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AI 777 Being Scrapped At EWR?  
User currently offlinedifrano789 From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 15 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 weeks 2 days 19 hours 37 minutes ago) and read 24741 times:

On 08/27 I flew EWR-PVD on a UA Dash8-300 and noticed that an AI 777 parked for long time in the north side of the airport had its vertical stab removed plus a lot of vehicles and containers around it, i took a couple of pics of the plane using my cel but the window was very dirty and the distance made it very low quality.

Usually a C or a D check is done inside of an hangar protected from weather, do anyone have an idea of whats going on with this bird? I tried a forum search and was not able to find any info, pics:





49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEIRules From Ireland, joined Aug 2007, 778 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (3 weeks 2 days 19 hours 26 minutes ago) and read 24607 times:

Was this plane not hit by a truck at EWR a few months back?


Next Flights: EI DUB-LHR A320, BA LHR-SFO B744, UA SFO-LAS A320, BA LAS-LHR B744, EI LHR-DUB A320
User currently offlineReinerS From Germany, joined Mar 2014, 46 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 weeks 2 days 19 hours 17 minutes ago) and read 24465 times:

This must be VT-ALT which flew to EWR on 04th June this year and never back.

It is a 77W.



20/21.03.14: STR-CPH-OSL-SVO-IST-STR Il-96+Sukhoi+div // 21+22.08.14: STR-CPH-BGO-TRD-OSL-ARN-HEL-CPH-STR B736+B717+div
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31006 posts, RR: 86
Reply 3, posted (3 weeks 2 days 19 hours 7 minutes ago) and read 24330 times:
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Considering EWR isn't an aircraft recycling facility, it certainly is not going to be scrapped there. And AI is returning their "parts donor" 777-200LR to service ( AI Begins Repair Of Cannibalized 77L (VT-ALH) (by Nimish Aug 28 2014 in Civil Aviation) ), so I am highly doubtful they would scrap a 777-300ER.

As noted by ReinerS, VT-ALT was hit by a catering truck under the tail ( http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=166754 ) and it is likely undergoing some kind of major repair to return it to airworthiness.


As an aside, it says something about Air India's reputation on a.net that when one of their airframes sits for more than a few days or has more than one panel open, the assumption is it's being scrapped.  Silly

[Edited 2014-08-29 13:12:04]

User currently offlinemigair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1735 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 weeks 2 days 19 hours 5 minutes ago) and read 24278 times:

I dont know what are they doing but scrapping a 4 yesrs old B77W seems a bit ilogic to me. But it's Aur India so ilogic isdues can be perfectly possible. They have 2 B77L stored and one being used for parts VT-ALG and VT-ALH, howevervthe second hand market for B77L it's much more difficult than for a B77W.

Quoting EIRules (Reply 1):

Was this plane not hit by a truck at EWR a few months back?

Tbat should not be a big issue, it's not that uncommon and fixable, even in pressurized areas.


User currently offlineBiggerJetsPlz From St. Kitts and Nevis, joined Aug 2014, 60 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 weeks 2 days 18 hours 53 minutes ago) and read 24140 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
As an aside, it says something about Air India's reputation on a.net that when one of their airframes sits for more than a few days or has more than one panel open, the assumption is it's being scrapped

What's troublesome is that these new airplanes are extremely expensive, and for them to generate profit, they must remain in the air, filled reasonably well in revenue service. Occasionally this isn't possible, but generally well run profitable airlines keep their planes filled and flying to cover their monthly expenses and then make a profit off the top.

Air India, a massively unprofitable airline, routinely has brand new planes sitting around for months or years on the ground (currently they have this 777-300ER, a 2 year old 787-8 [VT-ANI], and three 777-200LRs [VT-ALF, ALG, ALH] out of revenue service). They still have to pay for these planes every month, even thought they're not making any revenue off them. This would be an unthinkable scenario for any private airline if it were to want to stay in business.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13135 posts, RR: 100
Reply 6, posted (3 weeks 2 days 18 hours 47 minutes ago) and read 24055 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
As an aside, it says something about Air India's reputation on a.net that when one of their airframes sits for more than a few days or has more than one panel open, the assumption is it's being scrapped.

   That is my thought too! I think AI has issues to correct, but this airframe should be paid by insurance.


Ugh oh... isn't AI government (thus self) insured?   

