level

Correct. Except for what's happened over the last year or so where capacity growth from both has exceeded market growth. Then load factors go down.

Quoting koruman (Reply 55):
It's great if Qantas keep the corporates on board, but many corporate travellers do keep their own points, and the new 800 point minimum will certainly be noticed.

As Tullamarine has said, and as others have said prior, the Corporates are travelling within the bounds of Corporate contracts and most businesses who have an unaligned travel spend are going to be shopping on fare and schedule grounds, not on loyalty grounds. So the vast bulk of revenue won't necessarily be affected by these changes. But if you're a high level corporate doing MEL-SYD or BNE-SYD often and you lose some points at the lower fare classes, is this enough for you to make the decision to go elsewhere? Especially when Virgin doesn't have a minimum guarantee? I doubt it.

Quoting koruman (Reply 55):
But in addition, at a time of bloated capacity it's important to keep as many discretionary self-funded passengers in discount economy as possible to at least keep revenue as high as possible by volume even if yields are disappointing.

Actually it's more important to match that volume with an appropriate cost base which is why the vast bulk of the capacity ramp up has been on Jetstar and not on Qantas. With the 763's going and not being replaced along with the moves we have seen to deploy 717's to Canberra and Tasmania we are seeing more evidence of mainline capacity adjustments while JQ is being held relatively flat. That will be good for yields medium term.

Quoting koruman (Reply 55):
But many of those self-funded passengers consider both price and points. And the equation is no longer as strongly in favour of Qantas (1000 point minimum falling to 800) as it was before.

I'd argue the self funded pax look for fares and flights in the same order as corporates. That is to say it's fare and schedule first followed by FF loyalty. The difference is that the self funded pax have the ability to pay whatever price point they deem represents the best overall value for them as opposed to the corporates who can have a lowest cost mentality. That overall value proposition includes the ability to earn FF points. If you're flying SYD-MEL a couple of times a year self funded then earning 200 points less isn't going to make that much of a difference to your overall points balance depending on what you do in terms of linking credit cards etc to your account.

Besides which, if you're flying SYD-MEL/BNE/OOL etc you will still earn more QF points under the 800 min than you will on Virgin depending on the price point you want to pay at Virgin.


User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2987 posts, RR: 2
Reply 60, posted (6 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 12883 times:

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 47):
Yeah there is always controversy when changes happen. But the funny thing about this is the pax, of businesses, that pay for the high yielding fares that QF needs to survive are actually going to be earning more under this revised scheme.

The problem is that QF already has this part of the market sewn up -- the small increases at the top end of the scale are only there to disguise the cuts at the bottom (the overalls savings will still be significant, in the billions of points per year), and to give them an excuse to label this as an exercise in "fairness".

QF is an airline for corporate travellers, yes, but they can't survive in the current industry without the money that the bottom end of the market brings in to help pay the bills. While I'm sure these changes won't negatively impact on their bottom line in the short term, it will heavily impact on the brand and perception of value for less frequent flyers (not the once in a blue moon variety, the couple of times a year variety) which is already a major hurdle for them.


User currently onlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 61, posted (6 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 12877 times:

Quoting allrite (Reply 58):
However, that does not mean that no employee (especially in senior management) will purchase a more expensive fare in order to get more points because they, er, need more flexibility or better times. Or that's the justification entered into the third-party corporate travel agent computer system when said employee (or their PA) books their own flight.

Of course, that option is available when a company's systems allow someone senior enough to skirt around the controls....been there, done that with managers etc when the quarterly reports come in from the corporate agent.



717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,A310,320,321,332,333,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,S
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3094 posts, RR: 20
Reply 62, posted (6 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 12916 times:

In other news, Jetstar will be delpoying the 788 onto MEL - BKK twice a week from starting from May 20. (Apparently on the Tuesday and Thursday services initially)

So that takes JQ's 788 services to:

MEL-DPS
MEL-HKT
MEL-BKK
SYD-DPS
SYD-HKT
BNE-DPS


User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5624 posts, RR: 5
Reply 63, posted (6 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 12900 times:

It turns out that Allrite saying yesterday "let's talk about Qantas" was prescient!

Rather than re-write the same thing, I'm just going to copy/paste what I wrote in the other thread:


Last night when I received the email notifying me of these changes I was practically incandescent.

However, after sleeping on it and coming back to it, I can see that the changes relatively minor, and - to be honest - fair.

I don't at all dispute that this is a "fairer" system, but I am insulted by the use of the term "fairer, simpler". The new system is not at all simpler. Trying to de-code the new fare chart is a huge PITA. Not only is it not formatted in a logical manner (why not put all routes from East Coast Australia, then all from "North West Australia", then all from Dubai etc rather than the current hodge-podge which means you have to hunt for a route), it also has some glaring omissions. I take it that we are supposed to guess how many points and status credits will be earned flying SYD-JNB? (And I'm sure that the good burghers of Perth were delighted to wake up this morning to discover that they have moved overnight to "North West Australia").

Once you cut through this c**p, however, the changes are minimal. For most routes I looked at, when flying QF metal or a QF codeshare, the status credits are unchanged, and even increased. It was a major gripe of mine that only Y was not classified as "Discount Economy" under the old system. There is now a new tier between O, Q, N and Y, which means that if you aren't flying on the absolute cheapest economy fairs, you do get more points and status credits than those flying on sale fairs. That's a good move IMHO, as restricting all fares that cost less than $4000 to "Discount Economy" was incredibly stingy. For that I applaud this change.

The other thing is the new 800 mile minimum. This is a bit of kick in the guts, but it means that QF still have the most generous minimum earn of any frequent flyer program that I'm aware of. Most programs are 500 miles (or not at all). The key thing is that status credits on short flights in discount economy is still 10, rather than 5 on some partner flights, so I doubt anyone will really care other than maybe grumble a bit.

To everyone saying "time to switch to Velocity", pause for a moment and think. Velocity uses the $ method, like DL is moving to. Therefore for an average SYD-MEL fare, say $150, you earn 750 points, so QF is still more generous. The key thing about Velocity, though, is status credit earn. Admittedly Velocity has lower thresholds for status, but the program is less generous for earning status credits. Compare the Velocity status earn chart to even the new QF one, and QF comes out on top on the majority of sectors.

The big loser in this change, of course, are those people who fly partner flights. The biggest losers IMHO are BA and CX. CX because of everyone who uses them to get to HK, PRC and East Asia over the Qantas option, and BA for those who book the never-ending stream of $1800 fares that they're dumping into the market. By offering half the number of status credits on discount fares than on QF metal, this is all about driving people onto QF. I don't blame them for that. However, IMHO QF should at least expand the "Economy" bracket to beyond just Y if they are going to do this. At least B and H, IMHO, should earn the equivalent as QF's lowest status credits otherwise this is really, really unpalatable.

Overall, I'm not ecstatic about the changes, but if you fly QF then in most cases it isn't a huge issue. The key point though is that of the program "enhancements" that various airlines have announced over the past year or so, this is the least bad. Thank God they didn't go all Status Dollar on us!!!



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently onlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 64, posted (6 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 12904 times:

One of the biggesat changes in QF's announcement is the devaluation of points and status credits earned when flying on Oneworld "partner" airlines. I can't blame Qantas in this regards. Of course they want to direct pax onto their own services rather than someone else. This is the whole fatal flaw in the global alliances; self interest will always win. No wonder John Borghetti has said he is not interested in Star or Skyteam and will pursue bilaterals on a one-by-one basis. Oneworld isn't much value to Qantas anymore given its bilateral alliances with EK and AA even though AA is also a Oneworld member.

The downgrading of partner points worsens QF's position in Asia however....who would have thought that possible?? Already they run minimal services under their own metal and pax in places like PER and ADL used CX or MH codeshares but still earned status and points. This has now been reduced hugely. Frequent flyers into Asia will now be stupid not to use another loyalty scheme for these services.

CX and QF have a notoriously fractious relationship and yesterday probably made it worse. CX already has an alliance with NZ. I would be amazed if it doesn't add a similar alliance with VA on Australia-Hong Kong services very soon. Such an alliance is unlikely to raise competition issues and SQ will tolerate it just as they accepted NZ's partnership probably on the "my enemy's enemy is my friend" rule.



717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,A310,320,321,332,333,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,S
User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5624 posts, RR: 5
Reply 65, posted (6 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 12882 times:

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 64):
The downgrading of partner points worsens QF's position in Asia however....who would have thought that possible??

