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ATL Air Traffic Control "Joke" Forces Go Around  
User currently offlineDLX737200 From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1930 posts, RR: 20
Posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 25867 times:

http://www.11alive.com/videos/news/local/2014/06/13/10499109/

On June 11 at 1645 local, Delta 630, a 777 from DTW was on final for Runway 27L. The controller makes a joke by telling the plane to "Go Around" before quickly admitting that he's just joking and that the flight was cleared to land. Delta 630 did not take the joke and went around. The FAA is investigating.

I hate how the news story claims the joke "diverted" the plane. Great journalism, as always! The video in the news article cut out what I think was an important piece of information from the pilot so I included the actual LiveATC.net audio clip here:

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/ka...L-Twr-9R-27L-Jun-11-2014-2030Z.mp3
Fast forward to around 15:30.

So what do you all think? Seemed like information that might not have been necessary at that moment from the pilot but I'm sure the controller should've bit his tongue too. I have talked to this controller many times and he's a very friendly and professional gentleman. I think he was just having a little too much fun that day. I hope he doesn't get in trouble.

124 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinea321luke From United States of America, joined Aug 2013, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 25720 times:

I'm sure he's a great guy, but telling a pilot on final approach to "go around" as a joke shouldn't happen IMHO.


Planes, Trains, and Cars... Heaven :)
User currently onlinemoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2345 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 25594 times:

How does a controller "joke" about giving a go around command to an aircraft on final?


KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlineazjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3949 posts, RR: 28
Reply 3, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 25231 times:

Wow... while I get the humor, it was really bad timing and choice of words. It's not uncommon to alert ATC of gate assignments etc, to assist in ground planning, so I don't fault the pilots whatsoever. In a busy environment such as the landing phase, you never expect to hear the words "go around" unless it's issued by ATC or a decision by one of the pilots and pilots certainly don't expect ATC to joke around with the matter.

[Edited 2014-06-13 18:22:49]

User currently offlinetrnswrld From United States of America, joined May 1999, 948 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 25086 times:

Man that's too bad the controller got stepped on as he was saying just kidding in the same transmission. So it's not like he literally said go around then stopped the transmission. The pilot immediately keyed back up and blocked him while he was still talking.

Moose135,
Did you even listen to the tapes? Answer your own question, it's simple how it happened. I'm not saying that it's ok for a controller to joke, but had the pilot not keyed up while the controller was still talking this wouldn't have happened.

Well whatever, I personally thought the controller sounded very professional and was doing a great job. Like already said it was just an unfortunate thing. No one will get in trouble especially when they hear the tapes.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7931 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 24903 times:

Quoting trnswrld (Reply 4):
Did you even listen to the tapes? Answer your own question, it's simple how it happened. I'm not saying that it's ok for a controller to joke, but had the pilot not keyed up while the controller was still talking this wouldn't have happened.

And that's exactly why you don't make jokes like that. If I hear "go around" from tower it's not gonna take very long at all for me to hit TOGA while advancing throttles forward and command flaps to 15, royally screwing over the approach. Furthermore, after hearing "go around" and then just kidding or whatever, I'd have to be very certain I understood that the controller was joking. If there is any doubt, going around is the safer bet. I'm sure I could recover the approach if I realized it was really a joke fast enough but the approach might be somewhat off and my concentration would be shaken. Not the best thing for final approach

Quoting trnswrld (Reply 4):
Well whatever, I personally thought the controller sounded very professional and was doing a great job. Like already said it was just an unfortunate thing. No one will get in trouble especially when they hear the tapes.

I'm sure he is a professional but this was a big lapse in judgement. I'm not the FAA but personally, I don't think he should get fired (as long as this is an isolated incident) but he should get reprimanded somehow. It may look like a harmless joke but you can see what can happen--the flight went around wasting thousands of dollars and there was confusion on the most critical phase of flight

I doubt they won't do anything to him; hopefully he'll be able to take his punishment and continue his job



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4974 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 24714 times:

Bad timing to be joking with an aircraft about to touchdown. Definitely bad timing and wasn't really a smart move.

