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Qantas Changes To Frequent Flyer Program  
User currently offlinetrent1000 From Japan, joined Jan 2007, 561 posts, RR: 2
Posted (5 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3079 times:

QANTAS is making major changes to its Frequent Flyer program.

From the QANTAS website: https://www.qantas.com.au/fflyer/dyn/program/fairer-flying

“Fairer Flying”?

Changing what you earn to better recognise and reward you for the fare you pay
Qantas and Jetstar Airlines
For travel on or from 1 July 2014, we're changing the way you earn Qantas Points and Status credits^ on Qantas and Jetstar to more closely align the number of Qantas Points and Status credits you earn with the fare you pay and the route you travel, rather than on the distance you fly.
You will enjoy more Qantas Points on most Qantas fares in Flexible Economy, Premium Economy, Business and First. However, our lower fares in Discount Economy and, in some cases Economy, will continue to earn points but at a reduced rate to other Economy options.
You'll continue to earn Status credits on all eligible~ fares too. The number of Status credits earned on many routes, even on our lower fares, will stay as they are today. You'll enjoy higher earn rates when you choose more flexible fares on most Qantas routes. However, there are some destinations where the number of Status credits you could earn will reduce as a result of our new route structure.

Reaction is not positive:
http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel...ogram/story-fnizu4n5-1226866880810

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5190 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (5 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2940 times:

Good news for Virgin Australia I guess.

User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6108 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (5 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2686 times:

Quoting trent1000 (Thread starter):
QANTAS is making major changes to its Frequent Flyer program.

Taking a page from the DL Skypeso book…..if QF is doing this, can the rest of OW be far behind.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6417 posts, RR: 38
Reply 3, posted (5 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2678 times:

Some more links here the titles of the articles basically says it all:

Qantas Frequent Flyer points overhaul

Qantas slashes status credits on OW partners

Qantas axes any seat awards


So overall, horrible news for the majority of QFF members.. They just cut the value of their own highly profitable business overnight. So are they now going to sell it at a discount too?

[Edited 2014-03-27 15:16:10]


It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3006 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (5 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2608 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 3):
So overall, horrible news for the majority of QFF members..

The majority of QFF members earn their points from Credit Cards so aren't impacted.

And there are no changes to classic redemptions or the ability to get an any seat redemption. You just can't get an any seat redemption at classic redemption rates and still earn points which was probably a hole in the system to start with.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6417 posts, RR: 38
Reply 5, posted (5 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2561 times:

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 4):

The majority of QFF members earn their points from Credit Cards so aren't impacted.

I'd say don't hold your breath for too long.. It sounds inevitable that the points earning from credit cards will decrease.

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 4):
You just can't get an any seat redemption at classic redemption rates and still earn points which was probably a hole in the system to start with.

Indeed, but that was the beauty of the ASA.. Marginally speaking, it probably didn't cost QF that much; and they earned loyalty through that scheme. But take that away, and there'll be many who jump ship.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineozglobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2718 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (5 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2419 times:

Dante has a special place reserved in his Inferno for the marketing graduates who come up with the words, "We're simplifying our programme..."

The last 3 screwings of QF FF members have been announced in the same manner.

I may not understand all they are saying, but I do know an insult when I see one....



When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3006 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (5 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2356 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 5):
I'd say don't hold your breath for too long.. It sounds inevitable that the points earning from credit cards will decrease.

I'm not so sure. The good thing about the banks and the credit card issuers is that you can shop around for the best card that maximises points accrual. (If that is the goal) How many points you earn depends on the issuer and their rewards program rather than QFF and since the issuers are buying points from QFF to reward customers with it's in QFF's interest to maximise this and therefore maximise the amount of cash they get.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 5):
Marginally speaking, it probably didn't cost QF that much; and they earned loyalty through that scheme. But take that away, and there'll be many who jump ship.

