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Sterile Concourses  
User currently offline747buff From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 742 posts, RR: 0
Posted (12 years 10 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 975 times:

How long will the sterile concourse rule remain in effect at our airports? I support strengthened cockpit doors, etc., but this is ridiculous. The hijackers obviously had tickets, didn't they? It shouldn't be illegal for us to visit the place we love! It seems like the shops and restaurants got a lot of business from visitors as well. Isn't this policy hurting them? Rules such as this are only giving in to the terrorists, by taking away some of our freedoms.


At Eastern, we earn our wings every day!
17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineOscar2 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (12 years 10 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 907 times:

Hopefully forever.

User currently offlineSJCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 579 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (12 years 10 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 904 times:

As with curb side check in, I think the rule will dwindle fairly soon. Although, working for an airline, it's a lot less congested now which is nice. But I agree that it has taken away business from a lot of the resteraunts and vendors in the terminals.

SJCguy


User currently offlineCrosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2598 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (12 years 10 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 881 times:
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Stengthened cockpit doors are fine, but the main aim of airline security must surely be to prevent trouble occuring on an aircraft in the first place. Any sort of problem is difficult to deal with at 35,000ft, if hijackers are onboard the aircraft the strengthend doors may help, but if that happens then there has already been a serious security breakdown.

Even after what's happened, America is rapidly returning to the same lax security procedures that have been proven flawed time and time again, and quite frankly should be a national embarrasment.

Curbside check-in is just one more loophole in the system for people to circumvent security. Is it that much trouble to park your car and then check yourself in?

Airside security is a very important issue. Restricting airside access to passengers is merely bringing America into line with the most basic security standards you would find in the most rudimentary third world airports. It means there are fewer people airside, which makes things easier from a security standpoint. You only need to screen people who are actually going to board an aircraft, and you can screen more thoroughly. It also provides a quick, but not infallible means of identifying whether a person has any business being there, "Can I see your ticket and boarding card, please?"

Another thing which I don't believe happens in the USA is re-checking of ID at the gate. In the UK this is checked against your ticket at checkin, and it is re-checked against your boarding card at the gate to ensure you know exactly who's on board.

There should be no need for security measures on board aircraft, and the whole current debate is messed up and designed to ease passengers' fears. The real issue is to stop these people getting onto the aircraft, rather than turning the flightdeck into a fortress. You can still blow a plane up over a city and kill thousands without going near the flightdeck.

America is never going to have a safe, secure airline industry, with real passenger confidence unless they stop the PR excercise, and address the real and fundamental flaws in the security system.

Airside access is not a freedom, protected by the constitution, if you're not flying you've no right to be there. It seems quite simple, anyone can visit an airprt landside, eat in the restaurants, use the shops etc but you're not getting anywhere near an aircraft unless you've got a ticket.

As for the loss of business for airside vendors, who gives a s**t? I'd rather have reasonable security measures in place, I'm sure when this becomes permanent there will be some financial help and airport remodelling to allow some retailers to relocate landside, as in the rest of the world.

Regards
CROSSWIND


User currently offlineAWA22 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 837 times:

You now have to show your ID at check in and when you board and at the security check point.

User currently offlineOH-LGA From Denmark, joined Oct 1999, 1436 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 833 times:

AWA22:

Correction, ID's are only checked upon initial check-in and during the boarding process. The only thing needed to get through security is anything that demonstrates your intent to travel (boarding pass, e-ticket receipt, itinerary, WYO's (UA) or "blue passes" (SkyWest), or something of the sort.

I'm one of those that would support opening the concourses back to non-ticketed passengers. Considering the terrorists got on the plane with confirmed tickets, boarding passes, etc. it doesn't make much sense.

Besides, all those entering the concourse would then go through the heightened security procedures. Want to go eat lunch in SFO's new IT? Prepare to be violated and having to put your shoes through the x-ray machine. 'Tis only fair.

Kai



Head in the clouds... yet feet planted firmly on the ground.
User currently offlineCrosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2598 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 821 times:
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Yes, the WTC terrorists may have had tickets, and restricted airside access wouldn't have stopped them. But is that the only type of terrorism possible with an aircraft, and the only possible securty breach.

The argument that it wouldn't have stopped what happened on September 11 is a non-starter, there are hundreds of ways to breach security and endanger the safety of an aircraft, that was just one. Do you want to stop any terrorist acts against an aircraft, or just a reoccurence of September 11?

Restricting airside access to passengers means that security has to process a smaller number of people, and can be more thorough. The more people processed, the more security costs - non-passengers of course would make no contribution to that cost. More importantly, the more people through security, the greater the scope for error, to miss something, or to let someone or something slip through the net. Security screening non-passengers and removing any prohibited items from them is needless drain on resources - Security should be concentrated on people who are actually going to fly.

