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Really Why Did BA Get Rid Of Their 'tails'?  
User currently offlineBraniff Place From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 1125 posts, RR: 3
Posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3876 times:

Well, why did BA get rid of this great arty tails and replace them with a non-original DL like UK flag.
Can someone give me thereal reason?

51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIkarus From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 3524 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3737 times:

Because the world tails sucked, no one liked them, and the British did not identify with an airline sporting flower arrangements on their tails. That kind of stuff belongs in marriages, thanksgiving and funeral ceremonies, not on a/c tails.....

Basically, it was a failed image exercise that damaged the brand name recognition. That's why. If that reason isn't real enough, try "because they were (mostly) ugly"

Regards

Ikarus


User currently offlineTransSwede From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1000 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3704 times:

I thought those custom tails were great!  Smile Sure, some weren't that great, but others were just beautiful IMO. Like this one:

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Colin K. Work



The current wavy flag is so booooring... (Those fake highlights on the flag is just a old as someone still using drop shadows in web design)

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Frank Schaefer



Now if you want brand name recognition, the old livery was classic, much better. Sure, the body could have used a small update, but why get rid of that wonderful tail?

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Frank Schaefer



User currently offlineJaSpiKE From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2008, 1 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3693 times:

They were good!!

It had something to do with Margaret Thatcher not liking them. One of the reasons why they went.


User currently offlineETA Unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2077 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3674 times:

There was also a huge ideological conflict within the company. For example, BA cabin crew were being asked to make salary sacrifices while the cost of maintaining the tail artwork was reported to cost BA an additional 10 million pounds a year in maintenance. One would have thought a Braniff-like exercise was not a smart move.

Also, as one UK newspaper correctly pointed out, if BA management has such a problem with the concept of their airline being a British carrier, maybe they should just drop the first word from the company's title and rebrand the airline "Airways".


User currently offlineMr.BA From Singapore, joined Sep 2000, 3423 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3674 times:

Ikarus: I think you are wrong. There are people who dislike the world tails, but there are a lot of people who like the world tails too.

alvin



Boeing747 万岁!
User currently offlineG-ELDG From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2001, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3642 times:

ITS ACTUALY BECAUSE NATS TOLD THEM TO CHANGE THE TAILS AS THEY COULD NOT BE RECOGNISED BY OTHER AIRLINES WHILST IN FLIGHT.

User currently offlineRyanair From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 654 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3643 times:

I heard NATS were very unhappy about them.

Commercially it just misjudged the situation very badly, the British and American markets were less than impressed and that's an awful lot of their customers

Personally I think the new colours are pretty crap.


User currently offlineCarmy From Singapore, joined Oct 2001, 627 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3627 times:

don't know about you guys but i sure was one huge fan of the old livery. was shocked when they first came out with the new tails, i thought they were SOOOO un-British and seemed to look like an airline going through some identity crisis. Would love to see the old livery come back. And the new Union Jack on the tail looks exactly like the Thai flag. it wouldn't look too out of place on a TG plane i'd think.

and yes, i sure agree with Baroness Thatcher. As she said, the new colours are most disgraceful.


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13213 posts, RR: 77
Reply 9, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3618 times:

Previous posts have highlighted many reasons for getting rid of those silly tails.
Another was that BA's vital business market, especially in the US, were very negative. Many commented that it made the airline look like a cheap charter outfit.
Most staff hated them, and hated the CEO Robert Alying who brought them in.
So stopping further tails was his attempt to boost morale, his successor, Rod Eddington, is getting rid of them altogether.


User currently offlineTransSwede From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1000 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3607 times:

Ok, I can see the arguments for getting rid of the flowers - But why pick such an awful uninspired new livery?

IMO there's only one airline livery that has had a flag on its tail and looked good - and that's the "DeltaFlot" livery.


User currently offlineRichcandy From UK - England, joined Aug 2001, 723 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3592 times:

This is only my opinion and I am sure lots of you do not agree. The dark blue with the crest was starting to look a bit old and need up dating and I think they should have worked on this. The world images did not give the airline a sense of nationality, and tried to be
something for everyone.

If you are british and fly BA I would think that you want the airline to be a symbol of the UK. If you are not british and flying on BA you are doing so because you want to be in britian before you leave your own country.

In short if you are american and flying from LAX to LHR
you do not want to fly on a aircraft with a african tail.

Rich


User currently offlineFlyboy80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1878 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3591 times:

Yo i t makes me mad they took them away. It would be nnice to promote induviduality around the world becuase they fly to so many countries. Now it looks alot like delta's tail. There are to many color schemes that look alike. I am gettin used to SWA's new color but it still needs some work. Im just glad SWA didnt like paint there jets gray and put a hart with wings on the tail (the United States doesnt need anymore gray or blue planes). Regaurds- email or post.

User currently offlineTrident From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 484 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3585 times:

Has everybody forgotten BA's ORIGINAL tail colours - used between 1974 and 1984? They were identical to the colours now worn. The only difference in the new design is the "wavy" aspect and the highlight. The original scheme was partly based on the last BEA tail colour of a half Union Flag (used between 1968 and 1974).