I'm not sure it will actually effect that many people because the majority of people redeeming any seat awards aren't redeeming them in the classic reward fare classes. So while this will affect some, the vast majority won't see a change. Is that enough to make people jump ship? I doubt most will even notice.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25122 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (5 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2343 times:
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Quoting ozglobal (Reply 6):
Dante has a special place reserved in his Inferno for the marketing graduates who come up with the words, "We're simplifying our programme..."

I think there should be a special place in Hell for the people who invented FF programs.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30898 posts, RR: 87
Reply 9, posted (5 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2343 times:
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Quoting NZ107 (Reply 5):
I'd say don't hold your breath for too long.. It sounds inevitable that the points earning from credit cards will decrease.

I would be very surprised if this happens. This is where a significant amount of FF program revenues come from (selling the miles to the card issuers).

If airlines reduce the accrual of miles per dollar spent on affinity credit cards, that disincentives people from using the card which means that the CC issuers will buy less miles from the airlines.


User currently offlineJohnClipper From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2005, 844 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2321 times:

CX, SQ, BR to name a few already do this. You earn miles corresponding the the fare class you pay. Makes perfect sense. I can remember back in '89 NW sent me a coupon to fly anywhere in the U.S. for $149 r/t. Took them up on it and earned full miles for a trans-con. No wonder they were teetering on bankruptcy then.

User currently offlineqf772 From Australia, joined Aug 2006, 103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2283 times:

Simplifying the program by making it so complex no-one cares any more and moves to Virgin


Eagles may soar but weasles don't get sucked into jet engines
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30898 posts, RR: 87
Reply 12, posted (5 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2270 times:
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Quoting qf772 (Reply 11):
Simplifying the program by making it so complex no-one cares any more and moves to Virgin.

At least until Virgin implements a similar reorganization.   


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25122 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (5 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2262 times:
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Quoting qf772 (Reply 11):
Simplifying the program by making it so complex no-one cares any more and moves to Virgin

What's complicated about it? Pay more for your fare - get more miles. How hard is that?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineTimTam From Australia, joined Nov 2013, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2249 times:

Not a lot of change if you fly QF.

Main changes are if you fly one OneWorld partners are are fair enough. QF has been too generous with CX in particular who have not been very kind in return.


User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (5 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2215 times:

Quoting TimTam (Reply 14):
Not a lot of change if you fly QF.

Or if you fly to North Asia. You'll earn less in my reckoning no matter how much you pay for the fare. Even status points are cut.



Applying insanity to normality
User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5435 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (5 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2126 times:

Last night when I received the email notifying me of these changes I was practically incandescent.

However, after sleeping on it and coming back to it, I can see that the changes relatively minor, and - to be honest - fair.

I don't at all dispute that this is a "fairer" system, but I am insulted by the use of the term "fairer, simpler". The new system is not at all simpler. Trying to de-code the new fare chart is a huge PITA. Not only is it not formatted in a logical manner (why not put all routes from East Coast Australia, then all from "North West Australia", then all from Dubai etc rather than the current hodge-podge which means you have to hunt for a route), it also has some glaring omissions. I take it that we are supposed to guess how many points and status credits will be earned flying SYD-JNB? (And I'm sure that the good burghers of Perth were delighted to wake up this morning to discover that they have moved overnight to "North West Australia").

Once you cut through this c**p, however, the changes are minimal. For most routes I looked at, when flying QF metal or a QF codeshare, the status credits are unchanged, and even increased. It was a major gripe of mine that only Y was not classified as "Discount Economy" under the old system. There is now a new tier between O, Q, N and Y, which means that if you aren't flying on the absolute cheapest economy fairs, you do get more points and status credits than those flying on sale fairs. That's a good move IMHO, as restricting all fares that cost less than $4000 to "Discount Economy" was incredibly stingy. For that I applaud this change.

The other thing is the new 800 mile minimum. This is a bit of kick in the guts, but it means that QF still have the most generous minimum earn of any frequent flyer program that I'm aware of. Most programs are 500 miles (or not at all). The key thing is that status credits on short flights in discount economy is still 10, rather than 5 on some partner flights, so I doubt anyone will really care other than maybe grumble a bit.