Quoting BiggerJetsPlz (Reply 5):
Air India, a massively unprofitable airline, routinely has brand new planes sitting around for months or years on the ground (currently they have this 777-300ER, a 2 year old 787-8 [VT-ANI], and three 777-200LRs [VT-ALF, ALG, ALH] out of revenue service). They still have to pay for these planes every month, even thought they're not making any revenue off them. This would be an unthinkable scenario for any private airline if it were to want to stay in business.

100% concur. Their aircraft buying is... random. Kids with darts could do better. They obviously have no utilization plan.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinedifrano789 From United States of America, joined Mar 2014, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 weeks 2 days 18 hours 40 minutes ago) and read 23968 times:

Thanks for clarify,

I didn't know about this frame being hit by a truck, and i was also thinking that EWR is not a scrapping facility but if its damaged beyond worth of repair, it will be cannibalized there and not repaired to be ferried to a scrapping facility in the desert. I'm still questioning why do a major repair outdoors, maybe EWR have not repair facilities to handle a 77W.

Regarding being 3 years old, if the repair cost if high enough insurance will prefer to sell the plane by parts and pay for a new one, in this case they loose less money.

Cheers


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3471 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 weeks 2 days 18 hours 35 minutes ago) and read 23911 times:

Quoting difrano789 (Reply 7):
I didn't know about this frame being hit by a truck, and i was also thinking that EWR is not a scrapping facility but if its damaged beyond worth of repair, it will be cannibalized there and not repaired to be ferried to a scrapping facility in the desert. I'm still questioning why do a major repair outdoors, maybe EWR have not repair facilities to handle a 77W.

Until like this week it never really felt like summer in the northeast. Very cool summer, probably not too bad outside? Someone from India would be freezing this summer in the mornings, its been such a cool summer matches our very snowy and cold winter. Next summer will probably be super humid and 90 degrees alot LOL


User currently onlinedtw2hyd From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1972 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 weeks 2 days 17 hours 59 minutes ago) and read 23651 times:

Quoting BiggerJetsPlz (Reply 5):
they have this 777-300ER

It will be covered by some insurance, AI's/Cater's/EWR's not sure.

Quoting BiggerJetsPlz (Reply 5):
777-200LRs [VT-ALF, ALG

Busy evacuating Indians from Iraq and Libya for free of charge. Once fixed ALH may have to join as things get worse. AI never had commercial service there. Guess who took them there.

Quoting BiggerJetsPlz (Reply 5):
Air India, a massively unprofitable airline
Quoting BiggerJetsPlz (Reply 5):
This would be an unthinkable scenario for any private airline if it were to want to stay in business.

Profit making is not a mandate for AI. No private airline will go to EBL to pickup citizens in current conditions. AI employees go without hesitation into war zones to pickup standard citizens. If I recall correctly AI entered Guinness Book of World Records for the most people evacuated by a civil airliner. One of the many reasons GoI bankrolls this enterprise.


User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3560 posts, RR: 27
Reply 10, posted (3 weeks 2 days 17 hours 49 minutes ago) and read 23569 times:
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It would be normal in a sect 46/48 repair to remove the Vertical Fin to lessen the stresses in the area..Some would have pulled the Stabilizers as well.. There is scaffolding under the 46/48 join area.. so it is a repair.. scrapping they would just slice it and let it drop.

User currently offlineBiggerJetsPlz From St. Kitts and Nevis, joined Aug 2014, 60 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 weeks 2 days 17 hours 45 minutes ago) and read 23518 times:

Quoting dtw2hyd (Reply 9):
Busy evacuating Indians from Iraq and Libya for free of charge. Once fixed ALH may have to join as things get worse. AI never had commercial service there. Guess who took them there.

Off topic but, don't AI still have five 747s? Wouldn't those be better for evacuating masses of people, costs be damned? Or are they all sitting around without engines and other parts too?


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20640 posts, RR: 62
Reply 12, posted (3 weeks 2 days 17 hours 15 minutes ago) and read 23360 times:

Status Of AI 77W VT-ALT In EWR? (by N243NW Aug 20 2014 in Civil Aviation)


International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineRonaldo747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 23270 times:

Quoting BiggerJetsPlz (Reply 5):
Air India, a massively unprofitable airline, routinely has brand new planes sitting around for months or years on the ground (currently they have this 777-300ER, a 2 year old 787-8 [VT-ANI], and three 777-200LRs [VT-ALF, ALG, ALH] out of revenue service). They still have to pay for these planes every month, even thought they're not making any revenue off them.

