MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31115 posts, RR: 74 Posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1124 times:
And to think, this only includes FLL-NYC. Add PBI-NYC (#7) and MIA-NYC (#12) as well, and the South Florida-NYC market dominates . I am a little shocked that PBI-NYC is above MIA-NYC. Frequency is similar (PBI is 22 dailies, MIA is 20) and AA uses large A300s and 757s to JFK, EWR, and LGA (though I'm sure PBI probably get's some large planes too).
N.Y. to Fort Lauderdale is nation's most traveled air route
By Tom Stieghorst
Posted December 5 2001
Airport officials said Tuesday that the popular New York-Fort Lauderdale run had become the most heavily traveled airline route in the country in the first six months of 2001.
Over 9,700 passengers a day board 38 flights shuttling daily between Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport and three major airports in the New York area.
The route has grown steadily more popular with passengers in recent years. In the winter of 1999 it was the third most traveled route, behind only New York-Los Angeles and Honolulu-Maui. It moved up to second last year, supplanting the Hawaiian islands pair.
This year it overtook the New York-Los Angeles transcontinental route, which accounted for an average of 7,800 passengers a day, airport officials said.
Only the 34th largest airport in the country, Fort Lauderdale has also been one of the fastest growing airports because of relatively low costs and its central geographic position among the three counties that make up South Florida. Except for Florida, New York is the largest origination market for Fort Lauderdale, accounting for 11.3 percent of all visitors in 2000, followed by Pennsylvania at 3.8 percent and New Jersey at 3.7 percent.
The information about which routes are most popular with passengers is tracked by Aviation Daily, an airline trade publication.
Fort Lauderdale has benefited from the buildup of discount service to the New York area, most notably by jetBlue Airways, which began operations in February 2000 by flying between Fort Lauderdale and New York's JFK International Airport. Miramar-based Spirit Airlines is another discount carrier that has expanded in the New York area.
Delta Air Lines and Continental Airlines, however, remain the two carriers with the most capacity on those routes, airport officials said.
The New York-West Palm Beach route ranked No. 7 in the top 25 routes compiled by Aviation Daily for flights of over 750 miles, while New York-Miami ranked No. 12.
DCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4402 posts, RR: 37 Reply 1, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1009 times:
New York can thank JetBlue, and JetBlue alone, for making NYC-FLL its most traveled route. Delta and Continental might have the most capacity. But they wouldn't be bothering to offer lower fares and more seats if they didn't have JetBlue to compete with. The dominant airline on a major route with low-fare competition between major airport, generally lowers fares to keep market share.
I'd be curious to know if DL or CO had more capacity on NYC-FLL *before* JetBlue's eight daily 162-seat flights from JFK. Might there be some capacity dumping going on here?
The Gold Coast real estate developers must love JetBlue. Pricey condos on the waterfront are all the more attractive, when the retirees know their children and grandchildren can afford to come down and visit.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31115 posts, RR: 74 Reply 2, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 994 times:
DCA-ROC Guy, first six months of 2001 was only 6 daily. It is currently 8 daily. Goes to 10 daily the day after X-Mas. I believe DL has increased capacity between NYC and FLL since jetBlue, at least to JFK. Your right that South Floridians love them, though.
Hoffa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 979 times:
As far as I can remember fares were always cheap from the NYC area to wherever one wanted to go in Florida, Jetblue or no Jetblue. Its been my experience with B6 that the cheapest tickets sell out very quickly, leaving fares well over the $200 mark which any major airline can easily beat.
Midweek, Saturday night stay fares (LGA-FLL) were never more than $150 in the past and today run in the $120-160 range. I think the impact of Jetblue to the consumer is overstated, even if they are chipping away at the bottom line yields of the majors.
DL has been running 8-10 daily 763/L10's on the route for years--don't really see any evidence for capacity dumping.
Timz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6465 posts, RR: 8 Reply 5, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 934 times:
...between airport-pair and city-pair.
The busiest airport-pair in the US may be HNL-OGG, but whatever it is I'm guessing it doesn't include FLL.
If you combine LGA-EWR-JFK, then you should at least combine SFO-OAK and LAX-BUR, in which case the "San Francisco-Los Angeles" city-pair remains the busiest in the US. As it probably has been for the last forty years or so.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31115 posts, RR: 74 Reply 7, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 916 times:
Timz, I agree. Combine SFO/OAK/SJC, combine ONT/LGB/LAX/BUR, but also combine FLL/PBI/MIA. MDW/ORD, DAL/DFW, DCA/IAD, and HOU/IAH are all combined.
Boeing Nut, no, no 747s or 777s. UA does have a 763ER on MIA-JFK and AA uses quite a few A300s to EWR and JFK. CO will launch the 753 on EWR-FLL while DL uses the 764 on FLL-LGA. Tower Air, however, used to fly and fill 741s daily on MIA-JFK AND FLL-JFK. AA does ocassionally use a 763 as well. Nine airlines--Southwest, jetBlue, Spirit, American, Continental, Delta, Delta Express, USAirways, and United-- fly between South Florida and NYC.
Boeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 906 times:
Thanks for the info. I used to work for Broward/FLL, and I remember that Tower started that route when I left and Delta was flying the L-1011. So, CO is launching the 753 on the EWR route? Cool!! I'm really surprised that neither UA or AA is using 777's yet.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31115 posts, RR: 74 Reply 9, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 900 times:
Boeing Nut, UA doesn't use 777s because the four 777s based at MIA run the rotations EZE-MIA-LAX-MIA-EZE and GRU-MIA-SFO-MIA-GRU, each which take two days to complete. I think it would be nice to see AA 777s on MIA-JFK, but the seven 777s that are here again are busy doing Latin America, as well as DFW, LHR, and LAX (though two more 777s are coming next Saturday!). None the less, I think the A300 is the best airline for the market. 777 is probably to expensive to operate on MIA-JFK, although UA uses 777s frequently (usually weekends during the winter) on MIA-IAD and thrice a week on MIA-HAV.
Hoffa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 870 times:
Unless you live in Queens, why would you go out of your way to fly Jetblue when its costing over double the amount of the next nearest competitor? For me, a cheaper flight out of LGA plus the miles are worth it to not have to schlepp all the way out to JFK.
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 58 Reply 12, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 839 times:
Interesting, note that CO flies its 752s on almost every flight between EWR and FLL, and will introduce the 753 on to the route in January with 2 daily round-trips.
But, I am old (over 40), and I remember when the NYC-FLL routes were dominated by Eastern L1011s and A300s out of JFK, LGA and EWR, and National DC-10s also out of all three NYC airports. The same was true to PBI and MIA, but to MIA you had the option of National 747 service. Times have changed; one winter, I think both Eastern and National advertised that they were all wide-body to MIA and FLL out of the NYC area.
Spinkid From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1000 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 793 times:
yeah, Spirit offers cheap flights LGA-FLL, but they offer one of the worst products going. They don't compare at all to jetBlue.
LGA is more convenient to Manhattan, but if you live on Long Island or Connecticut it doesn't make much difference.
Flights have always been cheap on this route in the past few years at least, there has always been someone offering low fares like Carnival, Pan Am II, Braniff III, SkyBus, Sunjet, etc. However, jetBlue is the first to really load up capacity, none of those carriers ever offered 6-10 non stops a day on the route, at best it was 1 or 2.
Hoffa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 792 times:
Spirit...ugh. I don't play games with my life that way and I am happy to pay extra for the piece of mind. They will get you there, but how they manage to do it is beyond me.
I think the Holidays are upon us and the airlines are milking we consumers just a bit. The cheapest fares are long gone unless you want to make 3 connections on USAirways through the backwoods of Virginia.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31115 posts, RR: 74 Reply 18, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 791 times:
ILS, Miami. Miami is only 19 miles to the North. The FLL area also has a big business community, with major corporations based there including Office Depot, Sports Authroity, ANC, AutoNation, FPL, Citrix Systems, and a few others. However, FLL is loved by South Floridians because it is so easy and convienent. It maybe further from downtown Miami and South Beach than MIA, but it's not as congested, offers better frequencies to many O&D destinations (such as Atlanta, Hartford, Philadelphia, Baltimore, New York City), offers cheaper fares (flying America West on FLL-PHX is usually $100 less than flying them on MIA-PHX), and even some destinations that MIA does not have (Islip, Kansas City, Indianapolis, Biloxi, Cape Haiten, Sarasota). Were they do lack is international (Caribbean aside) and trans-cons (AA to LAX; HP to LAS/PHX).
Hoffa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 783 times:
Also, Miami is a bit "intimidating" for the typical American family vacationer while the FLL area beaches are a lot quieter and more wholesome. Miami is a lot more expensive and showy (more of a 'scene' there) while FLL offers the same quality beaches for cheaper prices without the fuss.
TWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 53 Reply 20, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 763 times:
I think you meant to say Miami was only 19 miles to the SOUTH of FLL, not the north. And I agree with everything else you said. Also, thousands of New Yorkers have condo's in Broward Country and South Florida, which is the major reason for the popularity of the route. In fact, I've heard the term that Broward County is a "suburb" of New York.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31115 posts, RR: 74 Reply 22, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 742 times:
STT757, dwarf? Not really. A lot of Knicks fans? You bet, because before the HEAT, the Knicks were Miami's "home team", but they in no way dwarf the HEAT fans. They are plentiful, though, there is no doubting that, but the rivalry has died down a little. Though that is a good example of the larger number of New Yorkers in Miami. Also watch a Jets-Dolphins game and there are a very large number of Jets fans. Miami has a huge NYC transplant population and NYC has quite a large Miami transplant population as well. And it's New Yorkers that give Miami its Northeast culture.