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Is This The Beginning Of The End For AA?  
User currently offlineBeefmoney From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1113 posts, RR: 4
Posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4020 times:

How do you guys think AA will hold up after this, after all this is their 3rd accident in 2 months! Does anyone think this will signal the end for AA? A horrendous drop in revenue came after 9/11 and just when people start feeling safe again, another AA plane goes down. How will they hold up?

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCleCo From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 569 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3844 times:

This is their FIRST accident, 3rd crash, in two months.


EMBRY-RIDDLE BABY
User currently offlineIainhol From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3833 times:

It all depends how the deal with this current tragedy! American Airlines is a very classy company, they should be able to deal with this.
Iain


User currently offlineMilemaster From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1064 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3817 times:

They will hold up because there are few markets in which they don't monopolize.

User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3496 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3800 times:

Frankly, I do not view the events of September 11th as an "accident". Tragic? Yes. But certainly no "accident".

This is the first instance of catastrophic mechanical failure (if that is indeed what it was) that I can remember happening in quite a while at AA. Has there been others recently?

AA should recover OK, in my opinion. I don't think this is like the early to mid-'90s when USAir became "USScare".


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11274 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3772 times:

PA103 was a major factor in the death of Pan Am. Weren't too many airlines that could be considered with more class than Pan Am.

Also, TW800 quickly took a company on the verge of truly turning around, and led it on the path to acquisition.

Hopefully AA will come out of this okay. But I wouldn't be surprised by another outcome.



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User currently offlineMilemaster From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1064 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3745 times:

I am considering however transferring my miles to Continental or Delta.

User currently offlineBeefmoney From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1113 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3742 times:

You guys are right, I should have stated it differently. this is AA's first ACCIDENT. Sometimes i just start generalizing all aviation crashes as "accidents"

User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3496 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3737 times:

Milemaster, may I ask why you would do that? (Actually, I don't believe you can transfer AA miles to CO or DL, but that's another question).

User currently offlineTkcom From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 40 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3737 times:

First PanAM...
then TWA...

now AA?



User currently offlineCOboeing777 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 693 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3737 times:

thank you CleCO...those were my exact thoughts when I first read this topic. Those 2 crashes on 9/11 were DELIBERATE. This is more than likely some sort of mechanical failure and therefore an ACCIDENT.

I'm tired of all the misinformation people spread around, especiallyon the news networks. My god what nonse they spew. It's a B767, no wait, its 727, no no, it was a Pan Am 747, no wait, now its an Airbus 380.


User currently offlineMilemaster From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1064 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3725 times:

Believe me, I'd rather be using my miles on AA since I live in the DFW metroplex and it makes the most sense.

I have a great deal of admiration and significant memories with AA and hope they pull through...

..but.. It's not an insane thought to move my miles to something like www.webmiles.com and use them on whatever airlines are around when I decide to use them.

Just a precautionary measure I guess


User currently offlineCo/ba From United States of America, joined May 2001, 399 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3668 times:

I don't know. AA is a large well respected airline. My question is will AA be held liable for all deaths and dammage on the ground if proven a mechanicle and what will that do when paired with the loss of 3 airliners and possibly consumer confidence. Not a stab a AA just a question.

User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3637 times:

After all the goofy guesses by the media, and the crap they take for making them, I'm shocked you guys are stooping...

AA had an awful crash in 79 in Chicago. Had a bad one in Little Rock when one of their top Super 80 drivers took his airplane into a thunderstorm.

Delta had a bad summer in '85 at DFW.

United had one fine DC-10 captain at Sioux City, but the video was pretty awful.

Continental lost a DC-9 in Denver awhile back. They also seem to have a knack for running things into parked airplanes, or vice-versa.

I'm not a fool, I understand that the market dynamic right now is pretty depressing. But you guys are bringing up 103 and 800 as examples of crashes killing the company. You ignore the fact that the crashes killed abysmally run companies, simply by pounding the last nail into the coffin. AA is NOT an abysmally run company.....and that's coming from a guy who has more than once had his ass stuck in a sweaty silver 727 at DFW, number 32 for takeoff cause of bad scheduling and summer thunderstorms.

American will be around for a long time to come. As awful as the day's events, and the season's, inevitably time is something that heals all wounds.


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11274 posts, RR: 52
Reply 14, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3603 times:

Whoa, pardnuh, slow your roll.

I'm assuming you're talking about me in that last post, but correct me if I'm wrong.

PA was certainly mismanaged, but its disease wasn't fatal until PA103. TW was becoming quite *well* managed right before 800.

AA isn't mismanaged, far from it. But, the circumstances pre-9/11 are leading to similar results. Different illness, same symptoms.
Regardless of what politicians doing the CYA had to say, the country was in recession, and the airlines were feeling it more than most. Now, throw in the fact that AA will be sued by a great many people as a result of three crashes in 60 days, and you have a severe problem. Thankfully, congress has stepped in to limit some of the WTC and Pentagon liability, so, they won't be charged the whole bill for the loss of the WTC. They will be billed for the whole of whatever losses are related to today's events. And, what happens if Americans begin to think of AA as marked? It might not be pretty.


