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What Is Boeing Thinking!?!  
User currently offlineAirplanetire From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1809 posts, RR: 2
Posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2578 times:

First of all, before I start, if you are going to start a fight, please do not read this. No body wants to read big fights anymore (if they ever did), so just don't start one. This is not an A vs. B war. I love both companies. Thank you.

Okay, now that that is out of the way, I'll begin. My question is: What is Boeing thinking!?!

I can't stand to see either Boeing or Airbus in trouble, but right now my concerns are with Boeing. Airbus is exceling in sales. Don't worry about the hard times for aircraft sales, Airbus over the past five years has done very well. Look at things over a broader period. Not just now.

Airbus dominates Europe now in a big way. Boeing has lost any footing they had there. There aren't a lot of airlines in Africa, but there are a few that both Boeing and Airbus would most deffinately want to be selling their aircraft to. The two major ones I can think of are SAA and EgyptAir. SAA is unhappy with their new 738s and may very well choose the A320 over those now. That's a little bit of sales that Boeing loses. EgyptAir is buying a lot of Airbus aircraft now, so that's another lost chance for Boeing. Although Africa is not dominated by either of those companies, but rather older aircraft from various places, I still believe that every last sale is important. In South America, lots of airlines are starting to go with Airbus instead of Boeing, or never went with Boeing. A few of those are: Lan Chile, TAM, Aerolineas Argentina, Aces Colombia, and others.

Here is the worst of it though. Boeing is losing a lot of ground on their home turf, North America. US Airways is buying Airbus now. No Boeing. United Airlines just keeps getting more A320/319s. They get some Boeings, but more larger ones, nothing like 737s. Northwest Airlines is replacing their fleet with Airbuses. Not Boeings. America West keeps getting Airbuses. Not Boeings. Jet Blue only operates Aibuses. They probably never will get Boeings. A few airlines in the US still choose Boeing. Delta, American, and Southwest purchase only Boeing aircraft these days. American has those A300s, but haven't bought any other Airbuses except those.

Airbus is a tough competitor to Boeing, but I think Boeing can do better than they are. You might say that Airbus has an unfair advantage over Boeing because they are subsidized by the government and Boeing is not, but that's an obstacle that Boeing has to overcome. It is a fact and it is something that probably will not change. Maybe Boeing need to suffer some losses to make gains. Airbus has virtually given some of their aircraft away in order to gain customers. Maybe Boeing need to do that in places like Europe for a little while until maybe they get some customers. Boeing needs a new product. Although lots of these new things they come up with are great, they need to develop a totally new aircraft. The Sonic Cruiser may sound good, but no other companies are developing those. Boeing should try to compete with those companies, not try to soley open a new market. If they want to go ahead with the Sonic Cruiser, fine, but they need some other stuff besides just longer and longer versions of what they already have. The 737 probably has no life beyond the versions currently being produced. It's been around too long. A replacement should be made. A competitor for the A380 should be made. 757s and 767s should be replaced later on.

Well now you've heard what I think. As I said up top, I love both Boeing and Airbus and I would hate to see either of them suffering. Boeing is suffering though, in my mind. I don't want them to put Airbus out of business, just make everything a bit more equal. Now I want to hear what you think. Don't worry about what you say, as long as you are not dirrectly starting a fight. Some people may not agree with you, which is okay, but don't start calling people names and saying someone's opinion is wrong. Thanks!

Best Regards,
Airplanetire


48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNWA ARJ From United States of America, joined May 2001, 547 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2304 times:

How can boeing be losing alot of sales in North America. You said Northwest is replacing their fleet with A319's and A320's. What are you smoking. Northwest is taking deliveries of the 757-200 and soon the 757-300. They are taking deliveries soon of 2 747-400's. I dont think you know what you are talking about but i think boeing will do just fine.


