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New Pax 727 Route In Europe: Baku To Geneva  
User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8197 posts, RR: 54
Posted (6 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 21046 times:

An all-business class service will be operated on behalf of Azerbaijan Airlines (J2) by Silkway Airlines (ZP) from Baku to Geneva and return every Friday and Sunday using a Boeing 727-251. The outbound times are 0955 - 1155; return flight gets into GYD at 1900 (sorry I do not have the departure time from GVA but I would estimate around 1330). Inaugural flight is Friday July 11. They operated scheduled a few years ago from GYD to DXB with this bird and it didn't last incredibly long so I wouldn't wait too long to book this. Fare is about €650 one way (remember it is business class) and it is showing up in GDS systems as bookable.

This is the aeroplane

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Photo © Piotr Kaczmarek (Wlkp_Spotters)
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Photo © Ferenc Hamori


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Photo © Dmitry Yakovlev - RuSpotters Team
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Photo © Babak T


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Photo © Piotr Kaczmarek (Wlkp_Spotters)
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Photo © Piotr Kaczmarek (Wlkp_Spotters)


(Btw don't be too misled by the sofa, most of the interior is normal business class four abreast seating, the sofa is just part of a lounge area at the front.)

Originally delivered to Northwest in January 1981

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Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.
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Photo © Warren Fisher


I am sure other contributors will know more but I thought it was time to get the ball rolling on this development.


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
68 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinetb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1651 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (6 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 20559 times:

Hmmmm, I wonder if they want a part time pilot   

Probably won't last long but it would be cool to hitch a ride for anyone wanting to get a ride on a 727 before they are gone gone.



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11708 posts, RR: 60
Reply 2, posted (6 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 20442 times:

The only dilemma here is, do I fly this on a special trip, or do I hope it will still be operating in early September and use is on a LHR-GVA-GYD-PEK route.

How long did they fly the Aberdeen route for before they canned it?


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinecaptaindoony From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2011, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 20222 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 2):
How long did they fly the Aberdeen route for before they canned it?

18 months.

Average loads were about 50 pax on an A319/320 and they used bilateral issues as the excuse for dropping the route!


User currently offlineNWAROOSTER From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1155 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (6 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 19838 times:
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This is the only Northwest Airlines 727-251 that is still flying. All the others have been scrapped as they all had manual cabin pressurization. Most of the 727-200s built had automatic cabin pressurization. Northwest opted to keep the manual pressurization , which was used on their 727-100s. Donald Nyrop wanted all aircraft types to have the same cockpit configuration to simplify the cockpits for the the flight crews that flew the aircraft. No guessing as to where what was, just reach and it was there. Four used 727-200s that Northwest bought when Braniff went under did have the automatic pressurization as did the 727-200s that Northwest acquired when they merged with Republic Airlines.   


Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26005 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (6 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 18915 times:

I thought the B727 (among other types) had been banned from operating scheduled services to Europe for several years under current noise regulations, even if hushkitted.


Quoting cedarjet (Thread starter):
The outbound times are 0955 - 1155; return flight gets into GYD at 1900 (sorry I do not have the departure time from GVA but I would estimate around 1330).

Their press release shows:

GYD 0755 GVA 0955
GVA 1115 GYD 1855

http://www.azal.az/en/about/news/ite...geneva-first-time-on-business-jets

If GVA arrival time was 1155 and departure around 1330, there's no way it could arrive GYD at 1900 considering the distance (1,929 nm) and 3-hour time difference. The schedule in the press release shows westbound block time 5:00 hrs and eastbound 4:40.

[Edited 2014-06-22 17:57:25]

User currently offlineloveofflying From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 107 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 18579 times:

Interestingly enough, they're also selling F. I wonder what the difference between F and J is?! Sadly the schedule, price, and getting a Azerbaijani visa are all prohibitive of actually flying it!


Fly the DC10 before you can't!
User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1624 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (6 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 18434 times:

They couldn't find any other plane to operate? No newer generation 737s or 320s on the market? I love the look of the 727, but really those beasts are old school - and noisy.