That's why I raised this point:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 63):
By offering half the number of status credits on discount fares than on QF metal, this is all about driving people onto QF. I don't blame them for that. However, IMHO QF should at least expand the "Economy" bracket to beyond just Y if they are going to do this

IIRC, at the moment only Y is classed as "Economy" on partner metal, everything else is "Discount Economy". Discount Economy is now 50% less status credits on partner flights. They haven't released the earning matricies for individual partner carriers, but if they went for a common sense system that saw some fares move from Discount Economy to Economy, then the backlash might be slightly minor. Taking a look at the current CX fare chart, maybe YBHK could be "Economy" and LMV "Discount Economy". Unfortunately, though, I doubt they'll do this, and they can probably kiss goodbye to their remaining FFs in PER and ADL  



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3094 posts, RR: 20
Reply 66, posted (6 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 12825 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 65):
Unfortunately, though, I doubt they'll do this, and they can probably kiss goodbye to their remaining FFs in PER and ADL

And this is the hole in the network which can only grow larger. It's interesting, especially in Perth, that the airline which dominates domestically can only manage a small presence, via JQ and 3K out of PER and on JQ out of ADL. QF have, quite literally, given up on competing for International traffic out of those cities.

But I agree with your analysis.

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 64):
CX and QF have a notoriously fractious relationship and yesterday probably made it worse. CX already has an alliance with NZ. I would be amazed if it doesn't add a similar alliance with VA on Australia-Hong Kong services very soon. Such an alliance is unlikely to raise competition issues and SQ will tolerate it just as they accepted NZ's partnership probably on the "my enemy's enemy is my friend" rule.

I don't think anything could make the CX-QF relationship worse. However it will be very, very interesting to see what CX does because I would say a significant portion of CX's customer base down here also flies QF domestically. Strategically I'd have thought CX is better off staying exactly where they are rather than trying to get into bed with Virgin and competing for traffic with SQ.


User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 2085 posts, RR: 4
Reply 67, posted (6 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 12810 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 65):
Taking a look at the current CX fare chart, maybe YBHK could be "Economy" and LMV "Discount Economy". Unfortunately, though, I doubt they'll do this, and they can probably kiss goodbye to their remaining FFs in PER and ADL

I'm rather confused by the different booking classes, but are there some CX discount economy classes that earn 0 QFF points? I know back in 2007 we didn't earn on our flights. Same for MH?



Applying insanity to normality
User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5624 posts, RR: 5
Reply 68, posted (6 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 12765 times:

Quoting allrite (Reply 67):
are there some CX discount economy classes that earn 0 QFF points?
Quoting allrite (Reply 67):
Same for MH?

Only YBHKLMV earn on both CX and MH for QFFs. As a point of comparison, for QF domestic flights those inventory buckets are fall under FlexiSaver and Flexi.

The equivalent of Red e-Deal and Sale (GNOQS) doesn't earn on either carrier.

It does vary slightly by carrier*, but for Oneworld carriers OQNS are generally the lowest fare classes (in ascending order).

It's for this reason that I often rely on either Expedia or Flight Centre, as Expedia list which booking class you will be booked in and a travel agent will tell you if you ask. Similarly, I often call request to be ticketed in a particular fare class to make sure that I earn status credits.

*One notable carrier is AY, which use ARW for very lowest economy fares (generally "sale" fares). R and W are Premium Economy and A First for most carriers, but as AY don't have those cabins they've usurped them for a [lower] purpose!



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5624 posts, RR: 5
Reply 69, posted (6 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 12761 times:

OK, so I'll run a quick tutorial to getting around restrictions on partner airlines with QFF. It's relatively easy to beat the system, so long as you are prepared to be a bit flexible on price. This obviously applies on the basis of the old system rules, as we don't know what the earning charts will look like under the new system yet.

(all copyright: 2014, Expedia Inc)

On the Qantas website they provide a relatively straight forward list of the earn rates for every carrier, including the number of points you will earn.

http://www.qantas.com.au/fflyer/dyn/partners/airline

Using this as a guide, we see that this itinerary will not earn QFFF points or status credits:



S is not an "eligible booking class" on MH for QFF.

We will, however, earn points on this itinerary as O is included for BA:



This itinerary would earn 0.25 earn and status credits as Discount Economy. Under the old system it would therefore earn 5,150 points and 140 status credits under the old system. Presuming that O is still included for BA (and I wouldn't fall over with shock if it isn't after these "enhancements") it would earn 70 status credits.

Finally, we'll look at a QF example:



Under the old system this would earn 130 status credits and 21,474 points (don't forget SYD-LHR is measured as one flight under the old system and therefore only earns 60 status credits).

Under the new system it will earn 140 status credits as O and N are both classed as "Discount Economy". People who fly QF1/2 and QF9/10 in both directions definitely benefit under this new system as they earn 20 more status credits on a round-trip basis even on the lowest fare classes. This will earn 12,400 points.

What I will be very interested to see is what price point S and K will be offered in future. In the past they often come up as the booking class for QF to Europe when "Sale" inventory isn't available. Under the new system they will earn 190 status credits as opposed to 140 at the moment. I wouldn't be surprised if they suddenly became harder to find  



On that note, this is a real bonus for my mother. She goes to Manchester on business once a quarter, and has to fly economy. Her client does, however, allow her (well, me ) some latitude in booking her preferred booking class. When she was a United 1K she flew SQ, and was allowed to book B, E, M, H, W, U, L, K as the cheaper fare classes don't earn points or status for MileagePlus (UA's FF program). Similarly, she'll now be able to book up to K, M, L, S, G and earn more than 150% of the status credits she currently does.

It will be intriguing to see how this boils down for her in HK/PRC as she mixes up between QF and CX, and the reason she flies CX is because of their overnight out of BNE. Presuming she is willing to forgo that convenience, we can apply the same to QF and earn 80 status credits over the current 60. Of course CX will become 30 as opposed to 60.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 2085 posts, RR: 4
Reply 70, posted (6 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 12704 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 69):
OK, so I'll run a quick tutorial to getting around restrictions on partner airlines with QFF. It's relatively easy to beat the system, so long as you are prepared to be a bit flexible on price. This obviously applies on the basis of the old system rules, as we don't know what the earning charts will look like under the new system yet.

Thanks, that's excellent!



Applying insanity to normality
User currently offlinepommy80 From UK - England, joined Jul 2009, 16 posts, RR: 0
Reply 71, posted (6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 12570 times:

United B777-200 services have started. N225UA doing the honors operating UA863, due in tomorrow.

User currently offline777Jet From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 1873 posts, RR: 4
Reply 72, posted (6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 12535 times:

Quoting pommy80 (Reply 71):
United B777-200 services have started. N225UA doing the honors operating UA863, due in tomorrow.

It will certainly be the end of an era with no more UAL 747 service to Sydney. At least the 777 offers all pax personal entertainment - the long flight in coach on the 744 got a bit boring at times. I'm glad I made it to SYD last weekend to see one of the last UA 744 flights - it was operated by N178UA.

BTW, N225UA was also the first UA 777 to visit SYD. It came in 2007 for APEC.

[Edited 2014-03-28 01:41:57]


DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90,717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788,306,320,321,332/3,346,388
User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 2085 posts, RR: 4
Reply 73, posted (6 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12426 times:

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 72):
It will certainly be the end of an era with no more UAL 747 service to Sydney.

So it's down to Qantas and Thai now with the 747s into SYD? Sad. There was something evocative, like an old liner, a hint of gunmetal grey and working port, about the UA 747s (and MH 747s) at gates 51 and 55.



[Edited 2014-03-28 03:10:00]


Applying insanity to normality
User currently onlinebunumuring From Australia, joined Jan 2014, 987 posts, RR: 2
Reply 74, posted (6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 12344 times:
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Hi all,
My best mate and I reminisced just a few weeks ago about the decimation of 747 services to SYD. We talked about the good old days of Lufthansa, KLM, Olympic, Alitalia and UTA being the euro-carriers and the Asian stalwarts who have 'downgraded' to fleets of Airbuses and 777s. Fortunately two of the most elegant liveries to grace the 747, in my humble opinion, were amongst the last three operators of passenger 747s into Sydney - Thai (stunning) and United ( the last tulip colourscheme with gradations of blue, not the awful Continental-based scheme). Even the QF colourscheme looked great of the 747. Arguably, all three schemes looked better on the 747 compared to the A380 for Thai and Qantas, and 777 for United.
I had better get mY act together and book a 747-400ER flight... Just for the logbook! I guess though with QF and their shrinking fleet, the 747-400ER could be around for many many years...
Keep smiling,
Bunumuring.



I just wanna live while I'm alive!
User currently offline777Jet From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 1873 posts, RR: 4
Reply 75, posted (6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 12337 times:

I'm thinking about booking a QF8 BNE-SYD leg just to add the 744ER to the log book.

Regarding Thai, their livery is one of the best ever. The Thai 744 looks stunning! However, I hate flying in the back of them; I really wish they would return their A346 to SYD. The 346 does not have the retro-fitted under the seat IFE box that the 744 has. Anyway, it will only be a matter of time before Thai follow the others and leave QF as the only 744 pax operator into SYD. I do often see MH with a cargo 744 and I think Cathay with a cargo 748 into SYD.



DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90,717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788,306,320,321,332/3,346,388
User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2987 posts, RR: 2
Reply 76, posted (6 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 12268 times:

Quoting allrite (Reply 73):
So it's down to Qantas and Thai now with the 747s into SYD? Sad. There was something evocative, like an old liner, a hint of gunmetal grey and working port, about the UA 747s (and MH 747s) at gates 51 and 55.

This depresses me   

Maybe we could convince QF to put a 744 on permanent display somewhere, like the AF Concorde at CDG -- the final retirement of their 747 fleet is going to be a very sad day.


User currently onlinebunumuring From Australia, joined Jan 2014, 987 posts, RR: 2
Reply 77, posted (6 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 12293 times:
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Hey 777Jet,
There's an idea! An Anetters' excursion! Fly a 747-400ER BNE-SYD group booking! What fun we would all have!
...and don't forget the SIA Cargo 747 flights to add to your list of freighters into Sydney.
I agree about the Thai livery too. I'm sad to say however, that rumors abound of Thai replacing the 747 service with A340-600s as part of the Qantas-style drawdown of their fleet.
Cheers,
Bunumuring.



I just wanna live while I'm alive!
User currently offline777Jet From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 1873 posts, RR: 4
Reply 78, posted (6 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 12220 times:

That would be a great idea! I think it is an early flight so I would probably try to catch one last ride on a QF 767 up to BNE from SYD the previous evening as the 767s are on the way out. Or maybe a JQ 332 Intl tag on flight from SYD to OOL the previous day. However, I don't trust QF when it comes down to equipment changes and I would feel sad if a non ER 744 operated QF8 that day or even worse if it was not even a 747 at all. I have been hit hard by QF equipment changes in the past so I have no faith in getting to fly on the type I book unless it is a 737 so any change could not be worse...


DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90,717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788,306,320,321,332/3,346,388
User currently offlineZuluAlpha From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 406 posts, RR: 0
Reply 79, posted (6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 12188 times:

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 75):
I'm thinking about booking a QF8 BNE-SYD leg just to add the 744ER to the log book.

With the weather warming up slowly in the USA be prepared for a possible delay / cancelation of the QF8 BNE SYD sector



CRJ CR7 D10 DHT DH8 DH2 DH3 DH4 EMB ER3 E90 F28 J32 M80 SH6 320 332 333 380 717 732 733 734 738 743 744 752 762 763 772
User currently onlinebunumuring From Australia, joined Jan 2014, 987 posts, RR: 2
Reply 80, posted (6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 12183 times:
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Quoting 777Jet (Reply 78):
That would be a great idea! I think it is an early flight so I would probably try to catch one last ride on a QF 767 up to BNE from SYD the previous evening as the 767s are on the way out

Hi mate,
I'm keen. I'm willing. I'm able. Let's do it!
Anyone else willing?
Cheers,
Bunumuring.



I just wanna live while I'm alive!
User currently offline777Jet From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 1873 posts, RR: 4
Reply 81, posted (6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 12187 times:

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 79):
Quoting bunumuring (Reply 80):
Hi mate,
I'm keen. I'm willing. I'm able. Let's do it!
Anyone else willing?
Cheers,
Bunumuring.

Lets check back in here in a while to see if anybody else is interested. After all, there were only 6 747-400ER made as only QF ordered them so I consider it to be a rare bird! We will also need to consider the info below and do some research into patterns with aircraft type / changes on this route and pick the right day and time of the year to get a 744 ER  
Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 79):

With the weather warming up slowly in the USA be prepared for a possible delay / cancelation of the QF8 BNE SYD sector

Thank you for that info.



DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90,717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788,306,320,321,332/3,346,388
User currently offlineVHVXB From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 5525 posts, RR: 18
Reply 82, posted (6 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 11989 times:

Today was the start of UA's 777 service into Sydney.

Ship 2025 operated UA863, departing SFO on Thursday evening and arriving into Sydney this morning


User currently offline777Jet From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 1873 posts, RR: 4
Reply 83, posted (6 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 11946 times:

Quoting pommy80 (Reply 71):
United B777-200 services have started. N225UA doing the honors operating UA863, due in tomorrow.

Reply 71 beat you to it! I will miss hearing the UAL 744 fly over my place when it takes off on 34L but it will be interesting to see a UAL 772.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 72):
BTW, N225UA was also the first UA 777 to visit SYD. It came in 2007 for APEC.



DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90,717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788,306,320,321,332/3,346,388
User currently offline747m8te From Australia, joined Aug 2008, 441 posts, RR: 0
Reply 84, posted (6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 11907 times:

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 78):
I don't trust QF when it comes down to equipment changes and I would feel sad if a non ER 744 operated QF8 that day or even worse if it was not even a 747 at all.

Only the 747-400ERs can operate QF8 DFW-BNE-SYD....so there won't be an equipement swap.

There was one rare occasion that a regular 744 was on the route but the had pre organised it with a stop in LAX, but this was a one off only.

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 79):
With the weather warming up slowly in the USA be prepared for a possible delay / cancelation of the QF8 BNE SYD sector

I've done the QF8 several times both from DFW-BNE, or domestically BNE-SYD, year round, and I have never been disrupted on these services. QF have the loadings pretty much worked out these days so chance of delay or diversion are at a minimum unlike it was initially.

I love taking QF8 to SYD on the domestic leg, gotta love the ride on the 747, plus it isn't the inconvenience travelling through the international terminal some people make it out to be, as you get the Domestic D sticker on boarding pass so you pass through the express priority lanes at every point, and then just walk through quarrantine as they don't check your items because you haven't come from overseas.

Oh and if you are a Qantas club member (or FF Gold or above) or travelling in Business class, you can use the lounge at BNE international and have alcoholic beverages first thing in the morning (the international lounges don't have the 12 noon time restrictions)...So I always have a champagne breakfast before I depart on my 747   ...travel in style  



Flown on:DHC8Q200,DHC8Q400,EMB145,E170,E190,A320,A332,A333,A343,A380,MD80,B733,B734,B737,B738,B743,B744,B744ER,B762,B763
User currently offline777Jet From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 1873 posts, RR: 4
Reply 85, posted (6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 11851 times:

Quoting 747m8te (Reply 84):

Sounds good! Thanks for that info... I just thought that the ER was not guaranteed on the domestic BNE-SYD leg... I have a bit more confidence now to book it!

[Edited 2014-03-28 20:47:55]


DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90,717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788,306,320,321,332/3,346,388
User currently onlinebunumuring From Australia, joined Jan 2014, 987 posts, RR: 2
Reply 86, posted (6 months 6 days ago) and read 11773 times:
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Hi all,
Does anybody have any updated information on the plans of Qatar and Turkish starting Sydney flights? I posted about the latter in a Turkish thread a few months ago and the simple answer was that Turkish still wants to start Sydney but nothing definite has been heard.
Thanks,
Bunumuring.



I just wanna live while I'm alive!
User currently offlinesmi0006 From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 1535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 87, posted (6 months 6 days ago) and read 11773 times:

Qatar can't start Sydney as their bilateral is maxed out. Perth was chosen due to slot times into Sydney.

AusBT has some nice photos of the new Qantas Hong Kong lounge. Looks impressive to me, as does the Singapore one. Once the new lounge in LAX is opened QF will have a competitive lounge network in their key international ports. Is there any other major ports in need of a refurb? NRT?

How do their offering for key international Australian ports compare, outside of the F lounges in Syd and Mel


User currently onlinebunumuring From Australia, joined Jan 2014, 987 posts, RR: 2
Reply 88, posted (6 months 6 days ago) and read 11759 times:
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Wow!
I can answer my own question about Turkish... Only 12 minutes later!
Found a new thread in the forum that started after I started my latest browsing session. It was on Turkish Airlines expansion plans. In it, someone had posted a screen cap of an investors day briefing from December 2013 on near to mid term expansion plans. 201 current destination cities were listed and another thirty odd cities highlighted for expansion. No Australian city was listed. Sydney, I guess, still remains a 2015ish possibility...
Now, news about Qatar and Sydney?
Cheers,
Bunumuring.



I just wanna live while I'm alive!
User currently offlinea345b727 From Australia, joined Jan 2014, 10 posts, RR: 0
Reply 89, posted (6 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 11684 times:

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 79):
With the weather warming up slowly in the USA be prepared for a possible delay / cancelation of the QF8 BNE SYD sector

Silly question maybe, but why would this be the case?


