Serge From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1989 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (12 years 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 1550 times:
Hmmmmm, I too was wondering this but I think he has a brother? I bet once castro dies his brother will take control. I doubt the US will intervine anytime soon either, we really don't need something like the Bay of Pigs happening again (correct me if I'm wrong, thats what the incident before the Cold War was referred to as right )
Believe me, I'd like to see castro and his brother dead just as much as you do...hehehehhaaah
Co/ba From United States of America, joined May 2001, 399 posts, RR: 3 Reply 2, posted (12 years 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 1535 times:
I know that CO has or had a charter run to Cuba a few times a week. I definately think CO will be one of the first U.S. Airlines to serve Cuba. On another note Copa (partly owned by CO)serves Cuba rom Panama.
Boeing757fan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (12 years 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 1525 times:
Sun Country also...
I personally feel it should be illegal for all americans to go to Cuba right now. I do know its possible for americans to catch flights to Cuba via foriegn ports. Our friggin military is down there, and they cannot leave the base because of the relations between the US and Cuba, and US Civilians are in Havana shopping? What a joke.
Anyhoo, I too will love to goto Cuba, AFTER flights from the USA are more or less routine.
will be the first ones to go...
That terminal there in Havana must need work. Would it be able to handle all the flights?
Aviatsiya From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (12 years 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 1511 times:
What is a joke is that America has a military base on Cuban sovereign soil, without the permission of the Cuban government in Havana. That is what is a joke!
Also, why do people think that once Castro is dead everything will change. Don't people realise that support for the revolution is still high in Cuba? Are people really that stupid to think that Fidel hasn't stayed in power by keeping people who are devoted to the revolution around him. These people will most likely continue with the revolution after Fidel's death, which will further piss off the Yanks.
What is a joke also, is that American airlines are currently allowed to fly to Cuba on charters, but why isn't Cubana granted the same privilege????????????
Hoffa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (12 years 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 1499 times:
Hmm Aviatsiya...didn't know there was much of a charter market from Cubans wishing to travel to the United States. Seems like Fidel might have a bit of a problem with that one even if Cubana could obtain the requisite authority (They already overfly the US en-route to Canada).
I doubt the revolution will "continue" long after Castro's deaths and there are, to be fair, a good number of Cubans that don't support it (N.B. Thousands of political prisoners aren't being locked up for nothing). There is at least some indigenous dissent (however small) which does not necessarily mean people will rush with open arms to the US when Castro dies.
And while Castro has been over-demonized in my opinion he has to be honest made some nasty mistakes (i.e. Angola) over the years.
I think it's a legitimate concern that US corporations will swoop into Cuba and buy up every sizeable bit of industry and agriculture they can lay their hands on.
RayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 5 Reply 7, posted (12 years 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 1476 times:
I'll say this: once the embargo is lifted against Cuba, you KNOW that AA will swoop in like an eagle (pun really intended!) and hog most of the MIA-HAV and JFK-HAV traffic. AA might as well start assigning 757-200's to the MIA-HAV route, probably flying between MIA and HAV at least once an hour from 0700 to 2100 hours local time.
Hoffa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (12 years 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 1458 times:
Actually Aviatsiya, the state of Florida is actively formulating disaster preparations for what is expected to be a huge effort on the part of Cuban exiles living in Florida to set sail for Cuba and bring back as many family members as they can carry once Castro has died and the chaotic conditions that will result.
Whether or not this will come to pass, only time can tell.
Afay1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1293 posts, RR: 3 Reply 9, posted (12 years 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 1456 times:
The idea that Havana airport would need our investment is ridiculous as it implied the same sort of anachronistic ideas that keep relations between the two countries from normalizing. Without getting into it, it is suffice to say that since pretty much every other international airline flies to Havana and foreign tourists (i.e. Europeans) have been going there for years, the terminal is probably doing just fine without us.
Ironminds From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 556 posts, RR: 4 Reply 13, posted (12 years 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 1431 times:
I'm sure AA will come in, too -- they're a natch for Cuban service.
I'm an AMerican who has travelled to the island, via Nassau, and it's pretty easy to do if you know what you're doing. I also found that support for the revolution was superficial at best, and that Castro uses the embargo as a distration for all the horrible conditions on his island economically and politically -- which is why the policy is such a poor idea. It only props the bastard up.
What is even more ridiculous that "an american base on cuba without their permission" (let's see them do something about it) is all the personal property that was taken from cubans without their permission during the revolution.
Mcdougald From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (12 years 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 1406 times:
The surest bets to start Havana service after Castro is gone are those airlines with hubs in New York City, Florida and close to the Gulf. Typical routes we'll most likely see started, assuming these carriers are still around:
- American, from Miami, New York JFK, Chicago and Dallas/Fort Worth; perhaps from LAX, too. (AA and/or American Eagle would almost certainly have an interest in seeking routes to other Cuban destinations from MIA, such as Varadero, Santiago de Cuba, etc.)
- Continental, from Newark and Houston
- Delta, from Atlanta and New York JFK
- United, from Washington Dulles, Chicago and possibly others.
As for the other issues raised:
- The U.S. base at Guantanamo is legal. If I remember correctly, the U.S. has a lease, agreed to by the Cuban government in the 1930s, that can only be terminated by abandonment or mutual agreement.
- A new terminal was opened at HAV in the past few years. I think it was a Canadian company that designed and built it.
