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777Jet From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 4923 posts, RR: 23
Reply 2, posted (10 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 22698 times:
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 1): Australia says hunt for missing MH370 jet may be called off soon:
I just read a similar article.
Such news was inevitable IMHO.
MH370 may never be found
It would be a real shame, as previously mentioned, if the plane was in an area just outside of the current search area and is just missed by the current search.
"""Australia will take part in a joint trial to improve aircraft tracking in response to the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 nearly a year ago, Deputy Prime Minister Warren Truss has announced.
Under the new system, planes flying over remote oceanic areas would be tracked every 15 minutes, rather than at intervals of 30 to 40 minutes."""
Malaysia and Indonesia will also use improved tracking once the trial has been proven successful...
Other 'significant lost or missing items' have not been so fourtunate...
But for a state-of-the-art commercial aircraft that costed several hundred million dollars and had 239 souls on board to just vanish and still be missing after almost one year in 2014-15 is just totally unacceptable given the technological / advanced nature of today's world - totally unacceptable.
Unless accurate new information comes out, if the current search team can't find it using the resources and funds available to them then I doubt anybody else can
Just saying... And on top of all that, MH17 was shot down over Ukraine.... Hey, these are just dots, I have no idea how they're meant to be connected.
For what it's worth, I think no matter how rationally we try to approach MH370, the truth will be anything but-maybe calling off the search South is good- focus on other plausible theories.
OMP777X From United States of America, joined Jan 2015, 407 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (10 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 21891 times:
Quoting liquidair (Reply 5): Have you read mandala's latest blog?
VERY interesting stuff to say the least. I'm so glad to see these clever minds bouncing their ideas back and forth off of each other.
Quoting liquidair (Reply 5): Just saying... And on top of all that, MH17 was shot down over Ukraine.... Hey, these are just dots, I have no idea how they're meant to be connected.
Well put. I'm in the same boat as you are on that one.
nudiebranch From United States of America, joined Mar 2015, 17 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 21818 times:
Quoting liquidair (Reply 5): Have you read mandala's latest blog?
Why yes I have indeed. So odd that he would say something such as this:
I told Jeff that I got these information back in 2011 and had absolutely forgotten about them until I read his article about spoofing. It was only when I saw the 2 Ukrainians sitting below it did I remember all this!
So all this talk and conjecture about possible spoofing (including quite a bit on this very forum) for the past 11 months, and he 'absolutely forgot' about this claim he is just NOW making.
Seems like we have a credibility issue at hand. Very sad.
mandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 7420 posts, RR: 78
Reply 8, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 21610 times:
Well, as I said in the article, only when I read Jeff's post did I remember this. It was and still is a ridiculous claim to use spoofing as a method to "I claim to know where it is"... Anyone who, even after reading the article, and Jeff's, and is convinced that the airplane was buried somewhere in Baikonur, needs to have his/her head checked. I mentioned that to Jeff and he agrees. If the plane ever made it there, or somewhere near there, it would have been flown elsewhere... and that makes us go back to square one on where the airplane ended up if it went north. The current plausible answer remains that the aircraft is most likely to have gone south. As crazy as his theory is, I have to give it to Jeff for his research (and even he thinks it's crazy).
Quoting liquidair (Reply 5): For what it's worth, I think no matter how rationally we try to approach MH370, the truth will be anything but-maybe calling off the search South is good- focus on other plausible theories.
The search in the southern Indian Ocean should continue... Anyone who think I am saying the search should be made elsewhere, given the current information as of today, should have his/her head checked.
Anything else, even if it came from me... are just theories.
Spoofing it is possible. All the previous spoof talk here were about spoofing the AES ID and even the BTO which I don't believe is spoof-able. For MH370 to have the BFO spoofed, is possible, but unlikely.
The article is mainly aimed at exposing the risks on the security of the equipment. Jeff gave the idea, I built on it based on what I know, and yes, from 2011, and yes, it didn't come across my mind over the past 12 months sans 1 week so I didn't look into it until last weekend, because on it's own it sounded ridiculous, and to use it to say "I know where it is" is equally ludicrous.
What can we learn from these conspiracy theories? Simple, our satcom equipment on these aircraft are not safe. That's the main point. The guys in the aircraft connectivity industry understand the point I was making.
So let me reiterate... the article is not about MH370 not being in the southern Indian Ocean.
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 4): But for a state-of-the-art commercial aircraft that costed several hundred million dollars and had 239 souls on board to just vanish and still be missing after almost one year in 2014-15 is just totally unacceptable given the technological / advanced nature of today's world - totally unacceptable.
Those who understand the technology and it's costs, understand. We need cheaper airtime and cheaper equipment to enable an effective mandatory tracking requirement. Those who try to advocate "let's use the nice high end equipment that can be accessed from the cabin" should wake up from their dream after reading the blog post.
The last thing I want is for the industry to mandate new requirements but still expose us to the same risks.
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
777Jet From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 4923 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 21587 times:
Quoting liquidair (Reply 5): Have you read mandala's latest blog?
Yes, I have read Mandala's excellent blog
If something like the Jeff Wise scenario is what happened to MH370 (which I won't rule out until it is found elsewhere), then I am wondering if there would be satellite images of the plane either on the ground somewhere or flying again?
I mean, the plane could have landed just before sun rise but if it was not hidden somewhere there, then it would have had to take off again at some stage to fly somewhere else.
Would the next flight have been done at night? If so, where was the plane kept / hidden during that day and were the any images taken of that area on that day?
If the plane took off straight away after re-fuelling then it would have been flying in daylight so something / somebody must have seen it? Satellite image?
I just wonder, only if that scenario is what happened, if an image of the plane was caught by a satellite: whilst either on the ground or flying elswhere?
Also, it would have had to make an approach and land as well as takeoff. I know the area is remote, but I wonder if anybody saw an unusal aircraft movement that might have been MH370? So far there has been no reports of any sightings in that area. Again, I know that area is remote, but we are just talking about one person seeing and reporting something unless that person would be made to keep their mouth shut...
