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FT: Boeing Considering to Cancel 717!  
User currently offlineEg777er From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 1844 posts, RR: 13
Posted (14 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3809 times:

from FT.com

Boeing signals further cuts in airliner production
By Mark Odell
Published: October 18 2001 14:25 | Last Updated: October 18 2001 14:47

Boeing, the world's largest commercial jet maker, on Thursday signalled a further reduction in its airliner production next year and said it was considering shutting down one of its product lines.

The announcement came as the group said third quarter net profits rose 7 per cent to $650m from $609m, for the same quarter last year. Revenues in the three months to the end of September climbed to $13.7bn, a rise of 15 per cent.

The Chicago-based aerospace and defence group said it now expected to deliver between 350 and 400 aircraft in 2002, lowering expectations further from a statement made just over a week after the attacks on the US.

In its warning last month Boeing estimated that deliveries for next year could fall to the "low 400s" down from previous forecasts of 510 to 520.

Boeing said on Thursday it was also considering closing down production of its 717 programme, the last remaining McDonnell Douglas aircraft following Boeing's takeover of that company in 1997.

The move will come as little surprise as the company has struggled to find new orders for the 100-seater short-to-medium range jet.

Boeing has, however, again raised its delivery rate for this year to 522 aircraft, after indicating last month it could fall to 500 aircraft, down from previous estimates of 538.

At the time, Boeing also said that the expected collapse in demand for new aircraft could force it to lay off as many as 30,000 workers at its commercial airplanes unit in Seattle by the end of next year.

The first wave of 12,000 workers were told last week they would lose their jobs by mid-December.

Boeing said it had taken a $100m exceptional charge in the third quarter to cover the first round of severance costs.

Further cuts in production rates were widely expected as many analysts believed Boeing's initial response was largely prepared prior to the the suicide hijackings. The company was already expected to cut delivery targets and staff, prior to September 11, as the airline industry had already been moving into recession during the first half of the year.

Boeing warned that "the commercial airplane market is in a period of unusual uncertainty" and said the downward trend would continue into 2003.

Some analysts believe further production cuts will follow and are forecasting that the number of new aircraft built next year could halve from pre-September 11 levels.

The slump in air travel has led airlines to cut routes, ground parts of their fleets and cancel or defer orders for new aircraft. So far some 200,000 jobs have gone in the global civil aviation industry, including those at major suppliers.

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently offlineTeej13 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (14 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3284 times:

Crummy.. shame to hear.

User currently offlineAnsafa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (14 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3200 times:

I hope they don't stop production of the 717. They have a plant here in Toronto where they make the wings of that plane, and if they shut down that plant at least 800 people will loose there jobs.

User currently offlineHeavymetal From Ireland, joined May 2015, 25 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (14 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3189 times:

Not surprising.

Well, at least we get to see the hot rods they did build zippin around the skies for years to come. That's a small comfort.

The sadness of 9/11 rolls on.....

User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13756 posts, RR: 18
Reply 4, posted (14 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3161 times:

I liked that 717. It was good. It's a shame really, although I do see where the 717 and 737 do overlap, so it probably shouldn't be too much of a surprise.

Oh well, how our industry is faltering  Sad

Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineFlagshipAZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3419 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (14 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3113 times:

No decision has been made yet regarding the termination of the 717 program. Boeing still has 56 outstanding orders for the type yet to be delivered. Remember folks,...it ain't over until the fat lady sings. Regards.

"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
User currently offlineOscar2 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (14 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3107 times:

I here her warming up. If it happens can we say NW and 318. Cool

User currently offlineN80NA From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (14 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3065 times:

don't write off the B717 just yet,
this was taken off the Boeing site today :

Boeing Reports Strong Third Quarter Results, $0.88 EPS,
Excluding Non-Recurring Item; Affirms Importance Of
Transformation Strategy

Commercial Airplanes is working closely with customers to complete scheduled deliveries in the near term
and rephase deliveries in the intermediate term, taking into consideration reduced airline capacity
requirements and contractual agreements. Commercial Airplanes continues to evaluate the production and
delivery schedules of its airplane programs, which retain continuing customer support. Consequently,
Commercial Airplanes is well positioned to effectively manage through the downturn. However,
Commercial Airplanes is carefully assessing the impact of market conditions on the 717 program, which
remains the one production line in question. Commercial Airplanes is evaluating a range of alternatives,
including stopping production. While no decision has been made, a decision to stop production on the 717
program would likely result in material non-recurring charges.