To everyone saying "time to switch to Velocity", pause for a moment and think. Velocity uses the $ method, like DL is moving to. Therefore for an average SYD-MEL fare, say $150, you earn 750 points, so QF is still more generous. The key thing about Velocity, though, is status credit earn. Admittedly Velocity has lower thresholds for status, but the program is less generous for earning status credits. Compare the Velocity status earn chart to even the new QF one, and QF comes out on top on the majority of sectors.

The big loser in this change, of course, are those people who fly partner flights. The biggest losers IMHO are BA and CX. CX because of everyone who uses them to get to HK, PRC and East Asia over the Qantas option, and BA for those who book the never-ending stream of $1800 fares that they're dumping into the market. By offering half the number of status credits on discount fares than on QF metal, this is all about driving people onto QF. I don't blame them for that. However, IMHO QF should at least expand the "Economy" bracket to beyond just Y if they are going to do this. At least B and H, IMHO, should earn the equivalent as QF's lowest status credits otherwise this is really, really unpalatable.

Overall, I'm not ecstatic about the changes, but if you fly QF then in most cases it isn't a huge issue. The key point though is that of the program "enhancements" that various airlines have announced over the past year or so, this is the least bad. Thank God they didn't go all Status Dollar on us!!!



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2967 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (5 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2105 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
I would be very surprised if this happens. This is where a significant amount of FF program revenues come from (selling the miles to the card issuers).

If airlines reduce the accrual of miles per dollar spent on affinity credit cards, that disincentives people from using the card which means that the CC issuers will buy less miles from the airlines.

The banks might be buying fewer points, but you can bet that QF is charging more than enough extra per point to compensate -- it's been happening for the last two years anyway. A standard level card used to earn up to 2 points per dollar, now you're lucky if you get even one point per dollar on most higher level cards. CBA only gives 0.75 points per dollar on the highest level platinum cards.

Besides, point sales is only one part of the equation. There's also the redemption side of things, and it is heavily in QF's favour to limit the number of points that customers have because it reduces their financial liability.


User currently offlineAirvan00 From Australia, joined Oct 2008, 758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (5 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1912 times:

Well I don't know what all the fuss is about. On the flights and the class of travel I book, the points earned and the status credits earned have gone up.

User currently offlinebwwt From Australia, joined Jul 2013, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1785 times:

The only real changes are those to the partners, the Nth Asian destinations and a few domestic routes. Everywhere else, either increased or remaining the same. And now those that book a mid economy fare actually come up a lot better.

[Edited 2014-03-27 23:06:00]

User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5435 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (5 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1702 times:

Quoting bwwt (Reply 19):
now those that book a mid economy fare actually come up a lot better.

That's why after thinking it through I'm pretty happy overall.

Quoting bwwt (Reply 19):
Everywhere else, either increased or remaining the same

I was feeling pretty bitter about the partner rates, but when you look at the earning table then this is very clearly targeted at CX, BA, MH, QR and LAN - i.e. those that actually compete with QF/EK.

The reduced earning rates apply for Australia to Asia, Middle East and South America.

For other routes the existing distance system still applies. To take an example, HKG-LHR earns 20 points under the new system (down from 30), but at 5,994mi would now earn 35 status credits under the distance model used for other routes.

With the exception of China and Japan, so long as you fly QF metal when available then in most cases you stand to be rewarded with at least as many if not more status credits as under the old model. The flip side, of course, is that many people in economy will earn fewer miles, although IMHO status credits are more valuable anyway.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8445 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (5 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1560 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 5):
I'd say don't hold your breath for too long.. It sounds inevitable that the points earning from credit cards will decrease.

Only if QF puts up the rates at which it sells the points to the card providers.


User currently offlinewingflex744 From Singapore, joined May 2013, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1195 times:
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Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 20):
The reduced earning rates apply for Australia to Asia, Middle East and South America.

and also for Europe to Far East Asia unfortunately...

