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Air 2000 In Canada!?!?  
User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 56
Posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2147 times:

I have read elsewhere that Air 2000, which is owned by the same UK company which owns Signature Vacations, is applying for fifth freedom rights to serve Caribbean destinations from Canada on behalf of Signature Vacations, for the winter season! I want to pass this around, not knowing really if it is true, but to spread the word and get people to make some noise, given that there is lots of capacity in Canada to provide these services. There is no reason with the airlines that currently exist to give this to overseas airlines with overseas crews.


"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
74 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineILS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1853 times:

I have heard this as well. They are going to fly out of YYC (Calgary) I think.

User currently offlineCrosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2597 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1841 times:
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This is nothing new,
From 1988 to 1996 every winter between 2 and 4 Air 2000 757s were based in Canada for the Winter season operating on behalf of Canada 3000, using Canada 3000's route authorities but using British crews and aircraf, although the aircraft were re-registered. For the Winter 1997 season the arrangement was switched to Royal Airlines.

You may also be interested to know that for several Summer seasons Air 2000 aircraft were crewed by Canada 3000/Royal Airlines pilots, on flights from the UK.

Tour Operators are vulnerable if they don't have their own supply of airline seats, as has just been demonstrated. Signature placed most of their flying programme with Royal/Canada 3000, those airlines first merged and then went out of business, leaving Signature with some major problems of getting their clients to their destinations.

This type of seasonal arrangement is followed by many other companies, with British crews and aircraft operating in Canada including;
Monarch/SkyService A320
Airtours/SkyService A320 A330
JMC Airlines/Canada 3000 B757
And many more in previous years including Nationair, Odyssey, Air UK Leisure, Ambassador and Caledonian.

I said this would happen a week ago;
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/650143/6/

But I don't think it's anything to get excited about.

Regards
CROSSWIND


User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1807 times:

I was always under the impression that when these aircraft were here for the winter season from the UK, that they were being operated by Canadian crews, so that doesn't bother me one bit. There is of course the argument that British crews work here for the winter season, but the same opportunity would be extended to Canadian crews in the summer time. All is well, however we are currently in a situation where way too many Canadian flight crews are out of work, and willing to work, so the government has to be very careful before allowing foreign workers to come into Canada and do the work that perfectly capable and out of work Canadian workers can also accomplish.

Guess we'll have to wait and see.



"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlinePolaris From Canada, joined Feb 2000, 1138 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1772 times:

Fifth freedom rights are only available for scheduled services not charter services.

Tour operators charter aircraft from carriers with appropriate licences and insurance. Crosswind provided perfect examples of this situation.



User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 56
Reply 5, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1760 times:

I do realize that it is regularly done, and it has been done, and it is effective. But the difference here is that a major Canadian carrier just went under (Canada 3000), and there does exist lots of capacity or the capability to give that capacity with existing carriers, namely SkyService, Air Transat, and to a degree, Westjet, but that last one is unlikely. When for instance Air 2000 was allowed into Canada, it was operating under Royal Airlines, or whatever the case may be. I know of a pilot who was based in the UK this summer, he is a SkyService A320 pilot, and was flying for Airtours. So I do realize that this sort of thing happens.

My point to all this is, and please forgive my ignorance ... in the past, it has been done to add capacity to existing airlines. In this instance, they are applying for Air 2000 to be able to operate their aircraft, with their pilots and f/a's on behalf of a UK charter company which does business in Canada. With other airlines in Canada with the ability to provide these services, and so many unemployed pilots, f/a's and other industry workers, it is catastrophic to even contemplate bringing in a foreign source to do these services.

Again ... I may be wrong in my understanding of something, but that's how I see it.



"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlinePolaris From Canada, joined Feb 2000, 1138 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1713 times:

Basically, you're saying keep the jobs/positions in Canada.

It will be interesting to see what Signature Vacations does with its business.


User currently offlineRootsgirl From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 530 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1714 times:

A lot of airlines do aircraft exchanges on a seasonal basis and what is termed as "wet leases", These are all governed by the transport authorities in the particular country where the aircraft operate out of.

Skyservice does this with Airtours, we send some of our A320s and front end only to Airtours in the summer. Also we fly out of Amsterdam, , Germany, Zurich, and London operating on behalf of Pegasus to Turkey. We are not permitted to send back end crew, only front end.

Given the fact that Canada 3000 was associated with Air 2000, they may have had a similar agreement.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 8, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1688 times:

The tour operator has the right to find the cheapest lift...if its foreign aircraft/crew...so be it...this is in the interests of the Canadian consumer.

