Airmale From Botswana, joined Sep 2004, 369 posts, RR: 2 Posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1784 times:
I think not why didnt they even bother to try out the 747-400, 777-200/300, A330/340 before ordering the A380, publicity stunt again, like Emirates? would have respected them more had they been real and taken on the 747-400
Jwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 21 Reply 1, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1663 times:
They themselves obviously think differently...
It is not like Lufthansa or Air France where support of the national industry dictates what they purchase...
Hkg_clk From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 999 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1640 times:
They probably don't need it, but then Qatar is a rich country, right?
As for Emirates' order, I don't think it is a publicity stunt. I think they reallly can fill those planes! Emirates is an airline with lots of potential!
See my homepage for a comprehensive guide to spotting and photography at HKG
Marco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4161 posts, RR: 17 Reply 5, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1611 times:
Emirates IS buying the A380's as a publicity stunt. That is why the Sheikh of Dubai, Sheikh Maktoum, formed the airline back in '85. His efforts have been very successful and Dubai is very well known today, especially with tourists. Of course, only people who live in the area or who have contacts with people in Emirates would know this.
Qatar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1608 times:
Now let's be fair. Qatar Airways are adding many new destinations out of Qatar to Asia. On December 17th they will start flying to Jakarta, Kuala Lumpur, Maldives. They said they will also add new destinations as the A330-200s arrive. The growth of Doha as a transit airport has been excellent and QR have a good reputation of flying people from LHR,CDG,MUC to SE Asia on very low prices.
That is why they are building a dedicated transit terminal in the new Doha Airport.
So i believe that by 2007 with the rebound of the industry, the promotion from the 2006 Asian Games, QR can fill an A380 to Doha and have them transfer onto other aircraft to thier final destination. Just as EK is doing. I know many people working QR and i even know shareholders there and they all say they can profit from the A380.
QR is viewed as a Government owned airline infact the Qatar government only has stock in one aircraft out of the 16 they operate (excl. VIP aircraft). The Qatar government will own a significant share after 2002
Qatar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1583 times:
About the 747-400 (They have operated the 747 classics before the Airline was sold and relaunched on 1997). Qatar Airways don't need the 747-400 right now. The A380-800 will be delivered 2007 by the time QR is ready for it. Emirates ordered 22+10 Qatar Airways 2+2. Now i would like to know which is the publicity stunt and which is the genuine order.
Ek-a380 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 163 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1563 times:
I dont think Emirates are buying the A380's for the publicity stunt. They can and will fill them. Their UK flights are extremely busy especially Manchester and so they will have no problems filling up such a large aircraft. I have flown with them several times and am due to fly again next month. They have an excellent brand identity and use it well in the media and press - so much so that passengers like myself demand to Fly Emirates as 1st choice
Marco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4161 posts, RR: 17 Reply 10, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1558 times:
IMO emirates is overrated, but anyways let's not get into that.
Many people who worked for EK, or have contacts inside will tell you that alot of the things EK does are for publicity. One of the most respected users, B747-437B, even knew about this and he was close to Emirates!
Udo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1553 times:
If things are for publicity only, then it seems that tactics also works to secure profits. Both EK and QR are profitable, so where's the point?
EK is the only non-Asian airline to operate the B773, why? Because they need it! They fly it to LHR and it's full. They have three LHR, one LGW, one MAN and one BHX flight daily, so do you think all these routes are flown just for public stunt?
They announced MAN will go twice daily and other destinations as well.
Can you imagine how traffic growth will affect LHR and MAN flights in 2006? Shall they fly eight B773s to LHR? Ever heard about slots? If not, check soon, at least before your next post!
If Emirates was just founded by a bored sheikh to impress the publicity, well done I can say, that was a good idea!
Marco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4161 posts, RR: 17 Reply 12, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1542 times:
Udo and just how would you know how profitable Emirates is? After all, they are not a PLC so they do not release their results every quarter (hmm and doesn't one of the most rich people in world support airline???). As for their LHR flights being full, The current load factor for EK is around 69% for their whole network, that's hardly amazing. And believe me, not all of their European flights are as full as you think! Also, yields matter and if people are buying tickets for only 1,000$ to get to australia from europe I can't see Emirates making that much money. Udo, unfortunately there are alot of things I can't tell you, but of course even then you wouldn't believe me, knowing how skeptical most you people are.
David_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7168 posts, RR: 14 Reply 14, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1527 times:
As for their LHR flights being full, The current load factor for EK is around 69% for their whole network, that's hardly amazing
Pardon? Udo cites a specific route and you throw back the network figures! Haven't you got access to the LHR figures then? You have got to do a fair comparison!
The average EK load for MAN last year was 231.5 passengers per flight. What that equates to in load factor terms, I do not know. That is unless I find out which aircraft flew on each day so I would then have the total capacity available.
However, what about the cargo capabilities of the routes involved? Do you know that EK's single daily flight to MAN carries almost as much cargo as the entire network of flights operated by BA from MAN? That is where extra "profits" are being generated from the UK routes.
Even if they can't fill the aircraft with passengers, I'm sure they'd more than welcome the extra cargo carrying capability of the A380.
