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MSP-JAX In A CRJ  
User currently offlineKohflot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1322 times:

Move over PHX-DSM, there's a new champ in the long-distance RJ race in the US. Northwest announced today that Express I will be flying MSP-JAX starting in February. Best of luck to the 10 or so people that won't be on that aircraft each time in the summer because of limits...

41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNorthwestCRJ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1168 times:

WOW! Now their stretching limits eh ?(I don't think so) Well for those who want to know, there is a meal service on CRJ flights longer than 2 hours with Express I. There is leather seating. It's the same as a DC9 minus F/C and leather seating in Y/C. As far as entertainment, read World Traveler, look outside, work, socialize, or sleep. They ought to use a CRJ from MSP-MOB or DTW-MOB, that would be excellent. We are in need of one stop service from MOB to many NW markets.

User currently offlineNorthwestCRJ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1161 times:

And send some CRJ's from MSP/DTW to GPT also. This GPT-MEM route is good with DC-9's, plus alot of pax continue to other NW hubs.

User currently offlineJetBlue320 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1151 times:

I'll Drink to that. >sips apple juice< Ah.. Now, Yes, We need a CRJ to MSP and DTW in MOB. MEM is such a small market, and it would certainly make some CASH

User currently offlineAfitch7881 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 816 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1132 times:

Air Canada already flys the CRJ JAX-YYZ which is quite long. Also, PVD-MSP is pretty long.

User currently offlineIAHERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 677 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1127 times:

They shouldn't have to restrict. In an ERJ, the longer the flight, the better off you are for weight. We are weight limited on landing weight. A long trip allows us to burn off enough fuel to be well under our max landing weight which is a lot more restrictive than the takeoff weight. I'm sure the CRJ is similar however not having ever been trained on it I might be talking out my you know what.


Actually flown: EMB-120 EMB-145 B717 B737 B757 B767
User currently offlineCV640 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 952 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1114 times:

IAHERJ is right, the CRJ has problems, big time, on the short runs. Its max take off weight is 53000 pounds but landing is 47000. It only burns 2200 in cruise, so can cause big time headaches on the short runs. It has well over 2000 nm range(7 + hour endurance) with reserves, so shouldn't even be a slight problem

User currently offlineIAHERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 677 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1109 times:

I'm a big fan of Express I's CRJ's. I believe they are the finest in the U.S. I just wish Canadair would make larger windows so you can see out without needing to make a call to the chiropractor.


Actually flown: EMB-120 EMB-145 B717 B737 B757 B767
User currently offlineCap'n Dan From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1101 times:

ASA flies YOW-ATL in a CRJ as well. I don't care how much some people like RJs, 2+ hours seems like a hell of a long time for me...

User currently offlineJason Seiple From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1097 times:

I'd still rather go JAX-DTW-MSP-OMA for the frequent flyer miles.

User currently offlineContinental From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5517 posts, RR: 17
Reply 10, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1095 times:

I flew a NWA CRJ from MSP-PVD, 2 hours 30 minutes!

Continental


User currently offlineCV640 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 952 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1094 times:

Very true about the windows, the ERJ definitely has a huge advantage there. Yeah, they do seem to love the jets here, nice jet bridegs and all but at the expense of the Saabs, oh well. Time to be Mr jet now anyways. Grabbed a ride with CoEx today out of ISP and then CLE to MEM. Just wanted to pass along a thanks to you guys, as usual a great job. Hope to hear you growing and getting your guys off of furlough soon too. Fly safe.

User currently offlineJonnyGT From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 242 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1082 times:

Starting about a month ago, DSM is now a full America West stop with one daily 733, I believe. It's quite nice because I took the long distance DSM-PHX route about a month ago, and while it was enjoyable, 3 hrs on a CRJ was REALLY pushing it!  Smile

User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1073 times:

Comair used to fly CRJs on CVG-COS before Delta Air Lines took over the route with 727s.

Regards.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineOscar2 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1052 times:

Express Also used to fly MEM-MTY which was about 2 hours and 30 minutes. A lot of people complain about flights over 2 hours in RJ's, but in a lot of markets in would be a nonstop RJ or a connection or 2.