For that matter, C3/TS have also operated foreign charter series themselves....the US State Dept has wet-leased a TS L15 several times for press accompaniment of AF1. This winter, TS will operate a charter series from SEA to CUN. Skyservice will operate BOS-CUN service and C3 has operated numerous US-origin series in the past. Hence, if you want to 'ban' foreign carriers from operating Canadian-origin charter series, it could end up costing, not saving, Canadian jobs.

Let the market place rule.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineCpt Underpants From Canada, joined May 2001, 166 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1688 times:

Yes, all of the Canadian charter companies have operated 5th freedom work, but not in places where several thousand airline employees have just lost their jobs! Air Transat & Skyservice have the capability to provide seats to Signature, and they should not be allowed to go outside the country to get it!

Yyz717, your comment about "cheapest lift", shows that you obviously don't know much about the cost of operation in Europe. Their costs are much higher than those here in Canada, and the only reason Air 2000 has applied for the 5th freedom in Canada is because they own Signature, and they are struggling on their home turf. This work would simply be a way to lessen some of the financial pain of the downturn they are feeling in the U.K.

Until every ex C3 employee and every laid off employee from the other airlines in Canada are back at work, there should not be one foreign based aircraft over here flying Canadian passengers for a Canadian tour operator!

At least, that's how I see it. I'm writing to David Collenette on this one!


User currently offlineYHU From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 428 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1685 times:

"Until every ex C3 employee and every laid off employee from the other airlines in Canada are back at work, there should not be one foreign based aircraft over here flying Canadian passengers for a Canadian tour operator!"

That's a bit of a wild statement! So, Royal Air Maroc's FFR's between YUL and JFK should be taken from them? Also, I believe Egypt Air will soon have the same rights between YUL and JFK. It would be sad to see Signature have to let people go because there is not a Canadian carrier who can take over all of their routes.

Dave


User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1687 times:

YHU, I don;t know for sure, but I am pretty sure that RAM and Egyptair will not be taking people from YUL to JFK, I don't think you can buy a ticket from YUL to JFT on RAM or Egyptair.

Furthermore unless I missed something, I thought most of us are trying to point out that there is enough CANADIAN Capacity to serve signature's needs...ROYAL only had 17 planes when C3 took over the signature contract, I'm sure there are enough planes out there between transat and SSV to fill the Gap...TS should have at least half that number of L1011's parked around the country.



"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineCpt Underpants From Canada, joined May 2001, 166 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1678 times:

Slawko is correct, RAM and Egyptair may fly from YUL to JFK, but the passengers they are picking up are not destined for the USA. That would be illegal. It's no different than Olympic flying ATH to YMX and then on to YYZ. They can't take any passengers on from YMX to YYZ, or in the reverse on the return trip.

There is nothing wrong with protecting Canadian jobs first, especially when Canadian passengers are involved. Those that would compare what SSV and C3 have done in the U.K. with what Air 2000 is proposing, are forgetting one simple fact. SSV and C3 went to add extra seats for an existing airline that needed the capacity. Air 2000 is proposing to be a defacto Canadian carrier for the winter, which is completely unacceptable, IMHO.


User currently offlineMcdougald From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1677 times:

The whole protectionist atmosphere in which the airlines operate -- for every country a flag carrier regardless of how feeble, no foreign ownership, no foreign crews, stinginess in granting fifth-freedom rights (and even greater stinginess above that) -- is one of the things that has made the industry the wreck it is today.

The best bet for stability in the industry is to allow the surviving carriers to reorganize into a handful of multinational brand names, so that a plane that says Air 2000 or Lufthansa on the side will be no more 'foreign' to Canadians than a car that says Volkswagen or Toyota on it.

If Air 2000 won't be allowed in without jumping the full set of hurdles, then Collenette could at least use Air 2000's access as a bargaining chip toward treaties allowing not just greater freedom in basing aircraft and crews in third countries, but also toward dismantling the rest of the protectionism measures noted above, perhaps starting first with the charters, then the scheduled carriers.



User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1667 times:

"no foreign ownership, no foreign crews"
- There is foreign ownership allowed in the industry, but rightly so, it is capped to a maximum. I don't disagree with the possibility of raising that limit, but allowing a foreign company to just set up shop without restrictions would mean to say goodbye to the Canadian airline industry. Much more powerful foreign airlines would just take over in Canada and use their financial muscles to eliminate what currently exists in Canada.


