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TheRedBaron From Mexico, joined Mar 2005, 3083 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 28656 times:
Well we are now on part 82 of the never ending saga of this tragedy....a few remarks I want to make that were on the last thread.
I think the sole existence of some withheld info on the waypoints of Captain Z computer, either means that someone knows he is guilty of manslaughter and for some sinister reason the data is being withheld. Or the info is a red herring just to confuse investigative work and put the Blame on the pilots (most probably on Z).
The flapperon found is a 777 one but if my info is correct has not 100% linked to the missing plane but probability is VERY high.
The search Zone is not that far from where the tragedy happened due to the probability of the ocean currents on the flapperon. We still need a biology report on the barnacles to asses the place where it floated.
The satcom power means someone was using the plane hours after being lost and it just adds that data, Why How or the reason is incomprensible at this time.
After seeing for countless (well 82) threads on this flight, I think the baffling data, the weird, occurrences, point to a malfunction of the weirdest kind (one like Pihero was stating back in the threads number 14-20) and that the crew flew a crippled plane for hours, now that JAL 123 fateful anniversary happened I thought "what IF" and the real reasons of this sad disaster is very far from being conclusive other than presuming all dead.
lancelot07 From Austria, joined Apr 2014, 865 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 28595 times:
Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 1): I think the sole existence of some withheld info on the waypoints of Captain Z computer,
Nothing is known about withheld data from Captain Z's computer. This story may be pure invention by someonne who wants to make some money off this tragedy.
Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 1): The satcom power means someone was using the plane hours after being lost and it just adds that data
Actually, it is not hourS. The time span is somewhere in the reports, iirc it is about one hour or less.
Kevil From Czech Republic, joined Nov 2014, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 28560 times:
I am absolutely convinced the MH370 crashed in the South China Sea. The flaperon found on Reunion island could drifted there from the South China Sea trough Malacca strait. This correspond with the latest sea current simulations here ("Just look how much red color is around Reunion if you pick Christmas Island as a starting point compared to current search area.")
There is just one reliable eyewitness of burning object (plane ?) in the area where the signal of the MH370 transponder has been lost Mike McKay, oil rig worker, who sent an email to Vietnamese authorities about his sighting. Although Mike McKay is living in New Zealand he was neither contacted by ATSB to hear his evidence nor mentioned in the ATSB report.
Pings reception does not exclude the MH370 crashed in the South China Sea in the area of seventh ring (the same area mentioned by Mike McKay) where the plane or part of the wreckage with SATCOM transmitter could remain floating for some time.
7BOEING7 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 2184 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 28428 times:
Quoting Kevil (Reply 3): Pings reception does not exclude the MH370 crashed in the South China Sea in the area of seventh ring (the same area mentioned by Mike McKay) where the plane or part of the wreckage with SATCOM transmitter could remain floating for some time.
The plane may have been floating but the SATCOM would not be transmitting, so?
777Jet From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 4923 posts, RR: 23
Reply 6, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 28255 times:
Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 1): I think the sole existence of some withheld info on the waypoints of Captain Z computer, either means that someone knows he is guilty of manslaughter and for some sinister reason the data is being withheld. Or the info is a red herring just to confuse investigative work and put the Blame on the pilots (most probably on Z).
IMHO the waypoints would either strengthen or weaken the Captain did it scenario, that is why I hoped they would be released.
If the waypoints strengthen the Captain did it scenario, then so be it - release them so it is known.
If the waypoints weaken the Captain did it scenario, then so be it - release them so it is known.
If the waypoints have nothing to do at all with the planes supposed flight route or SIO area where it is supposed to have ended up then I would love them to be released so that the waypoints can't be used to point to the Captain.
Some in the media, including Byron Bailey, link the waypoints / erased data / FBI all together in a way that IMHO attempts to strengthen the Captain did it scenario, that is why, I hope, if there is no relevance to the waypoints, they would be released so that they can't be used towards the Captain did it scenario.
If the release of the waypoint data would result in the waypoints not being able to point to the Captain then I hope they would be released for him / his family.
As I've always said, whilst I still think the Captain did it scenario ticks the most boxes, I don't really care what happened - like most of us - I just want the plane to be found and the cause to be known so improvements can be made.
Quoting Kevil (Reply 3): I am absolutely convinced the MH370 crashed in the South China Sea. The flaperon found on Reunion island could drifted there from the South China Sea trough Malacca strait.
I would think that had the captain been planning this all along, meticulously, then the home simulator would have been another thing he would have spoofed, a double red herring.
Of course, had the Malaysian government wanted to frame the captain as a nut job political opponent (with some dark personal secrets), I'm sure they would have- so far I've seen no such indication.
777Jet From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 4923 posts, RR: 23
Reply 8, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 27534 times:
Quoting liquidair (Reply 7): Of course, had the Malaysian government wanted to frame the captain as a nut job political opponent (with some dark personal secrets), I'm sure they would have- so far I've seen no such indication.
Are you aware that not all governments, particularly in some parts of the world, would take the opportunity to score a few cheap political points if it meant admitting that one of their own citizens was responsible for such an act?
EgyptAir 990 is such an example - 'An Egyptian would never do something like this' - was the Egyptian Government's line despite the evidence. They were trying to protect the reputation of their own people. Whilst MH370 might have had been underpinned by politics and EgyptAir 990 was a different matter, the principle of not blaming one of you own in order to protect the reputation of your citizens / nationals is the same.
*If* the Malaysian Government believed or even knew that the Captain was responsible for causing MH370 to vanish and came out trying to discredit the opposition by linking / blaming him then IMHO it could damage the reputation of Malaysians and Malaysian Pilots. That would be the last thing Malaysia or MH would need.
oxymorph From Sweden, joined Oct 2014, 156 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 27367 times:
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 8): Are you aware that not all governments, particularly in some parts of the world, would take the opportunity to score a few cheap political points if it meant admitting that one of their own citizens was responsible for such an act?