BTW, the terrorist attacks are doing something very weird to this story. It seems like it's considered 'good news' if the plane only crashed, and wasn't a terrorist attack. While I too would feel much safer if it turns out that this was not a terrorist act, I would cringe to hear someone call this a 'run-of-the-mill' crash. This was as great a tragedy as PA103 and greater than TW800, in terms of loss of life and property.



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User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8093 posts, RR: 54
Reply 15, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3586 times:

D L X, I don't agree with you one bit about Pan Am - they made a loss every year but three since 1973, in the early 80s it was over $1m a day, day in day out, year in year out. In fact traffic (albeit the low yield crowd willing to tolerate ancient planes and nasty service) were returning in the wake of Lockerbie (103), it was the Gulf War that finished them off. But they would have unquestionably gone to the wall anyway. There was nothing that hadn't already been sold (Intercontinental Hotel chain in 82, the entire Pacific network in 85, NE shuttle late 80s, Internal German Service (IGS) in 89, finally most of the Atlantic in about 90).


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineCo/ba From United States of America, joined May 2001, 399 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3570 times:

Good post DLX.

User currently offlineSccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5509 posts, RR: 28
Reply 17, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3524 times:

Fundamental difference: AA has a fortress balance sheet; PA & TWA did not.


...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineHP737 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3501 times:


I just flew AA in September for the first time and I got the impression of a well-managed airline. I sure hope they pull through and I think they will, but it's certainly going to be a tough haul for them.


User currently offlineDazed767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5497 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3459 times:

They'll be fine.

User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 20, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3416 times:

AA is going to get through this fine. It is a well-managed airline that knows what its doing, and will undoubtedly come through this entire 2001 mess shaken, but on its feet and not in any danger of collapse.

Aaron G.


User currently offlineFlagship From United States of America, joined May 2007, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3412 times:

American can and will survive. What concerns me is the "business" of commercial aviation.
If this was not a work of sabotage, could it be faulty maintenance? Can airlines strapped for cash slow down maintenace schedules? In business most companies do
"addition by subtraction". I have been involved with AA
most of my life and I am very proud of our accomplishments. My hope is that we continue to put passenger safety as the first concern....


User currently offlineLowfareair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3339 times:

>>AA had an awful crash in 79 in Chicago. Had a bad one in Little Rock when one of their top Super 80 drivers took his airplane into a thunderstorm.<<

I'm wasn't around in '79, so I don't know what the economy was, but in the late 90's when Little Rock happened, the economy was in a boom. It would have been very hard not to survive as a major then. But its different now. We are in a recession, business travel is down, leisure travel is down, and more people than before are still scared to fly.


User currently offlineContrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1833 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3323 times:

The terrorist attacks of 9/11/ were not "accidents". How can you say such a thing? And no, I don't think this marks the "beginning of the end" for AA. They will recover, as will the airline industry and the USA.






Flying Colors Forever!
User currently offlineJonPaulGeoRngo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3294 times:

Cedarjet...exactly what I was thinking.

25 TAN FLYR : Well put Heavymetal & Cedarjet. AA will have some bumps along the way here, but it will survive. I was thinking more along the lines of GE since we kn
26 Jwenting : People were already planning to sue AA and UAL after Sept. 11 for damages, this won't help in that respect. Whatever the outcome, expect AA to be sued
27 TEDSKI : After what happened yesterday to that A300-600R involving one of it's GE CF6 engines, I would not be surprised if AA from now on purchases new wide-bo
28 Post contains images RayChuang : Folks, AA will still be around. Reason: they have powerful political connections in Washington, DC to keep them around. Besides, I still think what ha
29 TEDSKI : P&W and RR were smart going in that direction with using designed derivatives of reliable engines such as the P&W 4000 and RR RB211 series!
30 D L X : I don't think GE has to worry about losing it all even if it is found that the CF6 has a design flaw. Consider how many airframes globally have the CF
31 NWA ARJ : It depends on what they do do deal with this tragedy and the past ones. If they do the right thing I think they will do just fine but if not they may
32 PSU_DTW_SCE : That comment you make is completely inappropriate. There is reason why you should wish for the demise of any airline, especially if you call yourself
33 Post contains links and images Vegas456 : NWA ARJ, you wouldn't mind seeing, our airline, American airlines go down hard????That is a terrible thing to say. We, as Amercian's should be proud t
34 Blink182 : I have read this a few times on the forums in the past(sorry, forgot which posts, just remember reading) but TWA and PA were already doomed before 103
35 Docpepz : I get the impression that United is the unofficial flag carrier. Or perhaps it's because I live in Asia. American flies mostly to S America and Europe
36 D L X : The US Flag carriers are AA, UA, DL, NW, US, and CO. (According to the government.) The "flag carrier" means something completely different here than
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