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DAT/Sabena 2 Out Of Business (Again) On Monday?  
User currently offlineCeilidh From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3283 times:

Rumour has it that the banks will pull the plug on DAT tomorrow, 18th November.

Anyone heard anything?

103 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLumumba From Belgium, joined Mar 2001, 369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2827 times:

From where do you here this????????????

User currently offlineCeilidh From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2780 times:

A colleague in ANR and it's also on PPRuNe...

Oh, and of course it's the 19th on Monday, not the 18th.


User currently offlineLumumba From Belgium, joined Mar 2001, 369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2742 times:

A lot of bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla????????
regards
P.S: Do you realy have nothing els to do on Sunday's?????


User currently offlineGerardo From Spain, joined May 2000, 3481 posts, RR: 31
Reply 4, posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2722 times:

The only thing I found so far, was a news report about Virgin Express, which apparently is thinking about a merger with DAT.

Gerardo



dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
User currently offlineMrAirbus From Belgium, joined Jun 2000, 59 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2674 times:

Ok Ceilidh,

I used to work for Sabena, but now I'm working vor one of the Belgian Banks who will invest in the new Sabena/DAT (maybe Vrigin Express merger). And no, I didn't start last week with the bank, but more than a year ago.

Last Friday all the employees from the bank got informed way to bank is going to invest in the new airline. The bank thinks it will work, that there is room for the new carrier.

So, were do you get your information from and more important, can you can confirm your information and is your informant reliable?

Mr Airbus


User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 6, posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2655 times:

Yeesssss, these Belgians must have really pissed you off Ceilidh. How much hatred can one person carry?

Poor man, I start to feel sorry for you  Crying



SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
User currently offlineApuneger From Belgium, joined Sep 2000, 3032 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2642 times:

Is it possible to ban a person from this forum, based on his username and/or IP number?

It seems like Ceilidh is trying to piss off every single Belgian aviation enthousiast on this great forum...

Ivan



Ivan Coninx - Brussels Aviation Photography
User currently offlineLumumba From Belgium, joined Mar 2001, 369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2620 times:

But from where do you get this information?
And if it is only a romour,
please keep it for you!
thank's.


User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2608 times:

Apuneger, she is trying perhaps, but she does not succeed. I find her amusing. I bet she is a clown  Nuts in real life instead of having an aviation related proffesion. As she claimed before.

Time to get me a drink and some peanuts, I can't wait for the next show!  Smokin cool



SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
User currently offlineSab12 From Belgium, joined Sep 2001, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2581 times:

Ceilidh,

Are you afraid of a succesfull Belgian airline, or do you just hate all Belgian people?!?
Maybe to you DAT should fly in Ireland???


User currently offlineEBOS From Belgium, joined Jul 2001, 520 posts, RR: 49
Reply 11, posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2572 times:

Rumour has it will freezing -40°C in Belgium tomorrow...  Nuts according to a colleague who heard it from another colleague who's grandfather is working in the meteo... Big grin


An-225 stalker: 1 x LUX, 1 x EIN, 1 x DXB, 2 x SHJ, 3 x CGN
User currently offlineSterne82 From Belgium, joined May 2000, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2554 times:

Hi all,

The most amazing point with Ceilidh is ; "You know nothing about aviation, you're all "shits" especially if you're belgian, belgian is the most crazy people on earth, and also the most perverse, they're unable to run an airline, they're corrupted, and so on, and so on..."

Therefore, He's the best, he knows everything, he have run any airlines in the world, he have a major fleet of 747 flying for him around the world... and so on, and so on... how amazing and funny it is, no?

The only thing I can't understand is why his kind of "superb and intelligent " CEO spend so much time on this forum?
If he had as much work and as much info as he, he's really superman, by having enough time to spend on this forum why few people like us, who are waiting for him...!

I'm maybe younger than him (that's sure), but I'll never have any respect for such fool, who puts so much craps on this forum.

To the others, thanks for all the info.

Salutations

Benjamin (I'm Belgian, Ceilidh, and really proud of it!)

P.S: You know, it isn't necessary to put lots of smileys on your topics, Ceilidh. It won't make us think to you're smarter...!