They already made a very calculated decision that the risk/reward of blaming Z was on balance not in their best interest. Thus, the cover-up and subsequent behavior.
Unfortunately, for those despicable thugs, the stakes are now even higher and the walls are closing in. IF they are forced to finally lay culpability at his (Zaharie's) feet, the ensuing fallout will be nothing short of instability and quasi-anarchy. I just don't see this ending well for the regime,, but maybe they still have another card to play.
You see, once the finger is pointed, aside from all the other ramifications, the big question will be WHY. Why did this nice man do something so horrible? And believe you me, this is what Hishammuddin and Najib have been fearing all along.
abba From Denmark, joined Jun 2005, 1506 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 27295 times:
Quoting oxymorph (Reply 9): They already made a very calculated decision that the risk/reward of blaming Z was on balance not in their best interest. Thus, the cover-up and subsequent behavior.
While 777Jet admits that he/she is speculating - which is ok - you come with yet another totally unfounded claim. You don't KNOW what the Malaysian government thought. That would require access to material that you will never see. You can SUSPECT/SPECULATE/BELIEVE but not claim to know.
Quoting oxymorph (Reply 9): Unfortunately, for those despicable thugs, the stakes are now even higher and the walls are closing in. IF they are forced to finally lay culpability at his (Zaharie's) feet, the ensuing fallout will be nothing short of instability and quasi-anarchy. I just don't see this ending well for the regime,, but maybe they still have another card to play.
Completely unlikely. The Malaysian government MIGHT loose some goodwill in the general population, perhaps (I doubt it - few if any will care at all. They know that this has happened before in Singapore). The government might further discredit the opposition a little bit as they did with the sodomy trial of their former number two in Malaysia's political hierarchy, Anwar Ibrahim. But save for that....
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 8): *If* the Malaysian Government believed or even knew that the Captain was responsible for causing MH370 to vanish and came out trying to discredit the opposition by linking / blaming him then IMHO it could damage the reputation of Malaysians and Malaysian Pilots. That would be the last thing Malaysia or MH would need.
That is not nice, certainly. Now they can blame Malaysian maintenance instead. I don't know if that is so much better....
To put it in another way: if they blame Z they can share the blame with the opposition (and even justify a certain berufsverbot when it comes to members and supporters of the opposition: "You never know what these people will be up to - just look at Z") . And I think that this is the reason why that have been hinting - as much as the lack of evidence allow - in the direction of Z without saying anything specific and letting it be up to peoples' own imagination to speculate as to a motive. If it is technical problem and thereby most likely maintenance failure then they have no one to share the blame with. They have to take the full load of blame on their own shoulders as they stand back as those who have not been showing due diligence.
To put it frankly. It is under all circumstances not good for neither HM nor Malaysia as such to loose their planes. That doesn't matter if they fly their plans into an unfriendly sky, their pilots committing suicide or their maintenance being sloppy. However, "the pilot did it" if the same pilot was a supporter of the opposition will allow the government to share the blame with others. And that might be why the government seems only to indirectly point at Z and not his co-pilot who would not fit that bill.
TheFlyingDisk From Malaysia, joined Jun 2008, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 27159 times:
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 8):
*If* the Malaysian Government believed or even knew that the Captain was responsible for causing MH370 to vanish and came out trying to discredit the opposition by linking / blaming him then IMHO it could damage the reputation of Malaysians and Malaysian Pilots. That would be the last thing Malaysia or MH would need.
Nope. It gives the Malaysian government quick points against Anwar and his cohorts & help neutralize dissent against them so the small dent in the nation's reputation is something worth taking (and they've done so many times in the past - they charged Anwar with sodomy for god's sake, despite the fact that America & other Western country reacted strongly against it). Plus they can easily worm their way out of it by saying Zaharie's a bit loco in the head. In the Germanwings case, certainly Lufthansa's reputation, as well as German pilot's reputation did not suffer terribly when revelation of Lubitz's suicidal tendancies came about - heck, we've stopped talking about them now!
Quoting oxymorph (Reply 9): They already made a very calculated decision that the risk/reward of blaming Z was on balance not in their best interest. Thus, the cover-up and subsequent behavior.
Utterly laughable. It is DEFINITELY IN THEIR BEST INTEREST to put the blame solely on Anwar, especially in light of what's happened in the months past. Seriously, they're probably kicking themselves for NOT exploiting the whole Zaharie-Anwar connection when they had a chance.
As for the "cover-up", it is nothing more a case of confusion added with ego. Before MH370 the worst accident to happen in Malaysian history occurred in 1977. All who handled that case are probably dead or retired (and just so you know, the Prime Minister at the time was Hishammuddin's father) and those who are currently handling the case had only theoretical know how but not the practical skills. Added to the fact that their theoretical knowledge is predicated on the fact that the wreck is not lost, which is not what's happening in this case, and you got a case of massive confusion.
Ironically the other MH crash is a textbook case of a cover up being attempted!
oxymorph From Sweden, joined Oct 2014, 156 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 27018 times:
Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 11): . Plus they can easily worm their way out of it by saying Zaharie's a bit loco in the head.
No, they can't. 17 months and one FI later and nothing of the sort has been suggested. They would have to contradict their own 'laboriously' produced FI which stated that NO history of mental illness, recent or past, was detected.
Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 11): In the Germanwings case, certainly Lufthansa's reputation, as well as German pilot's reputation did not suffer terribly when revelation of Lubitz's suicidal tendancies came about
Terrible comparison. Completely different situations and motives...nice try.
Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 11): As for the "cover-up", it is nothing more a case of confusion added with ego
And you know this how? Your feigned objectivity takes a big hit here with this contention. Bottom line: IF Z is the culpable actor (and he of course is), the cover up is anything but what you describe. Your neighbor Hishammuddin has known since the morning of the 8th that Zaharie stole the a/c. How could he not?
TheFlyingDisk From Malaysia, joined Jun 2008, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 26924 times:
Quoting oxymorph (Reply 12): No, they can't. 17 months and one FI later and nothing of the sort has been suggested. They would have to contradict their own 'laboriously' produced FI which stated that NO history of mental illness, recent or past, was detected.]