User currently offlinepackersfan From Australia, joined Oct 2011, 46 posts, RR: 0
Reply 90, posted (6 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 11683 times:

Quoting 747m8te (Reply 84):
Oh and if you are a Qantas club member (or FF Gold or above) or travelling in Business class, you can use the lounge at BNE international and have alcoholic beverages first thing in the morning (the international lounges don't have the 12 noon time restrictions)...So I always have a champagne breakfast before I depart on my 747 ...travel in style

Ditto here! Great minds think alike or fools never differ. Take your pick.


User currently offlineVA82 From Australia, joined Sep 2013, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 91, posted (6 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11664 times:

Was having a bit of a trawl through news stuff and stumbled upon this comment:

"Most, if not all, Tiger Air pilots, are trained to a different standard of landings, the 'softest' of any airline in the world.
Basically, but keeping in mind I'm not a pilot, When the plane is about 50 feet above the runway, they add an extra flare (nose up) and this avoids the fairly common experience of 'like dropping a galvanised bucket full of stones from the roof'', wonder why other airlines can't (maybe don't care) do this ?"

http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/9875976/Flight-test-Tiger-Air

Sounds like complete bs to me...but does anyone have some enlightening information?


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 92, posted (6 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11631 times:

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 88):
Now, news about Qatar and Sydney?

Don't be expecting any news on this.

The CEO of QR has said everything from the Sydney market is saturated as it is to the airline will not operate into SYD is a 24 hour airport.

It is likely that MEL will be its east coast port and PER for the west coast for some time to come.

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 88):
No Australian city was listed. Sydney, I guess, still remains a 2015ish possibility...

TK is said to have decided to put Australia on the back burner. It was stated in a recent interview from memory and discussed in one of the threads on here.

It will instead just focus on codeshares into Australia.


User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5624 posts, RR: 5
Reply 93, posted (6 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 11459 times:

Quoting allrite (Reply 70):
Thanks, that's excellent!

I completely forgot to show you how to access this information through the respective airline websites.

CX is really user friendly, and displays this clearly in the booking process like Expedia:



This itinerary wouldn't earn because S is excluded.

The same itinerary for $160 more, however, would:



LAN is equally user friendly:



BA is pretty good as well. When you come to this screen showing your flight options...



...click on the flight number and this handy box pops up:




Now for the fun part  

MH and AA aren't as user friendly and you actually have to hunt for the information, and you probably wouldn't realise that you've found it when you have.

On MH you will get a screen looking like this:



Click on "View Fare Rules" in the top right corner, and this box pops up:



By this point that might be ineligible, but it says "BNE-KUL (NLLT35AU)". NLLT35AU is the fare basis, and - crucially - the first letter of the fare basis is the booking class. Therefore this itinerary will be ticketed in N, and therefore not earn QFF points/status credits.

AA is the same, if booking using the Australian website*

From this screen...



...click on "Fare Basis", and this screen pops up:



The fare basis is ND21ERM1. Therefore the booking class is (coincidentally) N again, and this time will earn on AA.

*I specify the Australian website as if you set your location as USA then the booking window is a totally different design (i.e. they actually put some effort into it rather than use native Amadeus) and the specific booking class letter is very prominently provided, but you can then only use a US credit card, so I assumed that was not relevant to 99% of people reading AusAv.

Unfortunately I wasn't able to work out JAL's website, but I hope this is helpful nonetheless  

Looking back now, I really appreciate how frustrating this most be for the vast majority of passengers. I check all of this information as a matter of habit, but I definitely realise that most people wouldn't have the first clue what ND21ERM1 meant even if they happened to stumble into it.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineqf2220 From Australia, joined Aug 2013, 518 posts, RR: 0
Reply 94, posted (6 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 11279 times:

Quoting a345b727 (Reply 89):

DFW can get pretty hot and humid in summer and there are performance reductions at takeoff due to these. Though the real issue for QF8 is the winds and I think we have moved out of the traditionally windy season that results in QF8 diverts to AKL or NAN.


User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 2085 posts, RR: 4
Reply 95, posted (6 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11242 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 93):
I completely forgot to show you how to access this information through the respective airline websites.

Thanks for the effort you've put into this. Very useful!

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 93):
This itinerary wouldn't earn because S is excluded.

The same itinerary for $160 more, however, would:

And in the scheme of things that may feel like a small price to pay for points - until you multiply it by three (or more depending on the size of your family). Then it can be a week's accommodation (well, not in Hong Kong or Sydney, but you get my point).



Applying insanity to normality
User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5624 posts, RR: 5
Reply 96, posted (6 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 11182 times:

Quoting allrite (Reply 95):
in the scheme of things that may feel like a small price to pay for points

But it really isn't a small price to pay.

Under the old rules (which is all I've got to go off) then you're paying $160 for 4581mi (50% earn) ... which have a "value" of about $50. Of course calculating the value of FF points is all but impossible, but I've heard others equate 9000 points to $100, and through my own back-of-a-napkin calculations I think that's a good ballpark figure.

Which comes to the point that I have recently to terms with recently: from the customer's perspective QFF is a TERRIBLE loyalty program. It pains me to say it, but Flybuys is now infinitely better if you want to measure $ in, $ out. It's why I've just gotten a Flybuys credit card and closed down my old one linked to QFF. I will be much better off on the long run for doing so.

Of course this is not to say that QFF isn't the most admired loyalty program in the country, and industry insiders breathlessly mention it in the same sentence as Tesco Clubcard. The value of the data locked up in QFF is immeasurable, and it is a money spinning machine for its partners such as Woolworths and Optus. It truly is the de facto second national currency.

That does not, however, mean that it delivers value to consumers in terms of rewards.

The one area where QFF is absolutely invaluable is status, and at the end of the day I only care about status credits rather than miles. It's those status credits that keep me coming back, not the points. But I agree that my priorities might shift when I have to start considering more than one person in travel planning.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 2085 posts, RR: 4
Reply 97, posted (6 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 11062 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 96):
The one area where QFF is absolutely invaluable is status, and at the end of the day I only care about status credits rather than miles. It's those status credits that keep me coming back, not the points. But I agree that my priorities might shift when I have to start considering more than one person in travel planning.

I feel like I've got reasonable value out of QFF in the past with redemptions for flights, although the level of surcharges now means that the value can be marginal. Points earned is not really a factor in decision making now - status is more of a factor.

Status is definitely nice, though calculating its value can be difficult. In my case the value of Silver status can be up to $150 for a return international flight with Qantas as this is the cost of international seat selection for a family of three - very important if you like to take photos out of the window!  

In the end, for someone who isn't an "air warrior", the main benefit of QFF has been in the odd opportunity to experience the classes and lounges that I read about in other people's trip reports. YMMV!  



Applying insanity to normality
User currently offline777Jet From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 1873 posts, RR: 4
Reply 98, posted (6 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 11000 times:

Quoting qf2220 (Reply 94):
Quoting a345b727 (Reply 89):

DFW can get pretty hot and humid in summer and there are performance reductions at takeoff due to these. Though the real issue for QF8 is the winds and I think we have moved out of the traditionally windy season that results in QF8 diverts to AKL or NAN.

That is what I would have suspected. Does it also burn more fuel in hotter conditions as well, especially while getting off the ground? I suspect every drop of fuel on a flight like this is vital when they are already pushing the plane to its limits. I read somewhere that it pretty much gets towed to the runway in DFW to save every last drop of fuel!

BTW a few days ago, according to FlightAware, QF8 diverted to La Tontouta Int'l Airport (Noumea). Was this for fuel? It then flew for just 43 mins to get to BNE...??? That must be wrong, I thought it would be more like 1:43? At least that is not as far out of the way as AKL...

[Edited 2014-03-29 16:25:16]


DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90,717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788,306,320,321,332/3,346,388
User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5624 posts, RR: 5
Reply 99, posted (6 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10972 times:

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 98):
Does it also burn more fuel in hotter conditions as well, especially while getting off the ground?

Only in as much as it requires a longer take-off role.

To put this in simple terms, in hot air the amount of lift is reduced. Unless you have an unlimited runway, this means that you have to be lighter on take-off in order to get off the ground. Even with masses of pavement in front of you, IIRC there are still questions about wheel speed but I admit to knowing nothing about that.

Obviously you can't predict the conditions on any given day, but this will be the third summer that QF have operated QF8 (doesn't time fly?!?) and they now have the performance data down to a fine art. It was noticeable that there were fewer diversions over the past Northern Winter than the one before.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offline777Jet From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 1873 posts, RR: 4
Reply 100, posted (6 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10925 times:

If anybody can make it to SYD today to catch a view of the UA 744 for the last time I'd like to know if there are more spotters there than usual today for this special occasion?

Also, if anybody happens to listen to UA870 depart on Live ATC or whatever website I'd like to know if ATC said anything different or special - like gave the UA 744 a farewell message?

Thanks a lot!



DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90,717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788,306,320,321,332/3,346,388
User currently offlineLandSweetLand From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 101, posted (6 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 10796 times:

Do small aircraft commonly fly from Melbourne out over the ocean west of Tasmania?
I just pulled up FR24 and noticed a gulf stream doing just that
http://www.flightradar24.com/GLF5/3003593


edit: and it went out of range at ~03:11UTC

[Edited 2014-03-29 20:16:45]

User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 102, posted (6 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 10822 times:

^^ Interesting.

I would have thought the only plane that would have gone out of MEL in that direction would have been the A319 operated by the Australian govts Antarctic division.

Certainly an interesting heading.


User currently offlineqantas834300 From Australia, joined Mar 2010, 10 posts, RR: 0
Reply 103, posted (6 months 5 days ago) and read 10701 times:

Regards the A/C x Melbourne, " Gulfstream 5", there is a search and rescue operation ongoing from a fishing vessel some 3241 klm Sth / Wst of Perth as well there is a P3 Orion attending the emergency from Perth.

User currently offlineLandSweetLand From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 104, posted (6 months 5 days ago) and read 10694 times:

I went and had another look and it looks like it departed from Essendon(MEB) rather than Tullamarine(MEL). Doesn't really help much though.

User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 105, posted (6 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 10649 times:

Quoting qantas834300 (Reply 103):
Regards the A/C x Melbourne, " Gulfstream 5", there is a search and rescue operation ongoing from a fishing vessel some 3241 klm Sth / Wst of Perth as well there is a P3 Orion attending the emergency from Perth.

Thanks for the info.

The first thought that had come into my head was something to do with the MH370 search, but this makes much more sense.


User currently offlineLandSweetLand From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 106, posted (6 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 10579 times:

Quoting qantas834300 (Reply 103):
" Gulfstream 5",

Thanks for the info.


User currently offlineaussie18 From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 1747 posts, RR: 9
Reply 107, posted (6 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10561 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 100):
If anybody can make it to SYD today to catch a view of the UA 744 for the last time I'd like to know if there are more spotters there than usual today for this special occasion?

Also, if anybody happens to listen to UA870 depart on Live ATC or whatever website I'd like to know if ATC said anything different or special - like gave the UA 744 a farewell message?

There was not much of a crowd out to farewell the final United 747 departure today, Just looked like a normal sunday afternoon with some spotters and families watching the aircraft.

Photo of the last United 747 departure-
User currently offlineFlyingsottsman From Australia, joined Oct 2010, 549 posts, RR: 0
Reply 108, posted (6 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10475 times:

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 82):

Did that jet end up down in MEL as the MEL tag on ? Or is the LAX flight still a 744 untill the 787 is put on the Pacific?


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 109, posted (6 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 10391 times:

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 108):
Did that jet end up down in MEL as the MEL tag on ? Or is the LAX flight still a 744 untill the 787 is put on the Pacific?

Both the SFO and LAX flights are now 77E's.

The 789 into MEL will commence in Oct, but in the meantime the tag-on flight to MEL is now a 77E.


User currently offline777Jet From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 1873 posts, RR: 4
Reply 110, posted (6 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 10025 times:

Quoting aussie18 (Reply 107):
There was not much of a crowd out to farewell the final United 747 departure today, Just looked like a normal sunday afternoon with some spotters and families watching the aircraft.

Thank you for being there. I wish I could have made it out of my respect to the UA 744...

Did anybody hear it talk to ATC? I wonder if ATC said a special farewell...



DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90,717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788,306,320,321,332/3,346,388
User currently offlineTruemanQLD From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 1554 posts, RR: 0
Reply 111, posted (6 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9962 times:

Brisbane Airport has released their 20 year Master Plan

Quoting http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/brisbane-airport-master-plan-proposes-monorail-to-link-terminals-and-parking-areas-20140331-35siu.html:
A monorail is likely to be the centrepiece of a planned $2.5 billion expansion of Brisbane Airport.
Passenger numbers at the airport are expected to more than double in the next 20 years to 48.7 million per year by 2033-34, according to the Brisbane Airport Corporation's Preliminary Draft Master Plan.
A “mass transit system” has been proposed by airport chiefs to deal with the passenger boom, with the track circulating between the international, domestic and parking area. Extra stations could also be added if required.
Depending on the vehicles chosen, the system could handle 3200 passengers per hour per direction, with journey lasting no longer than five minutes.
“Due to existing site constraints, the track design would be predominantly elevated,” the report says.
“Station design would be integrated with the terminals and would include safety design measures such as automated vehicle and platform doors, cameras and access provisions for mobility impaired passengers.”
Expansions of the international and domestic terminals have also been slated, with construction of a separate charter terminal already underway and expected to open in 2015.
Brisbane Airport Corporation chief executive Julieanne Alroe said when completed, the master plan would balance economic development with environmental sustainability.
“We have looked at the 2700 hectares that encompasses Brisbane Airport to see where we can best plan for the future. Whether it's a bike path, new road or terminal expansion, every aspect is addressed within the Master Plan,” she said.
The draft plan is open to public comment until June 26.

The plan can be found here: http://www.bne.com.au/corporate/upgr...ding-your-airport/2014-master-plan


User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 2085 posts, RR: 4
Reply 112, posted (6 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9732 times:

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 111):
A monorail is likely to be the centrepiece of a planned $2.5 billion expansion of Brisbane Airport.

A monorail is perfect for Brisvegas! Would a Simpson's quote be appropriate here?

(Note that Brisbane previously had a monorail at Expo '88).

Sydney Airport could do with a people-mover system between terminals.



Applying insanity to normality
User currently offlineTruemanQLD From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 1554 posts, RR: 0
Reply 113, posted (6 months 4 days ago) and read 9657 times:

Quoting allrite (Reply 112):
A monorail is perfect for Brisvegas! Would a Simpson's quote be appropriate here?

(Note that Brisbane previously had a monorail at Expo '88).

Sydney Airport could do with a people-mover system between terminals.

Having looked briefly over the plan, monorail is definitely the wrong word. Would be more like a light rail/metro. Plan actually looks good, have a track that has a 3rd station at a central point to help reduce congestion outside the main terminals. Also future terminal layout looks a bit confusing for domestic.


User currently onlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 114, posted (6 months 4 days ago) and read 9638 times:

I assume these Master Plans are required to be prepared by the airport managers on a certain schedule as a condition of their long-term lease. Each Australian airport has them and tends to cover plans well out into the future, some of which may happen and some of which will undoubtedly be revised due to changing circumstances.


717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,A310,320,321,332,333,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,S
User currently offlineeaglefarm4 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 458 posts, RR: 1
Reply 115, posted (6 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 9465 times:

Every 5 years a airport has to come up with a masterplan for the next 20 years.BAC have divided it into 5 year periods for the next 2 periods then 10 years.

Massive development with satellite lounges also to be built as well.Domestic will become T2 and International T1, with T2 also planning to take international flights down the track.



tourismman
User currently offlineZuluAlpha From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 406 posts, RR: 0
Reply 116, posted (6 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9292 times:

Quoting allrite (Reply 112):
A monorail is perfect for Brisvegas! Would a Simpson's quote be appropriate here?

No, a Simpson's quote would not be appropriate .. but a happy monorail themed song would be !!

"Monorail .. Monorail ... Monoraaiiilllll !!! "



CRJ CR7 D10 DHT DH8 DH2 DH3 DH4 EMB ER3 E90 F28 J32 M80 SH6 320 332 333 380 717 732 733 734 738 743 744 752 762 763 772
User currently offlineTN486 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 924 posts, RR: 2
Reply 117, posted (6 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9244 times:

Quoting qantas834300 (Reply 103):
Regards the A/C x Melbourne, " Gulfstream 5", there is a search and rescue operation ongoing from a fishing vessel some 3241 klm Sth / Wst of Perth as well there is a P3 Orion attending the emergency from Perth.

My understanding was the Gulfstream was assisting the whole MH370 thing , replacing the Orion that went looking for the fishing vessel.



remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 118, posted (6 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9235 times:

Quoting eaglefarm4 (Reply 115):
Massive development with satellite lounges also to be built as well.Domestic will become T2 and International T1, with T2 also planning to take international flights down the track.

Certainly a good masterplan. Lots of space to grow.

Good luck getting the Fed govt to pay for decent customs and immigration coverage in 2 terminals though. They struggle handling 1 terminal at present at each airport unfortunately.

You raise an interesting point though in regard to the dual international terminal ops. Could a preclearance process for Trans-Tasman flights be benificial? With significant narrow bodied ops flying across the Tasman, these flights tend to take up significant international gate space at the big 3 east coast Australian airports (SYD, MEL, BNE) and AKL in particular in NZ.

Moving these ops to a domestic terminal would likely be a significant benefit for an airport like MEL in particular, which has T2 (International) with limited space to grow, whilst the domestic terminals can expand outwards with less hassles. BNE has less issues in this regard though, with more space to grow its current international facility.


