Azjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3641 posts, RR: 29 Reply 3, posted (12 years 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1745 times:
This has nothing to do with boeing or airbus or any manufacturer. I understand that this is a forum for discussion. But what balls me up is when there is a factual news report released... such as this and then people going off freestyle such as yourself ensinuating that the 717 order is to be canceled! It boggles my mind that one can mention a factual news report, but then turns it into some crazy rumor.
Again, it never mentioned that Midwest Express was going to cancel their order... it mention that they are evaluating their options. That's all... take it for face value and discuss that.
Azjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3641 posts, RR: 29 Reply 7, posted (12 years 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1717 times:
If it really must be known... I am a fan of jobs, freedom, intelligence, little government control, capitalism, and the freedom for a business to do what they want for their best intrest regardless of what the experts on airliners.net believe. Among many others of course.
I love airbus, boeing, MD, Bae Systems etc... I love them all. They all have their positives and negatives that they provide to the industry. I think airlines that utilize the best of all the worlds (the airline manufacturer) are the best business savvy companies.
Would you really want some of the yahoos here to have your personal information? Didn't think so Daryl.
Boeingfan From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 385 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (12 years 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1707 times:
AA may return some of the new 717's aquired through the TW merger. Next year they can start returning them to the leasor at some specified return rate (one every two months or something like that?)
Watch for the 717's to leave the new AA fleet. They most likely do not want to be caught with them if Boeing terminates the Long Beach assembly line. As they have learned with the Fokker 100's. (Spares and maintenance costs for an out of production aircraft.)
I hope the 717 gets a big order, and the line can stay open. But it is doubtful.
Flying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4137 posts, RR: 38 Reply 10, posted (12 years 5 days ago) and read 1667 times:
From what I´ve heard AA will return its B717s as soon as possible, starting Oct 02. There is the possibility that they go to MidWest, however I doubt this. YX has asked for a total of 50 B717, Boeing could only provide a max of 30 ex-AA frames once the line is shut down (assuming that only the existing orders will be completed but no other ones). To underline the YX-situation, here is a good article:
Midwest Express keep jet options open
SEATTLE, Dec 5 (Reuters) - With its order for 20 Boeing Co. (NYSE:BA - news) jets in question, Midwest Express Airlines (NYSE:MEH - news) on Wednesday said it was looking at other options, including taking aircraft from European planemaker Airbus SAS [ARBU.UL].
Chicago-based Boeing could decide as early as this month to shut down its slow-selling 717 jet line, leaving Midwest Express to look elsewhere for the 20 aircraft it had ordered for delivery from 2003 to 2008, plus options for 30 more.
``We are looking at what all of our options are should the (717) program be canceled. It's kind of in Boeing's court to make clear what the heck they are going to do,'' Midwest Express Treasurer Dennis O'Reilly told Reuters by telephone.
Milwaukee-based Midwest Express, which would likely lease the 717s from Boeing's financing arm, Boeing Capital Corp., could switch from the 106-seat 717 to the 107-seat A318, which Airbus is readying for initial deliveries.
``The A318 is certainly an alternative for us and the (100-seat) 928JET from Fairchild Dornier is a possibility, or we could acquire used airplanes,'' O'Reilly said, citing the slightly larger MD-80 as one option.
Midwest Express' sister regional carrier, Skyway Airlines, already operates eight 32-seat 328JETs and has more on order. The mainline carrier also operates aging DC-9s, which the 717 was designed to replace.
Boeing lists a backlog of just 53 717 orders, which could keep the Long Beach, California, 717 plant running into 2003, but not much further without additional orders. Curiously, Boeing has not posted the Midwest Express order on its Web site.
Midwest Express officials have talked with Boeing by phone, but currently no meetings are scheduled to discuss the 717, O'Reilly said.
A popular rumor has AMR Corp. (NYSE:AMR - news) returning 20 717s ordered by TWA, which AMR bought earlier this year, to Boeing, which could then supply them on lease to Midwest Express.
``You never know. That certainly is a possibility. But until the Boeing Company shows its hand more clearly, we are going to move ahead according to our plan,'' O'Reilly said.
O'Reilly declined to discuss details of the 717 contract with Boeing, though he noted it included language that would require Boeing to pay financial penalties or help provide alternative equipment if it cancels the 717.
``Certainly there are alternatives that exist,'' O'Reilly said. ``We would think that talking to other manufacturers now would work in our favor, given the nature of the industry today.''
Another rumour I´ve heard is that some of the AA B717s have already been sold to Impulse, however no confirmation on this.
The A318 IS an option, however "only" about 25,000 llbs heavier than the 95-110 928JET from Fairchild-Dornier which has about the same range, the same capacity and a better fuel burn plus a lower aquisition price (at least 3 millions US-$ below the B717). And it has a smaller brother , the 70-80 seat 728JET, thus could provide YX with some flexibility in capacity management. A potential 120/125-seater called X28JET is in the pipeline and could be decided on as early as 4Q2002.
Heavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (12 years 5 days ago) and read 1654 times:
Sounds like Boeing needs to balls up and make a decision about the 717. Problem is, if they cancel it, airlines will simply go "fine thanks." and give their money to Airbus, Fairchild, Embraer, Canadair...all who have competing product lines.
I think Boeing jets are great products, but it saddens me that this corporation hasn't learned dick in the last few years about how it can never again dictate terms to the market as it did from the 50s through the 80s.