Of course they're not suggesting it - simply because they never wanted to in the first place. The Zaharie-Anwar connection wasn't even discovered by the local media, it was the Daily Mail from the UK, hardly a pro-Malaysian government news outlet now is it?
Fact is, if they had wanted to play the whole Zaharie-Anwar connection they'd played it, and played it hard. There's zero logic in them NOT doing anything and being coy about it. In fact, their reticence over this matter actually helped Zaharie if that's what he wanted in the first place as it brought a heap of bad press on the Malaysian government!
Quoting oxymorph (Reply 12): And you know this how? Your feigned objectivity takes a big hit here with this contention. Bottom line: IF Z is the culpable actor (and he of course is), the cover up is anything but what you describe. Your neighbor Hishammuddin has known since the morning of the 8th that Zaharie stole the a/c. How could he not? ]
Unlike you, who probably gets his info about Malaysia from Wikipedia I am a Malaysian living in Malaysia & have dealt with Malaysian government bureaucracy from the lowest to director level. I can assure you, the higher up the bureaucracy you go, the bigger the ego. And the Malaysian government couldn't cover up a hole in the ground, let alone something as big as MH370. Take a look at Russia's attempt at covering up MH17 and you can see a big difference. I'm fairly certain that a lot of the actions of Malaysian officials are that of confused people who are too proud to request help when they know they're not able to handle the situation - especially Westerners. I've seen it many times before on a small scale & I saw it in the press conferences. It's something that locals are just too aware of but something that foreigners can't catch easily.
Your case for a cover up doesn't make even one logical sense despite having read almost all of the 82 long and laborious threads on this matter. And your brusque manner have driven many knowledgable posters away thus depriving us of any intelligent debate. The only reason I'm here is just to correct the many repeated misinformation you've posted over and over again. I'm willing to admit that Zaharie may have perpetrated mass murder, but I am not going to throw a dead man under the bus unless there is conclusive proof (even if he was an Anwar supporter, whom I never was fond of). And your own proof are flimsy to say the least.
Call me a shill if you like, but my conscience is clear. I am nobody's paid troll.
777Jet From Australia, joined Mar 2014, 4923 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 26883 times:
Quoting abba (Reply 10): While 777Jet admits that he/she is speculating - which is ok
For the record 777JET is a 'he'
Quoting abba (Reply 10): And that might be why the government seems only to indirectly point at Z and not his co-pilot who would not fit that bill.
It wouldn't look good for the government / ruling party if they tried to blame the FO given that his father is some kind of 'government official'.
Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 11): In the Germanwings case, certainly Lufthansa's reputation, as well as German pilot's reputation did not suffer terribly when revelation of Lubitz's suicidal tendancies came about - heck, we've stopped talking about them now!
Maybe because the German / French authorities came out telling the truth and were open and transparent from the very beginning, unlike the Malaysians who have told lies as well as done a good job at obfuscating any information relating to MH370.
I don't want to use the term 'culture' because some will call me a racist and whatever other terms float their boat, but pilot suicide cases are be handled differently in different parts of the world.
Some nations / cultures have no problem accepting the truth, but others can't seem to accept what one of their own people's could be capable of -(again, EgyptAir 990 is an example, as well as SilkAir 185).
Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 11): It is DEFINITELY IN THEIR BEST INTEREST to put the blame solely on Anwar
They can't put the blame solely on Anawr because Anwar was not in the cockpit, but it wouldn't surprise me if the current circus mob tried
abba From Denmark, joined Jun 2005, 1506 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 26882 times:
Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 13): Fact is, if they had wanted to play the whole Zaharie-Anwar connection they'd played it, and played it hard. There's zero logic in them NOT doing anything and being coy about it. In fact, their reticence over this matter actually helped Zaharie if that's what he wanted in the first place as it brought a heap of bad press on the Malaysian government!
Spot on!
Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 13): Unlike you, who probably gets his info about Malaysia from Wikipedia I am a Malaysian living in Malaysia & have dealt with Malaysian government bureaucracy from the lowest to director level. I can assure you, the higher up the bureaucracy you go, the bigger the ego. And the Malaysian government couldn't cover up a hole in the ground, let alone something as big as MH370. Take a look at Russia's attempt at covering up MH17 and you can see a big difference. I'm fairly certain that a lot of the actions of Malaysian officials are that of confused people who are too proud to request help when they know they're not able to handle the situation - especially Westerners. I've seen it many times before on a small scale & I saw it in the press conferences. It's something that locals are just too aware of but something that foreigners can't catch easily.
Having lived in the region for a long period of my life and worked closely with Malay people (some of whom to this day is among my closest friends) I think you are spot on here. And of cause you know much better than I!
Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 13): The only reason I'm here is just to correct the many repeated misinformation you've posted over and over again. I'm willing to admit that Zaharie may have perpetrated mass murder, but I am not going to throw a dead man under the bus unless there is conclusive proof (even if he was an Anwar supporter, whom I never was fond of). And your own proof are flimsy to say the least.
Now, you know the situation much better than I, but if Zaharie as many reports suggest was at least a religious skeptic - if not a downright atheist - I find it very difficult to believe that he should be so attached to a religious politician such as Anwar that he would commit suicide in his support....
If he did it, he might have had a rather different reason, I believe.
TheRedBaron From Mexico, joined Mar 2005, 3083 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 26856 times:
Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 13): Unlike you, who probably gets his info about Malaysia from Wikipedia I am a Malaysian living in Malaysia & have dealt with Malaysian government bureaucracy from the lowest to director level. I can assure you, the higher up the bureaucracy you go, the bigger the ego. And the Malaysian government couldn't cover up a hole in the ground, let alone something as big as MH370. Take a look at Russia's attempt at covering up MH17 and you can see a big difference. I'm fairly certain that a lot of the actions of Malaysian officials are that of confused people who are too proud to request help when they know they're not able to handle the situation - especially Westerners. I've seen it many times before on a small scale & I saw it in the press conferences. It's something that locals are just too aware of but something that foreigners can't catch easily.
