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LH-News: Longhaul Schedule Summer 2002  
User currently offlineD-AIFB From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 121 posts, RR: 0
Posted (14 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2816 times:

LH is currently updating the different CRS and their Infoflyway (www.lufthansa.de, timetable section) with the first version of the new summer timetable 2002. Actually it´s no real surprise, they cut slightly capacity in different markets (USA, GRU, SIN) and add some flights to other destinations (NRT, HKG, PVG).

The shorthaul schedule has also been updated. But LH usually makes another major adjustment in January or February each year for the summer schedule. So it´s too early to say sth. about this topic.

Here are some changes (only on longhaul flights) i noticed. Of course, there´s no official statement yet. Expect some more changes within the next months, depending on the improvement or not-improvement of the pre-booking situation. But the following longhaul network should be the framework for next summer.

changes compared with last year in ()

Berlin TXL
no longhaul service anymore; as expected the 6 weekly A343 IAD flights won´t resume in summer.

Duesseldorf DUS
no longhaul service anymore; daily A343 EWR serivce won´t resume; that´s probably the main reason, why UA moved their ORD flight to IAD, in order to keep at least one flight to the east coast. Perhaps they´ll get another LH-flight, but i highly doubt this.

Munich MUC
slightly reduced capacity, probably no 744 anymore next summer, EWR service will move to JFK, LAX will move to FRA again, new PVG and NRT service, no signs of BOS and MIA so far, GRU and SIN remain suspended

JFK 343 15:20 daily (last summer to EWR)
ORD 343 11:15 daily
SFO 343 15:30 daily (last summer 744)
HKG 343 20:50 daily (last summer only 3 weekly)
PVG 343 20:50 daily ex Mo,Th *NEW*starts March 15th
NRT 343 15:30 daily ex We *New*starts April 18th
TLV 343 15:05 3 weekly
(JNB 343 20:40 3werkly only until mid April, expected resume in fall)
LAX moved as 2nd daily to FRA again
GRU suspended (3 weekly)
SIN suspended (3 weekly)
MIA? - i still hope for it
BOS? - i don´t expect it this summer, my bet is on 2003

AC will return in April with a daily service YYZ. UA will upgrade its IAD run with B777.

By the way, the new 343 MUC-JNB service is a bestseller for LH. In only 2 weeks (!) Lufthansa was able to sell the three weekly flights for 2 months! Therefore additional three weekly flights will be added as of this weekend until end of March, so MUC-JNB will be served six times a week.

A reason for the LAX flight moving back to FRA, might be slot securing there in order to prevent other airlines from grabbing unused slots in FRA, as LH has cancelled some flights throughout the day. I expect the LAX service to be back in MUC in 2003 (then perhaps as an additional third daily A343 service).

MUC could be happy with the above schedule. I guess the next major expansion phase (to both, longhaul and shorthaul destinations) will take place in spring 2003, when the new Star Alliance Terminal 2 will open.

Frankfurt FRA
EWR 744 13:20 daily (last summer: 742)
JFK 343 10:45 daily (last summer: 742)
JFK 343 14:10 daily (last summer: 19:30 departure)
JFK 744 17:15 daily (last summer:742)
BOS 343 11:10 daily (742)
BOS 343 17:40 daily
IAD 343 10:45 daily (from 5 weekly last summer)
IAD 744 13:10 daily
PHL 343 13:45 daily
ORD 744 10:05 daily (742)
ORD 343 17:10 daily
MIA 744 10:10 daily (742)
ATL 342 10:50 daily (343)
DEN 343 13:05 daily
DFW 343 09:50 daily
LAX 744 10:15 daily
LAX 744 13:30 daily (last summer ex MUC)
IAH 343 10:55 daily
PHX 343 10:25 Mo, We, Sa (daily last summer)
SFO 744 10:00 daily
DTW 343 13:20 daily (744)
YYZ 744 17:10 daily
YVR 343 13:05 daily (742)
MEX 744 13:40 daily
GRU 343 22:30 daily
CCS 343 13:05 three weekly
EZE-SCL 744 22:20 daily (6 weekly)
GIG cancelled (343; 3 weekly)
BOG cancelled (343; 3 weekly)
LIM cancelled (343; 3 weekly)