User currently offlineAirbus380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (14 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3054 times:

I got to fly on in August on HA OGG-HNL. It was just like a souped up DC-9-50 with a glass cockpit. It was a great flight though and I loved the aircraft.

User currently offline757man From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 370 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (14 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3037 times:

It's a shame to hear this news, the 717 is a nice little aircraft.

Just remember though, Boeing were thinking about shutting 737 production down in the early 1970s, so you never know what is around the corner.

With the overcapacity the airline industry currently has, I thought the 717 may actually sell a few more units. It could be used on routes where the 737 and A320 are considered too big, then again, we're then heading into the territory of the CRJ and ERJ-145.

We shall have to wait and see what happens to the 717.

User currently offlineVirginA340 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (14 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2994 times:

Boeing still has to finish up the Air Tran order and what's left of the TWA order. I think some private aircraft leasing companies placed orders as well. I hope NWA makes a good order for those 717s. It would bring back great memories of the DC-9. The A318 from the outside doesn't impress me. It looks like a fattened 737. The 717 is the last major jetliner to have rear engines and a T tail. The 727 and DC-9 along with the MD-80 and MD-90 are long gone from production but still flying. By them time I get old they'll be sitting in Tuscon or Marana.

User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (14 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2950 times:

I think the key here is considering.

"Boeing said on Thursday it was also considering closing down production of its 717 programme, the last remaining McDonnell Douglas aircraft following Boeing's takeover of that company in 1997."

"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
User currently offlineIkarus From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 3524 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (14 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2925 times:

Another misleading thread header. If Boeing say they MIGHT shut down a line, that is not yet the confirmed closure!

So until they announce anything official, I wait and see.



User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined exactly 17 years ago today! , 12435 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (14 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2897 times:

B757300, you beat me to it. Why must people use lies and exaggerations as topics for their threads?

In addition to FT using the word "considering" not "canceling," I would add that until Boeing says it, it's just a rumor. (Admittedly, FT gets a little more credance than other sources though.)

Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlinePSU_DTW_SCE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (14 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2740 times:

In either case, go Hawaiian Airlines!!!!

User currently offlineLowfareair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (14 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2727 times:

AirTran would be VERY pissed off if they shut down production. I bet that no matter what the economics for their routes, they would definitely turn to Airbus if it happened.

User currently offlineScannerson From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (14 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2702 times:

First Oscar2: Can u say crapy rip off and under powerd? (a318)

Boeing would be smarter than to loose the airtran contract. They would switch them to another aircraft. At least I hope. Also you will see a scaled back proudcution before they close the line.


User currently offlineTWA717_200 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (14 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2696 times:


User currently offlineJmacias34 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 380 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (14 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2674 times:

Exactly what is AA and every other MD-8X operator planning on replacing them with when they become old? B738-739??? A 717 with about 150-165 seats would work idealy.

User currently offlineThe747Man From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (14 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2673 times:


Thanks for a misleading thread, it said Boeing was considering to cancel the 717 program.

When you say "Boeing Cancels 717!!", that's not the case.

Perhaps a little too excited?????????  Big thumbs up

User currently offlinePSU_DTW_SCE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (14 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2596 times:

Uh, 150-165 seats isn't the 717 market area. That is the prime 737 NG market. The 717 was meant to be smaller than the 737 family, not compete with it. I doubt you'll see Boing cancel the 717, probably cut way back on production until things pick up. The current time there appears to be a drought in the market for 100 seat market because airlines already have planes for those routes, but they will need to be retired sometime in the future and Boeing will need to have a product to replace it.

User currently offlineTullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1806 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (14 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2578 times:

The more talk there is about the cancellation of the program, the more likely it is to happen. Airlines and lease companies are very nervous about buying an airframe that is likely to be cancelled due to the huge effect such a decision would have on the residual value of the aircraft.