Your case for a cover up doesn't make even one logical sense despite having read almost all of the 82 long and laborious threads on this matter. And your brusque manner have driven many knowledgable posters away thus depriving us of any intelligent debate. The only reason I'm here is just to correct the many repeated misinformation you've posted over and over again. I'm willing to admit that Zaharie may have perpetrated mass murder, but I am not going to throw a dead man under the bus unless there is conclusive proof (even if he was an Anwar supporter, whom I never was fond of). And your own proof are flimsy to say the least.
Many thanks for this excellent post. I know sometimes is very difficult to explain the idiosyncrasies of our cultures and nationalities, in these events. THANKS.
TheFlyingDisk From Malaysia, joined Jun 2008, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 26837 times:
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 14): Maybe because the German / French authorities came out telling the truth and were open and transparent from the very beginning, unlike the Malaysians who have told lies as well as done a good job at obfuscating any information relating to MH370.
Do you mind pointing out the lies then?
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 14): It wouldn't look good for the government / ruling party if they tried to blame the FO given that his father is some kind of 'government official'.
Actually, they could have blamed the FO if they wanted to & not gotten any slack - Fariq's father is a high ranking civil servant in the state of Selangor, which is actually governed by Anwar's coalition.
Furthermore I have here a Malay news report by The Malaysian Insider about Fariq's father (you can Google Translate it http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/b...g-mh370-rasa-anaknya-masih-hidup). What I want to highlight is the picture accompanying the report below & its caption which I've translated for your reference
Quote: The Chief Minister of Kelantan, Datuk Ahmad Yakub (right) with his deputy, Datuk Mohamad Amar Nik Abdullah visited the father of the MAS co-pilot of flight MH370, Abdul Hamid Mohd Daud in Shah Alam, today
This picture is important because of two things - that is
a) The state of Kelantan is ruled by the Islamic Party of Malaysia, which at the time of MH370's loss was part of Anwar's coalition. Just for the info of those who are not aware of Malaysia's political scene - Anwar's People's Coalition controls 3 major states in Malaysia, Selangor (which is the state surrounding the country's capital Kuala Lumpur & where KUL is actually located), Penang & Kelantan (which is one of the states close to the Thai border & is actually not far from IGARI, where the plane's final contact was received).
b) Fariq's father was the ONLY ONE who received this visit from the Kelantan Chief Minister.
Now Chief Ministers in Malaysia don't go out of their way to visit people who are not allied with them (sad but true fact), so it can only mean one thing really - Fariq's father has ties with the Islamic party.
TheFlyingDisk From Malaysia, joined Jun 2008, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 26813 times:
Quoting abba (Reply 15): Now, you know the situation much better than I, but if Zaharie as many reports suggest was at least a religious skeptic - if not a downright atheist - I find it very difficult to believe that he should be so attached to a religious politician such as Anwar that he would commit suicide in his support....
To be honest with you, I really don't think he really is an atheist. The supposition that he's an atheist came from his YouTube history I believe but then we can watch anything we want on YouTube and it don't mean much. However, Anwar nowadays is not as religious as he was during his early days. His party now holds support from the liberal professional Malaysians - so it's not really surprising
Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 13): despite having read almost all of the 82 long and laborious threads on this matter.
as well as media coverage on MH370.
That the plane was not detected and then was detected by radar was one of the good ones.
I could keep going on but you said you have read all of the threads so you know about the lies and obfuscation.
Or, are you happy to just call a complete reverse / change in story a mistake rather than a lie?
Anyway, I appreciate your effort and contributions. It's good to hear the perspective of a Malaysian, but, FWIW, I'm still not convinced (where have we heard that before) on your point that the government would indeed take the chance to fully blame Anwar through the link to Z.
enzo011 From Ireland, joined Jun 2011, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 26763 times:
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 19): I could keep going on but you said you have read all of the threads so you know about the lies and obfuscation.
Or, are you happy to just call a complete reverse / change in story a mistake rather than a lie?
Anyway, I appreciate your effort and contributions. It's good to hear the perspective of a Malaysian, but, FWIW, I'm still not convinced (where have we heard that before) on your point that the government would indeed take the chance to fully blame Anwar through the link to Z.
I haven't read all of the pages, could you please bring list the lies from the Government?
""But the new factual information report does lay out what Malaysia’s military radar saw of the diversion of the intended flight path of MH370 with a level of clarity and unambiguity that points directly to the inexplicable lying by the government early in the story that it hadn’t seen any such thing.
The authorities segued toward the truth by eventually saying it was possible that something had been seen, and then saying that having shown the data to the US NTSB as it did, it had been told there was something there that merited closer examination.
After that it repudiated its earlier lies and seemed to think that somehow everyone would forget about it.
Among the liars was the acting Minister for transport, Hishammuddin Hussein, but who seemed to forget what he was saying back in March 2014 when on 1 May last year has posted a Facebook entry saying that cabinet knew on the morning of the flight’s disappearance the military had seen MH370 cross the Malay Peninsula after its transponders went off line rendering the flight invisible to civil air traffic control radars.
Yet 12 days later, on March 20, he was still insisting that the northern hemisphere and southern hemisphere “arcs” were search areas of equal importance.
That was a serious, material and damaging deception. It spread the assets available at short notice for the search much wider than they should have been. But Why? This was as compellingly dishonest as the PM of Malaysia, Najib Razak, urging that search assets be sent deeper into the South China Sea and further north into Asia, when all along he knew what his military knew.""
You can find plenty of articles, plenty, on the various lies if you just try...
Quote: As the search for the missing flight MH370 continues for the fifth straight day, Malaysia's air force chief has denied saying military radar had tracked the lost passenger jet turning back and flying to the Strait of Malacca.