ARJ



Nightmare 68, Fargo Tower, Runway 36, Fly Runway Heading, Mantain 10,000, Cleared For Takeoff, Change To Departure
User currently offlineLindy field From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 3118 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2277 times:
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Likewise a fan of both, but I don't worry about Boeing losing its dominance. In fact, I'm pleased to watch their market share decline towards 50%. This trend will force them to innovate in aircraft design. It has already. The Sonic Cruiser will hopefully be a resounding success, and one which will represent a true step forward in civil aviation technology.

I disagree with you about the nature of competition. Boeing should develop the Sonic Cruiser, partly because no one else is developing similar planes. If they can pull it off, it will be a resounding success. Yes, they should seriously consider 757 and 767NGs as well to cover their bases. In fact, a souped up 767-300 is being examined.

Hopefully, the A380 will be a success as well. Airbus has a good product line, but should consider an A300 replacement. Much has been said in these forums about the lack of a suitable replacement aircraft for the A300. They might consider a Sonic Cruiser competitor as well...



User currently offlineTravellin'man From United States of America, joined May 2001, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2260 times:

The 100+ seat market is probably destined to be split 50-50 between them, so until that level is reached, Boeing will only appear to lose ground. In many ways they make the same products, as many of their types correspond exactly, having been designed to compete against one another (I'm thinking mostly of the 737 and the A320).

There are so many things to discuss in your post, that it's hard to know where to start.

Airbus is gaining market share for a variety of reasons. They've got great products which were designed as improvements over existing ones (A320 vs. 737 classic). They had empty order books, and so could afford to give them away at lower rates. Boeing instead had an overburdened, often inefficient production line which meant they couldn't churn out aircraft fast enough to satisfy demand, or at a lower cost. Sometimes Boeing was arrogant with customers, like USAirways, and lost them. (US manufacturers have a long history of not paying attention to market changes; just look at US carmakers!)

Airbus has been able to design almost all new products for the market place. Boeing has products of various ages, and is invested in making money off them (not to mention that as a publicly held company they need to make money!). It makes them a little less flexible. If the market changes in another 30 years, and Airbus is still making its current products, you will see that they will also scoff at any newcomer who has new ideas about planes.

Anyway just a few thoughts.



It is not enough to be rude; one must also be incorrect.
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2229 times:

While I agree with you that Boeing has lost there foothold on Europe, they are still generating good sales there. Don't forget KLM, they will likely ALWAYS be an all Boeing airline. Airbus is just become competitive and is taking most of the orders in Europe. In the US, I Boeign is dominating. While yes, there are a lot of Airbus orders, there are a lot more Boeing orders ESPECIALLY widebodies.

Egypt Air is really 50/50 they are taking delivery of both Airbus narrow-bodies (the A320s) and Boeing widebodies (the 777). They actually have a good sized 777 order.

Boeing is doing perfectly fine, if you count all the sales each have had so far this year, its about a tie.

Regards.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2201 times:

You're generalizing way too much (how many times can we hear the line "X Airline is unhappy with their Y model" on this forum?)

For every North American airline you quote buying Airbus, there's another buying Boeing (CO? AA? ATA? NW?). According to Airliner World, Africa, Asia and South and Central America are all bigger markets for Boeing than Airbus. Plus, in Europe, the dynamic, entreprenerial(and profitable) airlines like Ryan Air, Excel and easyJet all seem to prefer Boeing products while the national lines have all been dumping jets that have many more profitable years left in a race to stuff their fleets with Airbuses (and we've seen how wise a financial move THAT was of late havent we?)

Boeing has indeed made some missteps in the past. If you ask me they should have bought Embraer, not McDouglas. But hindsight is 20/20.

I readily admit Boeing is on treacherous ground with the SC. But in all fairness do you think your kids are gonna want to fly New York to London in 6, 7, or 8 hours in 30 years? Just because we love airliners on this forum doesn't cover up the fact that MOST people dont want to sit on them for that long.

Boeing is exploring the creativity of 'faster', and the potential of 'much faster'. They're being imaginative, which can have great consequences either way.

