Yyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16457 posts, RR: 55
Reply 1, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2189 times:
Hey Rich, I agree completely.
Airlines like to buy families of airliners. Witness the 737NG or A320 ranges.
The current 717-200 (as good as it may be) is a bit of an orphan. A 717-100 and/or a -300 would offer the family concept to prospective customers. It would also indicate Boeing's continued commitment to the 717.
I see Air Tran and AA (assuming they end up being happy w the ex-TWA 717s) as being logical/possible 717-300 customers.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
JmhLUV2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 559 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2175 times:
I suppose I am the first to reply, so here is what I think; from what I was told from a former pilot who is current in the industry, Boeing was never really excited about actually marketing the MD-95 (717) it was extra baggage from the MD merger. However they couldnt just cancel production of the type as there were too many orders from AirTran, TWA and others.
Boeing, I am sure would like to focus its time and attention on "there" products, ie. 737's NG, as they are I feel, Boeings true pried & joy. To answer your question, I dont look to see any further series of the 717 of course that could change.
Flying_higher From France, joined Jun 1999, 77 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2169 times:
I'm sure a 717-300 on MD-90 size would compete with the 737 NG but will be more competitive in fuel consumption, so I really hope with you that boieng will produce that...with the MD-90 frame it won't even cost a lot. (Maybe the wings should be redesigned!)
I don't really think that the 737 will forever compete with the A320!! So the smarter 717 will do the Job!
What is really imperative to ensure the success of the 717, is that there is a family program covering the most current sizes of planes (from A318 to 320 at least) !
COboeing777 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 693 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2156 times:
I doubt Boeing would try to sell a stretched verion of the 717. It would be too late. A lot of airlines have already bought 737-800s to replace their MD-80s. Continental did. Also, the reason why the 737-600 is "slow selling" is because it is basically a 737-500 with the glass cokpit and other NG features. Most 737-500s in service are not very old so there is no need for airlines to replace them. Give it some time and airlines who need to relace their 500s, that is of course if they still need a plane of that capacity.
Ironchain15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2132 times:
I believe, from what I heard, that if the 717-300 were built, it would be about the size of the DC-9-50 or somewhere between that and the MD-80, but I really do not think it will be made. I sure would love to see it though.
Oscar2 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2093 times:
I doubt that we will see a 717-300, as it would compete with the 737-700. I would like to see a boeing narrow body line up like
717-200 100 pax
717-300 120 pax
737-700 130 pax
737-800 150 pax
737-900 170 pax (I personally dislike this aircraft but it seems to me that it was created to compete with the A321 to some degree in order to keep the crew training costs down.)
757-200 185 pax
757-300 220 pax
But unless NW orders the 717-200, which I belive they will order the 318
or AA orders the 717-200 to replace the F100, which is pretty doubtful in the current situation I think we could see the end of the 717 lieup in a couple years unless they get a large order.
I think NW will be a big factor in this as they will have to order a DC9-30 replacement in the next 12-24 months or so to start replacing these planes so they will have delivery slots lined up.
AM744 From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 1816 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2053 times:
I honestly don't think the 717 will get any further developements. Which is too sad because I think that planes with rear mounted engines are the way to go on the 100-150 seat range. It's not a smart move to squeeze fairly big engines under a very low wing: noisy and ugly.
Highliner2 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 696 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2038 times:
The same was said of the aforementioned programs....the 737 wasn't even supposed to go into production, it did'nt have a enough firm orders to launch the project! Just wait and see, when this recession ends there's going to a surge in aircraft buying and I think the 717 program will get a big boost.
AM From Mexico, joined Oct 1999, 594 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2033 times:
I think a 717 family can be very successful. American has had great results with an enormous fleet of MD-80s, so why not with 717s? I only see 1 advantage that 737NGs and A320s would have over the 717-300: Range.
Like many of you, I'm hoping for a 717 order boom.
"... for there you have been and there you will long to return."
FBU 4EVER! From Norway, joined Jan 2001, 998 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2005 times:
The 717 has basically the old DC-9 wing.This means that developing the 717 into larger versions will mean facing the same problems that McD had when stretching the DC-9 beyond the -50.
A new,larger,wing had to be designed for the DC-9-80 (MD-80) and the main gear legs were also made taller to allow the plane to rotate without the aft fuselage striking the ground.This also allowed shortened runway lenght requirements.The longer the fuselage aft of the main gears,the less nose-up pitch available for rotation,more airspeed is needed before lifting off.This is a problem with the 737-800/900.
Boeing might as well "re-invent" the MD-80 if they want to develop the 717 further.
Travatl From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2175 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1991 times:
You hit the nail right on the head.
The 717 is based on the design of the DC9. The 717-300 may have a longer fueselage, but would still have the DC9 wing. When Boeing approached AirTran last year about launching the 717-300, AirTran wasn't interested due to lack of increased range of the -300 over the -200 (due to same wings as the -200).
In turn Boeing wasn't interested in studying a longer range 717 because it would entail reinventing the MD80 program (granted it may be called the 717-400, but would be as different as a DC9-30 and an MD80).
AirTran is kind of stuck as far as range capabilities with this aircraft if they want to maintain fleet commonality for costs. That is unless Boeing gets pressure from other carriers to a "Douglas Division Product" replacement for the MD80. (HIGHLY UNLIKELY). Time will tell - but I don't look to see ANY derivitives of the 717.
Ghost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5254 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1959 times:
You got a good point here saying that B 717-100 could be a the ones Competing with Bombardier CRJ-900s... also I could say that it would be good the 100 series to substitute some other acfts like here in Mex, Aeromar fly with the ATR42-500, I guess It would be much better to fly in a B717-100. And faster too.
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!