The pro-government Berita Harian daily had quoted General Tan Sri Rodzali Daud (pic) as saying military radar at the Butterworth air force base believed it was tracking the Boeing 777-200ER jet until it disappeared at 2.40am last Saturday. "I wish to state that I did not make any such statements as above. What occurred was that the Berita Harian journalist asked me if such an incident occurred as detailed in their story. However, I did not give any answer to the question.
"Instead, what I said to the journalist was, 'Please refer to the statement which I made on 9 March 2014, during the press conference with the Chief of Defence Forces at the Sama-Sama Hotel, Kuala Lumpur International Airport'," the Royal Malaysian Air Force (RMAF) chief said in a statement late last night.
You should refer to this, his press conference on 9 March - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bld55A5V-9A. Technically he did tell the truth, he did not confirm that they've tracked the plane on radar but instead stated there is a possibility that the plane had turned back & they're checking the radar tapes. Remember, this is during the early days of the crisis & information was clearly fragmented.
And on March 12, they confirmed that they've found some indication that there is an unidentified radar plot. Here's the explanation - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RcUXvwB_8Q
The chiefs may not have communicated well enough but I've found no evidence that they've lied or obfuscated anything.
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 21): Among the liars was the acting Minister for transport, Hishammuddin Hussein, but who seemed to forget what he was saying back in March 2014 when on 1 May last year has posted a Facebook entry saying that cabinet knew on the morning of the flight’s disappearance the military had seen MH370 cross the Malay Peninsula after its transponders went off line rendering the flight invisible to civil air traffic control radars.
Which is corroborated with RMAF Chief's press conference on the 9th - there is a POSSIBILITY that the plane turned back, but they're not certain.
Funny thing is - you don't believe them when they took a long time to confirm the radar tracks, but when the announcement from the Prime Minister came that the flaperon was indeed from MH370, before the French finished their analysis you don't believe them either.
gzm From Cyprus, joined Aug 2014, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 26609 times:
The truth will eventually come from the French who have every reason to be impartial. Can you imagine what would happen if the flaperon had been found on a Malaysian coast? We might never get to know about it......
abba From Denmark, joined Jun 2005, 1506 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 26434 times:
Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 17): Actually, they could have blamed the FO if they wanted to & not gotten any slack - Fariq's father is a high ranking civil servant in the state of Selangor, which is actually governed by Anwar's coalition.
ah - so it must be him who got so p**** of by the Anwar verdict
Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 18): His party now holds support from the liberal professional Malaysians - so it's not really surprising
Which is not surprising, though. Recent studies of the Muslim revival movement in Malaysia - something Anwar at least in the past was very much at the center of with his chairmanship of Muslim youth organisations - actually had/has a strong appeal to young Malay people with a background in the traditional rural Islam of the country side who went to the cities where they became educated and thereby needed a fresh expression of their tradition that fit their new life situation. Personally I have met quite a few Malaysians who fit that bill rather well. They are well educated professionals and strong reformed Muslims - and their wives are often well educated, have good jobs - and were a scarf (which was not common among Muslims in this part of the world traditionally. At the days of Anwar's position as the right hand of Mahathier they were often seen on posters together and often with their wives. On these posters Mahathir's wife we rarely covered. Anwar's were always).
Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 18): The supposition that he's an atheist came from his YouTube history I believe but then we can watch anything we want on YouTube and it don't mean much.
I think a number of Facebook quotations also played a role here.
25 777Jet
: "Technically" - LOL About what I'd expect from you. I believed what was said about the flaperon only after it came from the French, not from Razak wh
26 TheFlyingDisk
: Well - did he lie or did he not lie? Read the statement in the article, "technically" is correct in this case. He didn't lie. Given what I've linked
27 777Jet
: Yes. He lied. Yes. They lied. "active step to actively obfuscate" - LOL. LOL again... They might not have taken ""any active step to actively obfusca
28 TheFlyingDisk
: Have you ever heard of the fog of war concept? This is a clear case of that. Very clear, if you look from the press conferences. The fragmented infor
29 777Jet
: Blame the West and the Western Press for the lies then! BTW - sorry if I forgot, but what do you think happened to MH370? Have a nice day, I'm going
30 oxymorph
: Anyone who believes Flying Disk's claims that Malaysia has neither lied nor purposefully obfuscated need only look at this interview with the former M
31 TheFlyingDisk
: This whole interview is laughable. It's nothing but a show of bravado against the incessant Western media by a man who's frustrated, angry & high
32 oxymorph
: Flying Disk: Although Hishammuddin says he is SURE that KLATC attempted to contact MH370 that morning (he says this after 2+ months of understanding w
33 WingedMigrator
: I appreciate that mindset. I only wish everyone had the same level of human decency as you!
34 TheFlyingDisk
: Didn't KLATC attempted to contact MH370 through aircraft relay of the other MH aircraft in the vicinity? Didn't they try to get MH to contact MH370 v
35 oxymorph
: My question, again, is why KLATC NEVER tried to contact MH370 directly? This seems to be a straightforward question, and, one would think, the first t
36 TheFlyingDisk
: They handed MH370 off to Ho Chi Minh ATC at 1.19 am, Malaysian time. So what about the contact attempt at 1.41 am Malaysian time as per the factual r
37 oxymorph
: Uhm here's what the factual report says about the actions of KLATCC after handoff: 1.1.2 Activities by Ground Air Traffic Controllers Thereafter At 1
38 mandala499
: Try: "1.18.1.4 KL ATCC Duty Shift System for Air Traffic Controllers" Page 97: At 1741:23 UTC [0141:23 MYT] KL ATCC radar controller made a “blind
39 oxymorph
: Okay, I see the one 'blind attempt' at 17:41. It's in section 1.18, Regardless, and regardless of purported VHF range, it is problematic that KLATCC m
40 abba
: No you are not. You are giving a very precise and quite objective analysis of what happens in the encounter between Malaysian government officials (a
41 mandala499
: HCM should make numerous attempts because it was supposed to go into their airspace. With KLATCC, 1 attempt isn't surprising, but the question is, di
42 TheFlyingDisk
: Simple - they weren't really watching the radar screens closely. Malaysia's threat board is basically empty and the typical Malaysian "never mind" sy
43 ltbewr
: What if this happened with an aircraft with an airline based anywhere but in the Islamic or South Asian areas of the world ? Would many be so quick to
44 WingedMigrator
: I disagree that it's unlikely. It's a matter of time, because a search of the sea floor is a painstaking and slow undertaking. Once the wreckage is l
45 777Jet
: If the wreckage is located. As far as I'm aware, if nothing substantial indicating the main wreckage site has been found on the sea floor upon comple
46 kurtjeter
: I know the AF 447 recorders were read out, even after a lengthy period of ocean-soaking, but I consider that more miraculous than something we should
47 777Jet
: I wouldn't call it miraculous; they are built to withstand quite some punishment. IMHO the opposite is more likely. Absolutely!
