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Boeing 747-100: Some Have 3 Windows; Some Have 10?  
User currently offlineLax From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 2290 posts, RR: 3
Posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1091 times:

Can anybody explain how to tell for sure the difference between a B747-100 with 10 upper-deck windows and a B742?

These are both 741's.......

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Alastair T. Gardiner



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Photo © Alastair T. Gardiner



And here we have a 742, which appears identical to the 741 above that has more than 3 upper-deck windows..........

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Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Konstantin von Wedelstaedt



And now, to further confuse everybody, below I've found pictures showing what are labelled as 747-200's, but with only THREE upper windows! (Didn't think anything but the -100's had the 3-window configuration.) (Mis-labelled possibly??)

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Photo © Eduard Marmet



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Photo © Eduard Marmet



Any thoughts??



28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16245 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 943 times:

All early-model 747's (whether -100s or -200s, althought mostly -200s) were built with 3 windows...as the intent was for the upper decks to be used exclusively as a lounge. Most customers realized the revenue potential of seating pax in the upper deck and the windows became standard.

Neil/Toronto



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16245 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 925 times:

Oops! I meant most early 747's were -100s, not -200s.

/Neil





Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineLax From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 2290 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 909 times:

In reviewing the above pictures of my original post I thought of this.........

I see that most (if not all) B741's are equipped with P&W JT9D engines. While the 742 pictured above has GE's (I think; or RR's. Anyway, a NON-P&W type.)

Is this possibly the only way to tell the -100 from the -200's??

Just a thought.

(However.....Take note that both of the 742's with just 3 windows have P&W engines. I'm inclined to think these two pics are mislabelled, and should say B741's. I'm probably wrong, being no expert on the subject.)


User currently offlineLax From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 2290 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 856 times:

Thank You Neil.......

Sounds reasonable.

Did ANY early 741's have anything but P&W engines?


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16245 posts, RR: 56
Reply 5, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 848 times:

All early 747's had PW engines. The first GE 747 flew in 73 and was delivered to KLM.

Neil/Toronto



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7448 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 831 times:

I believe that the differnace between a 741 and a 742 is that a -100 has a hump where the upper deck ends and blends into the top. I also think that most late -100's had the 10-window option.


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineCeilidh From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 781 times:

To make matters even more confusing, some -200 aircraft have seven windows on the upper deck (I think LH aircraft have that - I certainly recall at least one BCal aircraft that had this configuration).

User currently offlineLeftseat86 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 761 times:

The ten window option was for all the later -100s. What's worse is that there are -200s with the -300 upper deck! And how can you distinguish a -400D (domestic, used by ANA/JAL) from a -300???

User currently offline9v-spk From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2001, 1646 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 749 times:

For the B744Ds and B743, i'll distinguish between the engines and wings, especially the engines.
But anyways, only JAL and ANA offers the B744Ds, and there's a difference between their B744Ds and B743!So that won't be a problem!
Best Regards


User currently offline747Specialist From Switzerland, joined Apr 2001, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 717 times:

Always a lot of confusion with the 3 windows on the upper deck, this might help:

All 747s from line #1 to #146 were produced with 3 windows (=3 holes) on the upper deck.
All 747s from line #147 ( Delivered : July 30, 1971, VH-EBA for Qantas) were produced with 10 holes in the upper deck. Now, some earlier 747s were later reconfigured with more windows (Sabena, United, British Airways,...) while some latter examples were delivered with 3 windows and the remaining holes plugged with metal (TWA, Panam,...), this for better fleet comonalty between older and newer 747s.

If you have questions on a specific 747, just ask me and I will give you the 'windows status'.

Regards
747Specialist


User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7363 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 700 times:
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Neil

What about the BA 747s? G-AWNA (23rd built)delivered April 1970 - presumably this had RR engines..?

David/MAN


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 684 times:

BA's 741s had PW engines and initially had 3 windows.

User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7448 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 671 times:

The differance between a 743 and a 744D is the lack of static dischargers on the end of the wings.
747-300:

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Photo © Frank Zahorik



744Domestic:

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Photo © Edward Lai



Now what's the external differance between a -200SUD and a 300?????



'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7363 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 652 times:
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Thanks 777236ER

Very strange how then went for the RR engines on subsequent 747s. Presumably this was nationalistic pride on having British engines for British Airways?!?!

David/MAN


User currently offlineNed Kelly From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 407 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 659 times:

To confuse matters slightly more, (although this would be a one off I beleive) a 747-100 that was built with 3 windows on top, converted to 10 on top, and then converted back to only 3 on top.
The 1st picture taken back in 1984 & the second was taken in 1999. I even had an e-mail from someone saying that my picture must be fake because of the 10 windows on top. Unfortuately I couldn't find a picture of N7470 pre 1984.

Click for large version
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Photo © John Kelly



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Photo © Chris Coduto



Ned.


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 650 times:

Actually, i think the RR engines had better fuel burn stats and a lot greater thrust than the underpowered JT9Ds on the -100. Plus, MX was easier, seen as through they'd only have to send the engine off to Derby.

Regards.

BTW, how's MAN doing? I haven't been there in ages  Smile When are you going to overtake Gatwick?!  Laugh out loud


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16245 posts, RR: 56
Reply 17, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 607 times:

Here's some more confusion. Sort of.

Boeing offered a re-modelled 747-100B in the early '80's. The only customer was Saudia. They chose the RR engine. These are the only -100s (although not 'real' -100s) with other than PW engines.

Differentiating betw the 743 & 744D is easy.....most obvious diff is the engines. The 744D has 744-style engine nacelles. Differentiating betw the 742SUD & 743 is more difficult....basically can only be done by reg #. Only 2 airlines had their 742s converted to 743 standard.....KLM & UTA.

Neil/Toronto



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineJiml1126 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 582 times:

Actually it's customer's demand.

When Boeing delivers first B747 to JAL, there are only 3 windows on the uppder deck. However, JAL is not happy about it. So they ask Boeing to "open" few more windows on the upper deck for them. JAL also asked Boeing to put "Japan Airlines" title in Japanese Kanji.


User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7448 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 564 times:

I saw the original 747 last Oct at Boeing field. The extra 'windows' were only black stickers applied by Boeing to make it look like a -200 for some reason or other. You can see this when you look at it up close.

Scott



'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineLax From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 2290 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 523 times:

Thanks for all your input here.

Interesting.....

Lots of stuff here to make an avid spotter go nuts!!

How about yet another "oddball" Boeing 747 to further add to the confusion.......

Here's a really unusual one.....a 747-100 w/SUD.........

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Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Edward Lai



Also ran across this older pic of a cool-looking JAL Cargo 741. Had never seen this livery before. It's listed as a B747-146(SF).........

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Photo © Yosuke Kinoshita



Now all we need is for someone to dig up a 747SP with just 3 upper holes!! (Don't think that one exists though......)
However, I did find a 747SP with just 8 upper windows. It appears only Qantas operated the SP with the 8-window upper deck, instead of the usual 10. It looks like the 10 holes are there, but Qantas, for some reason, has plugged up 2 of the window holes.......

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Photo © Sunil Gupta




User currently offlineLax From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 2290 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 454 times:

Any more SP airlines with just 8 uppers......?