Marco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4161 posts, RR: 17 Reply 15, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1520 times:
David, I was talking about the emirates network because I was looking at it from a more logical point of view. Emirates is not going to buy the A380 for DXB-LHR and DXB-MAN flights only. That doesn't make sense. You have your opinion and I have mine, and mine is that EK doesn't need the A380. They should undergo expansion, no doubt about it, but doubling the fleet to 10,000,000 aircraft in a matter of 8 years is seriously overdoing it. What next? will they launch concorde flights to Mars?
David_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7168 posts, RR: 14 Reply 16, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1511 times:
If LHR is slot-restrained (and I believe this is the reason why the BHX flights started) then the only logical thing for them to do is use larger aircraft! If no new runway is built at LHR despite having Terminal 5, even BA will recognise that they need bigger aircraft and so go back to the late 1990s plan for using the 757 as the smallest aircraft they have based there.
The only time we'll probably see A380s on our tarmac is if they happen to get diverted here!
Marco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4161 posts, RR: 17 Reply 17, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1509 times:
For the time being I think three daily flights into LHR are enough for Emirates. They are, however, looking to upgrade their LGW flights to double daily flights.
GOT From Sweden, joined Dec 2000, 1912 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1484 times:
I think that both Emirates and Qatar is doing this as a publicity stunt, but that's not the whole picture. The A380 is not something that you buy for fun, if you order one, you will have to fill it, unless you can pay to hold it in the air, and in the long run no one can.
GOT
Just like birdwatching - without having to be so damned quiet!
PolAir From United States of America, joined May 2001, 893 posts, RR: 2 Reply 22, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 1433 times:
Aint nobody, even sheikh of emirates, order 22+10 A380's for a public stunt or just for fun! These people are not stupid. If they place such an order than they must be pretty confident this will bring them profits.
As far as I know EK is one of the best menaged airlines in the world, and their loads to UK are very high. Of course 22 A380's are "a bit" too much for UK only. I think expectations about new US routes are very high, so i belive we will see some A380's there. Other than that maybe:
FRA, ZHR, CLK, SYD, MEL, SIN, CDG ?
Adria From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1426 times:
Let's face it the A380 is an aircraft which gives an airline the image to be the best.The 747s are old concept.They are beautiful aircraft and I like them a lot but Qatar need something bigger and this is what they want.Emirates hase the 777-300 which I think is a very big aircraft so they must have reasons to buy the A380.So does Qatar have reasons otherwise they would risk so much.
26 Watewate: Before this thread turns into a flame war, can anyone name enough high-capacity routes to warrant 22+10 A380s? Sure, UK MAN, LHR and Kangaroo runs pro
27 Marco: CLK? Don't think so, EK introduced a three times a week nonstop service to CLK, in addition to their one-stop flights, the load factor was 40% on an A
28 David_itl: Have some people forgotten when the A380 in due in service? So what if a service has dropped down to 40% loads.....it's the loads circa 2005/6 which
29 Hias: The flights to Germany are also very successful. How about routes to the US ? I would see enough routes for the A380s... and the demand for Hajj aircr
30 JAL: I think that they should have ordered the 777 or A330/340 instead of the A380.
31 Marco: David, what do you mean so what if the loads have dropped to 40%? If they don't have high load factors then how do you expect them to fly a freakin' A
32 David_itl: I wonder, Marco, if you happened to have noticed some tragic events that occurred recently. Seems to have affected the number of passengers travelling
33 Emirates777: I have noticed some posts regarding Emirates and wanted add my 2p worth. First of all, Emirates is scheduled to return its schedule to normal operatio
34 PolAir: U forgot about IAD, i am sure A380 will go there one day...
35 Marco: I think Emirates should expand slowly, and it's very simple, they are buying all these aircraft to further their image. It's certainly working.
36 Udo: Airmale, you don't have to teach me geographics as that's exactly what I do every day at university. Should I have said SOUTH EAST and NORTH EAST Asia
37 Marco: Udo, It seems that you have run out of things to say so you're resorting to personal attacks. I could sink to your level, however I won't. Grow up, ju
38 Udo: I think there's a difference between being childish and using some irony...if you feel attacked by that, well, I'm wondering how you react to other ki
39 Marco: Udo, Actually I don't take criticism personally, however I do take condescending sarcasm personally, which is something you're good at. After all the
40 Solnabo: Maybe they need the 380´s when it´s hajj......... U know, the pilgrims to Mecca, stuff it full with muslims. Just a guess. Michael
41 Eg777er: 1. EK doesn't pay for fuel at DXB. 2. Load factor is irrelevant. Yield is the key, and I suspect that EK's may be very low due to the number of econom
42 Joni: Load factor isn't "irrelevant". Besides, since one clear trend in comercial aviation is that business class loads are decreasing monotonically, loads
43 David_itl: This is what my EK source mailed me this morning: "We could do with the A380 now on the lunchtime LHR, never mind in 2006! Although the BHX has devel
44 Marco: I don't mean to change the topic but I was talking to a flight attendant (EK) and she told me that on her flight from MEL-SIN a week ago there were on
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