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TWA - The Inside Story Of The True Last Days  
User currently offlineN1993R From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (13 years ago) and read 4030 times:

The proud name "Trans World Airlines" disappears from our skies this weekend, its operations to be integrated into those of another proud name, American Airlines.

However, TWA died its true death back in March when their board voted to complete the sale to American Airlines over rival bids from independant consortium "Jet Acquisitions Group" (JAG) headed by J. Ralph Atkin, founder of Skywest Airlines and "TWA Acquisition Group" (TAG) a seperate group headed by Brian Freeman and Carl Icahn, former owner of TWA.

This is the story of some of the memorable events of that hectic first fortnight in March, told from the perspective of a consultant to the JAG bid. Some names have been withheld due to non-disclosure agreements.

March 5, 2001 began with New York city under a severe storm warning. We had flown in from Phoenix the previous night and set up camp at the Hilton Business Center. Our schedule for the day was focussed around the "auction" for TWA which was being conducted at the offices of Kirkland & Ellis, TWA's lawyers, beginning at 10am.

Trying to conduct work on the East Coast when your offices are on the West is always hard, but we had people in Phoenix churning out legal briefs in the wee hours of the morning and faxing them to us at the last minute. To ensure that we were represented there on time, I headed off to K&E's offices with xxx and xxx. We had a fairly large crowd there, a veritable who's who of the industry. Mike Palumbo, TWA's CFO, came over to say hi to us, as did xxx, lawyer for ALPA and Robert Roach of the IAM. Strangely enough, there were very few media people around - the only one I recognized was Jeff Feeley from Bloomberg. Inevitably, we received a cold shoulder from Carl Icahn who sat in the opposite corner of the room with Brian Freeman and Ed Weisfelner - although I do seem to remember that Ed and Leon Marcus came over to exchange pleasantries at some point. Completing the pantomime cast was Emil Bernard of World Airways (sic), resplendant as always in a tailormade suit and mink coat. Notably absent was Bill Compton, as well as any member of AMR's senior management. Alan Miller of Weil, Gotshal & Manges represented AMR. TWA's management was represented by Palumbo, Kate Soled and Mark Abels.

The auction proceedings were a formality since briefs had already been filed, and we knew that the real business would be conducted in the back rooms over lunch. Sure enough, we adjourned for lunch around noon and soon received a visit from a K&E delegation headed up by Jamie Spreyregen, lead counsel on this case. We discussed stuff with them for well over an hour and headed back to the auction room very optimistic about our chances once we provided the documentation requested. Sure enough, Spreyregen adjourned the auction till the 7th at around 2pm, and we headed back to the Hilton desperately needing to get back to Phoenix.

Unfortunately, the-storm-that-never-was had almost every airline cancelling flights to and from New York all day long. The only possibilites to get us back to Phoenix were TWA through St. Louis and ATA through Chicago-Midway. Since TWA was a later flight and a more direct routing, we decided to pick that option.

In the cab on the way to the airport, my cellphone rang. It was Sonia Potter from the NBC affiliate in St.Louis (KSDK). She wanted to know if we could give her any comments about the meeting. Since we were transiting through STL on the way, I offered her an on-camera interview during our layover. She promised to have a crew available and to keep it discreet. TV News? Discreet? Uh huh....

We arrived at a deserted LGA and headed to the TWA counters to pay for and pick up our tickets (did I ever mention how much walkup full-fare tickets suck?). One of the TWA employees recognized our names and the news immediately spread like wildfire. By the time we had reached the gate, I had already received a call from the St.Louis Post-Dispatch asking if we would be willing to do an interview at STL. I figured that since KSDK would already be there, there was nothing to lose, so I consented.