NRT 744 13:45 daily
NRT 3 weekly LH714 moved to MUC now with 6 weekly flights
KIX 343 13:25 daily (744)
NGO 343 13:55 3 weekly (down from 5 weekly)
SEL 744 17:55 daily
HKG 744 17:40 daily
PVG 744 17:35 daily (6 weekly)
PEK 744 17:25 daily
DEL 744 13:50 daily
BOM 744 13:35 daily (5 weekly; 742)
MAA 744 10:40 3 weekly
BLR 343 11:15 3 weekly (inaugurated last September)
SIN-CGK 744 22:10 daily
BKK-MNL 744 22:20 daily
BKK 744 22:30 1 weekly
BKK-SGN 744 22:30 2 weekly
(last year: 5 weekly nonstop MNL, daily nonstop BKK with continuing service 2 weekly to SGN and 2 weekly to MNL)

Africa/Near East/other destinations
JNB-CPT 744 22:20 daily
ABJ cancelled (342, 2 weekly)
LOS-ACC 744 11:40 4 weekly (343)
CAI-ADD 343 10:20 4 weekly
CAI-KRT 343 10:20 3 weekly
CAI-ASM 342 14:20 6 weekly (5 weekly)
CAI 342 14:20 1 weekly
TLV 343 10:15 daily
TLV 343 22:55 daily
SAH cancelled (343; continuing service from CAI, 3 weekly)
THR 343 20:30 daily (5 weekly)
TAS cancelled (343; 3 weekly)
BAK-ASB 342 11:15 3 weekly
ALA 342 ~11:00 5 weekly
RUH-JED 744 13:10 3 weekly (each with 343 3 weekly nonstop service)
KWI-DMM 342 13:05 3 weekly (DMM via RUH)
DXB-MCT 342 13:30 3 weekly (MCT via KWI)
DXB-AUH 342 13:30 4 weekly (daily)

Short summary
LH will slightly cut (longhaul)capacity next summer:
TXL and, as it looks like at the moment, also DUS will be without LH-longhaul service next year.
MUC will get 42 weekly 343-only longhauls (TLV included), compared with 40 last summer (but with 14 744). In available longhaul seats, MUC will be down about 10-12%. If MUC would receive another daily 343 service (perhaps the long awaited MIA flight), we would be back to last summers capacity.
FRA will also lose some capacity mainly due to the retirement of 8 B742 (about 6-8% decrease in longhaul seats).

Please note, the above information is subject to change, of course. And it is not based on an official statment of LH. Please don´t claim this to be a complete list, i might have forgotten some (longhaul)destinations. As we all know LH very well, some more changes during the coming months are very likely - still more than three months to go til the new summer schedule starts.

34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently offlineLH738 From Germany, joined Nov 2000, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (14 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2540 times:

D-AIFB, great job. Thanks for sharing the info.

User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4533 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (14 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2524 times:

It is nice to see that us EWR based individuals will be able to see a LH 747-400. Although I am not an Airbus fan, I kinda liked it when LH's 2 A340-300s and 1 747-200 were all on the ground together here in EWR.

"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineB737-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (14 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2521 times:

Reall great job you did there. Thanks !
Very glad to see LH's MUC-JNB service to be going so well.

So unfortunately again we can say Berlin-USA service failed terribly !


User currently offlineD-AIFB From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 121 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (14 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2417 times:

Thanks a lot!

It´s a pleasure for me to provide you with some informations on LH.

Yes, transatlantic flights ex TXL failed again. Therefore i don´t see another chance for Berlin-USA flights in the coming years. First of all, DUS should see at least one more service again, when demand is back to normal and growing again, probably in one / one and a half year from now. Perhaps STR (see rumours about UA being interested in STR) or HAM can attract another airline for the US market?

User currently offlineEwrffvs From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (14 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2409 times:

Very nice job indeed DAIFB! Appreciate all the good info.

I used to work for LH at EWR, so I feel a tinge of sadness knowing that the MUC and DUS birds are no more to be had there. Shame really, because EWR really is a more convenient airport for many in the NY metro area, especially now with the Airtrain link up and running.

User currently offline9V-SPF From Germany, joined Sep 2001, 1375 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (14 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2395 times:

LH will get two new 744´s early next year, won´t they?
So perhaps some routes will be upgraded again when those birds are ready to enter service.
By the way, congratulations for a great post, D-AIFB.


