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AA Flt 587 Could Weight/balance Be A Factor?  
User currently offlineShakesphere From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1082 times:

I could imagine those flights from New York to the Dominan Republic having alot of natives onboard, thus having more baggage then just ordinary tourists. I was wondering if maybe a mis-calculation on the weight and balance could of had a factor in the crash of this ill fated flight. If there are any pilots or operation agents that could answer my question I would appreciate it.

Many thanks from Manchester U.K

Sir William McKenzie

10 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1044 times:

I'm not an expert, but I don't believe weight would have caused the engine to fall off, or the tail to come off.

The most it would've done would make the plane behave "sluggish" or make it more prone to stalls. Which would've been bad, except by all accounts it looks like it didn't happen.

I think the cause of this crash is a direct result of either the engine or the tail. They are looking into wake turbulence now.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineTygue From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1014 times:

Merr..... not necissarily true. Eyewitnesses report seeing the airplane wobble,then nose dive. Sounds like a stall to me. Also, a pilot on the CVR shouted for full power, also possibly pointing towards a buffet.



User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1004 times:

>>a pilot on the CVR shouted for full power<<

But if they were taking off, they would have already been at full power.

But about the other stuff, I really don't know. A stall could have happened but if I was the NTSB, I would first focus on the engine, then on the wake turbulence.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineLymanm From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 1138 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 974 times:

Airlines very rarely use full power on take off. To conserve engine life, they use a power setting that will enable a safe take off, but not full power.


buhh bye
User currently offlineSpacecadet From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 3629 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 971 times:

And they usually cut the power further after takeoff due to noise abatement. Depends on the noise charactertistics and power of the engines on a particular aircraft type, though; I don't know the typical settings on an A300 on that takeoff pattern.

I thought the last transponder return showed this plane at 280 knots. Unless there was some sort of ridiculous angle of attack, I have a hard time believing the plane would have stalled at that speed; and it was obviously accelerating after takeoff. There's video of the plane taking off that the NTSB has, and they've said it's unremarkable. Usually when there's a really bad weight distribution problem it's obvious right from takeoff due to an unusual attitude.

The call for max power's another piece of the puzzle, though. We'll have to wait and see what that's about.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineLymanm From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 1138 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 962 times:

An aircraft can stall at any airspeed Spacecadet... called an accelerated stall.

These are caused by abrupt or excessive control movement. They commonly occur during maneuvers such as steep turns or rapid dive recoveries involving a high load factor or a sudden change in flight path. Accelerated stalls are usually more violent than unaccelerated stalls, and they are often unexpected because of the relatively high airspeed. Any time you are experiencing an increased flight load factor, that acceleration indicates that you have increased the angle of attack, and even though you may be well above the usual stall speed, you will be closer to the stalling angle of attack.



buhh bye
User currently offlineShakesphere From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 934 times:

Thankyou to all of you who have shared your thoughts and insight with me. I just wanted to make sure that my theory could be ruled out. Since the aircraft was full to capacity and the baggage load being typically full on these flights to the Dominican Republic.

This is such a horrible accident and I hope that we will get the answers soon. My condolencences to the families and friends of the victims and to the city of Queens New York which has suffered many loss's already.



User currently offlineIainhol From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 937 times:

Shakesphere - The fact that the aircraft broke up in mid-air really rules out your posssibility. If the aircraft is unbalanced it would be very difficult to control, but I do not think it would cause enough stress for the airframe to fail.
Iain


User currently offlineStretch 8 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 2568 posts, RR: 16
Reply 9, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 911 times:

I also wonder about the First Officer's call for "max power." I understand 587 heavy took off from 22R, and was in the process of banking left. Did they cut back on full throttle due to noise abatement rules over Jamaica Bay?


Maggs swings, it's a drive deep to left! The Tigers are going to the World Series!!!
User currently offlineIainhol From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 897 times:

Stretch 8, a couple things come to mind, when taking off in a large airliner they do not go full power, but they use a calculated percent which will give them plenty of power to get airborne.

I am not sure if it is the same on an airliner, but in the cessna 421 I flew you reduce the power on climb out otherwise you would burn too much fuel.
Iain


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