"The best bet for stability in the industry is to allow the surviving carriers to reorganize into a handful of multinational brand names, so that a plane that says Air 2000 or Lufthansa on the side will be no more 'foreign' to Canadians than a car that says Volkswagen or Toyota on it."
- Your argument has some serious flaws. You want airlines such as Air 2000 and Lufthansa to be able to just operate in Canada exactly the same as if they were in their respective countries, irrespective of whatever consequences they might have on Canada's airlines. You have to remember something ... Toyota, a Japanese automobile manufacturer, does indeed build automobiles in Ontario, sells automobiles across Canada, etc etc. There is a huge difference, because the R&D necessary for a quality automobile to be built is much different than for an airline to operate. Canada does not have the infrastructure to be self sufficient in the automobile industry, building and selling its own cars nationwide! But Canada is more than capable of producing quality airlines which can compete properly in this country.

Now, what you mention that should happen, in effect already does, however, with world airlines joining alliances, in which they cooperate, and together offer their respective customers a much wider route network. As such, Lufthansa can really sell a ticket from Frankfurt to Thunder Bay for instance, thanks to their alliance with Air Canada in Star Alliance. That is something that I believe is helpful and needs to be even further explored in order for companies to expand internationally. There is no reason why a smaller company such as SkyService can't get into an alliance with other airlines in order to properly compete as well.

Ok, I'm blabbing way too long now, but that is my opinion.




"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineYHU From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 428 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1656 times:

I beg to differ. YES you could, at least up until recently by a RAM ticket to fly YUL JFK. I just spoke to someone who inquired about the flight a while back, The only reason he didn't take it was the price was higher than other carriers and it was not on the dates he wanted. So YES, RAM may still have FFR's between YUL and JFK. Why on earth would that be elegal? I mean, it's the whole reason for Fifth Freedom Rights!

Dave


User currently offlineMcdougald From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1652 times:

Captaingomes wrote: "allowing a foreign company to just set up shop without restrictions would mean to say goodbye to the Canadian airline industry"

Why? Just because the ownership rests in another country doesn't mean that everything else goes to that country with it. Perhaps some things would be combined for greater efficiency, but a foreign-owned airline here in Canada would still have large numbers of Canadian-based employees.

Who's to say that foreign ownership restrictions haven't already blocked an investor who might have otherwise been interested in doing something productive with a few of Canada 3000's grounded assets and employees, but quietly decided not to bother because of Collenette's repeated indications that foreign investors can expect a frosty reception unless they're comfortable with the status quo? Never trying something different means never benefitting from the opportunities that might have been missed as a result.

"But Canada is more than capable of producing quality airlines which can compete properly in this country."

Producing and running a successful airline requires a lot of financing and as much flexibility as possible in how that airline is operated. The status quo acts as a hindrance to that: airlines are saddled with rules that only allow them to go out of the country to get financing and investment to the extent that they don't end up breaking the foreign investment limits (a consideration that pushed Canadian to secretly give AMR super-veto rights in exchange for its much-needed investment).

They are further slapped with additional rules that prevent them from making the most productive use of their assets without wading through the red tape: cabotage and fifth-freedom restrictions mean that a Canadian charter operator can't just stop off in, say, Gary/Chicago to freely pick up and drop off passengers on its way to points further south merely because it might be profitable to do so. If they want to do it, there's a rigid, frustrating, byzantine process they must go through first.

Protectionism and government-imposed rigidities have the same effect on the airline industry as they do on any other: they inadvertently restrict the productivity and operational flexibility of the companies in the industry, and that shows up on the industry's bottom line as weak performance. The key to restoring the health of this sickly industry is to let it do what it needs to do to operate economically, and that means putting an end to the era of protected markets and politically imposed rigidities that have served the industry so badly.



User currently offlinePolaris From Canada, joined Feb 2000, 1138 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (12 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1628 times:

On December 6th, Air 2000 received the rights to have its aircraft chartered from Canada to international destinations.

These rights are for Advance Booking Charters, Inclusive Tour Charters, and Common Purpose Charters.


User currently offlineCrosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2597 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (12 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1614 times:
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Yes,
It appears there will be 2 757s to be based in Canada this winter, operating out of Toronto and Winnipeg. Although quite a lot of fuss about this, but in reality it's only a repeat of what happened previously except that Air 2000 are now using their own route authorities as opposed to those of Canada 3000/Royal.