One more thing...
What were the cabin crew / other pax doing when the bad guys were doing their stuff and eventually had to go for the cockpit? Did somebody just climb down into the EE bay without question? I'm mean, including the crew, there were 236 other people on the plane if there were just 3 bad guys... 40 mins into a flight is usually busy time for the cabin crew if a meal service or clean up was around that time... I doubt the cabin would have been 'quite'. I'm just curious how these 3 people were able to get away with doing everything that they would have needed to do, and eventually take over the cockpit, under the Jeff Wise scenario...
I don't really know, MH370 is a mystery, but if the Jeff Wise theory is somewhat correct and that is where MH370 headed, then IMHO MH370 must have been seen by somebody or something like a satellite as it either parked on the ground long enough until the following night to depart again under the cover of darkness or it departed again straight away and therefore flew somewhere else in daylight and was thus visible.
If I had to place a bet on what happened I would still pick the following two scenarios in order:
1- Something made the Captain do it and it is in the SIO.
2- A failed hi-jack attempt and it is in the SIO.
Nonetheless, until it is found, and it is starting to look like that might never happen, I wouldn't rule out the Jeff Wise scenario.
Let's hope it is found in the SIO by the time the search of the priority area is completed...
David L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9640 posts, RR: 41
Reply 10, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 21530 times:
Fascinating stuff - thank you Mandala499. However, anyone reading it must read it all the way to the end!
Quoting mandala499 (Reply 8): All the previous spoof talk here were about spoofing the AES ID and even the BTO which I don't believe is spoof-able. For MH370 to have the BFO spoofed, is possible, but unlikely.
And, just to be clear, the allegations here are that Inmarsat manufactured bogus data on behalf of various governments - something absolutely not supported by your observations as far as I can see.
777Jet From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 4923 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 21500 times:
Quoting mandala499 (Reply 8): Quoting 777Jet (Reply 4):
But for a state-of-the-art commercial aircraft that costed several hundred million dollars and had 239 souls on board to just vanish and still be missing after almost one year in 2014-15 is just totally unacceptable given the technological / advanced nature of today's world - totally unacceptable.
Those who understand the technology and it's costs, understand. We need cheaper airtime and cheaper equipment to enable an effective mandatory tracking requirement. Those who try to advocate "let's use the nice high end equipment that can be accessed from the cabin" should wake up from their dream after reading the blog post.
The last thing I want is for the industry to mandate new requirements but still expose us to the same risks.
Sorry mate, I must have been typing my last reply when you posted your last reply so I was not able to respond to it - I missed it.
I agree that it is pointless for the industry to mandate new requirements if we are still exposed to the same risks.
I just can't believe how a 777 full of people can be lost to the extent of MH370 - basically without a trace except for a few hourly pings that people admit could be misleading / falsified. That's all.
I do welcome the following announcement about improved aircraft tracking over remote oceanic areas using ADS-C technology in which the aircraft's location will be known every 15mins inseatd of the current 30-40mins. It's also good to hear that Malaysia and Indonesia will also be using improved aircraft tracking once proven successful. However, if a plane goes missing near the 15min mark and glides for a long time we could still have another MH370 type scenario... Nonetheless, still good news IMHO.
mandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 7420 posts, RR: 78
Reply 12, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 21494 times:
Quoting David L (Reply 10): However, anyone reading it must read it all the way to the end!
That's the risk for reading what I write !
Quoting David L (Reply 10): And, just to be clear, the allegations here are that Inmarsat manufactured bogus data on behalf of various governments - something absolutely not supported by your observations as far as I can see.
In a way yes. Certain aspects of the data can be spoofed provided you have the right equipment and tested it beforehand. I still think the AES ID and BTO would be a lot harder to spoof than the BFO... (but I think AES ID is almost spoof-proof).
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 11): Sorry mate, I must have been typing my last reply when you posted your last reply so I was not able to respond to it - I missed it.
No worries... The fact that planes can still go missing despite today's technology, is a very hard, but still a very real bitter pill to swallow.
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
theaviator380 From UK - England, joined Feb 2013, 543 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 21428 times:
Excellent blog Mandala and thanks to Jeff wise too, it's great to see both has put in some great efforts to write their blogs/theories. My questions are,
1. How did these 3 people could have managed to fiddle with aspects of Satcom while keeping other people/crew quiet?
2. Is there more investigation been done to search those 3 people, their background, their recent past activities?
Also,
I think, other countries like India, Pak are not obliged to give away any data, because assuming if aircraft was flown again and if it was picked up by any of the radar from those countries, it will potentially give away info to other countries about their Radar capabilities and capacities. Is this correct?
NB - I am not into aviation as a profession, neither in avionics etc..so please bear with my questions as one might find them silly !
What I mean is that your scenario is quite different from having Inmarsat fake the data at their end.
Quoting mandala499 (Reply 12): That's the risk for reading what I write !
I must admit, I was beginning to wonder if you'd "turned".
Quoting theaviator380 (Reply 13): 1. How did these 3 people could have managed to fiddle with aspects of Satcom while keeping other people/crew quiet?
2. Is there more investigation been done to search those 3 people, their background, their recent past activities?
Did you read the conclusions? Unless I've missed the point, for the purposes of the article I don't think those details matter. The point is not that it was done but that it could be done.
ZKCIF From Lithuania, joined Oct 2010, 433 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 20780 times:
First of all, I would ask questions about the itinerary of the Russian and Ukrainian citizens.
It is EXTREMELY illogical for them to be on this flight. The dates of their coming to Malaysia, their routes and further flights (bookings) could be extremely suggestive.
Being from a geographically close region to them I cannot imagine any plausible situation (concerning best fares via long detours, etc.) making someone fly this way.
There are people combining visits to 2 or more FARAWAY countries during holidays. Yet, the combination of Malaysia and China does not sound logical at all.
Also, these guys were without wives, kids, other relatives.
