9v-spk From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2001, 1646 posts, RR: 6 Reply 3, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2031 times:
Wonderful Question.
Actually, somebody has asked me this question before.
You see, there's this China & Taiwan problem, about Taiwan's nationality.As you know, China always claims that Taiwan is a part of China, while Taiwan has never mentioned the word China, as Taiwan is not a part of China (That's what Taiwanese Say.)
So forget history, talk back about the question.It's because due to some very very spectacular reasons, airlines flying to Taiwan and China MUST be SEPERATE airlines.British Asia Airways is an example.The planes were used to fly to Taiwan, while British Airways would fly to Hong Kong and China.Also, there's Japan Asia Airways, KLM Asia, Qantas Asia, Swissair asia.All these planes have a different logo, but actually it's just the same company.
I'm not sure if this complies to nower days China and Taiwan's aviation rules, but that's the truth.Seperate Companies, Seperate Airlines (Looks like, actually it's the same airline).
Hkg_clk From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 999 posts, RR: 2 Reply 4, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2006 times:
But do these airlines really only fly planes painted in the 'Asia' liveries to Taiwan? Or do they set up such a company just so that they can say they've got this special company?
See my homepage for a comprehensive guide to spotting and photography at HKG
Air Taiwan From Australia, joined Dec 1999, 1516 posts, RR: 4 Reply 7, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1987 times:
Okay 9v-spk was somewhat right about the situation about Taiwan and the mainland China. The only thing is, it was the mainland Chinese government who ordered foreign airlines to set up separate entities for flights to Taiwan.
So airlines like set up subsidiaries like Australia Asia Airlines (Qantas, code IM), Swissair Asia (Swissair, code SR), KLM Asia (KLM, code KL), Japan Asia Airways (JAL, code EG), and others use their existing subsidiary: Condor (Lufthansa), ANK Air Nippon (ANA All Nippon Airways) to operate into Taiwan.
Interesting thing is, the mainland Chinese government originally requested the Japanese govt not to allow Taiwanese aircrafts to land in the same airport, but until now the only city that you can't see both Taiwanese and mainland Chinese aircraft is Tokyo. China Airlines (of Taiwan) and EVA Airways both operate out of Haneda Airport in Tokyo, which is used for domestic traffic only. Surprisingly this gave CI and BR an advantage to airlines flying into Narita (Tokyo International) because Haneda (Domestic) was much closer to Tokyo downtown...
Anyways, back to the topic. Qantas begun using its own aircraft on the Taipei route in 1996 and dumped the lame Australia Asia Airlines. Also the majority of airlines flying into Taiwan simply ignored the mainland Chinese govt and operated its own aircraft into Taiwan -- like UA, NW, SQ, MH, CX, TG and others...
Air Taiwan From Australia, joined Dec 1999, 1516 posts, RR: 4 Reply 10, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1954 times:
Well this "requirement" by the mainland Chinese govt is really just to satisfy their ego to sorta say "look, we have the power to isolate Taiwan from others"... yes it doesn't achieve much...
But rumours has it that the mainland aviation authorities are working with their Taiwanese counterparts to work out a way to establish direct air links between Taiwan and the mainland. But the catch? Taiwan must recognise that it's a domestic route....
Jiml1126 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1930 times:
European airlines that flies to Taiwan will always flies the a/c with "Asia" title on it. BA/KLM has 2-3 744 in "Asia" titles, in case one of them needs maintainance, so they can use another 744 also with "asia" title to fly to Taiwan.
By the way, Qantas used to fly Taipei under "Australia Asia Airlines", however, this airline no longer exists and Qantas flies to Taipei under "Qantas" title.
Air Taiwan From Australia, joined Dec 1999, 1516 posts, RR: 4 Reply 12, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1881 times:
Actually Jim1126, BAasia does a lot of times fly into Taiwan using BA aircrafts. And a lot of times the BA Asia planes are flown into other destinations like LA and Miami. Its just doesn't make a difference... at all...
In the case of Qantas... the Oz govt just didn't care about the rediculous, childish requests from the mainland Chinese govt...
Jiml1126 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1859 times:
Air Taiwan, the reason why BA use its own aircraft lots of times to Taipei is because there's no British flags anymore because they switched to those "Exotic" colour (Forgot what are they called).
However, BA has decided that to apply the "Union Jack" (aka British Flag) colour to all of their aircraft once again, you won't be able to BA using its own aircraft to TPE anymore. 3 of BA Asia's 744 are in Chelsea Rose colour and other one.