According to what was written on PPRuNE, neither Air Transat or SkyService opposed the granting of fith freedom rights to Air 2000 because they want a long term contract from Signature Vacations, and wouldn't help themselves by upsetting their sister airline.

So this will be a familiar sight for a couple of months;

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Peter Unmuth - Vienna Aviation Photography


Regards
CROSSWIND


User currently offlineYWG777 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (12 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1595 times:

Crosswind,
Can you give me the scoop about this air 200 757 being based in Winnipeg. I need some info. I didn't even know we were getting air 2000 to YWG. I need some details.
thanks
YWG777


User currently offlineFallingeese From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2097 posts, RR: 18
Reply 20, posted (12 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1575 times:

Has there been an inital date set for these aircraft to start operations?

I still don't see the reason for another eastern based charter, when I see that there is an unserved niche in Western Canada for a charter carrier.

Fly Westjet!



Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
User currently offlineYWG From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 1144 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (12 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1573 times:

Not going to happen. Air Transat and Skyservice will take over all the southern routes C3 gave up.


Contact Winnipeg center now on 134.4, good day.
User currently offlineLasbagman From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 367 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (12 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1575 times:

Skyservice will be flying for Signature, Air Transat Holidays and Conquest to LAS.
They will have 10 flights a week to the silver state
from YYZ/YYC/YVR

Air Transat will be pulling out from LAS , the last flight is 16 Dec. This ends 12 years of service.


User currently offlineYWG777 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (12 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1572 times:

YWG, It will give TS, SSV a compition instead of those 2 competing with 1 another. you have to get your facts streight. air 2000 will be in Canada as they have rights. You need to read everything.
YWG777
I am hoping to see this 757
YWG777


User currently offlineYWG From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 1144 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (12 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1568 times:

Shawn (YWG777) The Canadian gov will let their own airlines succeed before ahnding the buisness off to some Eurpoean airline. It's common sense. If air canada doesn't pick the routes down south up. TS or SSV will! :P