But I imagine Boeing is looking forward to the first few months of SC operations, when a buzz hits the travel industry that passengers prefer to be booked on faster airliners. Suddenly all those shiny Airbuses(and fairly enough, 73's 75's and what have you) are going to look much like the forlorn propliners did on the tarmacs of mid 1960s America next to 707s and 727s....old fashioned.


User currently offlineJer32382 From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 34 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2174 times:

As for US Airways buying Airbus, US isn't going to be around much longer. They can hardly affored to maintain what they have right now.

User currently offlineTravellin'man From United States of America, joined May 2001, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2167 times:

As a follow up to my post, I wanted to add that where Boeing does its R+D, it ensures its own future. Just look at how the 777 sells like no tomorrow. It will always be a balancing act for them, selling what they have already designed, improving those designs, and then knowing when to start from scratch with something new. The problem is probably that shareholders don't like to hear that you're going to the drawing boards all the time; they want to see you out there selling what you've already got. Current profit vs. investment for long term profits.


It is not enough to be rude; one must also be incorrect.
User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2138 times:

I don´t worry too much about Airbus, Boeing, Bombardier and Embraer all get money from their goverment(s) to develope new airplanes. Antonov,
Illjysin, Tupolev and Beriev suffer, Russia and Ukraine hardly spend any money to develope new planes.
Thats sad....


User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2128 times:

Heavymetal and Jer32382,

The airline's financial positions has nothing to do with the fact they bought Airbus aircraft. Whether they bought Airbus or Boeing, it wouldn't have made a difference to there current financial problems.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineCanadi>nBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2123 times:

First and foremost, I will state that I have always been a Boeing fan. Period. The 747-400 and 777 are probably the most magnificent aircraft I have ever flown on. They are also quite beautiful to look at.

Now, in my opinion, I feel Boeing will, in the long run, come out ahead of Airbus, as Boeing is now concentrating on speed, rather than size. Hence, their cancellation of the 747-XX project. I strongly feel that
future aircraft sales will in fact be based on speed, and in this respect, Boeing will come out ahead. I have a strong hunch the A380 is not going to be the mammoth
success Airbus hopes it to be. For one thing, airports are presently not properly equipped to handle loads of 600 pax per aircraft. I cannot see this changing (airport modifications to handle multi A380 arrivals/departures). In short, bottlenecked congestion is going to be the downswing factor for the A380 aircraft.

Simply stated, but again, only my opinion.

Sincerely,
Canadi>nBoy Luvs Boeing


User currently offlineDeltaBoy777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2114 times:

I am a huge fan of Boeing, as well as CanadianBoy I see, and I don't think Boeing is losing any ground to Airbus!! Take Delta for example, an all Boeing airline has 82 orders in place for 737-800's which will probably begin in 2002, economics pending. They also have orders for 6 777-200's, 1 767-300, and 5 767-400's. That's alot of orders to Boeing if you ask me. Although I am a big fan of the 757-200 and -300, and 767's, I think they could make a series out of the 757 more, and maybe even the 767 (but it's already pretty big). The 757 is the most versatile Jumbo Jet I think there is and it's a big shot over any A320 or similar Jet for Airports. Just my opinion!!


Thanks and Gig Em!
User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2109 times:

We must remember that LOT is an all Boeing Fleet!

Well They operate ERJ-145 and some ATRs but those are regionals  Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up


User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 13, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2103 times:

Fact is that Airbus in 30 years time has grown to the biggest aircraft manufacturer in the 100+ seats categorie. They recieved more orders this year than Boeing. This gives them a 50%+ market share on the moment...
Anyway, as competition brings innovation and quality it is good to see both manufacturers doing well and competing each other.



SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
User currently offlineMatt767 From Canada, joined Jun 2001, 36 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2097 times:

As A boeing fan (Mostly of the 757-767) I must say Boeing is losing ground is the short-medium market (to the A320) and in some cases Medium-Long (to the A330-A340). Boeing's last 2 planes that have realesed the 737-900 I think is a failure because it only has 46 orders. I also consider the 767-400 a major failure for how much R&D they put into it (Since 1994 they also had MD doing enginerring support when it was still indapendant) And today the 764 only has 44 orders! I think it is a failure because Range (It goes the least amount of range in the 767 family) and Celing, I heard with full pax+fuel it can only go up tp FL280. I think the last 737 realese the 739 is not very popular is airlines are getting tired of the 737 and companies like NW,HP,UA are going more airbus for the common type rating eventhough the 737 family has that also. Maybe the A320-A319 is more cheaper then the 737 you never know, because Airbus does not publish it's prices. In the Long-Haul market is almost "King" with the 747-767-777. I think the only markets Boeing is losing out in is Short-Medium and in some cases Medium-Long. Plus I think the A380 will never make it, like the concorde it will be a techincal success but a commerical failure. Their is not much of a market for Long-Haul-Widebody -Twin deck aircrafts.

Hey,Maybe i should be a market analyst for commerical aircraft industry!


Matt 767


User currently offlineRickB From United Kingdom, joined May 2003, 243 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2066 times:

I think Boeing will do just fine but I must admit I dont think the Sonic Cruiser is their Knight in shining armour. Its not a quantum leap in speed when compared to existing a/c like the 744 and A346. On East coast - Europe transatlantic routes the 30 or 40 minute savings aren't enough to justify substantial increases in airfares, either to economy passengers or business class. Those 1st class passengers who want speed will still chose Concorde because it does justify itself with its speed.

Personally I wouldn't give up my BA club world bed to save 30 minutes, 3 hours (Concorde) maybe, but 30 minutes, no chance !!

On longer haul (10+ hours) it has a chance but I still doubt it will be more than bit player - even business class passengers consider the costs these days.

Besides, I believe Boeing will bring out a new large aircraft similar to the A380. More and more people want to fly long haul and with current worries about DVT and more emphasis on comfort even for economy passengers - size and space will ultimately win the day !!

Its great having both companies around - the competition give us the chance to fly on great aircraft like the A380 and SC in the future and aircraft like the B777 and A340/330 now !!



User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2066 times:

BA, I take issue....the fact that these airlines rushed to fleet renewal faster than was financially prudent very much has something to do with their near death status. Might not be the chief reason, but it's a factor. Even European based aviation publications like Flight International have conceeded this point.

I agree that they would have shredded their balance sheets buying either expensive new Airbus or Boeing products....that much is obvious. You'll permit me the indulgence of having a hunch that pro-Airbus politics on the Continenent may have played at least a small role in those purchases.





User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 54
Reply 17, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2035 times:

I´m a bit worried that Boeing is betting on falling fuel prices and ignoring slot restriction and environmental issues with their only (public) new development, while Airbus bets on increasing fuel prices, tightened ecological regulations and increasing problems with slot allocation.

I can´t guarantee my crystal ball to be superior to anybody else´s; But my hunch is that Airbus is a lot more likely to win this gamble than Boeing is. The A380 market might not be as big as Airbus thinks, but the SC market has a non-trivial risk of vanishing altogether.

I do sincerely hope Boeing can work some magic to get through with it, but I´ve got doubts.

And Airbus has a more solid product portfolio with just one product line a little outdated (300/310) instead of all but one (all except the 777). Having everything well-covered is a boon for Boeing; But is it enough in the long run?


User currently offlineBlink182 From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 1999, 5480 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2009 times:

I am a fan of both Airbus and Boeing, and if anything, more of an equal market share means better,more advanced,faster,more comfortable,cheaper,quieter,fuel efficient, and more importantly- safer aircraft from both companies.

rgds,
blink182



Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2008 times:

And Airbus has a more solid product portfolio with just one product line a little outdated (300/310) instead of all but one (all except the 777).

How can the 737-900 and the 767-400 be outdated, and the A300 "a little outdated"?

Just curious.  Yeah sure


User currently offlineJonPaulGeoRngo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1969 times:

Considering that a significant amount of the technology that will fly the Sonic Cruiser is only now being conceived why don't you wait until she flies before you mark her a failure.