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinetrnswrld From United States of America, joined May 1999, 948 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 24691 times:

DeltaMD90,
I absolutely agree with you on everything, like I said it's just too bad that the pilot literally instantly keyed up in the instant that it takes a person to begin the next word. Obviously not the pilots fault and all the controllers, but it's just an unfortunate event that caused no harm to anyone, just wasted money. I highly doubt anything will happen to the controller with the exception of maybe a short talk from a supervisor and the union. I bet that controller won't do that again though.

EK413
As far as timing goes, I wouldn't necessarily say the plane was about to touch down. In the U.S planes are typically atleast a few miles out when they first call tower and get landing clearance.

[Edited 2014-06-13 19:07:16]

[Edited 2014-06-13 19:08:34]

User currently onlinewjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5261 posts, RR: 23
Reply 8, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 24679 times:

I don't see how this is much different than the idiots that either jokingly or because they are indignant about something use the word "bomb" in a sentence at the airport. They deserve what they get, and what they usually get is a lot of inconvenience, or worse.

I personally don't think that anybody listening to that tape would instantly make the connection between not having a gate and being sent around, just like the crew wouldn't.

It's a command, and you obey it, because coming unexpectedly like that it may be because he sees something emergent that he doesn't have time to explain. It was a totally-stupid, unprofessional, and potentially-harmful "joke". The man's judgment is clearly impaired. It's like saying "stop" to an aircraft while it's rolling down the runway. No excuse, and, frankly, I was more sympathetic to his situation before I actually listened to the tape.

When it comes to gender issue training in the workplace, instructors typically pound over and over and over that "I was just joking" isn't an excuse, and that "jokes" get people in more trouble in the workplace than just about anything else.

Anyone in a position of significant responsibility has to be extremely-careful when joking about something. A red flag should pop up in their head, and they should think about it for longer than a split-second before opening their mouths. And if they fail to do so, they need to be made to sit down for a while.

This guy, no matter how good a controller he is or how nice a guy he is, needs a time out to think about finding a new paradigm in which to operate. And he may want to think about how lucky he is that DL doesn't send him a bill for the extra fuel. I don't think a quick talking to is in order. I think that standing tall before the Man, and being thoroughly dressed-down, is in order.

At a minimum, he should be relieved of duty at ATL, sent for retraining, and then put somewhere for a while where he can't do as much harm.

PS Once it's on the local news, you can be sure that they won't quietly give him a slap on the wrist.

[Edited 2014-06-13 19:19:44]

User currently onlinemoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2345 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 24661 times:

Quoting trnswrld (Reply 4):
Did you even listen to the tapes? Answer your own question, it's simple how it happened. I'm not saying that it's ok for a controller to joke, but had the pilot not keyed up while the controller was still talking this wouldn't have happened.

Yes, I listened to the tape. And I clearly heard the controller say "Go around". Doesn't matter what happened after that. If I'm flying, and I hear the controller, or the guy in the other seat, say "go around" I'm pushing up the power and worrying about why later. That's why it doesn't matter that the controller's subsequent "just kidding" was blocked - you don't say that unless you mean it.



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3045 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 24664 times:

Quoting trnswrld (Reply 4):

Right, so it's the pilot's fault for keying the mike to acknowledge the go around. Unreal...


User currently offlineatcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1217 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 24656 times:

This is an unfortunate situation and a moment of poor judgement for the controller. I'd have a hard time believing he'd get canned -- it was stupid, but he didn't compromise safety. He might spend a little time on the beach and may have some additional training, but given the cost of sending a 772 around for no reason, that's probably a fair punishment. I'm sure this is a mistake he won't make again.

I will say that I'm rather surprised this even got news coverage. It must have been a very slow news day.