User currently offlineSab12 From Belgium, joined Sep 2001, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2540 times:

Ceilidh,
I guess you would like to see all airlines fail, so you can start your own 1011 airline!!
Get alive and stop spreading rumors against Belgian airliners, we know by now you don't like Belgian people.


User currently offlineCeilidh From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2571 times:

Ummmm, Benjamin - where exactly have I ever said anything like: "You know nothing about aviation, you're all "shits" especially if you're belgian, belgian is the most crazy people on earth, and also the most perverse, they're unable to run an airline, they're corrupted, and so on, and so on..."

The answer is - never. However, if you feel that your statement accurately reflects the state of Belgium , then ...  Laugh out loud

I have a thing about BeCA and the Belgian unions, that's for sure - but then so do many, many other people.  Pissed

All that I have done here is pass on something that I have heard and seen elsewhere - in good faith. If it doesn't happen - then great. That's why I put the question mark in the title of this thread. If it does - well, you read it here first.

You have to admit that so far, I've been right with my forecasts about SN more times than I have been wrong!  Innocent  Big thumbs up

And as for my other comments to Lumumba re the Belgian royals - that's all in the public domain, so why are you guys (apparently) trying to cover it up?  Nuts Big grin

Oh, and I like the smileys. They brighten the threads up.  Smokin cool  Smokin cool


User currently offlineEBOS From Belgium, joined Jul 2001, 520 posts, RR: 49
Reply 15, posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2513 times:

Now i remember this 'threadstarter' acting in the Muppet Show... Wink/being sarcastic seems that he also lost his job... Big grin


An-225 stalker: 1 x LUX, 1 x EIN, 1 x DXB, 2 x SHJ, 3 x CGN
User currently offlineAirDD From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 375 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2492 times:

What has been the load-factor on DAT flights recently ?

AirDD


User currently offlineGerardo From Spain, joined May 2000, 3481 posts, RR: 31
Reply 17, posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2485 times:

Boy! It doesn't need much to heat some people in Belgium, does it?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

I'd suggest to calm down. After all, a forum like this is the place, where rumours can be discussed, or am I wrong?

Kind regards
Gerardo




dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 18, posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2478 times:

Gerardo, As long as they are related to aviation, yes! If they are intentionally placed to offend people (trying to), No!


SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
User currently offlineAussie_ From Australia, joined Dec 2000, 1766 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2431 times:

I think a lot of people have more against Ceilidh than he does against Belgians.

What he said is right - he posted a rumour he heard. I think half the posts here are either entirely rumours or speculating on the future. Just because Ceilidh's rumour sounds unpleasant doesn't mean you have to give him a hard time about it.

There has been much speculation on the truth of Ceilidh's past work in the aviation industry. I think none of us are in the position to comment without proof. However all I can say is, though I may strongly disagree with his views at times, I wish I had the general knowledge and interest in the aviation industry that he does. And I wish I could say I would be as non-plussed about all the slack that he gets as he seems to be. I would have given up on this forum in disgust by now.

Keep it up Ceilidh. It is good to have two points of view on issues - whether it be playing devil's advocate or simply stating the truth.


User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2397 times:

I've read nothing in Ceilidh's posts about hatred toward Belgians. He has doubted, criticized and questioned certain Belgian institutions and organizations which is fair. This hardly means he hates Belgians. Stop taking his comments personally and instead argue his points. Personal attacks on him detract from the your own arguments.

User currently offlineLj From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4401 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2365 times:

As usual some forum members feel attacked if someone is putting something on this board which isn't exactly pro-Belgian.

But does anybody has any insight in the real load factors + yields on the DAT flights? Apperantly not. Personanally I've some doubts about how DAT is doing. This is supported by some reports on PPRuNe. However, I may be wrong.

Regards
Laurens


User currently offlineLumumba From Belgium, joined Mar 2001, 369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2368 times:

O.K but d'ont throw stupid rumour's.
He do it to feel important?
And after all he became agesif.
And start to argue with non aviation stories.
Regards.


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 23, posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2327 times:

I have no idea whether Ceilidh is correct or not with what he's posted. I do know that whenever he puts something on here, then he just receives abuse from several members, along the lines of "you're stupid, you don't know what you're talking about". Well, I do have a fair knowledge of the aviation industry having worked as an airline manager for several years. Whilst I disagree with some of what he says there is an awful lot more I agree with, and I find it intensely irritating when people simply slag him off rather than putting forward a cogent argument as to why he might be wrong - and I notice that he rarely retaliates which is to his credit.