  

Unprofessional airline, incompetent managers, incapable maintenance, bad airmenship. And this airline recently got into Star Alliance      


User currently onlinedtw2hyd From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1972 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 weeks 2 days 16 hours 54 minutes ago) and read 23213 times:

Quoting BiggerJetsPlz (Reply 11):
Off topic but, don't AI still have five 747s? Wouldn't those be better for evacuating masses of people, costs be damned? Or are they all sitting around without engines and other parts too?

I think two 744s are active mainly used to take national leaders like PM and President on long-haul, which is rare. Rest of the time they are on light schedule doing domestic/regional high-density routes.

Its not that the entities controlling these conflict areas are welcoming AI and ready to refuel, so 77L works best because it can do the round trip in best case or at least return to one of the neighboring countries for fuel. BTW two B744s are also on stand by.

Again its not that India can evacuate as many at will. Depends on negotiations with controlling entities.

Finally, In a worst case scenario easy to abandon a 77L than a 744. They are used to sunbathing anyway.


User currently offlineiahcsr From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 3436 posts, RR: 41
Reply 15, posted (3 weeks 2 days 15 hours 46 minutes ago) and read 22796 times:
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EWR has at least two UA hangers capable of housing this aircraft. Problem is they are surely fully occupied.


Working very hard to Fly Right....
User currently offlinehamster From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 201 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 weeks 2 days 13 hours 59 minutes ago) and read 21596 times:

Could it be a boeing team fixing the plane? Imagine the cost of that.

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31006 posts, RR: 86
Reply 17, posted (3 weeks 2 days 13 hours 37 minutes ago) and read 21308 times:
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Quoting hamster (Reply 16):
Could it be a boeing team fixing the plane? Imagine the cost of that.

There might be an AOG team handling it. And while expensive, compared to the lost revenue of having the plane out of service...


User currently offlineFixinthe757 From United States of America, joined Oct 2013, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 weeks 2 days 13 hours 31 minutes ago) and read 21234 times:
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Saw a picture of the repair being accomplished a couple days ago. A rather large area of the skin and frames being replaced underneath the horizontal where it was hit.
But aside from that the airport doesn't have to be a "scrapping facility" in order to dispose of airframes. Here at BFM close to a dozen have been scrapped for multiple reasons over the years. Polar 741's, UPS 721's, Northwest DC-9, among a few, with the most recent a US Air 734 now being used as a fire dept trainer. Just throwing out some info.


User currently online7BOEING7 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1593 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (3 weeks 2 days 13 hours 13 minutes ago) and read 20956 times:

Quoting difrano789 (Reply 7):
I'm still questioning why do a major repair outdoors, maybe EWR have not repair facilities to handle a 77W.

No different than the ETH 787 at LHR.


User currently offlinewashingtonflyer From Bouvet Island, joined Sep 2013, 499 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 weeks 2 days 12 hours 34 minutes ago) and read 20380 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
Considering EWR isn't an aircraft recycling facility, it certainly is not going to be scrapped there. And AI is returning their "parts donor" 777-200LR to service ( AI Begins Repair Of Cannibalized 77L (VT-ALH) (by Nimish Aug 28 2014 in Civil Aviation) ), so I am highly doubtful they would scrap a 777-300ER.

Yah, but if a plane is damaged beyond repair, it can be scrapped in situ. See, e.g., N654US at PHL.


User currently offlinekaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2379 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (3 weeks 2 days 12 hours 24 minutes ago) and read 20274 times:

Interesting it is having repair work done at EWR.

Several years ago, there was an Air India 747-400 that blew several tires at LAX, and had pretty substantial damage. I believe they flew it, at low speed and low altitude to SFO to do repairs at UA's 747 facility.


User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13116 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (3 weeks 2 days 11 hours 55 minutes ago) and read 19894 times:

It may be premature to consider this aircraft being scrapped. Recall several years ago where a CO 777 at EWR (I believe on the way to NRT) did a major tail drag on takeoff causing major damage. Special Boeing staff, with CO's EWR mx staff, did major repairs at EWR, taking I believed about 1 month or so where the a/c was airworthy, tested and a short time later, returned to service.

There may have been delays in doing the repair due to the financial situation, politics and management bureaucracy at AI, disputes with insurers and in turn Boeing and UA on payment for the work and use of their facilities, Boeing having such specialist staff available to make the repair, or even getting the parts needed to make the needed repairs.

If you see major parts of this a/c being trucked away to Arizona or the nearby Port Newark with a destination as scrap to China, then I would get worried.