9v-spk From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2001, 1646 posts, RR: 6 Reply 16, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1836 times:
Actually Paradox, there's nothing to do with aviation.It's because of the Singaporean government and Chinese and Taiwan government.I might not be as sure as Singaporeans, but i know that Singapoe governments have had good relationship between China and Taiwan governments.I guess it was a long long time when Singapore's Senior Prime Minister Lee Kwong Yiu (Right spelling?) was able to satisfy both governments, especially Chinese government and could mantain both countires relationship.That's why China didn't really mind, and allowed SQ to fly its own airline to Taiwan.
I guess it was quite lucky for Singapore Airlines.Afterall, who wants an airline to have 2 different logos and different names!
Airways1 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 554 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1816 times:
I flew to Taipei on a British Asia Airways 747-400. The flight is via Hong Kong, so these planes are also often seen in Hong Kong.
All the things inside the aircraft (eg. safety card, service items) have the normal British Airways branding, it is only the name painted on the outside of the aircraft which is different.
However, separate British Asia Airways timetables are printed:
Lj From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4169 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1816 times:
KLM has 5 planes flying in KLM Asia c/s. Needles to say you won't see these aircraft in Shanghai and Beijing. The biggest difference between an KLM Asia and a usual KLM plane is the fact ther's no crown on the KLM Asia c/s.
Regards
Laurens
BTW isn't there also a "rule" that at any given time it's not allowed that both a CI and a CA aircraft may be present at the airport?
Air Taiwan From Australia, joined Dec 1999, 1516 posts, RR: 4 Reply 21, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1805 times:
Lj:
I've explained that in my first reply to this topic... please refer to it...
9v-spk and Paradox,
There are so many other airlines who get to fly to Taiwan in there own name, namely Thai Airways, Malaysia Airlines, Cathay Pacific, Qantas, Air New Zealand, Ansett Australia(used to), Royal Brunei, Garuda and many others... so Singapore Airlines was not the only one... Do you think the US govt would allow the nonsense of the mainland chinese govt and order UA and NW and others from N.America to set up a subsidiary just for them? I don't think so!
Air Taiwan From Australia, joined Dec 1999, 1516 posts, RR: 4 Reply 22, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1793 times:
Jim you're only theoretically right... it was the whole purpose that aircrafts carrying European flags wouldn't be flying into Taiwan that "Asia" airlines were established.
But realistically, their own aircrafts WILL fly to Taiwan whenever the "asia" planes were not available... I mean, if all the "asia" planes all happen to be occupied for whatever reasons... do they just stop flying into Taiwan?? Of course not...
Paradox From Russia, joined May 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1800 times:
I was going to post a message about that, because in the database I saw several pictures of airlines that were in Taiwan with their original name until I saw your message. Thanks for clearing it up.
I didn't realise that Cathay Pacific was also one of airlines that flew into Taiwan with its original name...and with me being a CX fan, I just wasn't paying attention!!
Air Taiwan From Australia, joined Dec 1999, 1516 posts, RR: 4 Reply 24, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 1788 times:
No probs Paradox. Actually CX have about 12 DAILY flights from Hong Kong to Taipei... so there you go. Also they used to fly to Kaohsiung (2nd city in Taiwan) before Dragonair took over the route in 1994/95.
Jimmy
25 9v-spk: I was absoutely right.Singapore Airlines was the ONLY one to get PERMISSION to fly its OWN aircraft.And that's the truth.The U.S airlines didn't get t
27 Air Taiwan: Oh okay I get you~ So Singapore Airlines was the only airline who actually APPLIED for permission to fly to Taiwan under its own name... and they got
28 BA747-436: I flew BAA B747-436 G-CIVB from LHR-LAX about 5 years ago. Don't quite understand what it was doing on this route, but it was nice to get the chance t
29 Yyz717: I actually do think the BAA tails provided the impetus to the World Tails idea! AC also flies to both Red China and ROC with its own aircraft (as did
31 Airsicknessbag: Just an addition about the Lufthansa/Condor flight: Lufthansa just painted a 747-430M in Condor colours, which was 100% owned by LH. It was no lease,
32 Paradox: Yeah, Cathay is eager to start flying into China again as it would contribute a hell of a lot to their revenue. China is such a huge market that it wo
33 Jiml1126: At the political side, European Countries are the only countries that are really "weak" when facing pressures from China. (That's what I heard few yea
34 Air Taiwan: Paradox-- Yes I think you're right, it is quite childish for the mainland to put this political restriction to the airlines... and about CX flying int
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Thanks for clearing it up. 
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