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AY Is Ready To Consolidate.  
User currently offlinesailas From Finland, joined Jul 2007, 285 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9235 times:

http://www.helsinkitimes.fi/business...-finnair-ready-to-consolidate.html

“Companies such as Finnair have become a dying breed of air transport. It is clear that consolidations will continue in Europe,” Heinemann stated, encouraging shareholders to consider the alternative ownership options available to Finnair.

Frankly, i have been waiting for this for a long time, AY's days have been long counted, and as AY is so badly managed i think change is good.

I think on the negative side HEL really needs alot of money injected into it, and AY needs more airplanes. I find it ridiculous to how many routes AY has compared to how many planes they have. They have none to spare, if a technical problem came.

So potential buyers? EY? QR? TK? CX? SU?

This is the end
Beautiful friend?


Airlines been on: AY, LX, SR, OS, SK, KF, EZY, FR, BA, LH, AF, TG, DC, FC, TK, KL, BT, CX, QR
33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHELFAN From Finland, joined Aug 2011, 53 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9086 times:

I think AY would complement IAG network quite well. OW co-operation has already set the frame work

User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3253 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 8933 times:

Knowing very little of the financials of either carrier, I'd say from a purely aesthetic position SK & AY seem a right fit.


AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlinesailas From Finland, joined Jul 2007, 285 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8863 times:

I wouldn't think AY and SK would be a logical merger, and one i would definitely be against, they would surely just eat up the planes and forget HEL. Or they could place their own wide bodies ftom Stockholm to HEL 
Quoting HELFAN (Reply 1):

It might but as we know IAG wouldn't acquire AY. ME i say.



Airlines been on: AY, LX, SR, OS, SK, KF, EZY, FR, BA, LH, AF, TG, DC, FC, TK, KL, BT, CX, QR
User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4328 posts, RR: 35
Reply 4, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8798 times:

Quoting sailas (Thread starter):
Frankly, i have been waiting for this for a long time, AY's days have been long counted, and as AY is so badly managed i think change is good.

Why is AY badly managed? I think they are doing pretty well with their Asia focussed hub. With the high wages and costs in Finland they are just about as good as they can be in the current environment with LCCs etc. Just see how much worse their neighbors LOT and SAS are doing.



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5110 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8781 times:

Quoting HELFAN (Reply 1):


I think AY would complement IAG network quite well. OW co-operation has already set the frame work

I hope that is the outcome, maybe with some financial stake by Qatar in the mix.



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offline777klm From China, joined Apr 2005, 530 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8720 times:

Quoting sailas (Thread starter):
EY? QR? TK? CX? SU?

In the EU, foreign ownership is, as a general rule limited to 49%. Foreign means non-EU in this case, with a number of exceptions including Norway, Switzerland and Iceland. This rule limits the possibilities for airlines like the ME3, TK, CX and SU to acquire a controlling interest. A minor interest is still possible though like the stake EY has in AB.

In addition I think the ME3 airlines would not be a right fit as they (the ME3) would loose traffic at their ME hubs to the HEL hub, which is geographically better located for travellers between most of Asia and Europe.

What about Norwegian? It will give them great access to both various Asian markets as well as the Finnish market.

  



Next flight: AMS-PEK
User currently offlinesmbukas From Lithuania, joined Feb 2009, 203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8682 times:

Quoting sailas (Thread starter):
Frankly, i have been waiting for this for a long time, AY's days have been long counted, and as AY is so badly managed i think change is good.

I do not agree with that. I think, Finnair is one of the best managed airlines in Europe in last few years. This is a miracle they were able to survive with small home market and even though, they are making profits in a such competitive market. LCCs are eating everything intra-Europe, MEB3 are occupating all Europe to Asia market, TK putting enormous investments and Big wolfs from Europe (IAG, LH, AF/KLM) are trying to rule the long-hauls from Europe. And in such environment, Finnair were able to create great hub. Main reason is perfect management.


User currently offlinesailas From Finland, joined Jul 2007, 285 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8669 times:

Im sure something will work out. But to give you an idea of AY fleet management a captain once said if AY had one plane, with one full cabin crew, AY would still employ 200 people in the office to run everything else.

What AY really needs is a big investment. More planes and a bigger better airport.



Airlines been on: AY, LX, SR, OS, SK, KF, EZY, FR, BA, LH, AF, TG, DC, FC, TK, KL, BT, CX, QR
User currently offlinesmbukas From Lithuania, joined Feb 2009, 203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8616 times:

Quoting sailas (Reply 8):
What AY really needs is a big investment. More planes and a bigger better airport.

I do not think fast growth would be good idea for AY. There are now successful hub in Europe without good O-D demand. All successful hubs has a very strong local demand - LHR, CDG, AMS, MUC, FRA, MAD, CPH, IST, etc. DOH and AUH are only few exceptions in different environment then Europe.
Finland is small market and Helsinki is not big city. I suggest AY should keep 40-50% Finland traffic with other being connecting. Otherwise they could suffer a lot of low yields. They should grow with local demand and play in niche markets further.


User currently offlinesailas From Finland, joined Jul 2007, 285 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 8567 times:

Quoting smbukas (Reply 9):

Actually most passengers from AYs longhaul flights are connecting. Local demand to make an airport varies. DXB relies on connecting people.



Airlines been on: AY, LX, SR, OS, SK, KF, EZY, FR, BA, LH, AF, TG, DC, FC, TK, KL, BT, CX, QR
User currently offlineAirDFW From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 193 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 8368 times:

I think JL or IAG is a natural fit for AY. First for Europe bound and second for secondary cities in Asia.

User currently offlinesailas From Finland, joined Jul 2007, 285 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8174 times:

I was thinking about JL, but i don't think they would be buying at the moment?