User currently onlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 119, posted (6 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 8990 times:

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 118):
Moving these ops to a domestic terminal would likely be a significant benefit for an airport like MEL in particular, which has T2 (International) with limited space to grow, whilst the domestic terminals can expand outwards with less hassles. BNE has less issues in this regard though, with more space to grow its current international facility.

Whilst MEL T2 appears to have limited growth, MEL's own strategic plan shows T2 growing to 25 gates, 9 of them A380 capable. The issue with MEL is more around landside (particularly Arrivals) and Customs limitations.

I was surprised that as part of the T3/T4 redevelopment at MEL, that int'l ops didn't take over the existing northern concourse in T3 (Concourse Echo) and redevelop it so it was int'l capable as well as using the existing T3 terminal space for increased landside and customs space. At the same time a new larger terminal could've been built south of the existing T3 to house VA and linking into the new T4 which is being built for TT/JQ.



717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,A310,320,321,332,333,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,S
User currently offlineeaglefarm4 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 458 posts, RR: 1
Reply 120, posted (6 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8933 times:

HAL are adding their 4th flight to BNE today.


tourismman
User currently offlineTruemanQLD From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 1554 posts, RR: 0
Reply 121, posted (6 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 8758 times:

Quoting eaglefarm4 (Reply 120):
HAL are adding their 4th flight to BNE today.

As in announcing or starting (in which case I missed the announcement)?

Either way, great news for BNE and hopefully will see daily operations soon!


User currently offlineAeroplaneFreak From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 541 posts, RR: 0
Reply 122, posted (6 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8700 times:

Can anybody give an update on how the MEL T3/T4 redevelopment is going?

[Edited 2014-03-31 20:28:08]

User currently offlinecbrboy From Australia, joined Apr 2007, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 123, posted (6 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8703 times:

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 121):
As in announcing or starting (in which case I missed the announcement)?

It was announced back in December. First Monday flight from HNL is estimated to arrive BNE at 1554 today BNE time, and first Tuesday flight from BNE scheduled to depart at 1835 today.


User currently offlinepugsley From Australia, joined Jan 2010, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 124, posted (6 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 8192 times:

Quoting eaglefarm4 (Reply 120):
Quote:
HAL are adding their 4th flight to BNE today.

Today Jetstar will announce the start of direct flights from Brisbane to Honolulu commencing in December.
Twice a week with a third service in peak periods.



A319, A320, A321, A332, A333, A343, A388, BAe146, B717, B733, B734, B735, B73G, B73H, B743, B744, B762, B763, B772, B773
User currently offlineTruemanQLD From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 1554 posts, RR: 0
Reply 125, posted (6 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 8145 times:

Quoting pugsley (Reply 124):
Today Jetstar will announce the start of direct flights from Brisbane to Honolulu commencing in December.
Twice a week with a third service in peak periods.

Fantastic! Great to see JQ finally stepping up at BNE International. Now for CHC!


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25323 posts, RR: 85
Reply 126, posted (6 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 8139 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

In a fairly innocuous article about the new Qantas lounge at BME, one line surprised me:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/travel/t...rport/story-fnjjv799-1226872262155

"LAST week Qantas Frequent Flyers were outraged by a shake-up to the points scheme - but this week, the airline has unveiled a fresh attempt to appeal to premium passengers in one of Australia’s fastest-growing regions for business and leisure travel."

Forget that folk were "outraged" by the FF changes, this too shall pass, is BME really one of the fastest growing regions for business and leisure travel or do they mean the Pilbara and the Kimberleys, generally?

I accept that it may also be just media flim flam, but it would be sweet music to my ears of if were true. I love Broome.  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently onlineDeltaB717 From Australia, joined Jun 2012, 495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 127, posted (6 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 8142 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Jetstar BNEHNL announcement... no schedule as yet that I can find.

http://www.jetstar.com/mediacentre/l...4f5b-8aaa-e0aad8e57d70&language=en


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6433 posts, RR: 39
Reply 128, posted (6 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 8109 times:

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 127):
http://www.ausbt.com.au/jetstar-to-l...=flipper&utm_campaign=home-flipper

Quote:
On Tuesdays and Fridays from December 15, JQ5 will depart Brisbane at 4:25pm, touching down in Honolulu at 6am on the same calendar day.

For the return journey, JQ6 is wheels up in Hawaii at 8:45am on Mondays and Thursdays, landing home in Brisbane at 2:30pm the following day.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently onlineDeltaB717 From Australia, joined Jun 2012, 495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 129, posted (6 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 8070 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Nice one, thanks! I assume these A330s will somehow rotate through HNL from either SYD or MEL, ie something like MEL-HNL-BNE-HNL-MEL?

User currently offline777Jet From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 1873 posts, RR: 4
Reply 130, posted (6 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 8077 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 128):
Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 127):
http://www.ausbt.com.au/jetstar-to-l...=flipper&utm_campaign=home-flipper

Quote:
On Tuesdays and Fridays from December 15, JQ5 will depart Brisbane at 4:25pm, touching down in Honolulu at 6am on the same calendar day.

For the return journey, JQ6 is wheels up in Hawaii at 8:45am on Mondays and Thursdays, landing home in Brisbane at 2:30pm the following day.

Good for JQ!

I also note that they now have some SYD-MEL Intl add on flights on the 787 not just the 332...



DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90,717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788,306,320,321,332/3,346,388
User currently offline777Jet From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 1873 posts, RR: 4
Reply 131, posted (6 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 8061 times:

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 129):
Nice one, thanks! I assume these A330s will somehow rotate through HNL from either SYD or MEL, ie something like MEL-HNL-BNE-HNL-MEL?

JQ often relocate their International birds on domestic hops so that is not necessary, but it might be the case, I can't wait to see. I like how the flights from Japan via Queensland, the flight from HNL or the flight from HKT or where ever is often just sent to MEL after coming to SYD and then operates something like MEL-BKK or MEL-SIN. It gives us a chance to pick up a cheap domestic flight on the 787  

BNE is a big city so it wouldn't surprise me if they just send it on a domestic hop to either SYD or MEL before sending it elsewhere.



DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90,717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788,306,320,321,332/3,346,388
User currently onlineDeltaB717 From Australia, joined Jun 2012, 495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 132, posted (6 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 8043 times:
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Quoting 777Jet (Reply 131):
JQ often relocate their International birds on domestic hops

They do, but looking at the timings it leaves HNL on Mon/Thurs and arrives BNE on Tues/Fri, so has a turnaround of 1:55 in BNE.


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 133, posted (6 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7837 times:

Interesting that JQ are taking on HA out of BNE.

Not too sure both will survive on the route at their current (HA) and future (JQ) frequency levels.

Yes, the route is doing decent numbers for HA now, but adding in competition will have an effect.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4928 posts, RR: 4
Reply 134, posted (6 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7752 times:

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 133):

Interesting that JQ are taking on HA out of BNE.

Not too sure both will survive on the route at their current (HA) and future (JQ) frequency levels.

Yes, the route is doing decent numbers for HA now, but adding in competition will have an effect.

Good for the consumer, but you are right on the mark if HA can only support 4 weekly how will JQ survive with a 2 weekly service.

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 135, posted (6 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7724 times:

I think that Brisbane can quite easily manage 6 weekly frequencies to Honolulu during the school holidays, but that the main consequence of JQ putting on two weekly A332s is that Hawaiian will remain at three weekly 763s outside school holidays instead of building up to four weekly A332s of their own.

Don't forget that Honolulu and Phuket are almost equidistant from Brisbane:

Brisbane - Honolulu = 7,500 km
Brisbane - Phuket = 7,000 km
Brisbane - Bali = 4,500 km

Two and a half years ago I went to a friend from the Sunshine Coast's 60th birthday celebration in Waikiki. Not a doctor or a lawyer, a bank teller.

Similarly, my kids' school principal is in Honolulu right now, negotiating an exchange program.

The key questions are going to be:

1) Will fare levels be low enough to encourage people who were going to go to Fiji, Bali or Phuket to "buy up"? Yields need to be high enough to be profitable, but low enough to deliver high volumes and loadings.

2) Will demand outside the school holidays be high enough to sustain the route year-round on two carriers?

3) Will the Australian dollar remain high enough for this route to flourish? I reckon every cent below US$0.90 probably knocks 3% off load factors.

4) Would inbound demand from Hawaii be better if Jetstar (but not Hawaiian) was flying to OOL? Hawaii is a state with an incredible surf culture, and it is hard to imagine much interest in Brisbane, while there would be some interest in the Gold Coast.

5) Why does Virgin Australia not codeshare on or sell Hawaiian's BNE-HNL flights in the way that it does the SYD-HNL flights?