User currently offlinetrnswrld From United States of America, joined May 1999, 948 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 24658 times:

Quoting catiii (Reply 10):
Right, so it's the pilot's fault for keying the mike to acknowledge the go around. Unreal...

Ummm no, I clearly stated who's at fault here (the controller). I said its unfortunate that the pilot keyed up so quickly that the next word didn't even roll off the controllers tongue.


User currently onlinewjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5261 posts, RR: 23
Reply 13, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 24657 times:

Quoting trnswrld (Reply 12):
I said its unfortunate that the pilot keyed up so quickly that the next word didn't even roll off the controllers tongue.

Actually, he didn't say that he was kidding right away. I count 2 seconds. In that time, you've already called Go Around in the cockpit and started advancing the throttles, folding up the gear, etc.

Just stupid, stupid, stupid.

Just look at this at 2:40 and after. The power starts coming up within a second of the go around call, and the gear is on the way up in 2 seconds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0fVI4l8KQM&feature=kp

Stupid.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4974 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 24653 times:

Quoting trnswrld (Reply 7):
As far as timing goes, I wouldn't necessarily say the plane was about to touch down. In the U.S planes are typically atleast a few miles out when they first call tower and get landing clearance.

So I take its okay to joke with a pilot during the most crucial part of flight, landing?

Regardless, I personally believe it was uncalled for joke...

My 0.02c

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently onlineAcey From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 1049 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 24654 times:

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 13):
Just look at this at 2:40 and after. The power starts coming up within a second of the go around call, and the gear is on the way up in 2 seconds.

Maybe not necessarily the best example since they are extremely short final and there's already a guy on the runway, and they're expecting to go around. For everything to be folding and be at TOGA in DL 630's case is optimistic, no?



If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
User currently onlinewjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5261 posts, RR: 23
Reply 16, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 24657 times:

Quoting Acey (Reply 15):
For everything to be folding and be at TOGA in DL 630's case is optimistic, no?

I guarantee you the captain has already called for the go-around and the FO is starting his duties.


User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3045 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 24657 times:

Quoting trnswrld (Reply 12):

No, you clearly implied that some blame belonged to the pilots. From your post:

"Did you even listen to the tapes? Answer your own question, it's simple how it happened. I'm not saying that it's ok for a controller to joke, but had the pilot not keyed up while the controller was still talking this wouldn't have happened."

Read the last part again: "...had the pilot not keyed up while the controller was still talking this wouldn't have happened."

As I said earlier, unreal...

[Edited 2014-06-13 22:31:48]

User currently offlineskywaymanaz From United States of America, joined May 2012, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 24664 times:

If the controller had said afterward, even if it was blocked, "Delta 630 disregard, continue approach." this wouldn't be a story. I suppose it is remotely, very remotely, possible the controller either saw a conflict and asked the plane to go around or lost his focus of the big picture. Then to correct the situation he choose his words extremely poorly telling the crew to ignore the previous command. Now as many above have correctly pointed out that may have been too late for an alert crew swiftly and correctly responding to the go around to recover the approach. The difference in the wording though is between an abundance of caution and Johnny from Airplane! messing with you for no good reason. I don't think firing him is appropriate for an isolated incident but there are some other airports in the Atlanta metro area he can work for now.

User currently offlinepeterjohns From Germany, joined Jan 2009, 207 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 24662 times:

What I would like to know is-
How did this become public? We have Go Arounds not on a daily basis - but at least two a week I would estimate, due to multiple reasons. It is usually no biggie, the flight just is feeded to another approach (if the wx is o.k.)
Nothing that would have to be reported by controller nor pilot.


User currently offlineSocalApproach From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 24660 times:

Quoting peterjohns (Reply 19):
What I would like to know is-
How did this become public?

I was wondering that too for some odd reason. Who is initiating the investigation to get the FAA involved. Does DL want the FAA to foot the fuel bill for the unnecessary go around? Unless the pilots complained about it.....   


