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ANA Reveals First 787-9 Layout: 395 Seats  
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13114 posts, RR: 35
Posted (4 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 20627 times:

ANA revealed its 787-9 cabin layout for domestic usage, consisting of 18 Premium and 377 Economy seats (395 total). First delivery is set for July 27, the jet will enter revenue service on August 4.

The airline adds that the 787-9 fuel economy is "superior" to that of the -8, and 23% better than the 767-300ER. This, coupled with 20% more seating and better cargo capacity, will help cut operating costs.

Cabin layouts for regional and international routes are still unknown.

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtSyHVGCEAEUHtM.png:large

Sources:
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...mmercial-operator-of-787-9-401963/
http://www.ausbt.com.au/ana-boeing-7...-dreamliner-inaugural-first-flight
http://twitter.com/airlineroute/status/492203840234471426

[Edited 2014-07-25 07:36:45]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31412 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (4 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 20636 times:
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Very close to their 777-200 domestic configuration (which is 21 P / 384Y).

[Edited 2014-07-25 07:02:42]

User currently offlineJetblue1965 From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 2356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (4 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 20613 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):

The airline adds that the 787-9 fuel economy is "superior" to that of the -8, and 23% better than the 767-300ER. This, coupled with 20% more seating and better cargo capacity, will help cut operating costs.

The 787-9 (domestics) is more a replacement of 777-200A planes than the 763 (which is replaced by 787-8).

But once more flat-bed confg'ed 787-8 and 787-9 arrive, I fully expect HND-YVR to go 787.


User currently offlineUALFAson From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 741 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (4 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 20129 times:

You mean 377 Economy, not 337.

I also find it amazing/impressive that there is only the one rear galley for all those economy passengers. Although if this plane is intended to be used domestically, I guess they only need room for lots and lots of drinks (and not food).



"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1624 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 20015 times:

That's a lot of people in that plane! What is the pitch?

What is the longest domestic flight ANA flies?


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13114 posts, RR: 35
Reply 5, posted (4 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 19787 times:

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 2):
The 787-9 (domestics) is more a replacement of 777-200A planes than the 763 (which is replaced by 787-8).

I have no idea why they compare it to the 763. Still, those numbers are interesting: ANA claims the 787-8 is 17% more fuel efficient than the 763 om domestic routes while the 787-9 lands at 23%, a 6% difference! Though not sure if they are talking about block fuel burn or fuel cost per seat.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31412 posts, RR: 85
Reply 6, posted (4 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 19644 times:
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Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 5):
Though not sure if they are talking about block fuel burn or fuel cost per seat.

Has to be per seat due to the short stage lengths involved.


User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12878 posts, RR: 46
Reply 7, posted (4 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 19653 times:
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395 in a 787-9?  Wow!   


Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana! #44cHAMpion
User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1584 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (4 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 19608 times:

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 4):
That's a lot of people in that plane! What is the pitch?

An awful lot of people...

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 5):
ANA claims the 787-8 is 17% more fuel efficient than the 763 om domestic routes while the 787-9 lands at 23%, a 6% difference! Though not sure if they are talking about block fuel burn or fuel cost per seat.

Must be seat mile costs, I can't see the 789 being 6% better than the 788 on a block fuel basis.



BV
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13114 posts, RR: 35
Reply 9, posted (4 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 19575 times:

For regional usage, the MTOW is (paper) de-rated to 226 tons (standard is 253 tons).

http://www.ana.co.jp/dom/inflight/seatmap/789/

[Edited 2014-07-25 08:09:17]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineAviationAware From Germany, joined May 2014, 620 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (4 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 19293 times:

I wonder if they will order any -10s... extrapolating the seat capacity jump from 788 domestic to 789 domestic (taking the fuselage extensions as the base for the calculation); they would get to roughly 450 seats.
That is still much (64 seats) less than they have on their domestic 773s, but it would be in line with the Japanese trend to downsize domestic widebodies by one notch to trim capacity and optimize yields.


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 10000 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (4 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 19142 times:

This is the aircraft that did test flights in Curacao. I've heard how many total seats it holds when it was here, amazing. I'm glad to have seen this aircraft and good luck to NH  

A388


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13114 posts, RR: 35
Reply 12, posted (4 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 19141 times:

Quoting AviationAware (Reply 10):
I wonder if they will order any -10s

I'm not sure. They ordered 14 more 787-9 beginning this year. Also:

Quoting AviationAware (Reply 10):
they would get to roughly 450 seats

The exit limit is 440 pax.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7959 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (4 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 19082 times:

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 4):
That's a lot of people in that plane! What is the pitch?

From what I know, NH's pitch on domestic Y class is nothing different from international Y class. I think there's just slightly less legroom. Also, if u look at the diagram, there is only a small biz class section. NH's international fleet has 3 classes.



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User currently offlinehiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2177 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (4 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 18962 times:

looks like only 5 lavs...go before you board or hold?