User currently offlinePA727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 82 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 18222 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Still the sexiest beast going! The shape of the tail, engines and nacelles is simply a work of art 

User currently offlinecrownvic From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1954 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 17635 times:

I think this is great. After 9/11 in the U.S., it seemed that the 722 disappeared from our skies practically overnight and many of us did not get to get our last rides in. Long live the 727!

User currently offlineDIJKKIJK From France, joined Jul 2003, 1822 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (6 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 16453 times:

Excellent news. Good to see the old three holer still doing what she was made to do - haul passengers.

That aircraft looks brand new. The age shows only in the cockpit  



Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
User currently offlineUA444 From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 908 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 16311 times:

Quoting crownvic (Reply 9):






I think this is great. After 9/11 in the U.S., it seemed that the 722 disappeared from our skies practically overnight and many of us did not get to get our last rides in. Long live the 727!

That's practically what happened. UA retired theirs a month and a half after 9/11, all 75. They were originally going to be retired by 2003 or so. AA retired theirs in 2002, DL and NW in 2003, a few years before they were originally supposed to go.


User currently offlinedc9northwest From Switzerland, joined Feb 2007, 2302 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (6 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 15890 times:

If this service started earlier, I'd be bankrupt by now.

If it's still goin' in winter, it might still bankrupt me!

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 7):
They couldn't find any other plane to operate? No newer generation 737s or 320s on the market? I love the look of the 727, but really those beasts are old school - and noisy.

Your a.net membership has been revoked.

[Edited 2014-06-23 01:48:36]

[Edited 2014-06-23 01:55:43]

User currently onlinetommy1808 From Germany, joined Nov 2013, 1378 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (6 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 15721 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5):
I thought the B727 (among other types) had been banned from operating scheduled services to Europe for several years under current noise regulations, even if hushkitted.

Afaik you can still fly Stage II Aircrafts to Europe, just not to all airports at all times and the 727 can be made into a Stage III aircraft (Super 27 modification for example).

best regards
Thomas


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40070 posts, RR: 74
Reply 14, posted (6 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 15014 times:

Threads like this is a reminder as to why I still come to Airliners.net.
This is great news!   
I am going to have to plan a trip!
Now I have an extra excuse to visit Baku - aside from a fmr. neighbor's invitation that now lives in Baku.
The last time I was in Geneva was in 1975 and it was on a SAS DC-9. I was only 2 years old so I can't describe the details of the flight.
Hopefully Iran Air comes back to BKK with their 747SP so I can piece together a classic airliners trip to Europe.
Are there any classic airliners or Soviet/Russian types going between Tehran an Baku?

Quoting cedarjet (Thread starter):
the sofa is just part of a lounge area at the front.)

That's still really frikkin' cool!      
Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 12):
Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 7):
They couldn't find any other plane to operate? No newer generation 737s or 320s on the market? I love the look of the 727, but really those beasts are old school - and noisy.

Your a.net membership has been revoked.

  
Well said dc9northwest!
Anyone that complains about the magnificent sound of a Pratt & Whitney JT8D can't call themselves an aviation enthusiast. Had he made that comment here 14 years ago, he would have been tarred & feathered!   

[Edited 2014-06-23 03:44:59]


Bring back the Concorde
User currently onlinetommy1808 From Germany, joined Nov 2013, 1378 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (6 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 14952 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 14):
Anyone that complains about the magnificent sound of a Pratt & Whitney JT8D can't call themselves an aviation enthusiast.

to be fair, if you are standing right in front of it during start up, those JT8D are plain painful, even with some distance. From the sides its like an old big block V8...... too loud, but oh that sound....

best regards
Thomas


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40070 posts, RR: 74
Reply 16, posted (6 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 14921 times:

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 15):
to be fair, if you are standing right in front of it during start up, those JT8D are plain painful, even with some distance.

That's why ramp rats ware earmuffs.
As a passenger, I love that sound from the inside, even sitting in the back rows.

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 15):
From the sides its like an old big block V8...... too loud, but oh that sound....