At the gate, we realized that Abels, Palumbo and Soled were all going to be flying back to St.Louis on the same flight as us. Our Y-fares entitled us to Y-UP upgrades into First Class, but we asked to be seated in the back so that we could plot strategy away from their earshot. The 757 was very empty and we had pretty much the entire cabin behind door 3 to ourselves. The only other passengers in that section were a handful of Buddhist monks who sat in silence the whole flight. The Flight Attendants had probably been briefed as to our identities, and we received VIP service. I've never been offered a second round of the cold sandwich in coach before!

We landed in St.Louis on schedule (this was TWA, of course it was on time!) and headed to the gate. I looked out the window and saw a veritable media circus waiting in the terminal. Oh lawd. Tony DePrima was our designated spokesperson and we quickly primped him up. Sure enough, as soon as we were off the jetway we were swamped by 3 TV crews and at least 2 flashbulb wielding print journos. While Tony fielded questions from the TV newshounds, I quietly checked my voicemail to find even more interview requests, notably from the Washington Post and the AP.

We headed over to our connection with TV cameras still in tow and finally boarded the PACKED MD-80. I spent the last minutes before the doors closed giving an interview to the AP from my exit-row seat. The FA gave me some nasty looks during this. I guess she wanted to work for AA?


Ironically enough, that turned out to be my last flight on TWA. I think its fitting to say that it was a pretty memorable one?

March 9 required us to be in Wilmington, DE for Judge Peter Walsh to rule on the auction proceedings. By now, AMR had raised their bid by $245 million which had put them back in the driver's seat. Our plan was to have a late evening strategy meeting in Phoenix on the 8th and then catch the Continental redeye to Newark, connecting to Amtrak for the ride down to Delaware. Our lawyers were already in Wilmington and joined our strategy pow-wow via conference call.

The two of us that were headed to the East Coast set off for the airport clutching our papers and desperately trying to convince Continental to clear our Elite upgrades. I mean c'mon, we were just a Gold and a Silver, but I think the walkup fare more than justified upgrading us? Alas not. The flight was so full that the only seats we could secure were a window and middle in the last row of coach.

After we boarded, the captain announced that a ground engineer had discovered that a flap pin had become damaged during the inbound flight, and as a result we would have to switch aircraft. This tacked on an extra hour to our already tight schedule and left us scrambling to reschedule things. Our plan had been to freshen up and change at the President's Club in Newark, but that had to be scrapped now. I called xxx in Salt Lake City and told him to reschedule our train reservations and to call me back on the GTE AirFone inflight.

We eventually got airborne and set course for Newark. I explained to the FA's in the rear galley what we were up to and they were very helpful. I dragged my small travel iron out of my carry-on and they helped me set up a makeshift ironing board from empty bar cart drawers. In the middle of my ironing, my seat mate from the last row came back to say that the AirFone was ringing with an incoming call for me. Sure enough, our Amtrak had been rescheduled and we were now booked on the Acela. Sweet.


I'm skipping forward in the diary at this point since it gets a little boring. The scene now shifts to the federal courthouse in Wilmington, DE.

The lobby was teeming with reporters. I was recognized by Steve Jankowski (NBC) and John Mills (CBS) and they made an immediate beeline with cameras in tow. I declined comment, but promised to keep them informed as the day progressed. There were a group of APFA Flight Attendants from American Airlines protesting outside and they were getting their share of attention until the TWA pilots showed up.

The TWA pilots entered, about 200-strong, in full uniform and wearing oversized buttons saying "NO ICAHN". Then Bill Compton entered, a former TWA pilot himself and now CEO of the company. He said a few polite hellos to various people in the lobby. "I'm glad to see you guys made it today" were his words to me. Compton then moved to a corner of the lobby and addressed the pilots. His words will stay with me forever.

"Today, we stand here to bid goodbye to the grand old dame that we dedicated our lives to. Believe me, it is the hardest thing that I will ever do to sell her, but I truly believe this is the best option available for the airline and more importantly for her people. Thanks for showing up and Godspeed." There was hardly a dry eye in the entire lobby after that.