User currently onlineAcey From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 1049 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 24658 times:

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 16):
I guarantee you the captain has already called for the go-around and the FO is starting his duties.

I didn't say they weren't.



If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
User currently offlineatcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1217 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 24670 times:

Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 20):
Unless the pilots complained about it.....

I guarantee that's what happened to trigger the FAA investigation. The pilot got pissed and called the supe or he went to his chief pilot. It still doesn't explain how it went public though. I suppose the pilot or the airline could have gone to the media, but they wouldn't stand to gain anything from doing that. Maybe it could be like the JFK incident with the kid on frequency that was discovered by LiveATC listeners? People were so shocked by that...as if it didn't used to happen all the time  

I guess some in the media are looking for any opportunity to show the FAA is unsafe with their seemingly commonplace sensationalist approach. This should have been one of those stupid situations where the controller spends a couple of days on the beach, everybody picks on him for a while, and it becomes a dumb anecdote that's retold from time to time. It was stupid, but it wasn't dangerous. Reporting it in the media gives everyday passengers the perception that this was a dangerous action. Back in the day, controllers at a TRACON that shall remain nameless regularly played tackle football while working traffic. That was probably pretty damn dangerous. Those days are over, but people need to realize that if this is as bad as it gets, then the flying public is in pretty good shape.

The pilot has every right to be pissed, as does the airline, but this isn't something that should have gone public in my opinion.


User currently offlineskygirl1990 From New Zealand, joined Jun 2010, 123 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 24667 times:

I'm in complete agreement with the pilots actions, regardless of whether it was 'clearly a joke' or not. I would absolutely imagine as soon as the words 'go-around' were said TOGA procedures were in effect, thereby an aborted approach would be underway regardless. There is also no guarantee that the pilots would have heard or completely understood that it was 'a joke'

I'm just wondering what the reactions would have been if a pilot were to say "Mayday Mayday Mayday, nah just kidding". It should be no different.



x Jessie x
User currently offlinesturmovik From India, joined May 2007, 511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 24667 times:

