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"Heavy Minimum"  
User currently offlineMd11_man From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (13 years 2 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 819 times:

A while back someone was talking about how a 757 was reffered to as "Heavy." Then someone responded saying that heavy was any aircraft thats take-off weight excceded i think it was 250,000 or 275,000lbs, I forget what it was. Anyways I was reading through the A.I.P. Canada (Aeronautical Information Publicatin) and it said Heavy was reffered to any aircraft with a take-off weight of 300,000 lbs or more. Does every country have a different number? Let me know.

11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTWA717_200 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (13 years 2 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 758 times:

Oh boy...This war again...

The U.S. standard for heavy is this:

Any plane with a 255,000 lb or greater MGTOW weight (SPECIFICALLY the 757) is a heavy.

Yes, the friggin' 757 is a Heavy.

255,000....not 250,000 or 260,000. Why? Because that's the MGTOW of a 757, damn it.


User currently offlineB767-400er From Hong Kong, joined Apr 2000, 290 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (13 years 2 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 744 times:

Yes, but MD11_man wants to know if every country has it's own set weights. You didn't read the question carefully did you? (Don't blame me for being too picky, blame the Ontario Education system!)  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Tony,
B767-400er


User currently offlineScooterTrash From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 569 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (13 years 2 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 726 times:

Woah... for 9 years of flying, I have always thought that a heavy aircraft was 300,000 pounds. But I just whipped out my 2001 FAR/AIM, and low and behold, there it is... 255,000 pounds! Maybe I should read that book a little more often.

They must have changed that just for the 757, which produces rather strong wake vortices for an airplane of its size.

As for each country setting its own number, I would imagine that they could since ATC seperation minimums are different in different countries. One more thing to keep track of when flying outside the contiguous 48 states!

Regards, ScooterTrash


User currently offlineTWA717_200 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 688 times:

Well, if the AIP says 300,000 and the FAA says 255,000, then I guess each country does have it's own number.

Is that a satisfactory answer, B767-400er?


User currently offlineMd11_man From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 682 times:

You guys are hopefully not gonna argue over aircraft weight. So in the states a 757 would be "heavy" but here in canada it would not. hmmmm. thats rather quite interesting  Smile

User currently offlineTWA717_200 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 681 times:

No, unless someone is going to tell me that a 757 only weighs 2 pounds...
Then I might argue.


User currently offlineMd11_man From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 682 times:

LOL!  Smile

User currently offlineMilldoh From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 676 times:

Is there a reason that 757s are not referred to as "heavy" on ATC (at least at EWR)?

User currently offlineFalcon Flyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1332 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 671 times:

My understanding is that for wake category purposes, the 757 is classified as heavy but not for ATC. How that applies to the 757-300 is unclear to me. I have never heard a 757 referred to as heavy either on ATC. Maybe someone from one of the operators can clarify.


My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
User currently offlineBigmikenice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 660 times:

Falcon Flyer, you're right. ATC never addresses 757s as heavies. Even tho they are subject to the same wake turbulence criteria. According to FAAH 7110.65 (basically the FARs for ATC) section 2-1-20:

WAKE TURBULENCE CAUTIONARY ADVISORIES
a) Issue wake turbulence cautionary advisories and the position, altitude if known, and the direction of flight of heavy jets OR B-757's to:
1. TERMINAL: VFR aircraft not being radar vectored but are behind heavy jets or B-757's...

757s even get their own wake turbulence seperation criteria. Aircraft enroute or outside the terminal area:

1. HEAVY behind HEAVY - 4 miles
2. SMALL/LARGE/HEAVY behind B757 - 4 miles
3. SMALL/LARGE behind HEAVY - 5 miles.

According to the FARs, the 757 is a heavy, according to the FAAH, the 757 is just some oddball aircraft that messes up the whole system.


User currently offline61Heavy From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 62 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 651 times:

ICAO and the FAA do have different definitions of "heavy" when it comes to callsigns. The FAA defines a "heavy" as an aircraft capable of takeoff weights greater than 255,000 pounds and ICAO uses 136,000 kg (about 300,000 lbs).

Now, for the 757: Although Boeing produces the 757-200 with an MTOG of 255,000 pounds, different airlines choose to limit their 757 MTOGs to different numbers (to reduce weight-based landing fees, etc).

UAL 757s, for example, have an MTOG of 240,000 lbs. You'll never hear one be called a heavy. Other airlines may designate Boeing's 255,000 lbs as their MTOG.

767-300's are always heavy in the U.S.


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