User currently offlineB737-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (14 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2391 times:

D-AIFB could you please tell me where you have heard the rumours about STR and United ?
That would be so cool to have UA here but I doubt it with their current financiel situation.
I was always hoping for a CO 757 or 762 but we'll see. Delta is doing good here.


User currently offlineFlyguy1 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1747 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (14 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2344 times:

So, does this mean LH wil have 4 daily pax flights into JFK in summer 2002?

727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 34347 posts, RR: 70
Reply 9, posted (14 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2328 times:

Thanks for the info D-AIFB. Still hoping for MIA-MUC. I think one reason nothing is known yet is because they still might be waiting to hear Lauda/Austrians decision on the MIA-MUC situation. Loads on MIA-FRA have been good. Tomorrow's flight from FRA is sold out in 1st and Biz (some Y still left).

User currently offlineJohnnybgoode From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 2187 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (14 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2316 times:

well, if there´s currently no market for TXL-usa then, imho, i don´t see where there could be a chance for STR- or HAM-usa services, except for charter flights.

that´s rather strange regarding the MUC-LAX service.
to my knowledge, this service was very succesful and really seems strange why they´re re-allocating it to FRA again. the slot securing thing sounds very likely, though.

afaik, LH is the only airline operating direct flights between LAX and FRA, is this correct?
so maybe with just one daily FRA-LAX was underserved?
i´ve always been waiting for UA to commence a LAX-FRA service, together with LH providing two dailies to FRA and one daily to MUC. seems like i´ve got wait a little long for that to happen...

additionally, it seems odd that the MUC-SIN is not working. given the fact the SIN is SQ´s hub and serves as transit point for many points beyond SIN i´m curious why this service is being dropped.

and then, i do understand that there are destinations such as JNB to which demand is higher in winter time(northern winter), however, if LH serves MUC-JNB almost daily this winter it seems odd to me there´s no service in summer.
i know they must re-allocate some aircraft which were withdrawn from some US-services and putting them on the JNB run seems the right thing, but if it´s so popular why don´t they sustain it in summer (of course, if aircraft are available)?

yes, LH will receive two additional 747-400s, one this December and the next one in March, or both in December, i´m not sure.


If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (14 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2311 times:


I see in your post that you mention that the daily SEL flight is operated by a 747-400. It used to be a A340-300. Did they recently change equipment on this route, or is the equipment still a A340-300 and will the 747-400 only start flying this route from next summer?


User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 25330 posts, RR: 54
Reply 12, posted (14 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2308 times:

Any news of Lufthansa Short-haul????? I hear NCL-DUS is going to a CRJ-700 but when...???  Confused

When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineB737-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (14 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2308 times:

Daniel, I also can't really imagine another US airline to come to STR especially not at this time.
But I don't think you can compare TXL with STR.
The Delta flight is doing pretty good as I said before and when DL had it's second daily until last year on the JFK run it was also around 75 % which was ok.
This should prove that there's demand to the US out of STR.
Service out of TXL has never really worked out during the last couple of years. So that's another story in my opinion. Don't know about HAM though.


User currently offlineLufthansausa From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 188 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (14 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2307 times:

What a shame that EWR will be losing its MUC flights, I've taken that flight and will miss it.

User currently offlineSkystar From Australia, joined Jan 2000, 1363 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (14 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2273 times:

Why is it that Berlin flights don't work? Isn't Berlin the largest city?

You'll have to forgive me, I'm an "Ausländer"  Smile



User currently offlineHUYfan From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 1420 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (14 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2269 times:

i suspect that the Berlin flights have not worked because the wrong airline, equipment and destination has been chosen. I appreciate the political relevance of a link with IAD, but, the A340 is too big. Surely a CO 762 to EWR or a UA 762 to ORD would be more appropriate.

User currently offlineSdate747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 272 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (14 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2256 times:

That's one less A340 serving IAD
I think the only A340 left now is Air France
Sabena operates a 767, Austrian operates a 330 so does BMI. Spanair has an A330 also? Also, no US Airways international flights. And Northwest and US, the only other domestic carriers out of IAD operate McDonell Douglas and Boeing aircrafts.
IAD needs more Airbus!