User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4849 posts, RR: 44
Reply 15, posted (4 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 18945 times:

From the looks of it, the international 2 class B789 would seat 30J (2-2-2) + 261Y (3-3-3) so 291 seats in total.

Does anyone know if some B789s will have a 3 class configuration (J/Y+/Y) for the long haul flights? If so I hope they dont have 70J class seats on board like they current do have on their B772ERs as it seems too much. I would think having 48J (flat bed seats) for the B789 is more than enough for a vast majority of the currently operated long haul B772ER routes of NH.


User currently offlinetjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2505 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (4 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 18570 times:

Quoting hiflyer (Reply 14):
go before you board or hold?

Line up and wait.......  



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User currently offlineAviationAware From Germany, joined May 2014, 620 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (4 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 18403 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 12):
The exit limit is 440 pax.

AH, didn't consider. Slightly less attractive then, but still 45 more seats... I think we might very well see a 78J order some day from ANA.


User currently offlineba319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8589 posts, RR: 54
Reply 18, posted (4 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 18282 times:
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Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 5):
ANA claims the 787-8 is 17% more fuel efficient than the 763 om domestic routes

- I thought I ready somewhere, on this forum recently, that JAL said their 763's with winglets hold their own vs a 788 on their domestic routes., if so, this is pretty interesting that NH claim the opposite.



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User currently onlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9817 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (4 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 18283 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 13):
From what I know, NH's pitch on domestic Y class is nothing different from international Y class. I think there's just slightly less legroom. Also, if u look at the diagram, there is only a small biz class section. NH's international fleet has 3 classes.

I thought ANA had 30-31 inch pitch domestic and closer to 34 inches on their long haul fleets. At least that is what seatguru says.

Quoting hiflyer (Reply 14):
looks like only 5 lavs...go before you board or hold?

The longest domestic routes in Japan are about 1 hour 45 minutes. Most are 1 hour - 1 hour 15 minute. The shorter the flight, the lower the lav usage usualy is.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 7):
395 in a 787-9? Wow!

Welcome to domestic flying in Japan. Somehow they still load and unload one of those planes quicker than a US airline can load a 737.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offline7673mech From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 744 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 18250 times:
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Quoting tjwgrr (Reply 16):
Quoting hiflyer (Reply 14):go before you board or hold?
Line up and wait.......

The average sector is an hour or less.
Is there a need for more lavatories?


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13114 posts, RR: 35
Reply 21, posted (4 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 18102 times:

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 18):
- I thought I ready somewhere, on this forum recently, that JAL said their 763's with winglets hold their own vs a 788 on their domestic routes., if so, this is pretty interesting that NH claim the opposite.

Well, JAL's 787s have 8-abreast Y so their cost per seat is higher than other 787 operators.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinedtw2hyd From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 2280 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 18104 times:

I thought Japanese carriers have mostly premium heavy configs. Now-a-days Jetstar is role model for packing people.

User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31412 posts, RR: 85
Reply 23, posted (4 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 18057 times:
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Quoting scbriml (Reply 7):
395 in a 787-9?

With effectively the same cabin length of the 777-200 family, other than .8" narrower seat width in Economy, it should be no different than a domestic 777-200 flight. It will actually be a bit nicer in Premium Class, since it's 2+2+2 vs. 2+3+2.



Quoting dtw2hyd (Reply 22):
I thought Japanese carriers have mostly premium heavy configs.

They do for their international long-haul flights. This is a domestic "shuttle" configuration.


User currently onlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9817 posts, RR: 52
Reply 24, posted (4 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 18032 times:

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 18):
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 5):
ANA claims the 787-8 is 17% more fuel efficient than the 763 om domestic routes

- I thought I ready somewhere, on this forum recently, that JAL said their 763's with winglets hold their own vs a 788 on their domestic routes., if so, this is pretty interesting that NH claim the opposite.

JAL does not have a domestic configured 787. The highest seat count 787 for JAL is 186 seats with a large business class cabin. JAL´s domestic 767 has 261 seats and the long haul version even has 232 seats. Given how low density the 787 is for JAL, I would have expected the numbers to be worse for the 787 on a domestic route than a 767.