Also, the current tail scheme was devised as one of the "World Images" but for use on Concorde only.

As I've mentioned before, the huge flaw in the World Images programme (or Utopia to give it its correct title) was its "fuzzy" branding. If you are creating a strong, identifiable image for a product, whether it's a can of beans or an airline, dozens of different images only cause confusion amongst your potential customers. The whole sorry mess was only one aspect of a confused style of leadership associated with Mr Ayling which helped to alienate his cutomers, his workforce and the British public and served to severely undermine what had been a well focussed, successful airline.


User currently offlineVAMBRIDGE From South Africa, joined Apr 2001, 80 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3580 times:

I think the new flag livery is the best yet!
I love it on the 777
Cheers
FP


User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2501 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3571 times:

The world images were great !!! How can you say that the "animal and trees" , Poland , South Africa , Celtic, Dutch are awful...

At least they some images could have been kept for franchise partners ...

For example :

Comair , the South African tail...
British Mediterranean , The Russian tail
Loganair , Scotland... etc...

That could have been great because these franchises are not BA ...

The new tail is boring and was quite happy when it was only used for concordes ... Now , it only suites B744



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16285 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3566 times:

Richcandy nailed it on the head.

BA thought it would appeal to a wider audience by re-branding as a 'world airline'. But research after showed that people flew BA in part because of its British-ness.....which implies, amongst other things, efficiency, reliability, professionalism/businesslike manner, British hospitality, etc.

The bread-and-butter of BA is the business traveller...they want professionalism and predictability...not wild multi-colour art designs. Another failed marketing experiment.....

Althought, the "English Rose" and "Benyhone Tartan" schemes are great! They're very British, their red/blue matches the rest of the fleet...hope they keep these!

Neil/Toronto



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13742 posts, RR: 19
Reply 17, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3560 times:

I like it now. Half "ethnic whatever" and half "british design". A nice mixture.

Apparently, I read in Flight International, that engineers weren't happy cuz they couldn't find cracks and other normal faults that you find in tails.



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineParisien From France, joined Dec 2000, 823 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3553 times:

It all has to do with concept rather than symbol recognition...the concept of the world art should be associated with this airline, so it does not matter what art exactly is painted on the tail or the origin of the art. lets admit it that there are positive associations as well as negative ones to British....they want to indicate that they are a world airline (not simply british, but more than that) and want to get rid of the negative aspects of the stereotypes (stuffiness, for example). 60 percent of BA's passangers are from outside Britain at that time, so a more worldly concept they thought would be more appropriate (though that 40 percent of the pax are Brits was also used as the argument to go the flag design). British Airways was aiming to be recognized as simply BA (thus the word British not mentioned anymore) assocaited with quality, worldliness...
unfortunately it did not stick. Why ? I doubt you could simply blame Mrs Thatcher (and her hand bag) for it...after all Mrs Thatcher does not like a lot of things that are not clearly British !
I think that design are great....they should maintain may be 40 and 60 percent split between the flag and the art tails designs.....
They are certainly eye catching ....and even if people have not see a particular design the concept idea should lead them to conclude...Hey thats a BA plane !


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16285 posts, RR: 56
Reply 19, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3551 times:

You are correct Parisien, there are negative aspects to the 'British identity' such as stuffiness etc...that was probably what the World Tails meant to overcome. Overall, it seems that the positive aspects of British-ness were more valued by customers.

As for Margaret Thatcher....she has no direct involvement with BA....she just wrapped a hanky around a 747 model w a World Tail....it was highly publicized.

Singapore_Air...the initial intent was to leave about 50% of the fleet in World Tails...now all BA aircraft will sport the 'Union Flag' except for a couple of 744's that visit Taipei which will remain in 'English Rose'.

Regards
Neil/Toronto



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineBraniff Place From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 1125 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3518 times:

I cant believe some of you, i thought the BA tails were so innovative and interesting, i kinda thought of it as a flying art gallery. beautiful. like looking out the window of a termainal and criticising the tails it was great!!! It gave the airline a contempo arty look to it but that was destroyed by you conservatives who want airlines to keep a dowdy uninteresting image of blue and grey which i know i dont want that for the future.

User currently offlineThomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3958 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3510 times:

I loved the tails and most that I knew loved the tails. That said many of the British flying public did not love those tails. I believe read in a local paper that according to a poll taken during the late 90s, that some 40% of the British flying public absoultley hated the tails and the reason for their contempt was that they did not reflect Britian.

Again, I love them! They were imaginetive, creative and certainly eye-cathching! I would try to get to IAH as often as I could just to see which tail would arrive on a given day. Some 70% of the time it was the Nalainji Dreaming, but 'Wings', Colum, Martha and Emily Msambo and others would drop on in as well.

Like a few of the other comments concerning their selection of the 'Docklands' design as their standard livery, well, it does absouletly nothing for me. I would have much preferred BA to return to the Landor design, that preceeded the 'Utopia' tails. Now that says Britain!