User currently offlineKohflot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1059 times:

IAHERJ, CV640:

I'm not so concerned about the range of the plane being a problem with a full load. I don't doubt that it could make it with 50 folks on a good day. The problem comes in the summertime, when JAX and every airport within 250 miles of JAX has the good ole tempo of VRB25G45KT 1/2SM TSRA+ for the whole afternoon. Throw on a good alternate and some contingency fuel and you'll definitely be taking limits.. and a lot of them. The other problem is routing around enroute weather. If a line of t-storms stretches from ORD to MOB and you need to route around it, there's no way you're taking 50 people.


User currently offlineIAHERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 677 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1052 times:

Why not, what in the hell do you know about the CRJ or ERJ. We just explained that you can top off the tanks, load up with 50 people and bags, and make the trip. Now if the weather requires more than full tanks, then nobody goes. Is that hard to figure out. A fuel stop would be needed. It has nothing to do with the plane being a 50 passanger regional jet or a 737 that has a 2,000 NM range. If the weather is so bad that it is going to take more fuel than the plane can hold, no one is going nonstop.



Actually flown: EMB-120 EMB-145 B717 B737 B757 B767
User currently offlineIAHERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 677 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1047 times:

Thanks for the kind words. My wife and I always try to use you guys from MEM to MGM to visit her family. The alternatives from ATL are a complete joke. Schedule 8 flights a day and actually get 6 off the ground. As far as getting our guys off of furlough, it really depends on big CAL. We are getting a new jet every Friday starting Jan 1. We are getting 5 new jets before Christmas. We are growing, we are just growing with their furloughed pilots bumping our guys to the street. I think it will turnouround in the next 9 months. The big Cal guys are great and I'm damn glad to have them back with us and welcome the guys that never flew at Express before as well. I and they would just like to see them back on the boeings.

I think you guys and us are the only regional jet operators that use jet bridges to the extent that we use them. Have fun on the CRJ.



Actually flown: EMB-120 EMB-145 B717 B737 B757 B767
User currently offlineTwa902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3128 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1038 times:

yeah PHX DSM is now a 737-300.

and so that makes the second longest, after MSP JAX CRJ route ASA's Atlanta to Monterey Mexico. It is 1089 miles, while MSP JAX is 1174 miles

twa902 chicago



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlineCVG777 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1251 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1024 times:

Doesn't America West have a CRJ service between PHX and MEX. How long is that flight?

User currently offlineKohflot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1046 times:

**Why not, what in the hell do you know about the CRJ or ERJ. We just explained that you can top off the tanks, load up with 50 people and bags, and make the trip.**

*sigh*

I know a thing or two about the CRJ, and one of the things I do know is that you can't "top off the tanks, load up with 50 people and bags, and make the trip."

Let's do the math:

Max fuel load: 14,500 lbs.
50 average pax: 8500 lbs.
50 average bags: 1250 lbs.
BOW of your average CRJ: ~31,000 lbs.

That's 55,250 lbs. and that's not even taking max cargo.
Max takeoff is 51,000 or 53,000 depending on the model.. I'm not sure which ones Express I has. And that's just structural.

It's generally not good to assume the people you're talking to don't know what they're talking about.....


User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3927 posts, RR: 27
Reply 21, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1011 times:

Something to think about... NW uses Mesaba and Express as route provers. If this route does well, and I'm sure it will, you bet your nickets and dimes that NW mainline will take this over.

Here are some examples of this in the past:

DTW-PWM, MSP-Regina, MEM-ATL, MEM-ICT, MEM-RDU, MEM-DFW. These were all at one time flown and operated by MEsaba... only to be taken over by NW using DC9s. I don't know about some Express cities, because they're new to the jet. We'll see what happens... too bad this couldn't have been in the avro. You'd be comfy there... I guess the range is an issue.