NH having the opposite numbers since they operate high density domestic 787 and high density domestic 270 seat 767s are a lot more realistic.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
25 Post contains links Karadion : ANA has already done this with their 787-8's which are now 335 seat configurations on "78P" 787-8's. http://www.ana.co.jp/wws/japan/e/local/dom/airinf
26 ytz : Seems to me that they should have just waited for the 787-10. It's optimized for shorter routes. And they'd likely get 450 pax in there.
27 Karadion : The -10 doesn't EIS for another 4 years though. ANA doesn't have any -10's on orders either and they've committed to 29 more 787-9's.
28 zeke : I would have expected it to be much greater that 23%, with 40%+ more seats.
29 Post contains images Stitch : At the time they placed their order, the 787-10 was not even a concept. Also, the 787-10 should have the same Exit Limit as the 787-9 (up to 440) as
30 PM : I lived in Japan for six years and did many domestic flights. Nothing happens. You take off and you land. Who needs a galley? Not for domestic flight
31 Post contains links 817Dreamliiner : That would probably be HND-OKA at about 2hrs and 30 mins. Not that it wasn't expected... They had planned on doing this a long time ago: JAL And ANA
32 georgiaame : 4 toilets for 379 economy passengers? OUCH! Is Ryan Air a part owner?
33 Karadion : These domestic flights lasts less than an hour. If someone really has to go, they can wait until they land as well. They have a 514 PAX version for a
34 questions : Why did Boeing bother to market 3-2-3 and 2-4-2 knowing most customers would opt for 3-3-3? Within Japan is there not strong competition from railways
35 Stitch : Since the launch of the 787, fuel prices have doubled or even trebled (depending on the month and year).
36 DocLightning : Given a maximum route of 3-3.5 hours, that's not horrible.
37 Ruscoe : Percentages are so difficult to interpret Can someone express these fuel savings in terms of total fuel flow per hour comparing 788 and 789 and even c
38 Viscount724 : Look at NH (and JL) seat maps for all their high-density aircraft used on domestic routes. They all have similar configurations with very small galle
39 Carpethead : The high-speed rail does not go everywhere. Yes, there are rail service to many of the locations but some may take over 8 hours from Tokyo versus 1.5
40 trent1000 : [Edited 2014-07-25 18:23:02] According to NH timetable: FUK/CTS 2 hrs 20 min HND/OKA 2 hrs 30 min CTS/OKA 3 hrs 40 min[Edited 2014-07-25 18:25:52]
41 georgiaame : I date myself, really, really date myself, but I remember when the original 737s were being touted as city hoppers, for flights under 1 hour. Very fi
42 Post contains images lightsaber : Are any used for regional flights? Not far, but perhaps out to: That would be about the limit. I could see EK emulating this, they would just add ano
43 Carpethead : Well, we have been doing it for close to 40 years since the 747SR. No other market in the world comes close but the Chinese are quickly catching up t
44 Carpethead : I am sure both NH & JL do their homework and take note of utilization of lavatories on domestic flights. Personnally, like most other Japanese tr
45 DarkSnowyNight : And on the other side of that coin we now have 737s doing year round SEA/LAX/SAN-HNL, and various others of that length. Never mind the MAXs that wil
46 Post contains links bw50505 : Why only 440 seats? Wouldn't Boeing want to make sure airlines could utilize the extra length of the 787-10 over the -9 and -8? According to Boeing's
47 817Dreamliiner : Its because the 787 only has 4 pairs of type A doors. 1 pair allows for 110 pax, therefore 4 pairs equals 440. To get above that another pair of door
48 Stitch : It's not necessary as even in a single-class you would max out around 470 seats and omitting the fifth set of doors saves around 500 kilograms in wei
49 Post contains images PHX787 : For someone like me who has zero ass, it's quite hard to tell Also some of the international fleet is used occasionally on domestic flights.
50 B747400ERF : Their domestic 787's will have to be in the air 23 hours a day just to pay those lease rates.
51 Post contains images travaz : Not to sound racist but it is true that most Asians are very fit and generally have smaller frames that us fat Americans! So airlines can pack in a f
52 scbriml : Each type A door also costs at least two rows of seats.
53 KarelXWB : I believe PHX787 is a western guy who is a student in Japan.
54 Max Q : And the people that have to be crammed into it !
55 jfk777 : Does ANA have a seat map for an intercontinental 787-9 ? That is what I want to know.
56 Post contains images na : Why do they compare it to the 767? The shorthaul 772, very similar in capacity, is the plane top be replaced with the 789. Yes, but mostly rather sho
57 AviationAware : Don't know why you people all get wound up with the plane being crammed. The Y seats have the same normal seat pitch and width any seat on a narrowbo
58 KarelXWB : Not yet, those will be introduced at a later stage.
59 Post contains images PHX787 : Yep. I bill myself as Japan's most Interesting gaijin I'm originally from Ohio, lived in Arizona (thus PHX) and am here in Japan until next year then
60 sunrisevalley : Aspire's 37% seems rather suspect. With the 767-300ER at about 90t OEW the 37% would be ~123t which I suspect is low for the 789 let alone the 787-10
61 sunrisevalley : Based on 3.5hrs or 1650nm, the 789 at 395 seats burns 18t of fuel or about 45.5kg /seat or $US 42.84 at present IATA survey price. The TOW was ~187.6
62 Stitch : They claim their data is from internal sources at Boeing and is 118,000kg in two classes (360 seats) and 125,000kg in three classes (260 seats).
63 Post contains images sunrisevalley : The ACAP sheets show the 3 class, 242 seat 788 OEW at 117700kg . Thus I have trouble making any sense at all out of these numbers based on the Boeing
64 KarelXWB : The 787-10 OEW should be in the 130 tons ballpark (for a 3-class cabin). Take those sources with a large grain of salt.[Edited 2014-07-29 00:51:38]
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