Airlines been on: AY, LX, SR, OS, SK, KF, EZY, FR, BA, LH, AF, TG, DC, FC, TK, KL, BT, CX, QR
User currently offlinefinnishway From Finland, joined Jul 2012, 309 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7767 times:

I wouldn't be surprised if LH would be interested in Finnair. They have money and experience from buying competing airlines. EY wouldn't be surprise either, since they seem to invest in Europe very much.

User currently offlineGCT64 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 1398 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7707 times:

EY et al may find owning stakes in EU airlines is about to get more difficult:
EU Investigates (non-EU) Shareholdings In Airlines (by GCT64 Mar 28 2014 in Civil Aviation)



Flown in: A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A388,BA11,BU31,B190, B461,B462,(..51 types..),VC10,WESX
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25358 posts, RR: 49
Reply 15, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7617 times:

It was in the news this week at Finnair would look to further staff cuts - approx 680 in total - 140 in administrative and support staff along with about 540 cabin crew.

Finnair still must reduce cost and is looking to do things like increase outsourcing of flight crew services on both its long- and short-haul

Finnair threatens to cut 680 jobs
http://www.helsinkitimes.fi/business...air-threatens-to-cut-680-jobs.html

Finnair Plans to Take Alternative Measures to Reach Cost Savings
http://www.businesswire.com/news/hom...es-Reach-Cost-Savings#.UzWdGvldWgU

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinecivetfive From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7140 times:

Quoting finnishway (Reply 13):

IMO, the value of AY to LH would be the connecting flows US-Baltic/Russia, not the Asia traffic. And its not obvious to me that it would be worth the trouble. LH doesn't need the Asian network, as it already has its own extensive one and close cooperation with NH.

I think the more likely outcome, from both a synergies and regulatory level, would be for IAG to take a stake in AY and better coordinate Asian connections. IAG doesn't have the strength as *A in Europe-Asia and it better allows IAG to offer the schedules and service it needs.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8372 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6726 times:
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Britis Airways and IAG, this is up Willie Walsh's alley. Imagine if Finair expanded to the USA the way it flies to Asia.

User currently offlineMIflyer12 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 1024 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5765 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 17):
Britis Airways and IAG, this is up Willie Walsh's alley. Imagine if Finair expanded to the USA the way it flies to Asia.

Oh, the money they would lose! There just aren't that many Americans with a burning desire to go to Helsinki. HEL has little efficient-distance advantage as a connecting point for Americans outside of little-trafficed north-eastern Europe airports (and MOW). Connections through LHR and FRA are fine and build upon heavy destination traffic.


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5110 posts, RR: 21
Reply 19, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5444 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 17):


Britis Airways and IAG, this is up Willie Walsh's alley. Imagine if Finair expanded to the USA the way it flies to Asia.

AY would enhance the Asian network for IAG. It wouldn't even enhance the Euro network much as HEL is lousy hub for intra-Europe. As far as North America...ummmmm, just what they have now.



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25358 posts, RR: 49
Reply 20, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5365 times:

AY at one time had a much larger US and Canada network having tried many cities (off the top of my head LAX, SFO, SEA, YMX, MIA, BOS), but such service have come and gone. I don't see much change in opportunities to the Americas outside of seasonal leisure tourist routes for AY.
HEL can work for Europe-Asia traffic, but it does not do much from the Americas except to Russia, Baltics.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently onlineSASMD82 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 771 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5023 times:
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Quoting sailas (Reply 3):
I wouldn't think AY and SK would be a logical merge

Finland is no Scandinavia as some people sometimes forget. So time for either OnWorld or Syteam to interfere. A merger between AY and SK is not logical but BA or KL/AF may have some interest in further share with them.

Interesting. I thought that their strategy worked. On the other hand, their fleet is small....


User currently offlineAADFWFlyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2013, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4885 times:
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Perfect time for Willie Walsh- now the head of OneWorld Alliance - to get involved, and bring Finnair into the fold of the IAG
structure, as Finnair already a part of OneWorld .


User currently offlineDTWPurserBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 1629 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4817 times:

I should think it would be a good fit with LH, SK or KL. The days of independent national carriers like AY are fading fast. Maybe a consolidation of AY with OS and LO into one of the larger carriers. The costs of maintaining a totally independent airline have to be astronomical.


Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
User currently offlineLHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 815 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (5 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4326 times:

The answer has to be IAG.

AY is already part of the joint transatlantic business and the BA/JL joint business between Europe and Japan. IAG is also not prohibited by ownership restrictions.


25 HELyes : They are getting 11 (+8) A350-900s starting next year, being the first European for A350. Interesting to see how that develops now. Yes Denmark, Norw
26 sailas : Yes, but at the same time they will get rid of some of their A340s at the begining i think the 2 air france once which are nearly 20 years old? I thi
27 Global2 : About eight or ten years ago I flew AY a couple times from Europe to BOM and BKK. I found their on board service (bus. class) to be excellent, and bac
28 copenhagenboy : Well, I think AY and SK would make perfect sense, but I doubt it will be the outcome. Keep HEL as the big/main hub to Asia, and from HEL to North Amer
29 HELFAN : Ten years ago AY did have excellent service also in economy. Unfortunately it has been deteriorating ever since. Don't know about the business class
30 copenhagenboy : Well, as it is often the case it depends on where you are flying from. AY is often the cheapest choise to BKK and other Asian destinations, if you ar
31 sailas : If IAG or any other airline took up on this offer what would happen? Increased cost efficiency? More planes?
32 HELyes : India hasn't been easy for AY, first they axed BOM and have also cut flights to DEL, low yields apparently. The JFK-HEL-India routings look good on t
33 harim : For long haul, it is a challenge for European carriers to compete with EY, QR, Turkish, Emirates etc - i.e. counties where having an international air
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