AZJ


User currently offlineCV640 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 952 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1017 times:

Actually there will be no restrictions on the CRJ to JAX. The aircraft weights on average 30,000 empty, 50 people as you say above is 8500, plus say 2000 pounds in baggage. Now lets say first hour fuel burn is 3200 pounds(do to climb), second hour is 2400(still heavy), third hour is 2200, fourth hour in case of problems with winds is 2200, fifth hour is 2200(at this point you'd be a little less with the descent but lets play conservative). My total with all this is 52,700 ramp weight. The max ramp weight of the CRJ 200LR is 53,250 pounds. So we have 550 pounds to play with even though we are taking almost a 2 hour reserve, or enough to get just outside of JAX and divert to MEM using conservative numbers. Plus if they have extremely high demand and always selling out they'll just replace it with a -9, but guess what, that has less range then the CRJ. I'm not too worried about the range on that trip, guess its A319 time.

IAHERJ, yeah the jetbridges help a ton, make people feel like they are getting on a main line flight, looks better then a mad dash in the pouring rain. Glad we can help, you have been great when ever I've needed the ride, fly safe


User currently offlineKohflot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1016 times:

Hmm..

We'll use your numbers..

30,000 BOW
8,500 Pax
2,000 Bags
7,800 Burn (3 hours as you stated above)
2,000 legal contingency (don't leave home without it!)
2,000 alternate fuel to somewhere other than SAV
1,000 contingency (and that ain't much)
500 taxi fuel:

53,800.

The look on the faces of the 5-10 people you leave behind in MSP: Priceless.


User currently offlineKohflot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1004 times:

Silly me, I meant legal reserve.. not legal contigency.

25 PSU_DTW_SCE : Its interesting to note NW's expansion using CRJ's by adding new routes as opposed to replacing the Saab's. They seem more focused on route building w
26 Azjubilee : I seriously doubt there will be meal service on this flight NorthwestCRJ. NW mainline doesn't even serve meals on flights shorter than 3 hours, no cha
27 IAHERJ : Kohflot, It would only be priceless if you were left standing at the gate. The fact is the CRJ can do the trip and not leave people behind. I'll give
28 CV640 : Don't know where you got your numbers from, but lets do some real math. Since you want to be exact, block to block is 3 hours and 5 minutes. So we'll
29 IAHERJ : Maybe the ERJ is different. We go 11,200 (full fuel without overwing fueling the last few hundred) in a LRJ all the time with 50 passangers and if the
30 Azjubilee : We can fill the avro with 69 seats and 20,046lbs of fuel and make it. IF we have to return though, we're screwed. No dumping. Remedy? airbrake, gear,
31 IAHERJ : Love that Mesaba Avro. Great airline and you guys used to treat me great as well when I commuted from Cleveland. Great alternative to riding the middl
32 CV640 : Yes, those were conservative numbers, but just wanted to show it can do it, probably less flying time too, especially if we burned 500 pounds on taxi,
33 Kohflot : You guys are failing to see my original point.. Since you guys seem to be so familiar with the deep South, you already know this, but in the summertim
34 IAHERJ : Okay, so you're a dispatcher. A good captain knows how to work the numbers and get all the passangers on board despite the conservative release number
35 Kohflot : **where the responsibility ultimately lies** Always got to get that jab in there don't ya? Joint responsibility my friend.. it's your aircraft, it's o
36 IAHERJ : Read the post! I said I would show less fuel, but take what I want. Always have. Gets everyone involved to the destination
37 Azjubilee : Glad to have you along! Hope to see you again soon on another Northwest Airlink flight, operated by Mesaba Airlines. (gosh, I feel like I'm making my
38 IAHERJ : And I'm not talking about taking off grossly overweight either. I'm just saying that the flight will depart with the fuel that you and I agree puts th
39 IAHERJ : Hey Azjubilee, You guys still take those things into Aspen for ski season? That must be a lot of fun. How are the loads? My wife's family has a home i
40 CV640 : Well, I've been flying down here for a number of years, the only time I saw alterantes for "hundreds of miles" wiped out was do to fog in February. At
41 Afitch7881 : In PHX, America West CRJ's are always at a gate, I have yet to see one not deplane or enplane a passenger without one. Eric P.S. Isnt the new midfield
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