Contact Winnipeg center now on 134.4, good day.
25 Post contains links Captaingomes : I guess you haven't been following this thread since the beginning. The brilliant Canadian government has approved this happening already. As a result
26 YWG777 : when is the SSV annoucement taking place about expansion? YWG777
27 Captaingomes : the SSV expansion is apparantly going to be announced in the next couple days. I can't wait to see what they have planned.
28 Rootsgirl : I agree, give Canadian carriers the business! I was under the impression that the Air 2000 operation was for the winter only. Also, I was told that it
29 BWIA330 : Doesnt Air Tours and Skyservice belong to the same company? Look at the logo. Its similar to one another. I cant wait for SSV to get more A330's. Hope
30 Gate Keeper : Sounds like a "Canadian solution" is almost wrapped up. Request to use British carrier, crews still stands By: Susan Pigg, business reporter ---Toront
31 YWG777 : I can't wait to see air 2000 in YWG. As well as the SSV annoucement. I just sure hope its this week. YWG777
32 Captaingomes : Gate Keeper, I just read the article in the Toronto Star myself, and this is something that makes more sense. For those who were undermining what I wa
33 Gate Keeper : I think the idea YWG777 is that you will not see an Air 2000 aircraft flying Canadians(when Canadian airlines can provide the lift) and 10,000+ airlin
34 Lymanm : We keep hearing about TS and SSV taking over for C3's former Signature position. Does anybody have any info relating to how Air Canada, WestJet and Fi
35 Captaingomes : I honestly don't have any concrete info to give you, but I also know that First Air has done so in the past. One thing I have heard from a friend of m
36 YWG777 : Good point about TS SSV. But if air 2000 is here and basing a 757 then its obvious that they came in to help with the C3 pax. That would be the only r
37 Rootsgirl : SSV is contacting in-flight managers today and putting them on an emergency standby list to POSSIBLY train on the B-757. Seems Air 2000 will only be u
38 Crosswind : Can't believe the attitudes of some people in this thread, while you may not like the idea of a British airline operating G- registered aircraft in Ca
39 Captaingomes : Crosswind, with all due respect, I agree with what you have to say for the most part. For the most part, because you are saying like this has happened
40 Post contains images Crosswind : Captaingomes, Yes I agree with your point about this agreement being out-of-the-ordinary in that normally Air Transat/SkyService/Royal/Canada 3000 gro
41 Post contains images Captaingomes : Crosswind, if I were still working with Canada 3000, and were flying to the UK soon, I'd say "let's discuss this at a local pub over a few pints". But
42 Rootsgirl : Guys, they are only utilizing the Air 2000 Front End. All back end are Canadian flight attendants from SSV.
43 Post contains images Slawko : Rootsgirl Air2K is comming with 757's are you guys trained for that airplane, I could see them getting ex royal or c3 people who are already trained t
44 YWG : Air 2000 has been in YWG before while flying MAN-LAX with a 757....for fuel.
45 Post contains images Captaingomes : Rootsgirl, the original plan was to use the 757's with front and back end crews from Air 2000, and had nothing to do with SkyService at all. You may b
46 Fallingeese : So is there been a date set for the approval are appeal yet?
47 Rootsgirl : Guys, SSV will be using ex-c300 f/a's for the 757's and as I am welcoming them to SSV, I am referring to them as SSV F/a's because they are now oficia
48 Crosswind : In a similar vein, thought you might be interested in this from e-Tid yesterday; ----- First Choice firms up Canadian intentions First Choice has join
49 Captaingomes : That's really interesting stuff, and it will be, as rootsgirl has said in the past, a "very interesting year in Canadian aviation." However, that appl
50 Post contains links and images Captaingomes : http://www.nationalpost.com/search/story.html?f=/stories/20011211/843139.html&qs=air%202000 Here's a really good article from the National Post, from
51 Fallingeese : Well said captaingomes. Though what I wonder is how SkyService will arange the crews for expansion and 757.
52 Post contains links and images Slawko : Air 2000 has A320's do they not??? Why not lease some Air 2K 320's using full SSV crews. Even if it takes an extra 320 to cover the leases... Click fo
53 Fallingeese : good point slawko, though I don't know the reason. That's what I enitially thought too but with the 757 then there might be the possibility of an all
54 Captaingomes : I do not know what the logistics are of wet leasing an aircraft that is new to SkyService's fleet. I am assuming the aircraft type has to be certified
55 Rootsgirl : It's not that easy fellas. It's not as simple as a "crosstrain". Given the fact that aircraft is British registered, it must abide by the British safe
56 Post contains images Slawko : Speaking of which, I saw two of the former C3 birds all stickered up in SSV colours...at least now they look good from the outside, even though they a
57 Cmm340 : Just a quick update!! the A320's of the former C'3 have been released by their creditors officially as of 1800L today and will now be officially flyin
58 Cmm340 : forgot to mention, Canada3000's A319 also went to SSV and will be based primarily in YVR. ciao
59 Captaingomes : Holy cow, call me stupid, but I think I wanna invest in SkyService!
60 Fallingeese : Me too! how much is Skyservice stock now?
61 Lasbagman : I work for GlobeGround North America, A LH subsidiary company. We do all the ground operations for SSV. Its music to my ears for all these extra fligh
62 Airman99o : Hey there, Called the crew line today for SSV and we will not be needing the Air 2000 757's. thank god. We recieved the go ahead with the plans on the
63 Post contains images Captaingomes : That's all I have to say
64 Cmm340 : And looks like here they come!!! From Airtours International, Manchester UK(SSV sister company) there are four A320's, being ferried across the pond f
65 YWG777 : Looks like Skyservice is going to do well. anyone know when the annoucement will be made? YWG777
66 Slawko : Before you go off looking for their stock, I don;t know that they are traded on the TSE, and this increase in airplanes is only for the winter (Unless
67 Cmm340 : Leaky is in hiding back in Britian somewhere leaving Angus is still sorting out the Canada3000 mess. Rumour mill has it that the creditors 'were' havi
68 Captaingomes : Slawko, there is a fine line between greed and doing your best to provide a genuine service which not only benefits the company but also its employees
69 Rootsgirl : Slawko, If SSV did not get more airplanes then who would have? You sound as though you are resentful of the fact that we did, but my dear greed is not
70 Captaingomes : Rootsgirl, I think you mean you are eating a chocolate covered strawberry from SkyService, right???
71 Slawko : Actualy rootsgirl, that was not what I meant...I'm not resentfull of any of ssv's recent sucesses. Rather I am saying that some people are quick to ju
72 Cmm340 : I have to agree with Rootsgirl. I don't particularly think SSV is being greedy at all they are merely, providing what is needed. In other words they a
73 Post contains links Cmm340 : Actually, SSV has three A330's, C-FBUS being on lease to Airtours in Manchester for the winter season, the other two which were taken on for the now d
74 Post contains images Slawko : I noticed today that there was another 320 at the north end, I am assuming it was an airtours machine, because the reg was not one of ours...anyway, i
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