Big block V8s is all I know.  
Those aren't that loud. I find these little Hondas with modified exhaust to be MUCH noisier an irritating than an old V8 big block.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8197 posts, RR: 54
Reply 17, posted (6 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 14461 times:

I phoned AZAL in my lunchbreak, it is bookable through the airline direct. One way is £613, and I also got a quote to go GVA-GYD-IST (same night connection) which works out at £1026 all J class, and GVA-GYD-PEK (same night connection) which works out at £1242 all J class with the second leg (to China) on the rare Airbus A340-500 and a real bargain I think.

It's a new product, the guy I spoke to didn't know about it til my call, but it's in their system and can be booked now. Hasn't been rolled out to the likes of Expedia yet.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 14):
Threads like this is a reminder as to why I still come to Airliners.net.

You are very welcome Fly!



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineDallas From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11243 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Thread starter):
Originally delivered to Northwest in January 1981

So a 33 year old frame? About how much longer will this frame be useful before it has to be scrapped? That age somewhat frightens me, but I am definitely not a mechanic and am naive on this topic.


User currently offlineloveofflying From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 107 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11224 times:

Now someone should figure out what the difference between F and J is!!!  

I'm planning. Never flown on a 727. Crazy in my schedule but you never know - maybe it'll fit.

I have decided that Friday in and Sunday out is the best way, and also you can see a bit of GYD.



Fly the DC10 before you can't!
User currently offlinetb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1651 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (6 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10734 times:

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 7):
They couldn't find any other plane to operate? No newer generation 737s or 320s on the market? I love the look of the 727, but really those beasts are old school - and noisy.

Ugh!!!


Ugh again!!!

Quoting Dallas (Reply 18):
So a 33 year old frame? About how much longer will this frame be useful before it has to be scrapped? That age somewhat frightens me, but I am definitely not a mechanic and am naive on this topic.

I fly a 1970 727 around, it's built like a tank and has the best hand flying characteristics of the ones in the fleet, I'd gladly take a 33 year old one that's never been a beat up freighter at 10 different fly by night companies in it's life. You're good to go!

Quoting Superfly (Reply 16):
As a passenger, I love that sound from the inside, even sitting in the back rows.

It's hard to hear them in the cockpit but when I throw that window open on taxi and can hear the JT8D sound, oh man, it's awesome.



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40070 posts, RR: 74
Reply 21, posted (6 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 10205 times:

Quoting tb727 (Reply 20):
I fly a 1970 727 around, it's built like a tank and has the best hand flying characteristics of the ones in the fleet, I'd gladly take a 33 year old one that's never been a beat up freighter at 10 different fly by night companies in it's life. You're good to go!
Quoting tb727 (Reply 20):
It's hard to hear them in the cockpit but when I throw that window open on taxi and can hear the JT8D sound, oh man, it's awesome.

Glad to hear there are still some older generation pilots left at A.net that appreciates these magnificent jets.
My last 727 flight was on Mexican from Cancun to Mexico City in 2001. My seat was in the front but I spent a lot of time at the rear lavatories just to hear the sound of those engines.
We had the water canon salute with military as we pushed back from Cancun. The pilot flew that 727 like a fighter pilot with lots of steep banks and full throttle takeoff. It was manually flown throughout the flight. As we exit the aircraft in Mexico City, the captain had a fiesta waiting for him the terminal - complete with champagne an party goers. He was retiring. It was his last flight.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinecrownvic From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1954 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (6 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 10110 times:

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 13):

Afaik you can still fly Stage II Aircrafts to Europe, just not to all airports at all times and the 727 can be made into a Stage III aircraft (Super 27 modification for example).

best regards
Thomas

As far as I know, you cannot. Stage II does not exist in Europe and is referred to Chapter II. Stage II and Stage III are FAA/DOT terms, where Europe uses Chapter II and Chapter III. From what I recall, all Chapter II passenger carrying airliners (meaning non military/Head of State) are now banned at all European Airports (as they are in the U.S.) and have been for the past few years. That is what killed off the TU-154B2 and IL-86 in Europe as these were Chapter II types along with BAC-111's and a few others. Not to be too technical, there is no such word as "aircrafts", but it is frequently used on this forum. I realize English may not be your native language, but I thought i would point this out to everyone  


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40070 posts, RR: 74
Reply 23, posted (6 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10009 times:

Quoting crownvic (Reply 22):
I realize English may not be your native language, but I thought i would point this out to everyone _

  

Not to knit-pick but if you're going to be an Errorist, you can't make these sort of mistakes.  
The use if 'I' needs to be in caps an you're missing a period.
You get a B-



I thought the TU-154 an IL-86 were allowed to fly to the EU up until very recently.
Is that correct?