I support any measure which will imporve airport security, restricted airside access is a reality of life Americans are just going to have to live with. Please, someone give me one good reason why non-passengers should have airside access?

The reasons people have come up with so far have been weak to say the least;
-View aircraft
-Shopping/Eating

Well I'm sorry, but a safe and secure environment for airline passengers and crew is vitally important, getting airside in the SFO IT for lunch is not.

Regards
CROSSWIND


User currently offlineAA777-200 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 322 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 814 times:

They do check ID's at screening now. Whos to say someone didnt drop their boarding pass and someone could pick it up and get thru security with it. That is why an ID is checked before going into the sterile area. Also I doubt that they will open it up to non ticketed pax for a while. With the screening lines so long why do they want more people trying to go thru now? its just gonna make the lines longer so thats why. Hope this helps

User currently offlineCrosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2598 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 799 times:
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AA777-200 - Glad I'm not banging my head against a brick wall  Wink/being sarcastic

As an aside;

At Gatwick passengers travelling on Domestic flights obviously don't have passports as a means of ID.

When you first pass through security, your photo is taken, and the image is storded on computer. A barcode is stuck onto your boarding card.

At the gate, the barcode is scanned, and your photo appears on the screen. The security staff have an almost foolproof method of checking that the identity of the person who passes through security, is the same one who boards the aircraft.

Heathrow and Amsterdam are trialling identification of the iris. If passengers wish to register they will be required to look into a camera for 15 seconds, which records the unique pattern of their iris. Then this is referenced against their passport details in a database. On future occasions frequent travellers, for whom this service is aimed at, need only to look into the scanner and can pass through without showing their passport. Saving them time, but with obvious security advantages.

Nobody come up with a good reason for airside access for non-passengers yet?  Laugh out loud

Regards
CROSSWIND


User currently offlineDarrell From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 236 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 785 times:

Unfortunately, it looks like I'll have to buy a ticket in order to see the new "C" concourse at Portland Int'l (PDX)!


those who have no vices have very few virtues
User currently offlineAloha 737-200 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 776 times:

Ah, just buy a ticket from PDX-BOI and back, very short flight and you get to see the airport. Only cost you a hundred bucks.  Big grin

Aloha 737-200!!  Wink/being sarcastic


User currently offlineAWA22 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 772 times:

OH-LGA: In SAN they do check ID's at the check point. As they do in DFW,PHX T-4 A check point, LAS HP check point, MIA, MBJ, ATL.

User currently offlineA330300 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 768 times:

Or you could buy a Y fare and refund it...duh  Smile

User currently offlineTsully From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 651 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 755 times:

The FAA (or somebody) needs to regulate what can be sold in the shops inside the terminals. What good is screening luggage when some lunatic can go by a knife or nail file or such inside the "sterile" terminal. The system is ineffective as it stands. In essence, we are chasing our tails when we heighten security but then allow these products to be sold inside the secure area. Think about it.


I love America. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle, but I'd rather be a dog in New York City than a prince in Riyadh.
User currently offlineFlashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2900 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 736 times:
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They have removed nail files, knives, etc., from the airside shops.

Crosswind was right on in saying that restricted airside access simply reduces the number of people to monitor. When you're looking for suspicious behavior, it's a hell of a lot easier if you're watching a lower number of people.

Unfortunately, many airport authorities have tied their budgets to revenues from airside shops and restaurants. It's unfortunate, because it forces yet another comparison of security costs v. benefits.


User currently offlineCritter592 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 720 times:

I hope it is lifted soon. But I do want the security measures to continue. It seems that people are going through Jack Schitt just to get safer.

User currently offlineTsully From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 651 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 704 times:

They have removed nail files, knives, etc., from the airside shops.

Actually, I have seen a few shops (at LAX and OGG) that still stock nail files and forks, even little scissors in one store. If you are a terrorist, you can probably make do with any of those items. If I were on a flight being commandeered by a group of guys with nail files, you better believe I'd beat the heck out of 'em instead of sitting there awaiting my demise. There is no way I would sit by and watch anyone take control of the plane I'm on...they'd have to kill me first! I think airborne terrorism has lost its element of surprise. The passengers on the doomed flights of 9/11 were probably so stunned they didn’t know how to react (excluding the group of guys who fought the arabs on the UA 757). Also, hijackers weren’t traditionally known to turn planes into missiles. Now that we know the game they want to play, I think most male passengers would just assume get killed putting up a fight as opposed to sitting down and watching these thugs take over the plane. I know I wouldn’t go down without one heck of a fight.





I love America. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle, but I'd rather be a dog in New York City than a prince in Riyadh.
User currently offlineJ_hallgren From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1507 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 688 times:

So what are the defects with my prior idea of creating some sort of photo ID card for limited access to concourses that the airport would issue (for a small fee, if needed) to those who want to use concourses for spotting/etc?
After all, pax don't get background checks....and it might solve the problem to some extent...



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