If Malaysia revealed information whether the Ukrainians booked these seats by themselves or got them randomly could be quite suggestive.
I personally would never in my lifetime (when the plane is not full) take such seats
I totally get that you're not suggesting it as a possible theory and I did read the article until the end- clearly security is an issue that needs to be looked at.
However, the search in the SIO has not yielded so much as a single panel from MH370, and I just find it extremely difficult to believe that the plane sunk in one whole piece.
Stepping back and reassessing the situation might give them a new insight.
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 9): Nonetheless, until it is found, and it is starting to look like that might never happen, I wouldn't rule out the Jeff Wise scenario
Indeed, the situation hasn't had any progress whatsoever since the southern route was first put forward- it's staggering to believe, considering the technology and extremely intelligent people I'm sure are working on trying to find it.
Why is it unusual? The Russian might be heading to Irkutsk which is nearby and he was from there, the Ukranians could be going for any purpose not necessarily a holiday. I
BTW the Russian guy is Jewish as was reported by a Jewish/Israeli paper.
pvjin From Finland, joined Mar 2012, 2541 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 20336 times:
Quoting liquidair (Reply 18): However, the search in the SIO has not yielded so much as a single panel from MH370, and I just find it extremely difficult to believe that the plane sunk in one whole piece.
It's a big ocean, by the time search efforts were started any parts would have been carried away already and could have probably ended up somewhere near Antarctica. If it was a controlled ditching there probably wouldn't have been all that much floating debris anyway.
In any case search efforts in current search zone shouldn't be stopped until they've gone through it all.
"Optimism is the madness of insisting that all is well when we are miserable." - Voltaire
ZKCIF From Lithuania, joined Oct 2010, 433 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 19958 times:
Quoting 777way (Reply 19): Why is it unusual? The Russian might be heading to Irkutsk which is nearby and he was from there, the Ukranians could be going for any purpose not necessarily a holiday. I
BTW the Russian guy is Jewish as was reported by a Jewish/Israeli paper.
OK, I see your point, but then the Russian guy would likely be on the second part of his journey. In this case, it would be interesting to find out HOW he got to Malaysia, whether he took the cheapest travel option available, etc. I understand that Malaysian Airlines did not codeshare with any operator which might be flying PEK-IKT (these seem to be two, Hainan and S7), hence this might have been quite an unexplainably expensive itinerary.
the Ukrainians? I would bet my weekly income that during the year before the tragic MH370 flight, there had been precisely ZERO Ukrainians on that flight. of course, I may lose but... By the way, there are no more 'strange' nationalities on MH370.
777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 8486 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 19856 times:
Not sure but China Southern also flew to IKT, I can bet they researched the three throughly and even if they are prime suspects it will never be leaked out, there might be consequences.
ZKCIF From Lithuania, joined Oct 2010, 433 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 19638 times:
Quoting 777way (Reply 22): Not sure but China Southern also flew to IKT
You don't mean KHV, do you? I am not sure they ever flew to IKT.
Expedia is not the best source, but I tried booking IKT-KUL return on various dates, and the best prices were when flying via Bangkok S7-MH or (much more expensive) Hong Kong S7-CX. There were NO options via Beijing at all. Sounds quite strange.
nudiebranch From United States of America, joined Mar 2015, 17 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 19625 times:
Quoting mandala499 (Reply 8): Well, as I said in the article, only when I read Jeff's post did I remember this.
Interesting that it took Jeff's blog to remember all of THIS:
From your pen:
"In 2011, I led the Aerospace and Defence Solutions department at one of the local Inmarsat resellers here in Indonesia. I told him that back then I have heard rumours of 2 Indonesian guys who have managed to remote spoof the BFO’s while they worked for Inmarsat during integrity testings of the Inmarsat 3 system. And then in several defence related meetings in 2011, I was also told that the other guys who can spoof the BFOs (remote or through the satcom terminal) are Israelis (using Russian immigrant engineers), the Chinese (using the Israeli expertise) and the Russians too, but obviously my sources didn’t want to go into details. The other interesting thing is that the Israelis do have their own set of satcom engineers dealing with “new innovations” for Inmarsat satcom, through one of the Inmarsat Distribution Partners, so, nothing surprising there if anyone can spoof the BFO"
And you JUST NOW remembered all of THIS? Multiple meetings, multiple discussions, ALL of which, according to you, involved some discussion about spoofing BFO. Including the possibility of the Chinese and Russians having this capability.
Then you rack your brain over the AES issue for months on end and fail to remember these discussions?
Sorry, but I'm having none of it.
25 777way
: They do IKT from Shenyang http://www.anna.aero/2011/07/13/chin...rom-shenyang-to-irkutsk-in-russia/
26 ZKCIF
: Looks like this would not help as they would have to enter the territory of China for which Russians would need visas. Russians only seem to be exemp
27 Kaiarahi
: If you'd been on here for more than 1 day, you'd know how diligent mandala499 is. I suggest you start by reading his posts for the last 5 years.
28 nudiebranch
: And, good sir, in return I would suggest that an explanation is owed as to how one who is 'so diligent', and who has read and engaged countless discu
29 WingedMigrator
: The whole idea of spoofing the satcom signals relies on the supposition that spoofing the satcom (a non-trivial if feasible exercise) would be in some
30 777Jet
: There are sometimes a.net members who have known people / somebody on an incident / accident flight. I am just curious if there are any a.net members
31 flightsimboy
: So with this new development, I have not been following the other threads, are both MH tragedies linked. Did MH 370 start out with the intended purpos
32 mandala499
: Nudiebranch, feel free to think or accuse what you want. You are free to not buy any of it. There is more to satcom than just spoofing. Spoofing does
33 nudiebranch
: I have no interest in what you do or do not believe. You're conflating the issue. My only concern is how you JUST NOW remembered these conversations
34 UALWN
: I guess it's time for Mandala to finally acknowledge that he took over MH370. You've been unmasked, buddy.