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 34347 posts, RR: 70
Reply 18, posted (14 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2255 times:

Sdate, Sabena is dead, Austrian uses A340s (I don't think have A330s), and Spanair used 767s, but they no longer fly to IAD.

User currently offlineSailorOrion From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 2058 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (14 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2237 times:

Having a short look at the above schedule, I'd think it is highly unlikly that anymore longhaul flights are being added.

For the above schedule, LH needs more or less every longhaul plane they have in the fleet except maybe one A342. All the other planes will have air times of at least 16 hours a day, otherwise they LH couldnt fly that schedule with the relatively small number of planes. So I also dont expect a major increase in longhaul flights unless the A346 arrives or LH decided to put the B742s back into service. The problem with TXL and DUS flights is also a logistical one. The planes flew MUC-EWR-DUS-EWR-MUC and FRA-IAD-TXL-IAD-FRA since neither DUS or TXL had A340s based. However, if you have a techincal problem with one of those planes, your entire schedule may get mixed up for 2, maybe even days. No airline is happy with that.

If UA for example would fly IAD-TXL, they would not only be able to start with a smaller plane (B762), they also would operate out of a hub airport reducing the routing Problem mentioned above.


User currently offlineB737-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (14 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2230 times:

If UA, CO, DL flew one of the route it'd also be better because they only have 2 classes.
I don't know how well first was booked out of TXL but I assume it wasn't to full, was it ? Anyone knows about that one ?
But 2 classes should work out better on flights to destinations that aren't any kind of hub.


User currently offlineAFa340-300E From France, joined May 1999, 2084 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (14 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2226 times:


Anyone would have some information about the following topic please?



Best regards,
Alain Mengus

User currently offlineJohnnybgoode From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 2187 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (14 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2213 times:

SailorOrion has a very good point about the aircraft schedulung (re TXL, DUS).

although it might be unlikely, i personally would not suppose that LH is not able to introduce additional longhaul flights.
it is right that LH is poised not have any 747-200s in service next summer, however, with two new 747-400s delivered soon (probably operating some routes formerly served by 742s) and with quite some A340s (LH has currently 33 A340-200/300s and five more to come) i´d say the might have the capacity to introduce new flights (perhaps MUC-BOS or MUC-MIA which was speculated by fellow board members).
well, even last summer LH had one and for some time even two A340s grounded due to lack of cockpit crews so i´d suggest they have sufficient aircraft capacity.

but who knows.
personally i´d be surprised if the next summer schedule would be increased even more massively.

the only thing i´d wish would be LH going for an additional, but smaller longhaul type, f.e. the A330-200? which was already rumoured.
like many of you have pointed out the A340 seems to be too big for the introduction of some routes (f.e. ex TXL).


If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 34347 posts, RR: 70
Reply 23, posted (14 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2187 times:

LH did "un-retire" a pair of 742s recently. 742s are currently running the YYZ-FRA route.

User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (14 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2171 times:

MAH do you know how many 742's they have unretired?Thanks,Alex

25 Post contains images D-AIFB : JFK/EWR Yes, LH will operate 4 daily flights into JFK next summer, while EWR is reduced from 3 to 1 daily, at least they currently plan to do so. A ga
26 D-AIFB : Forgot something: FRA-SEL is served with A343 during this winter. Will change to B744 in spring (summer schedule). Sorry.
27 Flyguy1 : DL will also reinstate MUC-JFK service, in 3/02.
28 Usairways85 : will they convert their 742's to freighters or just get rid of them?
29 D-AIFB : They´ll get rid of the 8 B742 (some in storage and some will be sold, they at least try to do so). LH Cargo even stored some B742 freighters recently
30 SailorOrion : LH Cargo is replacing their B742F by MD-11F, since the MDs are supposed to have way lower operational cost and also have a longer range at max payload
31 Airblue : LH seem to keep a strong long-haul network even if they cut TXL, DUS and some MUC flights, but we haven't to forget that LH was the European carrier w
32 Hkgspotter1 : No change for Hong Kong then, we already get a daily 744 and A343.
33 Post contains links Flying-Tiger : LH Cargo has stored one B742 to date, a second one will follow in January or February. If they are able to obtain some more MD-11F will be put into se
34 Johnnybgoode : MAH, it is correct that LH has currently deployed some 742s on its north american route network, YYZ in particular, however, it is LH´s current plan
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