User currently offlineNDSchu777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 419 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (14 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2570 times:

that would be really bad for midwest express. this year they just put in a big order for the 717 to replace their aging fleet. is boeing still obligated to fill all the orders for the plane, or could they breach they're order contracts and just cancel? this would be more bad luck for the struggling airline. they were the launch customer for the dornier 328 rj, but they also decided to cancel production of that plane and left midex hanging. another bad thing with the 717 getting canceled would mean midex's service would change pretty drastically. there would be no more aircraft in production with the fuselage width of the dc-9/md-88. this has worked out very nicely for midex to make all-first class aircraft with 4 across seating profitable. if there was no 717, then they'd be forced to use an A320 or 737, and would need a 5 or 6 across seating arangement to be profitable with those aircraft. lets just hope that whatever happens, midex will survive it.

User currently offlineHighliner2 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 697 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (14 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2553 times:

Skyway operates the 328JET, not Midex. And the 328JET was not cancelled, the 428JET was, and yes, Skyway was the launch customer for the 428JET before its cancellation.

Go Cubs!
User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (14 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2517 times:

They MUST keep the B717, it's a great aircraft: small, silent, clean. And it looks DIFFERENT from the common B737 and A32X designs flying around in masses.
And I don't want to see those pumped up CRJs and ERJs in that category only!

Damn, NWA should order it to replace the DC-9. I don't see an alternative as the A318 is too heavy on short hauls.
It seems the aircraft is underestimated. Nobody wants it, but the carriers that ordered it are all impressed. And the passengers too, in the air and on the ground...

NWA, please act and make it possible for us to enjoy the B717 for a long time!

Keep the 717

25 TransSwede : People, people... A *possible* (and likely) 717 shutdown would not be the end of the world for the 717 customers. OF COURSE Boeing would finish buildi
26 Flyinryan99 : AirTran unfortunately just can't go out and change to back to the 737. The reason we got 717s is because they are in line with our old DC 9 - 30s. Our
27 Travatl : Hey Ryan Just a note...our DC9 guys that go to the 717 actually go through a 4-week course in LGB, then head to the simulators - there is actually mor
28 LGB Photos : And this is a suprise to everyone? God could have seen this coming. Boeing does not want this airplane. Too bad, its a great aircraft. Stephen
29 Lsjef : An appropriate heading would have been "Boeing may cancel 717". In the interest of making this forum useful to its participants, may we all please try
30 Flyinryan99 : I stand corrected, thanks Travis..I knew most of the systems were different....especially since it is all but 30 years newer..lol Even the systems fro
31 Post contains links and images TWA717_200 : Click for large versionPhoto © AirNikon Click for large versionPhoto © Michael Carter Click for large versionPhoto © Chris Sheldon Clic
32 Gregg : I doubt if Boeing will get rid of the 717. Too many MD_80 operators out there that would want a common type of a/c with fewer seats. Also I think mos
33 RayChuang : Actually, I think Boeing is not likely going to completely shut down the 717-200 production line. They may not produce new planes for a while, but giv
34 Cedarjet : Forget the stuff about the 717 line closing. The weirdest part of that news item are the words: "Chicago-based..." Poor Seattle.
35 Eg777er : My apologies over the slightly misleading thread title. However, with the plethora of posts about airline business on the board at the moment, I thoug
36 PSU_DTW_SCE : As far as I'm concerned, Boeing is still in Seattle!
37 The747Man : Only the HQ is in Chicago. The plant and everything else of Boeing is still in Seattle.
38 FlagshipAZ : The 717 was designed & built in Long Beach. Not Seattle or Chicago. If Boeing does decide to shut down the 717 program, it's because Boeing wants to w
39 D L X : Before people walk too far down that road, I'd point out to FlagshipAZ that Boeing bought McD more for their defense business than their commercial bu
40 Oscar2 : I do not think you will see NW order the 717. I think you will see the with the 318 and more CRJ's.
41 TEDSKI : Has anyone ever thought that maybe Boeing meant that they might shutdown production of the 747? The 777 is dominating over the 747 in orders. Look at
42 Rooinc : KABC here in LA just reported that Boeing is considering dropping the 717 line altogether, as has been discussed above. It's the news, so who knows, b
43 Flybywire777 : Boeing needs new orders to keep the line open. It needs to deliver a certain number of aircraft per month to pay the overhead and keep the plant open.
44 Ikarus : Errrr, how did you change the topic name???? Regards Ikarus
45 QF717 : Qantas is finding out their 717s are U/S alot -- other airlines notice same problem? Frankly, that 2+3 seating wins me over the 3+3 of the 737/757/A32
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