35 tailskid
: Which proves nudiebranch's point! It seems pretty obvious that "nudiebranch" is a regular poster here who doesn't want to incur the wrath of the A.ne
36 UALWN
: There's of course nothing blatantly obvious about that, and you know it perfectly well, but you keep repeating the same song over and over again for
37 tailskid
: There is a ton of evidence and it has been posted in this forum by myself and a few others. Why defend a mass murderer? Why obscure the truth? Why pro
38 David L
: Whoops. You didn't read the whole blog, did you? It contains no such agenda.
39 tailskid
: I've read Gerry's blog and all 75 parts of this thread.
40 UALWN
: Just repeating the same sentences over and over again doesn't make them any more true. There are no proofs. And you are simply gratuitously insulting
41 tailskid
: Again, this has all been covered in detail in this thread - many times. If you have any arguments with my hypothesis, make them. And it is you who is
43 David L
: Then I fail to understand how you can call it an attempt to defend the Captain if you read all the way through to the end. Skipping the investigation
44 tailskid
: The stonewalling of any information pointing at Zaharie is found all through the 75 parts of this thread An investigation by Malaysia - by people app
45 UALWN
: I'm of course not glossing over the (very probable) deaths of 238 people. I want to know the truth. Hence I want to entertain, explore and analyze an
46 tailskid
: I am here discussing an aviation incident. You are here engaging in ad hominems. If you ever want to discuss what happened to MH370, let me know.
47 UALWN
: No, sir, you are not discussing. When somebody tries to discuss, this is your reply:
48 YoungMans
: Several weeks ago, a few months at most, I dared to question the veracity of the satellite data; as that would have been an indicator whether 9M-MRO w
49 tailskid
: My technical assertions are in this thread. I have repeated them over and over and over again, I have posted links to a Google earth KML file which de
50 exfss
: yours. I dont beleive you have the truth. That beeing said, I would add: If the plane is not where it should be, it must be somewhere else. Also, if
51 bond007
: You are doing everything but discussing it. You are just repeating your theory as absolute fact. We've heard it - we know what you think - move on, b
52 David L
: How can you possibly interpret my comments as supporting the notion that Inmarsat falsified the data? I've said time and time again why I don't belie
53 mandala499
: Thank you for your concern. Da! My Ukrainian-passport holder operatives took over the jet effectively. After it landed in Baikonur literally on fumes
55 tailskid
: I have dealt with this question in detail multiple times. As you know, the most probable reason the AES was turned off was due to the left AC bus bein
56 tailskid
: Rara, an ad hominem is an attack on the person making the argument instead of the logic or facts being presented. In post #49 there were no facts or
57 bond007
: Unfortunately, you seem incapable of entering an actual debate - you've just been stating what you believe is absolute fact ...when in reality you ha
58 RedChili
: I haven't posted in the MH370 so far, but here's my take on the theories that I've read here and elsewhere: To me personally, it seems like there are
59 tailskid
: You're all insult and no debate. Let's see if you have any substance. The "event" or the time MH370 departed from its flight plan, occurred in the fe
60 exfss
: That is condescendant already. That I agree, so if during these two second something happened making the captain working with priority which mean fly
61 PW100
: Yes and No. Yes; switching ATC FIR at cruising altitude can be done in seconds. No, it also can take 30 - 60 seconds or longer. Remember, usually han
62 777Jet
: Hello Mr. WingedMigrator, In MH370 thread #72, reply #90, I wrote the following - perhaps prematurely at the time: Then you replied: I am just curious
63 bond007
: Is that what you are basing your absolute 'fact' on, that Zaharie was responsible? But, no, I don't agree that "...MH370 departed from its flight pla
64 David L
: Give me a break! I expressed my suspicion that you had not read Gerry's blog all the way to the end because towards the end it is quite clear that he
65 777Jet
: Well said. My thoughts exactly. Is it possible in any way that the SatCom could have been switched back on remotely from somewhere other than inside
66 nudiebranch
: The matter at hand here is why Gerry suddenly felt compelled to share with Jeff W. the following: "In 2011, I led the Aerospace and Defence Solutions
67 NYPECO
: It could be decades, but I think someone will eventually find this plane, probably by accident. Maybe they're searching in the wrong place.
68 WingedMigrator
: With the search of the priority area 40% complete, and assuming that they searched the areas of higher probability first, I would estimate that the c
69 tailskid
: Funny when you find out that what goes around tends to come around too eh? But to raise that irrelevant point in this case is nothing but hyperbole. M
70 777Jet
: Thank you, sir, for your updated odds I'm not as certain, but I hope it is eventually found - while I'm still alive Until it is found in the SIO, if
71 ltbewr
: As we approach a year from the mysterious loss of this aircraft, the rumors, the speculation, the search continues. This flight apparently ended up in
72 mandala499
: I'll be honest with you... I didn't know that Inmarsat called it BFO until MH370. However, I was taught that back then that: Freq(Rx) = F(Freq(Tx) Do
73 JimJupiter
: I've stopped reading the MH370-threads about 30 installments ago... You are one of a few posters on here who have managed to make those threads compl
74 nudiebranch
: No, you stoop lower, much lower. Case in point below: If this is true, then why was it discussed by you in the article. Why mention it all? Why in th
75 777way
: It looks like shill type behaviour to make people feel stupid so they stop discussing and just let a certain perspective have weight in here.
76 Rara
: I thought I'd visualize a conceptual problem that I believe we suffer from in these threads. It won't serve to form a consensus, but it may be helpful
77 RedChili
: I tried doing the same thing as you, and these are my two cents: Possible causes: Supernatural cause, such as an act of God. Alien cause, such as abd
78 David L
: Add that to the inverse logic list (though I assume you mean "implicating" ). It doesn't look like "poppycock" to me. The history of air accidents is
79 UALWN
: Same somebody who joined a.net three days ago, and whose only contribution has been to insult one of the most respecter users here.