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 20):
For other routes the existing distance system still applies. To take an example, HKG-LHR earns 20 points under the new system (down from 30), but at 5,994mi would now earn 35 status credits under the distance model used for other routes.

LHR-HKG is (until end of June) 40 status points and under the new system is halved to 20 points... (http://www.qantas.com.au/fflyer/dyn/program/status-credits)


Overall a very big impact to Asia based members like me who chose to fly CX and BA to Europe after they have trimmed the Asia-Europe flights and don't find convenience in flying EK via DXB...

Now I understand the use of the marketing tool to drive sales and incentivate people to buy more premium tickets but after all this marketing show off...there are no plans to introduce PEY on a strong market like SIN-Australia (also considering the already announced plan to become an all-A330 destination - no more 744 at Changi)

It is also not clear when they state

"Existing bookings for travel on or after 1 July 2014
For members with a booking made prior to 27 March 2014 in a fare class impacted by these changes for travel on or after 1 July 2014, we will automatically credit your account within a month of flying with the Qantas Points that applied when you made your booking"

if this applies to any airline bookings....hopefully it does!



Don't worry about the world coming to an end today...it's already tomorrow in Australia!
User currently offlinewingflex744 From Singapore, joined May 2013, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1179 times:
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They have also made some mistakes here and there...they have corrected some overnight but some still remain...
check this page:
http://www.qantas.com.au/fflyer/dyn/program/tier-info

They say that the tier bonus (take Platinum at 100% bonus) is calculated on flex economy in the best case.
So, in their sample table for a Australia to West Coast USA flight, why are they showing a 11250 point accrual under Premium Economy for a Platinum member when the Flex Economy accrual is 9000???



Don't worry about the world coming to an end today...it's already tomorrow in Australia!
User currently offlinevhtje From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 371 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 985 times:
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Quoting NZ107 (Reply 3):
They just cut the value

Explain? They may have certainly diminished the value for their Frequent Flyers, but do explain how it diminishes the value of the business? The two are most certainly not connected.


User currently offlinepackersfan From Australia, joined Oct 2011, 42 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (5 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 873 times:

Having now given the new system more than a cursory glance, I will add the person that can call this a simpler way is a genius. Even Qantas on their point tally info have got a mistake. They have Premium Economy Flex against the wrong FF Category. No big deal of course but just another point about the fact that it is NOT simpler. Is there such a word?

User currently offlinea345b727 From Australia, joined Jan 2014, 10 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (5 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 849 times:

Quoting Airvan00 (Reply 18):
Well I don't know what all the fuss is about. On the flights and the class of travel I book, the points earned and the status credits earned have gone up.

It's all about each flyer's circumstances.
Living in Oz and able to fly QF metal, then you're probably OK.
Living in Singapore and working a lot in North Asia, then not so good. Typical flight for me is SIN-HKG and then onto China and Taiwan.
I can go with Jetstar to HKG, but with 2-3x daily compared to 8x daily on CX, I can't justify the lack of flexibility.
Relocated here from Adelaide, so wasn't happy when QF canned the direct SIN-ADL flight. Sure I can go via SYD or MEL, but with 3 young kids, my wife rightly points out that less family stress is going to win over points earning every time, so we use the SQ direct flight.
This last QFF change is pretty much the last straw. Am seriously considering blowing my QFF points on a final first class jaunt to Paris, and then jumping ship to CX or SQ.
One other point - Am happy to say that the dodgy relationship between QF and CX at top level hasn't filtered down to the customer level. Their service has been excellent every time I've contacted them to arrange free exit row seats, kids meals on a FF flight, even though it was booked through Qantas. Very helpful.


User currently offlinehh65man From Australia, joined Feb 2013, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (5 months 2 days ago) and read 764 times:
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Shouldn't air miles be awarded by how uncomfortable your seat is? The more pain the more miles awarded.... I mean makes total sense to me... 

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