[Edited 2014-04-02 01:00:45]

User currently offlineTruemanQLD From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 1554 posts, RR: 0
Reply 136, posted (6 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7701 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 135):
5) Why does Virgin Australia not codeshare on or sell Hawaiian's BNE-HNL flights in the way that it does the SYD-HNL flights?

A good question which I have often asked myself. Unless it is a NZ thing where they try and route passengers via AKL? Though going BNE-AKL-HNL requires a minimum 4.5hour layover on the way there...

Quoting koruman (Reply 135):
4) Would inbound demand from Hawaii be better if Jetstar (but not Hawaiian) was flying to OOL? Hawaii is a state with an incredible surf culture, and it is hard to imagine much interest in Brisbane, while there would be some interest in the Gold Coast.

I highly doubt the inbound tourism is even one fifth of the outbound tourism and as such BNE makes a lot more sense and also allows domestic connections from wider variety of places.

Will be interesting to see the success of JQ vs HA given HA does serve a connecting market as well. I know a few people going to Canada and the States who have gone HA from BNE. It is usually price competitive and baggage allowance in all classes is 2x32kg (better than VA/QF/AA which is 2x23kg in Y and considerably better than DL/UA/NZ/FJ which is 1x23kg)


User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5624 posts, RR: 5
Reply 137, posted (6 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7693 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 135):
I reckon every cent below US$0.90 probably knocks 3% off load factors.

Without anything quantifiable to measure this against, I think that you're probably right there. It will be interesting to see what happens.

When I booked in January the AUD was coming in at 88c, but today it is 92c so I think I've done pretty well (albeit nowhere near as well as in 2011-12 ... eventually I will have to readjust my expectations, but right now I'm pretty bitter about the fact that we are below parity, 4% improvement or not).

Quoting koruman (Reply 135):
Would inbound demand from Hawaii be better if Jetstar (but not Hawaiian) was flying to OOL? Hawaii is a state with an incredible surf culture, and it is hard to imagine much interest in Brisbane

The inbound market is an interesting question, and one I hadn't thought about before. My answer would be that it takes 30 seconds on Google to discover that Brisbane is proximate to the Gold Coast, and maybe another 2 minutes to realise that it is quicker to fly to Brisbane and rent a car than fly HNL-SYD-OOL.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 138, posted (6 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7685 times:

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 136):
I highly doubt the inbound tourism is even one fifth of the outbound tourism and as such BNE makes a lot more sense and also allows domestic connections from wider variety of places.

I totally agree with you.

The thing is, I imagine that Hawaiian will get at least 80% of the market of people who are going to visit one or more neighbour island, and that Jetstar will be left as ever with the lowest yielding passengers and a handful of Business Class pax on Max Bundles to earn Qantas Status Credits.

I don't imagine that there will be much connecting traffic, and any Cairns or Townsville pax can just as easily route via Sydney.

So using your numbers - which I don't dispute at all - we are left with perhaps:

Hawaiian residents: 15%
Brisbane residents: 45%
Gold Coast / Northern NSW residents: 20%
Sunshine Coast residents: 10%
Other: 10%

If that's the case, and passengers are choosing JQ purely on price, then it brings us back to why Jetstar (from Japan), Scoot and Air Asia X serve Gold Coast long-haul and not Brisbane.

And I think that the two answers are:

1) There is far more inbound leisure demand to the Gold Coast than Brisbane, and
2) Ex-OOL, these flights don't just get the lowest demographics but also the higher ones from that market. A dentist from Burleigh Heads would presumably fly Air Asia X to southeast Asia from OOL in preference to Malaysian from BNE.

I'm not trying to create Air Koruman - I would go up to BNE to fly HA or NZ - but I just wonder whether Jetstar might have been better differentiating themselves by using OOL.

Now if Jetstar would operate an annual BNE-BOB flight for me, that I would drive up to Brisbane to catch!


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 139, posted (6 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7655 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 138):
There is far more inbound leisure demand to the Gold Coast than Brisbane,

I think thats a given for Inbound pax. BNE is not a big tourist destination yet in its own right, but it is good for business and outbound leisure demand, along with some connection pax.

Quoting koruman (Reply 138):
Ex-OOL, these flights don't just get the lowest demographics but also the higher ones from that market. A dentist from Burleigh Heads would presumably fly Air Asia X to southeast Asia from OOL in preference to Malaysian from BNE.

I think this is true in many cases.

Given that D7's premium product is actually fairly good these days, along with the convenience would allow this to be an even more attractive offer.

Quoting koruman (Reply 138):
but I just wonder whether Jetstar might have been better differentiating themselves by using OOL.

The Japan services with JQ are largely inbound pax focused, which makes markets like CNS and OOL far more attractive than BNE.

The SE Asian carriers/routes would appear to be more of a 50/50 proposition though. They would rely on a broader mix of pax, which would usually sway things back in BNE's favour to maximise yields, however given SQ's ownership of Scoot (SQ flies to BNE) and MH flying into BNE, this certainly brings in the differentiation element for them.

On a HNL route though, the demand would be much higher weighted in BNE's favour. It is largely an outbound market, which makes it more important to focus on the larger airport catchment. JQ's refocusing of late from OOL (ceasing KIX, keeping NRT) to BNE (launching DPS and HNL) goes to show it is choosing markets based on maximising yield and demand potential on a case by case basis, not just now focusing all its eggs in one basket in SEQ, which is wise.

One only needs to remember FJ's attempt at flights from OOL to show just how unsuccessful an outbound focused market can be from the wrong airport. Fiji is a leisure oriented route, with a small connection pax component, which failed to take off into OOL. This would likely find the same outcome for JQ trying to fly to HNL from OOL.


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 140, posted (6 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7625 times:

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 139):
On a HNL route though, the demand would be much higher weighted in BNE's favour. It is largely an outbound market, which makes it more important to focus on the larger airport catchment.

I largely agree, except that I'd argue that the demographics of the catchment areas need to be taken into account.

Brisbane's population superficially exceeds Gold Coast's by around 3:1, but when you excise large suburban areas where people are as likely to visit the moon as Hawaii (Logan to the south, Strathpine to the north, Ipswich to the west) that narrows markedly.

My suggestion of OOL for JQ's services is half-hearted, but I'm struggling to see how they are going to compete with Hawaiian for anything but the lowest segment of the market at BNE.

If you look elsewhere, Jetstar has a Honolulu monopoly at Melbourne, but their growth from Sydney has been utterly dwarfed by Hawaiian's growth.


User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5624 posts, RR: 5
Reply 141, posted (6 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7630 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 138):
Hawaiian will get at least 80% of the market of people who are going to visit one or more neighbour island, and that Jetstar will be left as ever with the lowest yielding passengers and a handful of Business Class pax on Max Bundles to earn Qantas Status Credits.

I guess I fall into both  

I'm visiting Kauai and Big Island, and after spending 3 hours in Oahu a couple of years ago my desire to visit Waikiki hovers somewhere between zero and nada.

I make no secret that I booked on the basis of price, as JQ SYD-HNL-SYD, YV HNL-LIH, and HA LIH-OGG-ITO-HNL worked out several hundred dollars cheaper than booking with HA and bundling it all together, although I did buy up to the Max bundle specifically to earn status credits.

Quoting koruman (Reply 138):
it brings us back to why Jetstar (from Japan), Scoot and Air Asia X serve Gold Coast long-haul and not Brisbane.

Because they're after the inbound market. Scoot and Air Asia are possibly looking at bi-directional traffic, but Japan-Queensland inbound is a much larger market than Queensland-Japan outbound.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 142, posted (6 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7627 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 141):
after spending 3 hours in Oahu a couple of years ago my desire to visit Waikiki hovers somewhere between zero and nada.

That's because you don't know where to go!

The answer is Kailua/Lanikai on the Windward coast. You still stay at Waikiki, but rent a car and you have the same craggy mountains and turquoise water you'd get in French Polynesia and the Cook Islands. That's why Obama stays there every Christmas. It's no more developed than the Neighbor Islands, but it's actually a lot more beautiful!

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 141):
Because they're after the inbound market. Scoot and Air Asia are possibly looking at bi-directional traffic, but Japan-Queensland inbound is a much larger market than Queensland-Japan outbound.

Let me put some lame, concocted figures on this to try to illustrate my point.

Imagine that in terms of outbound (ex-Qld) traffic to Koruman Island the daily traffic figures are:

Brisbane area: 300 discount economy pax, 100 higher economy pax, 30 Business pax
Sunshine Coast: 60 / 20 / 5
Gold Coast: 100/ 50 / 15

My hypothesis is that if Jetstar enters the Brisbane market in competition with a full-service carrier, it's likely market is a price-sensitive part of the 460 discount economy pax, none of the higher economy pax, and a tiny fraction of the 50 Business pax who are hunting cheap Qantas status. They might also hope to invent 20 or 30 affluent Econom,y pax who will buy Premium Economy marketed as Business class.