Unfortunately some people react because they don't wish it to be true, rather than anything else.

As for constantly having a go at Caledonian Wings, I have read the various articles on him. I don't know whether they are true or not - I keep an open mind, which is more than can be said for some - but since more than 90% of startups fail anyway, it is no disgrace that he hasn't achieved a viable operation, regardless of what I think of the likelihood of success. It is also irrelevant to the subject matter of his post.

So, please state WHY you disagree with him. Freedom of speech allows those who have varying degrees of knowledge of the commercial realities of air travel to pass comment, which is a bonus of forums like this, but it does not allow you to fling bile at any person you disagree with. It simply reinforces what someone like Ceilidh says. To a neutral if appears that you just don't want to know the truth, which is I suspect the last impression you wish to create.



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineGerardo From Spain, joined May 2000, 3481 posts, RR: 31
Reply 24, posted (12 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2311 times:

WOW! At the end, this thread has 23 replies, but mostly ending in discussions about the right of free speech.

Could we get back to the topic?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Now, we have this rumour, which is NOT from Celidh, but came up in another discussion forum (PPrune).

We have th statement of Mr Airbus: "Last Friday all the employees from the bank got informed way to bank is going to invest in the new airline. The bank thinks it will work, that there is room for the new carrier."

OK, this banks believes in the success of DAT.

Then, we have a fair question of Laurens: "does anybody has any insight in the real load factors + yields on the DAT flights?"

Do we have any CONSTRUCTIVE opinions or facts, proving that DAT is either going positive or going towards a near end?

