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Air France's 767s  
User currently offlineAlee From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 63 posts, RR: 0
Posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1146 times:

Why are they getting replaced so soon. The oldest 767 I think is about 10 yrs old, and AF received a couple in 93 which makes them 8 yrs old, pretty young for a plane. So what's the rush, are the 330s more economical?

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTR From UK - England, joined May 2001, 953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1042 times:

The decision to exchange the A310s and B767s with new A330s was made a long time ago when noone could see the end to growth in the airline industry. However I am not sure that the same decision had been made if today was the day of deciding!


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Cheers
Thomas


User currently offlineHoffa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1031 times:

I seem to remember something about cancelled 747's and AF having to owe money unless they bought something else off the Boeing line?

I wonder how they stack up against the A310's since these two aircraft are direct competitors.


User currently offlineAFa340-300E From France, joined May 1999, 2084 posts, RR: 26
Reply 3, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1009 times:

Hello Hoffa,

Actually they're phasing out the last A310 next January. Thus, there won't be A310s and A330s operated side by side for long.

Air France purchased 777s with the main it owed Boeing after the cancellations of 747-400Fs, 767-300ERs, 737-500s, ...

Air France wants to phase out the 767s because they build a too small fleet (currently 5 units, soon only 4 units) and moreover, their airplanes are powered by both CF6-80s and PW4000s. Therefore, they prefer to phase them out in favor of A330s which have a common crew rating with their A340s.

Best regards,
Alain Mengus


User currently offlineCF-CPI From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 1053 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 956 times:

The 767s were initially acquired through the UTA merger as I recall, the latter carrier having some on order. When AF ordered more of them circa '92 or '93 some of the commentary hinted that they thought the 767 outperformed the A310 in some respects. (I'm not starting a war, just quoting).

User currently offlineSas a340 From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 146 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 936 times:



When will the a330 arrive?


User currently offlineAFa340-300E From France, joined May 1999, 2084 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 932 times:

Hello,

Yes, Air France inherited two PW4060-powered 767-3Q8ERs from UTA and one 767-37EER from Aéromaritime (their charter subsidiary).

IIRC, Air France ordered their first CF6-80-powered 767-300ERs in April 1992, when they cancelled an order for four 747-400Fs in favor of three 767-300ERs.
In May 1995, that was converted to seven 767-300ERs (in addition to further Boeings). Eventually, all the orders Air France had for the 767s (and some 737-500s) were cancelled in favor of 10+10 777-200ERs in November 1996.

Actually, the A310s and the 767-300ERs were aimed at different missions: Africa/Middle-East for the for former (ABJ, DKR, NDJ, OUA, DXD, JED, ...) and thin long-haul routes for the latter (DEL, CCS, THR, ... and later PHL, BOS, IAH, ATL, CVG, ...).

The economics of the A310-300 vs. 767-300ER would be an interesting debate though.

Best regards,
Alain Mengus


User currently offlineAFa340-300E From France, joined May 1999, 2084 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 926 times:

Hello,

The first A330-200 should be delivered on 14 December.


Best regards,
Alain Mengus


User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 865 times:

The 764 would have made more sense for Air France, as it shares commonality with the 777, and Air France seems to have chosen the 777 family over the A340, as they have not ordered any new A340's, but continue to buy 777's.

User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3402 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 859 times:

when will all of the 767's be phased out. as of now air frace is still flying a 767 from cdg to philadelphia until november of next year.

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 10, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 858 times:

AF's 767 fleet is mismatched and too small for economical operations in an airline the size of AF....remember, AF also had 2 767-200ERs that it inherited through merger that are now with EL AL.

With the A332, AF can eventually replace both the A310 and B767, and the new aircraft have a common cockpit with the A340 which is also in AF's fleet.

AF has a different way of looking at things: they have flown the 767 and A310 side by side for many years, considering them different types for different missions, while most airlines considered them competitors and picked one or the other. More recently, AF is very happy to fly both the A343 and B772 (and maybe B773 in the future), considering them to be distinct and for different missions while just about everyone else considers them direct competition for the other.


User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3402 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 859 times:

when will all of the 767's be phased out. as of now air frace is still flying a 767 from cdg to philadelphia until november of next year.

User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 849 times:

Air France has ordered the 777-300ER.

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 847 times:

First, thanks cba, did not know that AF's 773 order was firm.

It is my understanding that the A310 aircraft will go first, followed by the 767s, with both types being out of the fleet in about 18 months time, however, with all that is going on in the (airline) world, that could have changed.


User currently offlineAirCanadaMan From Canada, joined Feb 2000, 465 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 841 times:

http://justplanes.net/images/welcome608.jpg

The first AF A330, for those who are interested.


User currently offlineEGFF From UK - Wales, joined Sep 2001, 2201 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 830 times:

Bring in the A330's !!!!!
EGFF  Smile/happy/getting dizzy



All together or not at all
User currently offlineAFa340-300E From France, joined May 1999, 2084 posts, RR: 26
Reply 16, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 776 times:

Hello Dutchjet,

Indeed, the last A310s will be retired next January, whereas the 767s will remain for some time.


Regarding the two 767-300ERs (F-GHGE and GD), they were briefly operated on CDG-RUN (Réunion island, Indian Ocean) where no 747-100 could do it non-stop both ways during the winter months, and on two weekly CDG-JFK flights. They were quickly withdrawn and leased to Balkan before being sold to El Al.



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Best regards,
Alain Mengus


User currently offlineContinentalEWR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3762 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 761 times:

I flew the AF 767-300 from BOS to CDG and back a year ago and it was nowhere near as nice as the 777 and even the A340's in their fleet. The cabin carpets were worn, the walls scratched up with luggage marks, and the service basic and no more. By contrast, I flew the AF 777 to Paris and back a few months later from JFK and found the service to be very good and quite attentive in coach. AF has really turned itself around. I was quite pleased.

ContinentalEWR


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