[Edited 2014-06-24 00:09:09]


Bring back the Concorde
User currently onlinetommy1808 From Germany, joined Nov 2013, 1378 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (6 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9926 times:

Quoting crownvic (Reply 22):
As far as I know, you cannot. Stage II does not exist in Europe and is referred to Chapter II. Stage II and Stage III are FAA/DOT terms, where Europe uses Chapter II and Chapter III. From what I recall, all Chapter II passenger carrying airliners (meaning non military/Head of State) are now banned at all European Airports (as they are in the U.S.) and have been for the past few years. That is what killed off the TU-154B2 and IL-86 in Europe as these were Chapter II types along with BAC-111's and a few others.

The Tariff Regulations for Düsseldorf Airport still list landing fees for their noise level 8 aircraft (A124, B703, B743) and level 7 aircraft (A30B, AN12, B721, B742, B74S, L101, MD11, MD88, T154). The pricing is pretty prohibitive, up to 56.000 EUR for level 8 and up to 49.000 EUR for level 7, but i see no indication that you can not legally fly it to DUS. Airliners.net has plenty of pictures of TU-154 at EU Airports in the last 6 month....

Quoting crownvic (Reply 22):
Not to be too technical, there is no such word as "aircrafts", but it is frequently used on this forum.

Ah, like Information. Thanks.