80 tailskid
: Dave I'm glad that you did notice that the above sentence is gibberish, but your assumption is too kind IMO. You did a good job of covering for him b
81 mandala499
: Oh yes you're right. Oh dear me... I'm losing it! I guess hates will be haters, silly people like me will always be silly, and then the truth be forg
82 tailskid
: Tell us more about AES spoofing. I have certainly missed all of that. Or you could just be evasive as usual.
83 bond007
: If only you would take your own advice Yes, I think many here agree. Jimbo
84 bond007
: Lol ....it was your quote, and purely some advice that I suggested that you should also take .. No ad hominen attacks, just observations. You might w
85 exfss
: The dogs bark, the caravan passes. I dont know who is the ''we '' you are referring to, but I want out . there is no such thing as beeing right or wr
86 David L
: It's pretty obvious from the context that it was a small mistake by someone whose first language is not English (but generally speaks it very well).
87 nudiebranch
: Members who choose post and follow on this thread. Actually, there's such a thing as being right or wrong everywhere in life, including here. You wou
88 nudiebranch
: Mandala, How did Hishammuddin KNOW MH370 was FROM their airspace? ie. that it originated there. You see, he at the same time claims it to be 'unidenti
89 UALWN
: So "the pilot went for a last look of penang before sacrifice his plane" is "the truth", spoken by a "TRUE airman", while "His sister seems to rememb
90 PW100
: Wow. And you still wonder why people don't want to enter in any serious discussion anymore? I've stayed pretty much on the sideline eversince thread
91 tailskid
: You remind me of the old Saturday Night Live skit "Deep Thoughts". This plane departed from its flight path at the moment in time we were discussing,
92 777Jet
: FWIW Australian PM Tony Abbott is speaking about MH370 live in Parliament now (shown on ABC News 24) and has said - word for word - that "I can't prom
93 exfss
: How can you say that? Do you have inside info that nobody else have? Because up to now, nobody know what happened. So the truth is not knowed yet bud
94 tailskid
: 9MMRO did raise "curiosity" in Vietnamese, Thai, Malaysian, "a Singaporean air traffic surveillance and control unit" and probably Indonesian radar w
95 777way
: ^ Yes a couple of posters here seem to be pushing an agenda, like they are trying to distract people from thinking of any othe possibility on purpose.
96 markalot
: Haven't visited these threads in a while. What a strange conversation, and what strange tactics. Nudibranch is the correct spelling, and typically the
97 nudiebranch
: Something we humans fondly think of as the truth. And his curious inability to be forthcoming in this particular matter. Do you realize how preposter
98 777Jet
: It is also apparent that a nudibranch has the ability to 'oxymorph' into something / somebody else
99 gzm
: If you care, tell us why the pilot did it because otherwise your theory is incomplete.And what an accusation! You must find a good reason, certainly n
100 tailskid
: We finally agree on something. It seems that the union of the charlatans didn't end well.
101 nudiebranch
: Huh? What? It never does end well, apparently. Tonight Mandala's piggy back friend has a platform on CNN. Maybe he will tell the world about the Indo
102 777Jet
: When I consider the several 'possible' human intervention / intentional scenarios, when determining what scenario is most likely IMHO I consider moti
103 ltbewr
: One other part of the 'pilot did it' scenario is perhaps he had the same mentality of those that do mass shootings of kids in schools or public place
104 nudiebranch
: NYT article: http://t.co/KiExJe8enf Too bad it took this long to finally alert the public to what a general consensus shared by investigators is. It's
105 gzm
: 777 Jet thank you for your reply but my post (99) was directed to nudiebranch. I thought it was not necessary to quote because it seemed I was immedia
106 UALWN
: Really? This is what the article says: "Many, but not all, of the investigators and experts who have reviewed the limited evidence say Mr. Zaharie, o
107 WingedMigrator
: Oh, cut it out with your "truth". Your preaching doesn't make it so. An over-developed sense of right and wrong gets squarely in the way of understan
108 nudiebranch
: You cherry picked my quote, not surprising. Here's what I said in actuality: And here is what the article said: And here it the headline of the articl
109 nudiebranch
: Likely? And you want me to believe you don't have an agenda?
110 rwessel
: That's indeed what you said. But that is *not* supported by the following. They stated most likely of the plausible scenarios, but offered very low c
111 tailskid
: Would you do us all a favor then and provide one detailed scenario on how that could have happened? My belief has always leaned towards the idea that
112 nudiebranch
: Okay, I suppose the phrase 'many, but not all' does not constitute a general consensus then. Fair enough. See below. But we're just 'conspiracists' a
113 rwessel
: "Many, not all" could very well indicate a general consensus. The problem is that the "many, not all" also said "(though they caution that) the evide
114 nudiebranch
: I disagree completely with this sentiment. There is much to back it up, circumstantial and otherwise. That the article suggests a heretofore undeterm
115 UALWN
: I wasn not saying anything: I was just quoting the article you linked to! And this belief of yours is supported by which facts?