Thomas



"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offlineMark_D. From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 1447 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3503 times:

Thomasphoto60--Again, I love them!

Hear hear, I think they're--ALL-- great too! But oh well, most BA customers and Britons just weren`t ready for 'em, notwithstanding the rather domineering "World's Favourite Airline" that I guess the tails were supposed to be celebratin' along with. They've a right to change it back. And yeah I prefer the original livery too, if they gotta go back.

Anyway, still have to commend BA, for goin' through with the idea for as long as they all stuck around for. Long live the World Tails, even if their memory!

(Fine Chris Sheldon mini-article and sampling, about this:

http://airlinesgate.free.fr/articles/preview.htm


somma the original press releases..

http://www.euran.com/art&BritishAirways.htm

and of course this is fairly nice too Big grin

http://www.avsim.com/atco/baworld.htm


User currently offlineCP97-1B From Canada, joined Jul 2001, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3469 times:

I didnt really care either way about the Worl Tails, I can live without them...

The only one I really liked was Chelsea Rose, I think that one is very nice...

Just my two cents.

Cheers,

CP97-1B


User currently offlineDasa From East Timor, joined Aug 2001, 760 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3460 times:

I loved the World Tails, especially Colum, Benyhone, Chelsea Rose and Delftblue Daybreak.... I think BA should have kept them on at least some of their fleet, as they are a good change from the usual boring BA colours.

25 Post contains images Braniff Place : I would like to tak this time to personally thank all or you for voting for this post and being a part of it thank you for answering my question and m
26 Donder10 : I know some1 who works in the paint shop for BA and he said that the stenzels for painting the planes were complex.Anyway,British Airways is a BRITISH
27 Post contains images Stratofish : Well, I loved the world tails, all of them, unfortunately I only flew on the 'Sydney2000' 757 once. But the point is even when they decided to get a n
28 Carmy : exactly! BA is a BRITISH airline. do they really find it so shameful to be associated with Britain?
29 9v-spk : I like most of the tails. Especially the Hong Kong "Rendezvous" one! Best Regards
30 Boeing757fan : Because, Margaret had a hissy fit. She hated the tails.
31 Boeing757fan : I liked them. It was cool seing somthing different. I wish UAL would do something like that.
32 Donder10 : Maggie Thatcher merely reflected the views of the majority of the British people
33 GDB : It wasn't Maggie, or even the staff hating them. As previously stated, high-yield pax. hated them, and as Donder10 said, they were complex to apply, a
34 Donder10 : Even the plane spotters at LHR dont like the flags!!
35 Singapore_Air : Magaret Thatcher is a bitch who wants to control the present and future. I say be rid of her. She has no wit, "I was coming down to the conference, an
36 Post contains images Airsicknessbag : Well, I have to say I like most of the world tails quite a lot, from an aesthetical point of view. However, I believe a firm and especially an airline
37 Donder10 : Singapore_Air-its advertising.BA are trying to advertise a particualr brand and this case a British one.Also the Tories are 'losing' because Labour fo
38 Post contains images Carmy : again. does BA find it so embarassing to be part of Great Britain? The World Tails had no identity, a foreigner could not identify with the brand beca
39 VS744 : probably because Virgin Atlantic took ridiculed them publicly by using the Union Jack and publicly slamming them for getting rid of the patriotic symb
40 DCA-ROCguy : BA surveyed their business and first class pax, the big spenders, and found out that they didn't like the World Tails. All those fuddy-duddy old white
41 Post contains images RJ777 : I heard it had something to do with Prime Ministers....
42 WunalaDreaming : Just though I would remind you all that the union Flag Tail was around before the Delta version. - which IMO is a plagerism.
43 Trident : Many posts here mention a desire to bring back the "old" scheme. Which "old" scheme do they mean? The 1974-84 one or the Landor scheme (1984 - 1997)?
44 Post contains links and images Mark_D. : Trident--Which "old" scheme do they mean? Well me I mean the Landor livery Click for large versionPhoto © Craig Murray since the 'first' one stil
45 VgnAtl747 : TransSwede --The current wavy flag is so booooring... (Those fake highlights on the flag is just a old as someone still using drop shadows in web desi
46 TransSwede : What do I know about web design? More than you think - But that was not my point, and an completely irrelevant to what I was saying. (Anyone remotely
47 2000first : I think the world tails were a vast improvement on their old scheme! I thioght the old colurs were some of the most boring of any airline! On a rainy
48 GDB : The Union Flag tail replacing the hated 'World Images' differs from the design on the Concordes. As for the '200% British' Landor livery, Landor were
49 Flpuck6 : I didn't think "regular" passengers (non-interested aviation pax) actually paid attention to the colors of the airplane they were flying, just the nam
50 Heavymetal : Loved the old Landor scheme. Hated World Images.... Then I gave World Images a try and kinda understood what BA was trying to do. BA is one of many Br
51 Greg : Hard to beat the old pearl grey scheme..even with the cigarette logo on the tail. Like the world images too..well, at least about half of them. Chelse
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