- After Castro dies, a nominal attempt will be made to keep the 'revolution' going, but it won't last long. In a best-case scenario, Cuba will follow the Czech scenario and make a quick transition to a stable, law-based democracy. In a worst-case scenario, it will become a Caribbean Russia, overrun with organized crime and plagued by the effects of political, social and economic shock therapy.
Flying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4137 posts, RR: 38 Reply 15, posted (12 years 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 1396 times:
Well, honestly I don´t hope that American tourists rush into Cuba. Please don´t understand me wrong but currently the hotels and clubs are points where you don´t have a 24-hours entertainment but they are places where you can relax. With american tourists rushing into the country this would likely change to 24-hour entertainment-clubs (in those it doesn´t matter in which country you are like with the big cruise ships such as the "Carnival Triumph" or "Brilliance of the Seas" ) very soon, taking the island its flair which is soooo much liked by European tourists. I know that I´ve limited US-american citizens just to persons only wanting entertainment all day long but pitily this is what I´ve experienced at several occations and I don´t want the cuban hospitality and friendliness destroyed - its such a nice place for holidays!
Aviatsiya From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (12 years 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 1388 times:
OK....the Guantanamo base in Cuba is as a result of a treaty signed. BUT...seeing as Castro's government is the legitimate government in Cuba (even though America does not recognise it), any agreements must be considered null and void surely?
I doubt the revolution will "continue" long after Castro's deaths and there are, to be fair, a good number of Cubans that don't support it (N.B. Thousands of political prisoners aren't being locked up for nothing).
That's not good huh? But then again, I suppose its better than the days under Batista when political opponents weren't jailed; they were shot.
In a worst-case scenario, it will become a Caribbean Russia, overrun with organized crime and plagued by the effects of political, social and economic shock therapy.
Oh...you mean a return to the Batista days? How fun!
TransSwede From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 993 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (12 years 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 1374 times:
>I personally feel it should be illegal for all americans to
>go to Cuba right now.
Why not start flights now? Why not open up full diplomatic relations now? Why wait for Castro to die? This whole embargo is just antiquated... Newsflash! The Cold war is over. Cuba presents a 0% threat.
So you want Cuba to change? How about changing how we treat Cuba? I mean, afterall, the current strategy has worked SO WELL for the last 30 years. (sarcasm for the sarcasm impaired).
The fastest and most reliable way of changing Cuba would be to open up to Cuba, allowing the free movement of ideas and capital. You can't force freedoms on people - you have to expose them to it, and let them choose.
Nicolaki From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (12 years 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 1370 times:
Correction, Cubana is not allowed to fly over the US on it's way to Canada. Why do you think that their A320's needs a fuel stop at Halifax when then fly in and out of Montreal? They are flying over the atlantic and not over the US soil.
Flying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4137 posts, RR: 38 Reply 19, posted (12 years 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 1368 times:
TransSwede... best words I´ve read on this forum for a long long time... Maybe western countries - not only the US (I can only speak for Germany) - should re-think their whole foreign politic. From my point of view an inadequate politic by most western countries was the reason which brought the world into the current mess. But this does not really belong into this topic...
Aviatsiya From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (12 years 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 1363 times:
With american tourists rushing into the country this would likely change to 24-hour entertainment-clubs (in those it doesn´t matter in which country you are like with the big cruise ships such as the "Carnival Triumph" or "Brilliance of the Seas" ) very soon, taking the island its flair which is soooo much liked by European tourists.
Flying-Tiger, while I would support what you say about the European tourists, don't you think that Cuba is also a big hit with the Europeans because of the total lack of American tourists which are like rats on the other islands.....as in....they are f***ing everywhere.
Nicolaki....is the CU stop in Halifax a tech-stop only? Or are they allowed to sell Havana-Halifax tickets?
Pll-lot From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 112 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (12 years 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 1354 times:
It's always so nice to read a thread, become interested, then here Americans compared to rats and other dispicable things. Why is this necessary? Is it ever possible to be civil? I mean, I don't get on here and say stereotypical things about Germans and Russians. On an airliner board, I find it really disturbing that it's so accepted to be so hateful. Aren't we better than that--as humans?
Flying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4137 posts, RR: 38 Reply 22, posted (12 years 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 1350 times:
Aviatsyia, while I don´t have read your last words I believe that the main reason why european tourists -especially Germans and Britons - are visiting Cuba is that the island has not been converted into an out-sized "DisneyLand" to fullfil "american standarts of holiday" (as already pointed out the endless entertainment). I have nothing against US citizens - I have some friends living there - but their thinking of "holiday" is not comparable to the image of holiday European´s have. This is at least what I´ve experienced so please don´t start bashing me because of a personal statement.
Pll-lot From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 112 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (12 years 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 1338 times:
I'm American--and I know that might idea of holiday is not having to work, and possibly enjoying some sun and quiet. Most people are like this here, just as in Europe--and would prefer to relax rather than to be constantly entertained. I think your image of the American having to be entertained 24 hours a day results from the media's concentration on holiday travelers as those having children--who do need entertainment. And before we start bashing Disney, remember that a very large portion of visitors to Disneyworld come from abroad--particularly from Europe.
Flying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4137 posts, RR: 38 Reply 24, posted (12 years 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 1332 times:
Pll-lot, I agree with you. I haven´t bashed Disney - it is just THE world-known full-size entertainment parc and I picked it as an example to show you how I don´t want Cuba to become.
About the European tourists and DisneyLand you´re right. However most only stay there for two, three days, usually at the end of a round-trip through a part of the States, not for a full-size holiday like media always suggests Americans are doing. Maybe my understanding about this is wrong, then please correct me. But I think you´ve understood what I wanted to point out.