116 tailskid
: The argument that "there is no evidence to prove Zaharie did it" is kind of a misplaced argument anyway. It turns the discussion into an amorphous, ge
117 tailskid
: You know the looking into Zaharie's life and behavior has been done a couple of times in this thread, it is a sordid tale that would bring me no plea
118 rwessel
: Feel free to disagree as much as you like, but the article *you* quoted says the experts say "the evidence is limited and circumstantial, and that th
119 RedChili
: Tailskid, I'm just a layman in these matters, but after having seen plenty of episodes of Mayday (Air Crash Investigation), there's one thing that I'
120 tailskid
: You've been registered here 9 years, you have 2,323 posts on this site alone, and you have your own aviation website - and you say that you're just a
121 RedChili
: I love airplanes, but I don't have an education in aviation. That makes me an enthusiast, a layman. I don't believe in any theory that I've heard so
122 tailskid
: And you obviously don't believe in the points I made in post 116 , so you don't accept any information that's been made available about the flight. S
123 enzo011
: Why is it so important to you that everyone has an opinion on what happened and they should debate it here? I don't believe anyone is saying that the
124 tailskid
: This is the MH370 thread, why wouldn't I expect people here to continue in the discussion/debate that was going on before I came here? This is true -
125 tailskid
: The turn made at IGARI was about a 165 degree turn, not 196 degrees, it was from a heading of about 28° to about 243.° I apologize for any confusion
126 exfss
: Well actually it seem pretty obvious to me that you stopped at :''the captain did it'' your thought . No way do I think that immersat data has been m
127 markalot
: I think it's kind of ironic that the article that started this latest mess defines the problem of "believers" vs "skeptics" (my comparison). I classif
128 nudiebranch
: Yes. Do you find this odd? Here's a thought: The pilot didn't much care for violating Indonesian FIR. This could have seriously threatened the execut
129 UALWN
: I know what the NYT just wrote: "Psychological profiles of the pilot prepared after the disappearance of Flight 370 do not suggest Mr. Zaharie could
130 gzm
: If the captain had wanted to hijack his own plane he could have chosen any time he wanted. Why think it is more incriminating that it happened at that
131 tailskid
: The Facebook page of Zaharie Shah has over 200 politically related posts from the beginning of January through the end of May of the year 2013. These
132 tailskid
: Because by doing it at ATC turnover he gave himself an extra hour added to the normal hour delay before the missing plane event escalated to the leve
133 gzm
: You have a good point here.But why believe he would do something in vain like programing his plane to become lost in the south Indian ocean instead of
134 747megatop
: You missed one hilarious theory that someone had proposed and asked a question about "Could the pilot have pulled back on the stick and with full thr
135 art
: UK TV Channel 5 has a one hour programme about MH370 at 2000 hrs today (Friday) if anyone is interested.
136 tailskid
: The plan he had was to make it disappear completely into thin air without a trace, but his plan was tripped up by the Inmarsat hourly pings which he
137 Unflug
: Well, if the Daily Mail is your most trusted source...
138 tailskid
: Oh, sure I expected that. As I said above you guys don't give an inch. Avoid the central issues and haggle about the fringes, the Zaharie defenders m
139 exfss
: If I recall well,20 minutes is the SAR time to start be curious Call and try to contact, and so on with steps to do after 30 minutes without contact
140 WingedMigrator
: Have the rogue pilot zealots considered that the same factor that caused the transponder signal to be discontinued might also have caused radio transm
141 enzo011
: Fair enough, although posting in this thread doesn't mean you want to air or even have an opinion on what happened though. As far as I can remember t
142 exfss
: could someone point out to me where I could find mention of the altitudes changes during the knowed partition of flight?[Edited 2015-03-06 13:22:21]
143 UALWN
: Right. Instead, we have to trust anonymous you... and the Daily Mail... And the only source you gave. [And it was not the Mirror, but the Mail.] Weak
144 tailskid
: hehe I find it funny when people who don't know the first thing about the subject they are debating on turn into smartalecks to buttress their lack o
145 tailskid
: I assure you that whatever they are doing is to protect themselves. You think he didn't? And it would have been more spectacular had he achieved his g
146 tailskid
: This is very disingenuous of you. You were participating in the forum at the same time Sipadan was bringing all this to the forum. You're just playing
148 777Jet
: Very good point. Quite often you hear the family / friends of those 'sick mass murderers' come out afterwards and say things to the effect of: 'he wa
149 RedChili
: I would call that theory a combination of "pilot error," "mechanical failure," and "supernatural cause." It would surely take all those three factors
150 UALWN
: Oh yes. He pretended to be a psychiatrist, but all he was saying pointed to a total fraud. It's actually easy to understand what the NYT reports, if
151 tailskid
: Well you got lucky. The story of Zahaeie's daughter saying that 'He wasn't the father I knew. He was lost and disturbed' was denied by the daughter (
152 UALWN
: And that's a very accurate description of what you're trying to do with the captain.
153 tailskid
: Doesn't that line apply to you more than to me? You've been denying everything all along and now we've come to a point where most of the people posti
154 tailskid
: I notice that you avoided answering post 116. That's telling.
155 nudiebranch
: UALWN. Please do us the courtesy of putting forth another scenario that you find plausible. It's a simple task I'm offering you. You needn't believe i
156 UALWN
: No, unlike you, I don't profess any blind adherence to any such "truth." Unlike you, I am open to consider all options, including, yes, the captain d
157 WingedMigrator
: Combustive electrical malfunction occurs in cockpit pedestal cable harnesses, quickly knocking out multiple systems. Resulting smoke in cockpit causes
158 tailskid
: The first indication of electrical fire is acid smoke, which is impossible to ignore, and impossible to not notice. The time of the first indication
159 WingedMigrator
: Systems that are electrically redundant are not always physically segregated, especially for ancillary systems that are not flight-critical. I do not
160 tailskid
: Boeing knows what they are doing. They certainly had fore planning on routing redundant power buses so that they aren't next to each other. That's ind
161 RedChili
: I could perhaps agree with you that it's the least unlikely theory ...
162 pvjin
: Last time I checked MH370 had two pilots on board, both perfectly capable of flying it anywhere in the planet within aircraft's range with that fuel
163 Rara
: Apparently the other guy didn't post a sacrifice-themed poem to Facebook, which all but exonerates him in the eyes of some people.