Finally, my last diary excerpt comes from the next evening. Judge Peter Walsh had all but ruled in favor of American Airlines and the only remaining formality was for the ink to dry on the paperwork. I had a quick meeting in Nashville, so I routed myself back to Atlanta on Delta via CVG and BNA.

I came back in through security and realized that I had about an hour to kill before my Delta flight. Looking at the arrival boards, I noticed that TWA had an arrival from St.Louis due in before that. Lacking anything better to do, I wandered down to the TWA gate. The gate was spartan compared to all the other airlines, but the gold TWA sign on the wall shone as though someone had spent a lot of time polishing her just that morning. The old DC9 landed and taxied in to the gate, discharging her human cargo. A few minutes later, the crew emerged from the jetway. The captain's first question to the agent at the podium was "What happened in Delaware?". The agent began to explain what she knew from various news reports.

I stepped up and introduced myself to the Captain at that point. I told him that I had been in Wilmington that morning and gave him a quick summary of what had transpired. As we spoke, we were joined by the co-pilot and the 3 flight attendants. One of the flight attendants began sobbing when she heard that the sale was almost final. I shook the Captain's hand and wished him well, and the crew set off to their layover hotel.

I sat at the gate in Nashville and looked out at an old, but gleaming DC9-30 sporting the name "TRANS WORLD AIRLINES", an aged but still proud legacy of the past. Tears rolled down my cheeks, but I couldn't bring myself to move. Then a Delta 757 landed, my ride to Atlanta, and I dragged myself away. As I turned the corner towards the Delta gates, I looked back at the gleaming TWA sign. The light caught it an a good angle and it appeared that she was winking at me. I turned again, this time never to look back. TWA was dead for me. She will be missed.


26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHoffa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (13 years ago) and read 3819 times:

Without a doubt...biggest bunch of con-artists I've ever seen.

Who the hell are you guys anyway? Emil Bernard I know as the owner of the one cellphone registered to the phonesex operator known as "Global Airways".

The rest are what? College pukes with big imaginations? Failed small-potato loansharks?


User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (13 years ago) and read 3791 times:

Without a doubt...biggest bunch of con-artists I've ever seen.


Who the hell are you guys anyway? Emil Bernard I know as the owner of the one cellphone registered
to the phonesex operator known as "Global Airways".


The rest are what? College pukes with big imaginations? Failed small-potato loansharks?

What are you? Some Teamster or something? You should stick to unionizing truck drivers. You're clearly in over your head when it comes to airlines.



It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineHoffa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (12 years 12 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3787 times:

This just gets weirder all the time...

Some kind of worldwide conspiracy of bullshitters, fakes and phonies consisting of:

Neil Robertson, a.k.a. Ceilidh, The Guvnor (self-proclaimed entrepeneur and aviation 'consultant')

Sean Mendis, a.k.a. B747-437B (a GATech student masquerading as another "aviation consultant"---his Dad is an Air India F/A and he makes trips all around the country in pursuit of FF miles)

Albert C. Vitale....very mysterious figure. Businessman of some sort, later emerged as a "saviour" figure for TWA in conjunction with the phonsex operator called Global Airways.

Other figures including Emil Bernard, Ralph Atkin, of whom know very little.

Who's funding these guys and what is it they are trying to achieve?

What a strange little world we live in. Can anyone shed light on these backroom shady operators?


User currently offlineHoffa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (12 years 12 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3762 times:

I know about Neil Robertson and his 44 imaginary L1011's but its the rest that truly puzzle me.





User currently offlineHoffa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (12 years 12 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3747 times:

Don't mean to clog up the forum with posts, but what exactly was the point of the above article? Does anybody really believe that TWA would have been better off with a bunch of crooks that emerged at the last possible minute from nowhere with a mystery $325M bid than with American?


User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (12 years 12 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3744 times:

Hoffa...

Please find another place to post your bullshit. Nobody here is interested.



It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineTsully From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 651 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (12 years 12 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3735 times:

I don't even pretend to understand the politics behind this story, but anyone with the name Ichan can only be bad news. TWA is much better off with AA than Ichan.