48 WingedMigrator
: I don't think the AF447 investigators found anything miraculous about reading out those recorders. The sea floor is quite a benign environment, at le
49 morsecoder
: One possibility: the analysis of the flaperon leads to a hypothesis about what the debris on the ocean floor looks like. Testing that hypothesis woul
50 777Jet
: For those interested, here is the link to one of the latest documentaries on MH370. I believe it was published this August. Sorry if it has been poste
51 namezero111111
: Thanks for posting this. I found it great that they focused on the technical aspects rather than placing undue and unsubstantiated blame.
53 FlyDeltaJetsATL
: Thanks for the link 777Jet! YoungMans will be interested in the comment at 26:04 about the possible 'hoax' regarding the data that Inmarsat first tho
54 Kevil
: I am absolutely convinced the MH370 crashed in the South China Sea. The flaperon found on Reunion island could drifted there from the South China Sea
55 mandala499
: Which by your link, shows it wouldn't have ended up on Reunion islands. And Christmas Island is what? 850 nautical miles south of Kuala Lumpur and th
56 Kevil
: It doesn't have nothing to do with the distance from Kuala Lumpur. Christmas Island is close to Malacca Strait. The flaperon could easily drifted the
57 pvjin
: Nope, if the aircraft had crashed in South China Sea most of the parts would have ended up in nearby islands. Even if some of the parts somehow manag
58 mandala499
: If it floated, wouldn't people try to get out? If it floated and had the satcom pings, while floating... the satcom would have had power from what? I
59 Kevil
: The MH370 could suffer major decompression caused by the airframe rupture as a result of an on board fire (toxic fumes) which could kill all passenge
60 David L
: That area was searched extensively in the days after MH370 was reported missing. There's no way MH370 went down in the Gulf of Thailand and floated f
61 mandala499
: So that, while the airplane broke up? Nice try. Sorry. Again, you lose satcom if the Left Main AC Bus is unpowered, the LGA antenna is DC powered but
62 Kevil
: "Kevil", I wrote what I thought might help the search but within two days of my email being leaked the search in the South China Sea was called-off.
63 David L
: What's your point? That all the other evidence should be rejected on the strength of one alleged eye witness? Bugger. That's "shipping lane", of cour
64 Kevil
: I don't think so but the area mentioned by Mike McKay should be thoroughly searched.
65 lancelot07
: Why ? A burning plane was allegedly seen by a lady on a sailing boat northwest of Sumatra, and a low flying plane was allegedly seen by a few islande
66 WingedMigrator
: Not just powered but fed with navigation data to steer the phased array high-gain antenna beam. Or is the HGA not needed for the pings and attempted
67 Kevil
: 9M-MRO was equiped with a low gain satellite antenna (source of this being photographs of Malaysia Airlines B777 fleet) so no beam steering/focussing
68 Kevil
: The difference is that Mike McKay is reliable professional and opposite to other witnesses he sent an email about his sighting to Vietnamese authorit
69 pvjin
: Him being an oil rig worker doesn't make him a professional when it comes to investigating aircraft accidents. The fact a part of MH370 was found fro
70 Kevil
: Claim that MH370 sought in wrong place In my previous posts I thought Sunda strait not Malacca strait, sorry.[Edited 2015-08-28 14:23:25]
71 WingedMigrator
: If we're going to go by photographs, the satcom high-gain phased array antennas are located above door 3 on both sides of the aircraft. View Large Vi
72 Kevil
: You are right. MH370 has the High Gain Antenna (LGA). See What We Know Now About MH370. From the text: "Don’s signal analysis of the three attempte
73 jpetekyxmd80
: This continual "theory" about a break up in the South China sea is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever seen in my entire life. Oh yeah, depi
74 mandala499
: Get your geography right if you want to make such outlandish claims and save yourself and other people time and energy. If you cannot get such key ge
75 Kevil
: I don't understand why area of the last known position of the MH370 hasn't been thoroughly searched to disprove sightings of Mike McKay. No single ra
76 pvjin
: Last known position of the flight has been thoroughly searched, I remember how they even released satellite imagery for the public to look at and see
77 lancelot07
: says who ? And professional in what ? Sending an email means nothing. Others gave interviews. Not meaning much either. If you don't remember, the Sou
78 Kevil
: German oceanographers claim that the MH370 search is way off-beam
79 pvjin
: It might be off beam, but the wreck is nowhere near South China Sea.
80 747megatop
: What happened to the flap found on Reunion island? Did the French make another announcement proving or disproving that it came from MH 370? If the fl
81 Kevil
: The French did not make any final announcement yet. Report on progress "in due course". Note the text (article and sea current simulations here Mick
82 lancelot07
: Nothing, when you click in the South China sea. No data for that area. But lots of islands and land around it.
83 jpetekyxmd80
: Did you try the one that makes your south china sea theory completely implausible if not impossible?
84 747megatop
: "We still need to identify a number that is inside the flaperon. It is a Spanish subcontracting company that owns that part. This company would be ab
85 TheFlyingDisk
: This Spanish company, they only have ONE staff that's able to identify the part? Why can't the French confirm it with, I don't know, the people who O
86 jpetekyxmd80
: The Boeing identification plate on the exterior has fallen off, which is not surprising, so they are forced to pick the flaperon apart and go back to
87 rj777
: Ok, remind me again why the part was sent to Toulouse instead of Seattle?