164 YoungMans
: There is no question, the Captain COULD HAVE done it. There is also no question (albeit is it plausible..??) that it COULD HAVE been a weird and myste
165 gzm
: A few days after the disappearance of MH370 a Greek aviation expert appeared on Greek TV -the same person who headed the investigation of Helios crash
166 David L
: Initial analysis by Inmarsat of the satcom signals resulted in two arcs of probability, symmetrical about the equator. Further analysis in the follow
167 7BOEING7
: There are multiple harnesses going from the control panels located in the aisle stand down to their respective black boxes. The harnesses are not all
168 spacecadet
: But it's not. It was well established probably 50 threads ago(!) that it is almost *im*possible that it went anywhere but south. This is a conclusion
169 markalot
: For the northern route to work someone had to fake the data, which was included in the theory posted earlier in the thread. If you're confused by the
170 Reacher1812
: I know very little about anything to be honest but have followed these threads as best I can. Forgive me I've I've missed some. When I first heard of
171 awthompson
: Spacecadet Well said. In your last paragraph you have described very well what a number of people on here are trying to do. Nevertheless everyone is e
172 Kaiarahi
: As yet, there is no evidence acceptable to an investigation or a court that the transponder and ADS were turned off, let alone why or by whom. There
173 tailskid
: The story of the arcs. The (BTO) Burst Timing Offset data from Inmarsat's packets provided the amount of time it took for signals to reach the satelli
174 WingedMigrator
: The complete story of the arcs has already been told in this journal article: Chris Ashton, Alan Shuster Bruce, Gary Colledge and Mark Dickinson (201
175 tailskid
: The "Story of the Arcs" has been told many times in many places, sometimes in extreme detail and a sometimes for the layman. If your intention is to
176 YoungMans
: Your analogy with car tire tracks is a good one ... We can be absolutely sure that the tracks lead to the right only if we can see them for ourselves
177 Kaiarahi
: Why do you take additional information as a personal insult to your nobility? I hadn't noticed that particular article, and found it very informative
178 tailskid
: You should read this sentence from my post over and over again until you understand it. When you use the phrase "from a respected peer-reviewed journ
179 7BOEING7
: There is a smoke detector in the EE bay and short of a bomb that knocked everything out, the cockpit would have failure/smoke indications before all
180 WingedMigrator
: I guess that New York Times article summed it up pretty well: "A rival theory in the early days after the plane’s disappearance, a midair equipment
181 764
: Actually, looking at the location of the antennae, it is not all that implausible. Many of them are located under the front cargo bay and a second cl
182 tailskid
: One thing that may have changed from "A few days after the disappearance" is the developing confidence in the BFO calculations took some time to sink
183 mandala499
: Just read the interim report... - Page 52, 1825UTC logon initiated by aircraft and not groundstation. - Page 53 point 4 reveals that the logon at 1825
184 P206
: It's been one year since the disappearance
185 tailskid
: Yes, we knew that from the time Inmarsat made the data log available. The login appears as a power on sequence as it always has. As I understand it, t
186 WingedMigrator
: The Malaysian ministry of transport has published its update on the status of the MH370 investigation, one year after the event. Interim Statement Fac
187 rwessel
: The BTO data leads to a *sphere* of a certain radius around the satellite. The circle where that sphere intersects the surface of the earth is where
188 tailskid
: You are absolutely correct. I tried to make my description as brief as possible, I was trying to keep it on the level of someone new to the concept.
189 777Jet
: Today marks one year since the greatest aviation mystery of all time began. Respect. I'm just curious what probabilities you assign to the Inmarsat da
190 FlyDeltaJetsATL
: This is my first post on this website after years of browsing. I just wanted to say that I appreciate the efforts of those who have kept the MH370 dis
191 YoungMans
: Interesting question .... For starters, one cannot express this in so many percent correct and so many incorrect. The first one, accurate v inaccurat
192 UALWN
: I also noticed a couple of tidbits related to the captain: "The Captain’s ability to handle stress at work and home was good. There was no known hi
193 FlyDeltaJetsATL
: I believe that the other member 777jet was asking you what probabilities you give the data possibilities. I have followed your scenario, and that of
194 Finn350
: That information has been in public domain since May 2014 when the Data Communications logs of MH370 were released. Source: http://www.dca.gov.my/mai
195 infinit
: Air Crash investigation (aka Mayday) covered this incident in its current season, Season 14 Episode 11 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGUiCQmrITo Thi
196 FlyDeltaJetsATL
: If I remember correctly they did not cover any theory which suggests that the Inmarsat data had been falsified. That might say something about what t
197 DIRECTFLT
: "The locator beacon battery on the data recording black box had expired before Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 ever vanished shortly after leaving Kual
198 WingedMigrator
: I don't recall reading anywhere about the crew oxygen cylinders being topped up just prior to the incident flight, an odd coincidence of timing. This
199 tailskid
: I haven't found anything new there, but then I've already dug into the electrical system quite a bit. Where my investigation comes to a grinding halt
200 Kaiarahi
: Some pertinent facts on a first read through. 1. Mode S transponder signal was lost 37 seconds before the last secondary signal. If you want to go "da
201 7BOEING7
: It would probably cause some damage ( how much hard to say), depressurize the airplane and incapacitate the flight crew. The flight crew would put on
202 David L
: I've been waiting a couple of hours for someone else to bring these up. Now that someone else has brought them up... I suppose there's the possibilit
203 777Jet
: Welcome to the MH370 thread Kind of, but not really. I wanted to know how likely you think it is (your personal thoughts) that the data is accurate v
204 tailskid
: That's my guess too. I was about to post on it but I was going to use a lot more words to say the same thing.
205 WingedMigrator
: You are pointing out that if the airplane were depressurized by O2 bottle failure, then it would be unlikely to see a long series of subsequent maneu
206 AR385
: While not aerobatical, I find the constant variations in altitude reported today very interesting. I believe they are potentially very significant.
207 777Jet
: When I read about rupturing oxygen cylinders this is what comes to mind: http://australianaviation.com.au/201...en-bottle-explosion-improbability/ Wh
208 David L
: On the other hand, immediately turning back over the Malay Peninsula wouldn't have been the stealthiest option. True but it's quite different from so
209 LTC8K6
: How accurate are primary radar altitude readings at the ranges in question?