I love America. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle, but I'd rather be a dog in New York City than a prince in Riyadh.
User currently offlineAcvitale From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 922 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (12 years 12 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3748 times:

N1993R without breaking my NCNDA that is about the way I remember it.

As for who the parties were.. Well there was a lot more going on in the realm outside public view then there will ever be known. The deals were dirty and unfair and behind closed doors. It was a traversty at the time.

Funny thing, But it is amazing on how we predicted what would happen following an AA takeover.. I feel vindicated..

As for the IAM comments.. I would not bash the IAM the leadership saw what was going on and tried to do what they could for the membership but, the options were limited and very few (if any) good choices remained by Jan 2001.

TWA sadly was flown into the ground... Between the greed and egos of the many involved and the knowledge gained before during and after the Jan 8th filing it is novel material. Unfortunately what might be the most gripping tale of American aviation will never be told as all whom know it are bound by dozens of legal agreements that will hold them from disclosing till at least 2011. And then whom would care?

A C Vitale


User currently offlineHoffa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (12 years 12 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3729 times:

DeltaSFO,

Please do not speak to presume what the rest of the forum is interested in. I have a full mind to keep the discussion civil and get whatever information I can about these people.

We have "N1993R" with the inside scoop on the Global Airlines bid led by Al Vitale, Emil Bernard, and Ralph Atkin (most likely with Carl Icahn in the wings somewhere. Where on earth did he get such a document...certainly not from any mainstream media source. If there is to be a discussion about the merits of the failed bid, let us first and foremost know who these people are and what their agenda is.

AFAIK, Global Airlines came as quickly as it went and also made an offer for USAirways at one point. These people are extremely disreputable and not to be trusted.

However, I'd love to be proved wrong.


User currently offlineHoffa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (12 years 12 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3717 times:

ACVitale---pot calling the kettle black, eh? Long time no see around these boards....

Sure AA and Compton cannot claim clean hands but neither can your "crew". If you aim to tell the true story, let's hear your side of it starting with how the hell a couple of pathological liars, a college student, and a phonesex operator were going to raise $325M to "save" TWA.



User currently offlineAcvitale From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 922 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (12 years 12 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3707 times:

Hoffa,

First, We had nothing to do with Global or Bernard. If you claim to have followed the story you would know they were competing bidders,


Second, Compton was definately not guilty of anything but, trying to get his employees the best deal.

Third, We had no phonesex tie ins that was Global

Fourth, Pathelogical Liars.. Interesting.. As best I know our crew was limited to not being able to disclose any details.. that NCNDA stands till Jan 2011.

Fifth, Our bid and financing was not a paltry 325 Million but the whole deal revolved around 4.7 Billion which included buying leased aircraft, purchase of carrier assets, new infrastructure and marketing, new IT systems, and much much more. It was to comprise of investment funds, airframe manufacter financing, and approx 1.98 Billion in cash.

While B747437B might have been a college student, His insight and involvement were excellent. (His father is not a f/a but rather management senior pilot for AI another misnomer)

Additionally, While not disclosing any information.. It should be noted that the purposed JAG board consisted of several CEOs of Aircraft leasors, upper management of General Electric and several major aircraft manufacterers. Unfortuantely the public will not know how close JAG came and how far they had already gone including renegotiated purchase and lease deals and fuel contracts that alone would have made the carrier profitable without the additional reinvestment that was planned.

And if you haven't seen me for a long time then you haven't been looking.. I have been here since May (I did take 5 months off due to my employer stipulations with JAG)

Now that is reality.. Who are you and what is your beef?


User currently offlineAcvitale From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 922 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (12 years 12 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3703 times:

BTW, Icahn was with TAG not JAG...

JAG actually went thru hell and back to avoid the Icahn tie in and could have easily pushed the deal thru if they were willing to make a deal with the devil.