89 Kevil
: Unfortunately http://adrift.org.au/ does not have data for the South China Sea.
90 pvjin
: Yes, and with some common sense anyone can understand that most of the debris there would end up on shores of surrounding coasts and islands.
91 jpetekyxmd80
: Yes there is, for most of it. I clicked right where IGARI is and it worked fine. Not that this would convince you. The dozens of factual and common s
92 747megatop
: Flaperon dead end? http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/31/world/mh370-investigation/index.html "Now comes word that a Spanish company has told French investiga
93 lancelot07
: Not so fast ! They could not get the confirmation they wanted, but still nobody came forward with anything that suggests it might be from any other p
94 747megatop
: the investigators need not look any farther than a.net to get people to come forward with theories on how that flaperon came near Reunion island's co
95 solarflyer22
: Interesting analysis and I saw this on another article. I think they may be somewhat correct. I think the search location is too far south. I am amaz
96 777Jet
: The thing about common sense is that it is not very common The final ping could indicate the moment the plane ditched into the water if it ditched un
97 art
: I am a little mystified that the flaperon/flap/whatever found has not been linked to a particular aircraft. When the components used to assemble the f
98 na
: http://www.focus.de/wissen/technik/s...zort-von-mh370-vor_id_4916166.html The outcome of German scientists. They put 2 million virtual parts into the
99 lancelot07
: Anyone here missing a flaperon ? One of his own, proof of purchase and payment required!
100 Kevil
: This corresponds to the witness of Mike McKay. I am the same opinion the MH370 crashed in the South China Sea near the IGARI waypoint. The flaperon c
102 747megatop
: Then the wreckage would have been found & moreover the aircraft would not have sent pings for 7 hours after dropping off radar.
103 Kevil
: "Kevil", I wrote what I thought might help the search but within two days of my email being leaked the search in the South China Sea was called-off.
104 747megatop
: Nice fiction. A satcom transmitter minus all the associated electronics miraculously floats for 7 hours and transmits! . I won't be surprised if i he
105 Kevil
: The SATCOM Honeywell MCS-6000 has two 12 Volts 7 Ah backup batteries which is enough power for pings send each hour by Low Gain non directional anten
106 jpetekyxmd80
: Oh my God, are you still going with this utter nonsense? The coup de gras is you think this 777 crashed and broke up in shallow, heavily travelled wat
107 PlaneInsomniac
: This sounds like a major development, and I am somewhat surprised it is not getting picked up by the international media. Geomar is a very renowned o
108 na
: One thing needs to be added, they are still researching further into it, as so far they only have taken the currents into account, not wind a waves.
109 YoungMans
: The veracity of the satellite data which led to the current search area must not be doubted or even questioned. This was made clear to me, on these th
110 Kevil
: I asked the Czech Technical University, Faculty of Electrical Engineering in Prague to verify the Inmarsat calculation and I got their preliminary ans
111 mandala499
: Therefore your theory cannot be validated by that site. First... please re-read the following: Second... the antenna needs to know what frequency it
112 747megatop
: Which again miraculously floats for 7 hours while very other piece of debris including seat cushions, bodies etc. sink like a stone and nothing gets
113 YoungMans
: What exactly allows a flaperon to float? Does it have watertight compartments or are the materials lighter than water? How strong are the watertight c
114 WingedMigrator
: Aerodynamic flutter could do it. This flaperon may have found itself with no hydraulic pressure in a high speed spiral dive, experiencing violent osc
115 YoungMans
: Thanks for that. I can relate to that albeit on a big 4WD I had years ago. The steering wheels (front) went into such violent oscillations (on a norm
116 lancelot07
: It seems to be divided into compartments (for structural reasons), not necessarily sealed. If the material is light, the part can remain buoyant even
118 oxymorph
: Sure, it's possible. BUT, here we are once again confronted with explaining away another of the many 'coincidences' of MH370. From the diversion timi
119 Titania
: It is now confirmed that the flaperon found on Reunion Island a few weeks ago definitely belonged to MH370. Link below in French, it reproduces the of
120 lancelot07
: iirc, this is how AF447 was described. very good!
121 TheRedBaron
: Well with the confirmed flapper belonging to Mh370, we know know for sure: The plane did not land Was not high jacked to a remote location. Broke apar
122 WingedMigrator
: The trailing edge damage will tell the story of the failure mode: in a ditching scenario the loading will have been asymmetrical (top surface in comp
123 JoeCanuck
: I think the hinge points will tell us more as much as the trailing edge. They will show the exact angle of the hinge when the flaperon got torn off, w
124 747megatop
: Are you missing something?...well how about the conspiracy theorists who could (and will) poke hole in the conclusions that you just listed which wer
125 TheRedBaron
: I agree that some theories in this long and never-ending thread are downright ridiculous, but lets be honest it almost could (big could) have been an
126 breiz
: Thanks to this flaperon investigation, I now know that this particular part of the B777s is actually produced by Airbus. Small world. It is nice to se
127 lancelot07
: I understood that it was produced by a subcontractor working for both A and B, but not by Airbus.
128 BaconButty
: It was manufactured in Seville by Airbus Defence and Space (DS) curiously enough. An Airbus Subsidiary, Premium Aerotec, manufactures that rear press
129 AirlineCritic
: Hmm. A Boeing crashes and the only part that can be found and identified is manufactured by Airbus? Wow.
130 thunderboltdrgn
: I know that SAAB's aeroplane division produces parts for both Airbus and Boeing.