Boeing is being very conservative with the public information on its development of this airplane.

When it actually cuts 2 hrs off a JFK-LHR in each direction...many naysayers will have to eat their words...and airlines WILL flock to order.


User currently offlineDavid_mx From Mexico, joined Nov 1999, 209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1939 times:

I think Airbus and Boeing will be 50/50 around the world, maybe there is going to be several Airbus airlines and several Boeing airlines, or Airbus narrow bodies and boeing wide bodies and some others with boeing narrow and airbus wide bodies. Here in Mex, MX is replacing the 727 to A320's but having 767's and 757's for longer routes. I like both Airbus and Boeing, both have good planes for probably different markets.

I honestly don't know what are they going to do with their F100 fleet, and honestly I think the 100 seat market is unattended by both Boeing and Airbus, while the 150+ and bigger planes are spliting to 50/50, and the fight of RJ's (AVRO, CRJ, Dornier, ERJ) is growing up I don't find a nice replacement for the F100.

David.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 54
Reply 22, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1895 times:

Blink182: I am a fan of both Airbus and Boeing, and if anything, more of an equal market share means better,more advanced,faster,more comfortable,cheaper,quieter,fuel efficient, and more importantly- safer aircraft from both companies.

Exactly! I wouldn´t like any one of them becoming a "Microplanes" monopolist.  Wink/being sarcastic


Klaus: And Airbus has a more solid product portfolio with just one product line a little outdated (300/310) instead of all but one (all except the 777).

Heavymetal: How can the 737-900 and the 767-400 be outdated, and the A300 "a little outdated"? Just curious.

Oh, come on!  Smile
I made an effort to put it as neutrally as possible. No difference. Both are "a little outdated", in my opinion. It´s just my opinion that Airbus has fewer "outdated" product lines (one). Which doesn´t automatically mean that those must be "bad products".

Just a little more difficult to sell in the long run. On the other hand, Boeing does have a chance to renew all those lines and leap ahead of the slowly aging buses...  Wink/being sarcastic


JonPaulGeoRngoConsidering that a significant amount of the technology that will fly the Sonic Cruiser is only now being conceived why don't you wait until she flies before you mark her a failure.

I don´t do that. I´ve just got some doubts.

JonPaulGeoRngo: When it actually cuts 2 hrs off a JFK-LHR in each direction...many naysayers will have to eat their words...and airlines WILL flock to order.

At what cost, is the multi-billion-dollar question...


User currently offlineHlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1893 times:

I like to see people buying American being an American, but I too like both companies and also wished that MD was still around too. I'm not too concerned about Boeing yet.

AA is progressively becoming an all Boeing fleet and if they determine that A300 crash is structural problem, then AA will be all Boeing give or take a few Fokkers. AA is the largest airline in the world and AA probably has more 737-800s in its fleet than Egypt Air or other African and S. American companies have planes. AA has more 738s coming their way, along with more 757, 767 and 777s. I don't know if they are getting the 764 or not, thats just something i have been hearing but its not confirmed. What about when it is time to retire the 250+ MD-80s??? I suspect a major 737 order for that.

Continental is also all Boeing, thats the 5th largest airline in the world.

Delta is all Boeing and its the 3rd largest airline in the world.

Add Southwest with their huge 737 orders.

Those four airline's fleets alone practically out number the Airbus fleets of the European companies.

In the meantime, the only MAJOR U.S. airline buying 100% Airbus is USAirways and America West.

Northwest as mentioned is still taking 747s and 757s while taking their Airbuses.

United is still taking 747s and 777s and I think even 757s while taking their Airbuses.

Even some of the smaller majors like Alaska Air and Am Tran are going 100% Boeing.


Boeing is still strong in Asia with wide bodies especially Singapore and Japan Air.

I like both the 737 series and the A320 series but I highly doubt the A320 series will outsell the 737 series in the end.