Al


User currently offlineCeilidh From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (12 years 12 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3709 times:

Hoffa, you don't know me and it's highly unlikely that you know any of the JAG people. DeltaSFO can confirm that our interest in the Delta aircraft was perfectly genuine - indeed, we were scheduled to close in October but you might have seen in passing that there was a minor event in the States on the 11th September that brought transatlantic traffic and much of the world's leading airlines to a screeching halt.

I was not involved in any way, shape or form with the JAG bid; though I do know several of their backers and those involved with them.

Your post is libellous, certainly as far as I am concerned - and you therefore are required to retract your statement about me with a full and sincere apology or I shall bring this to the attention of the board's owner.

Incidentally, your posts have shown that you don't have the slightest grasp of either the personalities here or what actually went on.


User currently offlineAcvitale From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 922 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (12 years 12 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3705 times:

Hoffa,

One more thing... I was merely an employee and hardly the leader of the JAG group. I would note that I tried to stay out of the media eye which was not only impossible but, ackward.

To my knowledge none of the principals of JAG use the net regularily nor use any of the popular discusion boards on aviation.

Al


User currently offlineMinuteman From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (12 years 12 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3698 times:

too weird...

I did a quick search on the net for some one the names mentioned above and pieced toghther an interesting impression.

First, it seems pretty obvious that these guys aren't interested in running an airline (my opinion) based on the fact that after being snubbed three times (PanAm, TWA, and USAir) for a lack of credibility and experience, they still haven't tried starting smaller.

Then there's Alliance Aircraft, which is just as etherial. Global supposedly has 200+ firm orders and 200 options from this "manufacturer" which so far hasn't produced anything. That's a big damn leap for a small start.

I think the whole thing is a PR sham. Everytime this cast of characters shows up on the scene, somebody's stock price goes up.


User currently offlineAcvitale From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 922 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (12 years 12 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3682 times:

Minuteman,

To my knowledge JAG is not GLOBAL... No one on this board is Global.. Global was a carrier proposed by Emil Bernard that was a sham..

I am a former Pan Am employee and GECAS employee...

Before you slander you better start figuring out which group was which group...

Ralph Atkins whom was the CEO of JAG is the former CEO of Skywest and is still on the board and was the founder of the same.

Again, Do you consider Skywest the most successful independent regional airline in the world to be a sham?

Stop comparing Global, TAG and JAG... They were all different groups and the only real group interested in running an airline with real experience was JAG...

Al


User currently offlineMinuteman From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (12 years 12 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3675 times:

heh...

slander and stating my opinion are two different things. I'm not making any claims.

as for getting things straight, I recommend you start with the journalists who are publishing these incorrect associations instead of dickering on an internet message board about what you can't say.


User currently offlineAcvitale From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 922 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (12 years 12 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3676 times:

I cannot deal with the idiots out here... This is too much.. Ya know I think Hoffa and minuteman must be disguntled AA fans.

At least I sleep well at night.. Tonight it will be without any more of the BS known as Airliners.net..

Some of you people are incredible.. So much BS and so much crap posted in an instant..

I know there is a reason why most airline management avoids boards like these... The real sham is people like Bernard, Global, Icahn, TAG and the BS artists like Hoffa and Minuteman.

Good night all..


User currently offlineAcvitale From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 922 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (12 years 12 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3672 times:

Nice cover minuteman but not true.. I am done with you hoffa and the rest...

I know about every report that was written and I know none of them Had myself JAG or Atkins being associated with Bernard, Global, or TAG or Icahn...

I am outta here for tonight.. But I bet your BS reputation you cannot post a single link that says other wise... Heck I would put money on it..

You are a sham and it is disgusting that irk like you is out there...


User currently offlineBaxter From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 6 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (12 years 12 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3632 times:

It is a shame when a tribute about TWA has to degenerate into a flame war. I read the entire article posted by N1993R/B747437B/whatever his real name is and it came across as a sincere tribute to TWA from a young man who was intimately involved with the sale of the airline.