210 Kaiarahi
: Me too. Evidence of struggling onboard with something - if the PIC was the consummate professional, he wouldn't have been struggling with ALT. It sug
211 FlyDeltaJetsATL
: I have heard a decent ammount of criticism of the interim report on the news tonight. Some of the 'experts' have stated that they believe the interim
212 tailskid
: A phased array radar like the Selex Sistemi installed at Pulu Pinang they can be as accurate in elevation as they are in azimuth. The older pulse bea
213 JoeCanuck
: While it sounds dramatic, I don't think it necessarily means the battery was dead...it just means that it was past the time to be changed, charged an
214 tailskid
: Thailand reported that they couldn't maintain the track indicates to me that it had to be low - hiding behind the Bo Ngo Khorat ridge line. That, and
215 WingedMigrator
: That was a metal cylinder. I'm not sure if it makes a big difference, but the 777 O2 bottles are filament-wound composite cylinders. You can see them
216 777Jet
: I agree. It was new information to me nonetheless. Also, I doubt it would have made much of a difference given how the SAR unfolded over the first mo
217 exfss
: Theses changes of altitudes may indeed be the indication of either a struggle or a malfunction. Whoever what to evade any surveillance system would a
218 PlanesNTrains
: By struggle, do you mean struggle with controlling the aircraft, and if so, how would that differ from "malfunction"? I am just wanting to make sure
219 7BOEING7
: It would eventually crash, a lot sooner than 7 hours later or a lot closer to where the pilots were incapacitated. A failure of the CMU-900 doesn't p
220 exfss
: I met struggle as fight with others in cockpit or struggle with command because of a malfunction. Because of what? Why sooner, and if so, why no whec
221 joffie
: The autopilot would be disconnected. Simple. Plane would crash. Would not continue to fly for those 7 hours. What do you think it is then?
222 DIRECTFLT
: MH370 report: Air traffic control supervisor asleep on duty after plane disappeared http://www.smh.com.au/world/mh370-re...e-disappeared-20150309-13yz
223 exfss
: Malfunction . either electric , fire, or decompression problem. I tend to think toward decompression problem. But hey, I know nothing more than anybo
224 7BOEING7
: Assuming the autothrottles were engaged, if the pilots became incapacitated in straight and level flight, the airplane would maintain that altitude a
225 tailskid
: I am very skeptical of that story, The whole episode surrounding KL ATC is too bizarre to believe. They told Vietnam ATC that the plane was over Camb
226 WingedMigrator
: You are bobbing and weaving and crying insult after I asked a simple question. Do you disbelieve the altitude information described in the report, wh
227 exfss
: I will ask you again the question, if you mind to answer. Do you agree with the report saying that there is nothing in pilots study that point to a su
228 TheFlyingDisk
: Tailskid - would you please explain to me why is the Malaysian government actively perpetrating a "cover-up" of MH370 when they would & should hav
229 tailskid
: Anwar's hide is already nailed to the wall, his sentence is upheld. As to why the Malaysian government is actively perpetrating a "cover-up", I don't
230 TheFlyingDisk
: Judging by the report they've not been doing a good job of covering things up becauese there are many parts that SHOULD have been covered up if they
231 goliontus
: I see they say the beacon battery was not replaced when it expired in December 2012. http://time.com/3736922/mh-370-malaysia-airlines-compensation-bea
232 David L
: I think it needs to be pointed out that the majority of contributors to this thread are quite clearly trying to understand what really happened and ar
233 mandala499
: Yes, it has been. Just saying it was in the report. Several of us here who played the ADS-B replay were asking for the same thing, and now we got con
234 mandala499
: I'll side with Sarah Bajc on this... the coverup could be of all sorts, even to cover up the government's incompetence on the handling of this accide
235 goosebayguy
: Lots of aircraft have vanished. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/avia...h-have-disappeared-since-1948.html
236 mandala499
: Yes, but for aircraft with over 100 people onboard going missing and never found to date, it happens only once every 52 years... Flying Tigers Flight
237 markalot
: tailskid, you were asked a question about cherry picking facts from a source you consider dishonest. It's a legitimate question, not an insult. Challe
238 tailskid
: I'm still trying to complete my response to post 200, I did half of it in 214 but I have to research my answers here and provide links. I'm backed up
239 PlanesNTrains
: Yes but in this thread it isn't always clear who's the cop and who's the criminal. Well, at least for some. -Dave
240 tailskid
: If you are trying to convey a thought that relates to my response to Markalot's prodding me for a response to the cherry picking allegation, it went
241 DeltaMD90
: Yes, normally I take it you're not a pilot (I don't mean that as insulting) because there are plenty of reasons for a delay in checking in. They coul
242 PlanesNTrains
: Well, then don't worry about it. -Dave
243 tailskid
: I am a pilot, a VFR pilot, but I do understand the issue made here. It's not complex at all. If this were a Sherlock Holmes type of case about a stol
244 Finn350
: The 584-page Factual Information released in connection with the Interim Report is authored by The Malaysian ICAO Annex 13 Safety Investigation Team
245 PlanesNTrains
: Well, to be fair to TailSkid, there is if you choose to believe there is. I don't think you can discount someone's very strong belief system. -Dave
246 tailskid
: That isn't true at all. Even if all these orgs had a part in the writing of the Interim Report (which I doubt very much) they were completely depende
247 Finn350
: Yes, there most likely exists information that the Team has chosen not to disclose but that information should have been determined not to be relevan
248 tailskid
: Exactly, this is the disclaimer covering that: "The sole objective of the investigation is the prevention of future accidents or incidents" so they (
249 Kaiarahi
: It's not a disclaimer. It is a verbatim citation of the Convention on International Civil Aviation, Annex 13, article 3.1: "The sole objective of the
250 David L
: Indeed. How many accident reports do not contain words to that effect? Apparently many of us have a lot more faith in the professional and legal inte
251 777Jet
: Fellow a.netters / MH370 contributors. I have started MH370 thread 76 as this thread is getting long at over 250 replies and takes a long time to load
252 AR385
: Given what I´ve read of what was released yesterday, in my opinion this accident is turning to be plausible only under two scenarios: 1) A struggle i
253 Kaiarahi
: Complete and utter bullsh*t, which totally displays your complete ignorance of how investigations are conducted. Not to mention your complete ignoran
254 American 767
: 777Jet started Part 76 so I am closing this thread and directing everyone to continue on his link: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76 (by
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