best regards
Thomas


25 Aesma : My concern would be the economic viability of doing this. Acquisition costs low but operating costs through the roof, and no expensive cargo (or high
26 tommy1808 : fly onwards..... i wonder if there is a reasonable priced connection to go onwards to TPE and the flight still exists in November... best regards Tho
27 Superfly : Or the chicken. China has good food. Or try the Peking duck. ...or check out Ulan Bator, Mongolia for adventure or fly down here to Bangkok for fun.
28 tommy1808 : China has a lot of good food, and it might be kinda cool to have it with an post-apocalyptic and "aliens-have-landed and started to terraform earths
29 Superfly : That's the ideal environment I want to eat duck. That's what I was thinking. Plus the high business class fares make up for it as well. These decisio
30 tb727 : Heck, I'm younger than most of the planes I fly or really have ever flown being born in the 80's! My first day of school after I moved to that side o
31 Superfly : Fantastic! Glad I'm not the only person interested in aircraft (among other things) before my time. I think Iran Air has a few still flying. They hav
32 Post contains images vfw614 : Hmmm, I see a considerable risk of AZAL pulling the route if instead of wealthy businesspeople the flights get swamped by anorak-wearing a.nutters....
33 tommy1808 : If they pay the prices, they probably don´t care at all. Considering the very limited amount of seat available people wanting to fly the 727 might k
34 crownvic : Here is the best answer I can give. More than likely, the TU-154 you mention was a TU-154M, which does meet Chapter 3 regulations. The AN124 meets Ch
35 FLIEGER67 : Well, seems not like the easy going booking. The flight is on the website as an advertissement but not on the bookable flights list. Also not visible
36 cedarjet : You could do what I did, and call the airline on the phone and make a booking direct. Call the airline? Radical I know.
37 747400sp : Hush! I happly to see them use a 727 instead of another boring 737 or A320.
38 Post contains images MD11Engineer : Do they need an A&P mechanic with 727 experience? The B727 was one of the best aircraft I ever worked on, very simple sytem layout, very little in
39 JAAlbert : LOL!! No, don't! I'll try and do better! I do agree that the 727's profile is iconic - Boeing has made some gorgeous looking planes over the years, b
40 Post contains images Superfly : I still do that. This is a 727, not a Concorde.
41 MD11Engineer : The 727 is a very easily maintained airplane. The engines (JT8D-15) are fuel guzzlers compared with today's ones, but they are virtually indestructib
42 dc9northwest : Have you tried economists.net? It's for people who care about those things.
43 cedarjet : So yesterday was the inaugural flight, GYD-GVA-GYD. The first leg carried seven pax, and return, which I flew on with fellow a.netter UK_Dispatcher, w
44 Viscount724 : What was your fare, and how did you get home from GYD?
45 Post contains images abrelosojos : = Awesome. Though, you sure there were just two of you ? Saludos, Alex
46 runway23 : The flight will do just well. There are very strong ties between Azerbaijan and Geneva most notably for petroleum. Azerbaijan's main petroleum tradin
47 cedarjet : £613 one way - afaik the return is exactly double. BA 144 leaves for London 1h50m after J2 124 arrives, which is plenty of time for transit formalit
48 Post contains images Superfly : I hope this flight last through the winter. I'd love to make a ski trip to Switzerland out of this. Not sure if there is a Bangkok-Baku flight. These
49 Post contains images abrelosojos : = Did you check the cockpit ? And the engineer and crew said you two went overboard with the photos . = Right. And isn't Socar the fuel supplier for
50 cedarjet : OK fine, there were four pilots and four cabin crew. Good work Sherlock. I doubt it - I took about twenty pics and UK_Dispatcher only had his phone w
51 Post contains images abrelosojos : = Haha. Fair enough . I am glad you had a great flight. Thanks for alerting us to the opportunity. It is truly unique, and i do hope people get to fl
52 runway23 : Yes, Socar Aviation provide fuel to airlines in GVA and ZRH. Socar Energy control much of the domestic Swiss petrol station market that they bought f
53 Viscount724 : The Socar (ex-Esso) market share in Switzerland is only about 8%. BP is the largest with about 14% (2012 data).
54 Post contains links abrelosojos : = That shows a healthy fragmented market. Curious, where would they rank with the 8%? Saludos, Alex PS: Report now on the flight at - Azal Azerbaijan
55 runway23 : Whilst that is the case for retail (ie. just the name on the station), SOCAR and Azerbaijanprovide approximately 35-40% of the petroleum that is sold
56 abrelosojos : = Wow. I had no idea that it was that high. = Probably, the best summed up analysis here. Thoughts, on why LX would not start a GVA or ZRH based BBJ
57 Post contains images sovietjet : Seriously? The thousands of boring 737 and A320 are not enough for you? These type of comments should be banned from a.net! They're still not that ba
58 cedarjet : Update from AZAL. I heard a rumour that this will become an Airbus A319 in September, so I called their London office and they said they had heard the
59 Tesla : I was thrilled to come across this information last week. There is no 727 service in the United States anymore, so this new flight seemed to be a grea
60 SCQ83 : AZAL is the government-owned carrier of Azerbaijan, a dictatorship with loads of oil money obsessed with raising their international profile, so it d
61 cedarjet : Nothing definite about it changing, there are definitely no plans to retire the aircraft itself so maybe it'll last for ages. Basically... ...be prepa
62 Post contains links Viscount724 : You'll find retail petroleum market shares in Switzerland (as of 2012) on page 16 in this document.The 8% was among the lowest (tied with Tamoil whic
63 Pellegrine : Thanks, I'd love to take this flight. Amazing. Thanks.
64 Tesla : I just called AZAL in London to enquire about booking a flight on Friday 31 October. They said they do not have this flight scheduled past 20 October,
65 cedarjet : Bad news everybody - the route has been taken over by AZAL who now operate the same schedule (Fri / Sun) but using two class (J / Y) A319. The dream i
66 Tesla : That's disappointing. Thanks for posting the update, cedarjet.
67 mrcomet : Sounds like the Aliyev family money laundering route. They do stupid things in Azerbaijan for their first family.
68 Post contains links Loran : A shame the 727 already stopped flying on this route, still can't figure out how lucky I was to be on the last flight. If someone is interested to see
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