131 abba
: The satellite data are most likely not false. However, there can be a systematic error in the calculations no one has yet identified that could poten
132 Kevil
: An interesting article MH370: Is it really a mystery or a hide-and-seek conspiracy? From the text: The SATCOM terminal on MH370 had an internal batter
133 jpetekyxmd80
: "2. The arc from the final ping crosses South China Sea The arc from the final ping crosses the South China Sea but this part of the arc has been excl
134 lancelot07
: Yes, but the satellite data have given us only the 2 arcs, and the choice of the southern arc. Everything else has been derived from assumptions abou
135 mandala499
: From the damned manuals... SATCOM needs Left Main AC Bus to be powered to work... including pings and transmitting the AES ID, and all the other junk
136 Kevil
: I tried to contact Honeywell in my country to ask if the MCS-6000 SDU powered by internal (or main) battery can answer pings by Low Gain Antenna. Unf
137 mandala499
: I sent an email to Honeywell satcom a few years ago, and instead of answering my question regarding one of their manuals, they referred me to a satco
138 bikerthai
: Of all the honeycomb panels on the aircraft, the flaperon seems to have the best chance to stay afloat the longest. Being thicker than the flaps and l
139 747megatop
: I am willing to be that your logic will be challenged saying that the aircraft came down intact and floated for 7 hours with both engines running LoL
140 mandala499
: Oh don't jump the gun on him just yet! Spoofed signals make more sense than his theory, even in the face of the flaperon confirmation! *yes, it's the
141 TheRedBaron
: Maybe MH370 had some special equipment that allowed to do this... (sorry for being disrespectful but I can't take it anymore) TRB
142 747megatop
: Well, well, just when we thought we had all the bases(theories) covered...LoL..i hadn't thought about it. The submersible angle kinda explains it...t
143 gzm
: The Thunderbirds also had a space station,Thunderbird 5, and they could track down everything. Disrespectful or not, they were at least 50 years ahead
144 Kevil
: It happened already. "Except for the rear part of the airframe, the broken portions of the fuselage sank rapidly." See Ethiopian Airlines Flight 961
145 thunderboltdrgn
: No it didn't. Nowhere in the Wiki-article or the article it uses as a source does it say anything about 7 hours. It is of course possible that smalle
146 747megatop
: LoL, i wouldn't be surprised if some folks said that engine would work well underwater too. I have seen almost everything on this thread!
147 oxymorph
: Actually, tests have demonstrated that flawless function can be achieved when engines are spooled at 1/2 atm (15ft) in nutrient-rich equatorial water
148 jcxroberts
: And engine failure + fire on a Boeing 777 today, after we were told it was impossibility.
149 777Jet
: During takeoff. The plane is on the ground. The pax are safe. Everything is still with us. The plane did not deviate from cruise 40mins into the flig
150 jpetekyxmd80
: Are you really this dense or is this just an attempt at an epic troll job? What ridiculousness. Makes absolutely zero sense to connect the BA inciden
151 777Jet
: Especially during takeoff We at least know MH370 probably had 40mins of routine flight after takeoff, then another 7 or so hours of non-routine fligh
152 747megatop
: Unamimous vote for the latter without a doubt.
153 747megatop
: Who told that engine failure + fire on any aircraft let alone a 777 was an impossbility? If it was impossible then aircraft engine fire protection sy
154 777Jet
: Sadly, it could also be a bit of the former I'd also like to know exactly who said that, but I'm not expecting an answer
155 Pohakuloa
: Said person is probably a subscriber to the "engine fire" theory of MH370. With all we have learned in the last 18 months (or sooner) it may have beco
156 oxymorph
: Perhaps. Or. said person has an agenda resembling many others here: inject anything that may work to divert attention from the obvious--A deliberate,
157 abba
: This is NOT obvious. And it doesn't become more obvious by being repeated again and again and again.
159 gzm
: MH 370 seems to me more mysterious than you think. The plane goes north for some reason. What I do not understand is its turning south. The way I see
160 PW100
: It's sad that people who don't want to be chained to certain conclusion and prefer to keep an open mind for all options, are labeled as having an age
161 lancelot07
: On the contrary, with each repetition it becomes more and more obvious that a certain other member has an agenda of libel and slender against the unl
162 747megatop
: You are not alone my friend. There are 7 billion of us fellow earthlings who don't understand it . And...i highly doubt we will ever understand becau
163 Kaiarahi
: This is a common misconception amongst those who are not accident investigators or are unable to interpret FDR plots. The CVR only tells you what tho
164 airtechy
: I'm not sure we will get anything off the FDR .. even if found. Can't you turn it off from the flight deck? Seems like if someone was smart enough to
165 7BOEING7
: The FDR can't be turned off from the cockpit in a 777.
166 airtechy
: OK. Scratch that. I do seem to recall a case where the CVR/DVR was turned off....once the plane was on the ground...to preserve the evidence of an fl
167 AirlineCritic
: For the record, I think the "one of the pilots did it" theory is the (far) most likely scenario. I also believe that the above scenario and all others
168 7BOEING7
: Loss of an engine would force it to a much lower altitude so it wouldn't be able to fly the same distance/time.
169 747megatop
: What is the misconception? I stated that FDR is the one that will tell us what pilot control inputs were provided and CVR is the one that can tell us
170 Kaiarahi
: Re-read yor post and my response - carefully.
171 solarflyer22
: You know this is exactly the same thing I thought but I don't know if anyone has confirmed the engine type on the aircraft. It apparently does not ap
172 747megatop
: Sorry, i am at a loss. Will need you to point out more clearly. I read your posts and my posts. Not sure what the misconception. I agree that CVR doe
173 holzmann
: CNN reporting possible additional debris sighting... http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/15/africa/mh370-investigation/index.html
174 washingtonflyer
: Interesting to see what develops out of this most recent report.
175 namezero111111
: To be fair here, the NTSB was never conclude suicide. They stated that the probable cause was the FO's control inputs for undetermined reasons.
176 WarrenPlatts
: Fugro search to revisit some 30 sites.... The West Australian[Edited 2015-09-24 04:48:05]
177 motif1
: Has there been any news on the possible debris spotted?
178 solarflyer22
: Seemed plausible to me but if you believe the existing flight data (potentially a big if) then it's not feasible on one engine. The plane is running
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