User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (12 years 12 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3627 times:

DeltaSFO,

Please do not speak to presume what the rest of the forum is interested in.


I suggest you take look in the mirror. You are doing precisely the same thing by bombarding the forum with your crap.

I have a full mind to keep the discussion civil and get whatever information I can about these people.

Please. Spare us the bullshit. What you've said is hardly civil. Your posts are full of personal attacks and juvenile namecalling and have ZERO basis in fact. The only kind of information you seem to be giving about the individuals in question is misinformation.

I have no idea who you are, what your motives are, but may I suggest, Hoffa/Minuteman/B707-437B/whoever you are, that you do us all a favor and f**k off.



It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (12 years 12 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3584 times:

Hoffa-or should I call you B707-437B, you have this obsession with Sean, don't you? I mean, maybe you should go to the Non-Av forum, and take the "How Gay Am I?" test. You're getting rather embarrassing with your obsession, my friend!

As for if JAG was real, I've seen the bank notes for the cash they had on hand in their attempt to purchase TWA. I read the articles written by a "journalist", a.k.a. and Ass-Kisser for Carty and American, who constantly published erroneous, even knowingly false statements about JAG and the people involved. I'm not privy to the inside stuff, but I've talked with Sean and Al enough, and seen enough documentation to know for certain this wasn't a sham. It was a serious, serious bid to save TWA from oblivion. But the odds were against them from the beginning. But it didn't stop them from trying.

And Hoffa, just stay away from here, Mr. B707-437B. I thought it was funny that you've been "alive" on here for 11 days, yet you told Al that it's been a long time since you have seen him on here. And you have the nerve to rag Sean for having multiple names? You are a hypocrite.

Just because a bid failed, doesn't mean it wasn't legitimate. This one was. Ichan's bid failed, and despite the fact everyone hates his guts, no one here is de-legitimizing his bid, are they.


User currently offlineHoffa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (12 years 12 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3508 times:

Ceilidh, Who's making slanderous accusations here? The mystery author of the original 'article' casts known con-artists and people of dubious reputation as would-be saviours of a cherished icon (TWA)--again I would very much like to ascertain its source. You're correct that I don't have anywhere near a full grasp on the story but then again I don't claim to--hence my earlier request for more information.

What I do see is a motley crew of semi-knowledgeable enthusiasts who cast themselves as entrepeneurs, consultants, and the like---all of whom spend inordinate amounts of time on internet messageboards and other fora who have a gentleman's agreement to vouchsafe each other's fabricated identity---very dubious IMHO. Somehow they all know each other and are simultaneously involved in some multibillion dollar aviation-related scheme.

The fact that this group includes a college student who made megalomaniac claims of influence among the world's airlines (it was later discovered his father was an Air India F/A) and a gate agent for Delta Airlines makes this all the more farcical.

Again, I don't know the story, but obviously there is more to it than meets the eye.


User currently offlineBaxter From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 6 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (12 years 12 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3490 times:

What I do see is a motley crew of semi-knowledgeable enthusiasts who cast themselves as entrepeneurs, consultants, and the like---all of whom spend inordinate amounts of time on internet messageboards and other fora who have a gentleman's agreement to vouchsafe each other's fabricated identity---very dubious IMHO. Somehow they all know each other and are simultaneously involved in some multibillion dollar aviation-related scheme.

Or perhaps they are who they claim to be and you are a crazy person with an agenda to pursue? Frankly, I don't care either way. This thread has gone to hell already and it is a damn shame to see a fine piece like this soiled by this petty bickering.


25 Hoffa : Alpha1, I don't think I know you. Hoffa-or should I call you B707-437B, you have this obsession with Sean, don't you? I mean, maybe you should go to t
26 Ceilidh : Hoffa/B707-437B - the only person making libellous statements around here is you. (FWIW, slander = spoken; libel = written). Whilst I can't speak for
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