While the joke itself was poorly timed, I wouldn't fault his comedic timing 


'What's it doing now?'
25 lhrnue : In the environment I'm working in (which is in aviation but not related to any fight operations) we would treat this event as a non conformance, which
26 dtw2hyd : Is it a standard protocol for pilot to comment about gate assignment on final. Pilot should have told controller long before. I think controller just
27 777Jet : I can hear a bit of 'stress' in the controller's voice when issuing the climb instructions after the pilot said ''you told us to go around''... He kne
28 NBGSkyGod : I kind of agree that this controller needs a talking to. I have joked plenty with pilots, sometimes even joking about sending them around for my own a
29 trnswrld : I listened to the tapes again and I stand corrected. The controller clearly does un-key his mic and pause for a second or two. So my apologies. I was
30 migair54 : After a Go-Around pilots need to fill a form usually, I'm not sure if in Delta they do. No joking here, Go Around intruction is Go Around, no questio
31 Cubsrule : Judging from the professional part of the controller's response, I'd say it's normal for ATL. Obviously, the pilots have to alert somebody that they
32 bennett123 : I notice that people say this was not a safety issue. I would have thought that the risk, (which clearly are very low) would be increased if you add t
33 RomeoBravo : Not a good time to joke. I wonder how much a go-around costs DL in fuel? Maybe 1000$?
34 DeltaMD90 : I disagree. It might have. Go arounds are designed to be safe, but the controller saying it was a joke and to continue could have been dangerous... T
35 SPREE34 : That^^^^^^^right there. Fire the clown. He can find work in the circus or try his hand at stand up comedy in night clubs. Says a lot about the FAA's
36 dtw2hyd : Easier said than done. We should have invested in advanced air traffic management technology like third world countries are doing. Didn't do that. We
37 peterjohns : That I find hard to believe. It would be very safety comprimising, as when in doubt , the pilots might want to force a landing in order to avert the
38 Post contains images skywaymanaz : As a pilot I for one want it that way. Most of the controllers I've talked to are professional and do their job well. That said let's just say a few
39 azjubilee : Most airlines require an incident report of some sort when a go around is performed. Some airlines even require a maintenance log write up to record
40 Acey : ATC does paperwork for a missed approach in Canada, and it is reported.
41 peterjohns : I must check this out if it is true for us as well. I work ACC and haven´t been in the TWR for some years. But I believe we don´t fill out any form
42 SPREE34 : Completely irrelevant. All ATC comms are recorded. Phone and radio. Let's ask the Delta crew their opinion on that.
43 azjubilee : Paperwork is generally the last thing on our minds when making decisions that affect the safety of flight. It's silly to assume any crew would ignore
44 EGPH : Very poor show from the controller there. I'm no pilot, and sorry for armchair piloting here but I'd imagine most pilots, as soon as they hear the wor
45 2175301 : I work in a different industry (Nuclear Power); and some things are never ever acceptable to say to the control operators in any form of a joke. While
46 Post contains images SPREE34 : You are.
47 peterjohns : This is definately not true. If you have to fear any kind of inquisition or reprimand in your work, you will try to avoid it. Fact. So if you initiat
48 Mir : It's not a mistake. It's a bad decision. A mistake would be them honestly thinking that they had proper separation but then it turned out that they d
49 migair54 : Paperwork is minimun, it's just a sheet where you state incidence (go around, bird strike, runway incursion.. thing like this) obviously in this case
50 JAGflyer : It is not approach or tower's problem to worry about gate assignments. That's strictly up to the airline's operations centre, or the ground/apron cont
51 type-rated : Send the fuel bill to the controller for the go around and then see how funny he finds that! If you are flying an airplane and are told to go around,
52 Post contains images peterjohns : Come on-- A Go Around can´t possibly be THAT expensive...
53 RubberJungle : Never in my life have I seen one of these mythical 'slow news' days, nor can I imagine how, if the topic is so unworthy, it's managed to generate ove
54 IMissPiedmont : I agree, the controller is responsible for the bill that Delta will present to the FAA, I don't want my tax money used on this one. Also, two weeks o
55 type-rated : Probably at least around $10,000 USD. Jet engines are not very efficient at low levels while developing take off thrust.
56 peterjohns : So? What do you want to tell me?? Still Smiling!!!
57 RDUDDJI : Bad judgement on the part of the controller. While I'm sure he didn't mean any harm (and it *was* funny), it was wrong and unacceptable. Actually, I t
58 Post contains images SPREE34 : I have to admit to being a bit surprised at the ammout of people here who think this isn't deadly serious. Then it occured to me, this is an aviation
59 peterjohns : Cool it guys. Obviously some of the contributants here are not in the buisness Fact is- "deadly serious" no it wasn´t at any time dead serious as a