Regards
Gerardo



dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
25 Aussie_ : I am hardly in the know being here in Australia but from my regular readings of several forums plus my interest in Belgian aviation (I am half belgian
26 Tca256 : Banco, Nobody harassed Ceilidh for his point of views but for his insulting posts, there's a difference between the free of speech and the spreading o
27 Tca256 : Aussie, I heard also about that flight with only one passenger, that's a tragedy if this case happens to be true...That means there's a hug lack of co
28 Banco : TCA256, OK, fair comment.
29 Hkgspotter1 : Maybe a carrier with a fleet of L1011's or 767's could come along and take over Belgium ??. Anyway there is one thing we have to credit Sabena and DAT
30 Air Orange : For you all: these actions and re-actions are becoming like a good Belgian strip like Suske and Wiske. Stay calm it is just Monday. By the way Suske a
31 Lj : According to the gossip I'm hearing the biggest investor will be Fortis NV. They haven't lost any money last time (the old Sabena) and considering tha
32 TriStar : Well well well, look what the cat dragged in... Why am I not surprised to see who caused this row? Tss tss tss.
33 Banco : TCA256, the post from Tristar is EXACTLY what I'm complaining about!
34 Gerardo : 10 or 20% load factor is indeed under every limit. But nobody with a clear mind woud expect the new airline to start up as a rocket. The confidence in
35 MrAirbus : I know that the bank I work for will be investing in the new company, at least if the other investors will do the same. The banks I know of that will
36 Air Orange : Dankjewel!/Merci-bien!
37 Tca256 : Does any of you watch TV yesterday about the CEO of VLM talking over his project to launch a company serving the West coast from Brussels ? that sound
38 SN-A330 : Hi Tca256, What you're talking about is being discussed in another thread here. It's titled : "Possible New Belgian Airline" Regards, SN-A330
39 MrAirbus : You're Welcome / Graag gedaan!!! Mr Airbus
40 TriStar : Banco, I understand your point of view. However, it's a matter of action/reaction. Some of us have suffered worse comments than other's disappointment
41 Banco : Tristar, I have read these forums for quite some time and have heard all sides. My problem is not that you disagree with him, but that very often it d
42 TriStar : Just now, I crossread the thread, which I hadn't done before. (I tend to quickly pass over things like this, for obvious reasons.) Turns out I wasn't
43 Post contains images Sterne82 : Hi all, From three Belgian newspapers (le soir, la libre belgique, and ... le metro); Dat have just launched a 50 Euros (I've not found the symbol on
44 Lj : Guess which airline already filed a complaint against the promotional offer of DAT. Yes it's LH again. seems as if LH wants to get rid of DAT as soon
45 Tca256 : I confirm Laurens writings, 50euro per flight (not return, just one shot) and on all their destinations...I'm definitely tempted to give my bucks and
46 Twaneedsnohelp : dat-airlines.com
47 Slz396 : Incredible!!! That's even a far better deal then at Ryanair!!! (seems they are no longer Belgium's cheapest airline as they claim... although they nev
48 Post contains links and images Ceilidh : Hmmmm, according to http://www.ryanair.com their fares ex Charleroi are as follows: London STN: €4 Prestwick, Dublin and Shannon: €14 Carcassonne,
49 Post contains images Apuneger : Hmmm...it's Wednesday and DAT still exists...How strange Long live DAT and every other Belgian airline Ivan
50 Coyoteguy : Not really strange, when you look who posted the ridiculous speculation in the first place! And he usually likes to paint himself as a know it all...
51 Slz396 : I know Ryanair is generally really cheap, but this time they are beaten, Ceilidh. As a proof let's compare the real price of a trip on both dat and Ry
52 Slz396 : I have travelled on Ryanair in the past and I know that you have to be very lucky to actually benifit from the very low prices they announce in their
53 Post contains images Slz396 :
54 Post contains links Slz396 : Twaneedsnohelp, the dat website is also accessible via the usual site: http://www.sabena.com
55 Post contains images Ceilidh : Slz396 - fair enough! Of course, until LH complained, as I understand it from the original posts on this subject, DAT was also working on the basis of
56 Slz396 : I know Ryanair often has unbeatable prices (but only on a limited number of destinations and with a lot of rules). However, I have also found out by p
57 Tca256 : well said Slz396 !!
58 Go Canada! : I feel that ryanair offer better value for money. London stansted airport is an excellent airport with excellent links to the centre of london. If DAT
59 D-AQUI : As to the complaints of LH against the DAT-offer, they are understandable from a competition point of view. The financial assets to launch the 50̈́
60 Tca256 : GoCanada, Slz396 explained well why Ryanair isn't in a so-called good position to beat DAT on London flights! First of all, not all Belgians traveller
61 Lj : Tca256, you're not entirely correct. Any fare which is considered as "dumping" (thus selling the seats below the cost price of a seat) is illegal. DAT
62 Slz396 : Indeed LJ, I think a lot of companies and certainly LH should stop acting like professional hypocrites! Each time a competitor shows up on the horizon
63 Banco : As I recall, DBA complained to the European Commission about LH's tactics and were told it was a matter for the German Office of Fair Trading. They de
64 Ceilidh : For what it's worth, I hear that both Ryanair and easyJet have applied for slots at Zaventem. That should put the cat amongst the pigeons! D-AQUI - I
65 Slz396 : A very personal reflection on our free European single market. I am certainly the very last person on earth to oppose to a completely harmonized europ
66 Lj : Slz396, the KPN - Belgacom example is one of the worst you could have taken. If they would have merged they could indeed challenge large oeprators abr