But if they enter the Gold Coast market instead, as the sole airline in the market, they should scoop up all the Gold Coast pax in every market sector - including the higher-yielding ones - and still pick up the price-sensitive Brisbane passengers too.

I just fear that in direct competition with Hawaiian (which includes baggage, IFE and catering in its fares), Jetstar's only weapon is low pricing.


User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 883 posts, RR: 0
Reply 143, posted (6 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7365 times:

28 Mar 2014 ASX announcement says SQ have increased their interest in VAH from 19.83% to 22.17%.

SQ purchased 35,045,334 shares on market during Feb and Mar, and have a UBS deal for 47,048,785 shares to be finalised 26 May 2014, making a total of 779,211,072 shares.

These are the latest substantial security holder notices.
Air New Zealand ----------------- 24.46% (16 Dec 2013)
Singapore Airlines -------------- 22.17% (28 Mar 2014)
Etihad Airways ------------------ 19.90% (18 Dec 2013)
Corvina Holdings (Branson) --10.00% (10 Oct 2013)

PA515

[Edited 2014-04-02 06:28:11]

User currently offlinepugsley From Australia, joined Jan 2010, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 144, posted (6 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7185 times:

From Qantas.com

Quote:
QF27/28 between Sydney and Santiago on 4 Apr, 25 Apr & 2 May; QF4017/4018 between Haneda and Singapore and QF8163/8164 between Dubai and Dublin are subject to Government and regulatory approval.

The QF27/28 dates are the additional flights around the World Cup and QF8163/8164 must be a new EK codeshare.

What and when is the QF4017/4018??? I can only assume it's a charter of some type, but can't find when it's operating, how often or why... Any insight anyone?



A319, A320, A321, A332, A333, A343, A388, BAe146, B717, B733, B734, B735, B73G, B73H, B743, B744, B762, B763, B772, B773
User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 2085 posts, RR: 4
Reply 145, posted (6 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7138 times:

Quoting pugsley (Reply 144):
What and when is the QF4017/4018??? I can only assume it's a charter of some type, but can't find when it's operating, how often or why... Any insight anyone?

Not sure about QF4017/8 but QF4021 and QF4025 are QF codeshares on JAL from SIN-HND.



Applying insanity to normality
User currently offlinepugsley From Australia, joined Jan 2010, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 146, posted (6 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7139 times:

Quoting allrite (Reply 145):

Nice thought allrite, codeshare is so obvious with your info.



A319, A320, A321, A332, A333, A343, A388, BAe146, B717, B733, B734, B735, B73G, B73H, B743, B744, B762, B763, B772, B773
User currently offline777Jet From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 1873 posts, RR: 4
Reply 147, posted (6 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7146 times:

Regarding the UAL 777 patterns: The first 777 out of SYD operated the typical SFO-SYD-LAX-SYD-MEL-SYD-SFO route that the 744s typically did. Since then, there has been no typical pattern. Whilst still early days, I think the move to the 777 has given more flexibility as the 777s operate to other destinations out of both LAX and SFO unlike the 744 which only flew to SYD from LAX. I wonder, if an aircraft goes tech now, if they will just delay or cancel whatever flight that frame was supposed to be on rather than usually cancelling the SFO flight regardless of what aircraft went tech in order to get the 744 into LAX from SYD to be able to operate the evening departure back to SYD? That was one reason I tried to always get on the LAX flight, knowing that it was the least likely flight to get cancelled. The 777 seems to offer more flexibility to UA, which is good!


DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90,717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788,306,320,321,332/3,346,388
User currently offlineundertheradar From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 78 posts, RR: 0
Reply 148, posted (6 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7099 times:

Quoting allrite (Reply 145):

through the power of a simple search on the interweb!! QF4017/8 = SIN/HND/SIN operated by JAL(JL38/JL37)... QF4021 = SIN/NRT operated by JAL( JL712) ... QF4025 = SIN/HND operated by JAL (JL36)

courtesy of 'flightstats'

[Edited 2014-04-02 18:27:23]

User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5624 posts, RR: 5
Reply 149, posted (6 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7107 times:

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 147):
Whilst still early days, I think the move to the 777 has given more flexibility as the 777s operate to other destinations

I definitely agree. I think that we will now see less "pattern" as aircraft can be routed through either SYD or LHR. They will probably still want to rotate those aircraft into and out of SFO (or ORD via LHR) but the rotations could go either way.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 147):
I wonder, if an aircraft goes tech now, if they will just delay or cancel whatever flight that frame was supposed to be on rather than usually cancelling the SFO

They'd probably still cancel SFO though. Of the top of my head, SYD and LHR are the only remaining 777 routes at LAX, with NRT and PVG now 787. Therefore if they cancel the inbound they would [possibly] have to cancel one of those outbound flights, whereas at SFO they have more flexibility to move things around.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined exactly 10 years ago today! , 3329 posts, RR: 20
Reply 150, posted (6 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7105 times:

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 92):
The CEO of QR has said everything from the Sydney market is saturated as it is to the airline will not operate into SYD is a 24 hour airport.

QR will not operate SYD because to maximise DOH connections it would need to operate a similar schedule to Melbourne.

arrive 2200 and depart 2330. It's considered too tight due curfew.

That said, don't be surprised if BA and QR do a similar deal to EK/QF.

BA could switch one of it's 2 LHR-SIN services to operate LHR-DOH-SYD, which would give QR access to Sydney.

The tricky part would be getting the right connection bank over DOH.

However, given that QR is increasing its second and third banks in DOH and BA already has the aircraft sit in Sydney for close to 12 hours, it may be possible.


LHRDOH 1100 - 1945
DOHSYD 2100 - 1700
SYDDOH 2220 - 0530 + 1
DOHLHR 730 - 1230

or

LHRDOH 0800- 1645
DOHSYD 1800 - 1400 + 1
SYDDOH 1600 - 2320
DOHLHR 0130 - 0645


User currently offline777Jet From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 1873 posts, RR: 4
Reply 151, posted (6 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7037 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 149):
They'd probably still cancel SFO though. Of the top of my head, SYD and LHR are the only remaining 777 routes at LAX, with NRT and PVG now 787. Therefore if they cancel the inbound they would [possibly] have to cancel one of those outbound flights, whereas at SFO they have more flexibility to move things around.

I think so, but at least they will not have to as they have more flexibility in LAX with the 777. I always wondered why they would almost always cancel the SFO flight when a bird went tech to make the LAX flight operate when they would have plenty of time to just send a bird down on the short hop from SFO to LAX if they had to cancel the flight from SYD to LAX? After all, there are several other flights from SYD to LAX that could accommodate pax. UA to SFO is the only flight, and as SFO is the bigger hub, I thought it would be easier to cancel the LAX flight and just send a plane down from SFO to operate the outbound flight to SYD...???



DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90,717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788,306,320,321,332/3,346,388
User currently offlineJQflightie From Australia, joined Mar 2009, 987 posts, RR: 1
Reply 152, posted (6 months 22 hours ago) and read 6889 times:

Im surprised it hasnt been posted yet.... but it is VA and they dont sell as many papers as QF does in the News.. here goes..

Australian Fin Review - Today 3/4/14
Virgin out of Gulf Club - http://www.afr.com/p/blogs/rear_wind...f_gulf_club_fG7MXYV0fEM4RvsPxd0y4K

now im sorry but i dont have a membership to this so i cant post the full article - but basically its saying that VA are going to 'quietly' dump AUH leaving LAX as its only long-haul international route.



Next Trip: PER-DPS-LOP-CGK-KUL-PVG-LHR, LCY-MAD-VLC, BCN-LYS-TLS-IST-JED-KUL-SGN-CAN-MEL
User currently offlinezkncj From New Zealand, joined Nov 2005, 546 posts, RR: 0
Reply 153, posted (6 months 22 hours ago) and read 6880 times:

Quoting JQflightie (Reply 152):
Im surprised it hasnt been posted yet.... but it is VA and they dont sell as many papers as QF does in the News.. here goes..

Australian Fin Review - Today 3/4/14
Virgin out of Gulf Club - http://www.afr.com/p/blogs/rear_wind...f_gulf_club_fG7MXYV0fEM4RvsPxd0y4K

now im sorry but i dont have a membership to this so i cant post the full article - but basically its saying that VA are going to 'quietly' dump AUH leaving LAX as its only long-haul international route.

I would not be one bit suprized if NZ took over VA 77Ws


User currently offlinebwwt From Australia, joined Jul 2013, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 154, posted (6 months 21 hours ago) and read 6812 times:

Quoting zkncj (Reply 153):
I would not be one bit suprized if NZ took over VA 77Ws

What would NZ do with them?