60 SPREE34 : I chose those words as a descriptor for the work and it's requirements, not the conditions of the go around maneuver. A workplace atmosphere that per
61 trnswrld : Geezus are you guys f'ing serious? This thread is just getting annoying now. People saying he should be fired, demoted, off for a few weeks without p
62 SPREE34 : I'm guessing you're not on the NATCA Professional Standards Board.
63 DeltaMD90 : I was really disheartened to see your occupation as ATC. You of all people should know the implications of making jokes like this and having a plane
64 trnswrld : I take my job very seriously and like to consider myself very good at what I do. For the fifth time I am agreeing with you guys. This controller messe
65 PGNCS : Terrible decision from the controller. Common occurrance for people flying big planes that can clog up ground ops to advise ATC they don't have a gat
66 catiii : The fact of the matter is the controller screwed up. Period. End of story. He cost the airline additional monies with his stupid joke. He should be p
67 type-rated : You have to do something to let him know that professional standards will be upheld and funny business such as this will not be tolerated. Especially
68 F9Animal : After listening to the tape, I think the controller made a poor choice. I just don't find it funny in any way. The crew did exactly as instructed, and
69 Post contains links badgervor : Just wanted to add this article that says it took the plane an hour and a half to sort it out while circling. I find that very hard to believe, but th
70 Post contains links Acey : This spotter caught the incident on video. The audio is not synced to his footage, as the gear is halfway up at the go around call. But it shows how f
71 wjcandee : Or wasn't. As the spotter points out, it's a big deal to watch from the ground because of the substantial forces brought to bear to accomplish it.
72 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : Oh brother. My thoughts on this incident are hopefully clear, but a "scary situation?" "Filled with passengers!" They're making it sound like the pla
73 CX Flyboy : While it isn't dangerous, many pilots (especially long haul pilots) go years without doing a missed approach in real life and even when they do, it i
74 Post contains links Acey : Here's a video of an AC 77L pulling up on extremely short final at YYZ. I think the media would absolutely lose their marbles if I sent them the link
75 Post contains images 777Jet : Given that controllers pay tax he is also paying his own wage - and the wages of others This story has been mentioned on Fox & CNN for the last t
76 wjcandee : Well, it shows how smoothly the crew handles it. However, I find it interesting also because assuming that the ATC is synced to the video, you can se
77 wjcandee : Interesting how this story still has legs... So, because I saw it on news here in NYC, I was thinking about it today. And I was thinking that the prob
78 DeltaMD90 : Exactly... besides questioning the controllers judgment to make a joke, I question how he waited so long. Anything slower than "Delta630GoAroundJustK
79 747megatop : Why not? A passenger saying "There is a bomb; no, i was just kidding" in an airport or in the air can get thrown in jail for tha joke; so, why should
80 trnswrld : 747megatop, Lol. great let's fire him and send him a $10,000 fuel bill. Ok, you do realize that this guy didn't actually commit a crime right? He made
81 Post contains images wjcandee : Trnsworld -- people are just expressing their opinions. They may differ from yours. No amount of explanation on your part is likely to change their mi
82 dtw2hyd : Amazing this story still has legs. There were 4000+ near miss incidents in 2012, none got this much attention or call for action.
83 747megatop : Before asking me what i realize; you obviously don't realize that an ATC is no place for jokes. Go take a hike. You obviously don't know the differen
84 catiii : Using a similar example, the JFK controller who was suspended and reassigned that let his kids direct air traffic at JFK, what crime did he commit? C
85 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : He is probably a good controller and all, just made a boneheaded mistake. Of course he should receive more than just a slap on the wrist... it's got
86 trnswrld : I do know the difference and I consider the issue at hand a mistake that involved a joke. Had this controller even thought about for one second what
87 bennett123 : Clearly there are different views here. It will be interesting to see what further developments occur. It would be a pity if the Moderators step in an
88 Post contains images SPREE34 : That has already been debunked, and you don't seem to get the concept of "chain of safety". I gather from your comments you are not a flyer, or if so
89 Post contains links BravoEchoNov : Video of the "Go-around" via Matt Cochran www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMBRDLA8V7k
90 Post contains links peterinlisbon : Maybe when now when a pilot is told to "go around" they should check that ATC is not joking before taking any action. Probably a control tower is not