67 Slz396 : I have only seen Easyjet has applied for slots at BRU. (destinations would be Belfast, Stansted and Liverpool) Anyway, several other companies also ha
68 Slz396 : Even a merger between Belgacom and KPN would not have created a company similar to Deutsche Telekom or France telecom. Besides, Belgacom (being profit
69 Ceilidh : I'd suspect that there will be legal challenges to the transfer of the slots from SN to DAT as this is seen as being at best anticompetitive and at wo
70 Banco : slz396, Many of the small countries of Europe, such as Belgium are the drivers behind the current desire for European integration, in the face of oppo
71 Post contains images Slz396 : You are 100% correct Banco, except for your last remark I (just like you) feel the European integration is the only way to go, but sadly it started of
72 Post contains images Banco : slz396, I'm appalled that that is what you think I am espousing! Far from wishing to encourage a federal Europe I believe the UK should leave the EU a
73 Post contains images Slz396 : You didn't... You experienced what is called irony when I wrote: "I (just like you) feel that..." Anyway, good luck with your hard fought independance
74 Lj : Slz396, just look at the UK. Untill a couple of years ago BA controlled the domestic market. However, they lost a lot of market share in this market t
75 Slz396 : Lj, I agree we all have to gain from an open and fair market, but your point of view on what is fair is just so typical for what we in Belgium call Du
76 Post contains images Ceilidh : Slz396 - major difference. KLM is a large and very successful carrier; the Netherlands is an economically growing country which attracts top ranking i
77 Gerardo : I would disagree in some points: - Schiphol IS an inportant airport in Europe - KLM IS an important airline in Europe Holland has always been a big pl
78 Slz396 : Ceilidh, you've totally missed my point here. All I want to show is that Holland may certainnly look and act better then Belgium (Austria, Denmark, Ir
79 Post contains images Ceilidh : Slz396 - the bit about the Wim was slightly tongue in cheek. Did you know that - according to an Antwerper friend of mine - Scots are Dutchmen that le
80 Lj : Slz396, I agree that The Netherlands isn't important in political matters as Germany, France or the UK but I really don't care about this. We, in The
81 Stratofish : Actually the British airlines should gain advatage over the rest of Europe because of their currency. The GBP is well stronger than the EURO and as lo
82 Slz396 : LJ, I didn't mean to insult you in any way! I just pointed out a basic weakness inherent to being situated in a country with a very limited domestic m
83 A330 : Just read the topic in a quick way, but one thing: Ceilidh, at least DAT is flying, yours never will...
84 Post contains images Ceilidh : Stratofish - haven't you done economics yet? A strong currency disincentivises exports - or in this case the sale of airline tickets. It also means re
85 Post contains images Banco : Well now, if size was the crucial issue in a country's economic wellbeing, then the likes of Hong Kong and Singapore would have been abject failures.
86 BelugaBoy : Banco, I think it depends on from what side you are looking at it, it makes sence what you say but ... I'm also convinced that if you want a strong EU
87 A330 : Ceilidh, I would if I had any, anyway, if you ever do reach succes in starting the operation, all the luck to you and if you need a pilot, I am availa
88 TriStar : Bedankt, A330. Same here!
89 Pat : The only thing I can say about this topic is that it's not amazing at all that it has been launched by Ceilidh... ... ... and this has been done on p
90 Post contains images Go Canada! : oh im sorry i didnt know i have been confused by the aviation industry and by low-cost carriers, i wonder when that happened? oh look im losing my mem
91 Post contains images Ceilidh : Banco - what you've said makes a great deal of sense and I agree with it. Yes, I think that the time will come for political union at some point in th
92 Banco : It remains a possibility that the whole thing will come crashing down. The evidence is that European economies are actually moving further apart rathe
93 Ceilidh : From today's Telegraph: EU firm line on state aid - even if top airlines fail By Alistair Osborne (Filed: 23/11/2001) THE European Commission warned y
94 Banco : I hardly think that the recent Sabena/DAT episode was maintaining "a firm line" on state aid. Let me get this straight, your national airline can go b
95 Lj : Jean Trichet will NOT take over as president of the ECB midway as Trichet has been is a suspect in a fraud case in France. Just some news. Lufthansa i
96 Banco : Lj, Yes, you're right, I'd forgotten about that. Do you know who is in line to replace him? Mind you, it shows what a stunning original choice he was.
97 Ceilidh : Banco - I agree. Furthermore, I believe that the transfer of assets (the slots) to DAT constituted fraud against SN's creditors. The loan which was tr
98 Post contains images Stratofish : One thing is for sure: the current situation of the airline industry will not (in any way) help to increase people´s confidence in the EU. I will not
99 Banco : Stratofish, Sterling is marginally stronger against the US dollar than the Euro, that's true. But it is more than offset by the 30% decline in yields
100 Ceilidh : Stratofish - am I correct in understanding that you are saying because it takes US$1.45 to buy £1, then the people of the UK are better off?
101 Ceilidh : Stratofish - am I correct in understanding that you are saying because it takes US$1.45 to buy £1, then the people of the UK are better off?
102 Airbuspilot : PPPFFFFFFFFFfffffffffffffffff...........
103 Lj : Ceillidh , everybody knows that DAT has to repay the loan (or better the amount they used) within 3 months after they start using it. Thus DAT must re
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