User currently offlinemurcielago4me From India, joined Oct 2008, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 weeks 2 days 10 hours 45 minutes ago) and read 19221 times:

The name of thread needs to be changed. Just because the tail is kept on the ground and the engines have been removed, does not mean it is being scrapped. Once the damage is repaired and it is in flyable condition, she will be back in the air.

OT: VT-ALH, (77L), is now being readied and shall fly off to some other operator soon.



"Caution, Wake Turbulence"
User currently offlinestrfyr51 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 1226 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (3 weeks 2 days 10 hours 18 minutes ago) and read 18888 times:
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That airplane is under repair, It's Not getting scrapped, Where the truck hit was a production break and part of it supports the vertical stabilizer
the Boeing AOG team has engineering drawing probably that has that stabilizer coming off to complete the repairs then go back on when
they're ready to test fly the airplane because it's going to Have to test fly. No telling how long "out of check" the airplane is
or whether it's going to need a major check before returning to revenue service I'll bet it at least needs a Level C check before taking on passengers.


25 AirIndia111 : This 777-300ER is not sitting at EWR out of AI's wish. Also, as is evident, AI is making all efforts to bring this aircraft back into service. VT-ALF
26 Post contains images Schweigend : Those images of the Air India 77W, with its tail fin removed and placed on the ground next to the aircraft erect, are eerie. Why would a catering truc
27 Schweigend : That's the answer. So, nothing to do with the pressure bulkhead? Removing the tail does seem extreme. How did they do it, a big crane?
28 kaitak744 : Do you know what AI does with its 12 777-300ERs? As far as I know, they fly 4 long-haul routes, hardly efficient utilization... DEL-LHR daily BOM-DEL
29 JOshu : A plane can sit for a while at any airport as long as it doesn't get in the way. There is still that WO DC-10 sitting at BWI.
30 Gr8Circle : I would think it says more about the reputation of a.netters to jump to conclusions about anything related to AI....
31 Dalmd88 : That's a pretty big jump. The "c" level type check on the 777 occurs every 24 months for most operators. Even if it sits for a couple of months all i
32 Post contains links and images PM : Read this book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Descent_of_Air_India Looks like my copy is now a collectors' item!
33 dtw2hyd : If you have Amazon Prime borrow and read first, because if you are expecting juicy stuff based on the title, placing blame on solely AI, you will be
34 PM : Having read the book cover to cover, I'd say that everyone comes out of it pretty poorly It's certainly no defence of AI. Nor, of course, does it off
35 kanban : re read reply 10.. and yes a crane.. there are two lifting points (one one each side.) once you disconnect the systems electrical and hydraulic, just
36 dtw2hyd : Book may not offer much hope but new government definitely does. See the difference in last 60 days. 1) Expedited turn around plan. Since June AI got
37 Post contains links KC135R : Looks like it is being put back together as we speak, from twitter: Almost there! The has been a ~3 hour process for the Boeing team. Also, hole is no
38 mham001 : It will be interesting to see how a carbon fiber fuselage does in this situation.
39 AirIndia111 : I would be more interested to see what GoI's response would be to Dr. Swamy's plea in the Supreme Court against the 9W-EY Deal. If the govt. really s
40 7673mech : Repairs can be done anywhere. From time to time - they may be put on hold due to wind. The airplane was fixed and returned to service at LAX. Negativ
41 kaitak744 : No it was not. So are 3 777-300ERs in storage? I am sure they can wet-lease these out if they can't fill them.
42 dtw2hyd : Shattered dreams and hopes of lot of a.nutters. There is still hope.
43 Post contains images kanban : They would just pressurize the fuselage and pop the dent out..
44 strfyr51 : Do you know how to fix carbon fiber? Obviously NOT!! A carbon Fiber damage like that 777 would have to be cut out a new patch manufactured or procure
45 kanban : It was a joke.. OK? However the 777 does not have carbon fiber 46/48 sections.. this in an aluminum rib, stringer, skin repair.. simple, easy, done m
46 AirIndia111 : No. All 11 77W's are in service except ALT.
48 Post contains links AeroWesty : Why don't you guys just get accurate info? Air India Arrives In SFO (okay It's VT-AIM) (by BN747 Feb 7 2006 in Civil Aviation)
49 Post contains links BiggerJetsPlz : VT-ALT flew back to India yesterday: http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/VT-ALT http://flightaware.com/live/flight/VTALT
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