User currently offlineTransSwede From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1000 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1888 times:

>When it actually cuts 2 hrs off a JFK-LHR in each
>direction...many naysayers will have to eat their
>words...and airlines WILL flock to order.

Whoah there... Easy with the math - Shaving off 2 hrs JFK-LHR would mean a ~35% speed increase over existing planes. And that, ladies and gentlemen is supersonic. Realistically, one hour seems like the maximium you could shave off by hugging the sonic barrier. And the practical gains will be much less, with holding patterns and congestion around airports, etc... I'd say that 30min shave is the most realistic scenario. And we still don't know how much it's going to cost.


25 The Paul : Airplanetire, I mostly disagree with what you've said about Boeing. Here goes...... ------------------------------- Airbus is exceling in sales. And s
26 Usa4624 : I think it is too early to know for sure if Airbus or Boeing is in trouble; neither seem to be concerned at the moment...
27 Rwy31R : I think that it's quite abvoius that Boeing is loosing ground in some regions. For example, here in the M.E. alot of airlines are favoring Airbus prod
28 OO-AOG : Airbus is number 1 in Europe while Boeing is number 1 in the States. As the US market is more than twice bigger than the european one, Boeing is still
29 Heavymetal : Actually OO, according to Airliner World, Airbus has slightly more outstanding orders in the States presently than Boeing. I think that's a pre-9/11 n
30 Wingman : It seems very much like bad times for Boeing, but don't worry, Airbus is shitting its pants right now as well. Deferrals apply equally to both manufac
31 FDXmech : Some thoughts on the subject In regards to Airbus's product line being all new (A300/310 notwithstanding) as opposed to a virtually all derivative Boe
32 Manni : 'I for one can't wait to see Airbus announce its first' What a pathetic phrase! I feel sorry for these 30000 people that are going to be layed off by
33 OO-AOG : Wingman Your post is total nonsense, get your facts straight or get a life.
34 Joni : Boeing isn't as badly battered as the original poster infers. They're selling a lot of widebodies, particularly the 777, and have a very strong marke
35 Notar520AC : Boeing is an airplane company that will never go under, and if somehow they do, they will go under with a big bang. Boeing once took a risk with the 7
36 Aeroguy : OO-AOG, I'm not sure I understand why you disagree with Wingman's facts. You may be able to argue with his speculation, but what is wrong with the fac
37 Notar520AC : Boeing is an airplane company that will never go under, and if somehow they do, they will go under with a big bang. Boeing once took a risk with the 7
38 Manni : After Boeing announced that it will lay of 30000 people, the US governement announced that it will place a huge order for military jets to boost the a
39 Wingman : Where's the nonsense OOG? 30 years no taxes, no accountants, no shareholders, no proof of loan repayment except the Brits. Those are the facts pure an
40 Eg777er : Isn't this the real reason Airbus can offer aircraft cheaper than Boeing?: The two rivals’ factories illustrate the challenge that Boeing faces. At
41 M27 : Some one please tell me what large order of jets the US military placed that occured after 9/11? I don't know of any. As for the 767 tankers, we will
42 Post contains links David_itl : M27, here's an extract from http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/618896/ Lockheed wins joint fighter contract Pentagon awa
43 Flpuck6 : Great thread. I am writing my senior thesis on the evolution of the privatization of Airbus and how it helped it gain that 50% of the market.
44 M27 : David Thanks for the info, but I thought this had been planned for about 5 years. I even thought the day the winner of the contract was to be announce
45 Post contains images Heavymetal : the US government is mad not to invest in Boeing...but it's only an ideological barrier that is stopping them. And if they did, there would be HOWLS
46 Vafi88 : I agree on some points with you Airplanetire, but it's not the present, it's the future of Boeing I'm afraid of. Let me explain. I don't think the A-3
47 Joni : Wingman, Commercial airplanes are an extremely capital-intensive business. If you look at how Airbus was begun, you can't but agree that it has immen
48 Wingman : I agree then that in scrapping the tax break scheme, the US gov't should now be free to excuse Boeing from all Federal taxation between 2002 and 2032.
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