91 Post contains links dtw2hyd : http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/12/travel/aircraft-near-misses/ At least some of those are unintended consequences of a controller's actions. My point same
92 DeltaMD90 : If that was his immediate reflex then he probably shouldn't be a controller (no, I'm serious.) I don't know what it takes to be a controller (I know
93 wjcandee : That's a fair point. And it oddly dovetails with this comment: Hey, if it's a "systemwide problem", then what happens to this guy will be a wake-up c
94 dtw2hyd : Our ATC system is antiquated, don't judge by fancy display terminals. We need $45 Billion to fix it, won't be ready before 2027, until then we are de
95 ATCguy : Well thank god that we have pilots up there that never make mistakes and can bail ATC out when we do. How about rather than saying we're stuck with h
96 trnswrld : I guess up until now I was pretty confident that a go-around situation was somewhat routine for you airline pilots. SPREE, you are correct im not a fl
97 PGNCS : The JFK controllers deserve all the scorn they are given; two wrongs do not make a right. You ARE right that there is managerial tolerance of it thou
98 PGNCS : Irrelevant. Comparing operational errors (which I agree are very serious) to a deliberate joke with negative consequences is a red herring. We train
99 Post contains images AR385 : A lot of people in this site are more than enthusiasts. His choice. He can go find a job somewhere else. Where jokes like that won´t have the same c
100 jhooper : A pilot will instinctively execute a go-around within milliseconds of being commanded by ATC to do so. It really is too late by the time he said "just
101 Post contains links 747megatop : I called only one particular post as crap, not your contributions. You equated a mistake to a joke; moreover you hoped that i would get fired from my
102 747megatop : A genuine mistake by a pilot or controller is different. The fix may be upgrading antiquated systems or retraining or improving maintenance procedure
103 NBGSkyGod : Here is where I take issue with this thread. First the controller will not get fired, for several reasons: 1. NATCA will come to is aide and negotiate
104 trnswrld : You keep saying deliberate for whatever reason. Do you think this guy went into work that day with full intentions of making an aircraft have to go-a
105 DeltaMD90 : Of course not. But he did fully intend to say "go around" as a joke even if he never intended the plane to actually go around.... He meant to say tho
106 dtw2hyd : So, small talk from pilot over ATC frequency is perfectly acceptable, but a response to small talk should be punished to the maximum. It is still not
107 moose135 : No, if he went into work that day intending to do that, that would be "premeditated". But unless he has some medical condition that caused him to blu
108 DeltaMD90 : Joking about go arounds is not small talk. A pilot declaring an emergency, waiting a few seconds, and saying JKLOL is just as bad The pilot is equall
109 SPREE34 : Deflecting from the issue. What's the measure of that "safest ATC system"? What happened in ATL is a warning sign. You don't keep a safe system safe
110 catiii : An "accident" is clearing Delta to land on 27R instead of 27L. You don't "accidentally" tell an airplane to go around.
111 wjcandee : Perhaps the controllers can relate better if we give an example of the tables being turned. Suppose a pilot said, "Tower, Delta 190 heavy short final
112 DeltaMD90 : I'm guessing the reaction would NOT be "well, the pilots didn't go to work intending to shut down half the airport and having the fire trucks roll up
113 747megatop : His choice of making that joke was deliberate, including the choice of words. I don't see how it could have been any other way.
114 747megatop : Not surprising coming from professionals in a unionized world looking out for each other.
115 traindoc : Returning from EWR to SAT on UA last year I was listening to channel 9. As we were on approach ATC gave climb out instructions instead of landing inst
116 AR385 : I wonder: 1) How often do you hear another Dr. in your ER say "Code Blue, room XXX...Just Kidding!!" specially when your ER is full? 2) What would be
117 Mir : He did not let his kids direct air traffic at JFK, he let them talk to the planes. There's a huge difference. The kids were under careful supervision
118 BruceSmith : There are countless other phrases the controller could have used in response, e.g. why don't you try Miami instead, you think your parking problems ar
119 catiii : His kids were issuing instructions. They were directing planes. Whether they were repeating his instructions or not wasnt the case.
120 Post contains images trnswrld : Awesome, and you said my posts were crap.
121 tarmacphotos : This is the only factor at play here. Any non-union job, the guy would have been fired by the end of his shift.
122 747megatop : Only one particular post and not posts. See reply 101.
123 2175301 : I disagree as there are non-union companies out there that do in fact have incremental responses to issues in the work place. However, I do think tha
124 747megatop : Non union or not; the question here is what should be the action taken for someone who unnecessarily puts a plane carrying 200+ passengers and crew i
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