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QF To Expand NZ Services.  
User currently offlineDalecary From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (14 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2652 times:

As reported in Bloomberg today. QF will up the anti in New Zealand on both domestic and International services and will possibly purchase new planes for it's expanded New Zealand operation.
Looks like they are about to put the real squeeze on Air New Zealand. I can't see a QF/NZ partnership being anything other than an eventual certainty.


Qantas Plans to Expand Services in N.Z. Early in 2002, Rivaling Air N.Z.
By Tina Morrison

Wellington, Dec. 19 (Bloomberg) -- Qantas Airways Ltd. Chief Executive Geoff Dixon said Australia's largest carrier plans to expand in New Zealand next year, competing head to head with ailing rival Air New Zealand Ltd.

``We regard New Zealand as a very major part of the Qantas network,'' Dixon said after meeting Finance Minister Michael Cullen and Transport Minister Mark Gosche. Qantas plans ``to have a much bigger domestic and international operation out of New Zealand'' early next year, he said.

Qantas is seeking to expand in New Zealand at a time when that country's government is attempting to rescue Air New Zealand after a failed expansion into Australia. Air New Zealand abandoned its Australian subsidiary in September. New Zealand services make up most Air New Zealand's revenue.

``When you have a weaker competitor you have got to make the best of that,'' said Pano Raftopoulos, who helps manage A$600 million ($309 million) at Challenger Profession Investment Management Ltd. ``It is obviously a negative for Air New Zealand.''

Cullen ruled out discussing Air New Zealand's finances at today's meeting, which was sought by Qantas amid speculation it wants to ally with its rival. Ownership of Air New Zealand wasn't discussed at the meeting. Qantas's relationship with the government was, Dixon said.

``We will be treated as equals and there will be a system whereby whatever information we give the government will be secure,'' Dixon said.

Unprofitable Business

Qantas loses money on its business in New Zealand, which it established when closely held Tasman Pacific, which had the Qantas franchise, failed. Recently Qantas announced plans for a discount service in Australia. It won't be offering that service in New Zealand, Dixon said.

Qantas plans to fly bigger aircraft in its home market, and move some of its Australian aircraft to New Zealand, Dixon said. It's also seeking board approval to get new aircraft for New Zealand, he said.

Air Pacific and Polynesian Airlines aircraft it currently uses in New Zealand will probably be replaced in the first quarter of 2002, he said.

Dixon told reporters Qantas wasn't seeking a stake in Air New Zealand, though he didn't rule out considering the option in the future.

``We always have felt that it's a very, very natural partnership but a lot of natural partnerships don't work and don't get done,'' he said, adding Qantas may have discussions with Air New Zealand after it appoints a permanent chief executive and board.

Air N.Z. Vote

Air New Zealand shareholders vote today on the government's proposal to buy NZ$885 million ($369 million) worth of shares at 27 New Zealand cents each and lend the airline NZ$300 million. The government may invest another NZ$150 million before June 30, 2003 and will own 82 percent of the airline.

``The major issue is whether Qantas does in fact end up taking an equity stake in Air New Zealand, which will allow them to share their cost base,'' said Rohan Walsh, who holds Qantas shares in the A$2 billion he helps manage at Invesco Asset Management.

Qantas shares fell 4 cents to A$3.67. Air New Zealand's unrestricted Class B shares rose 1 cent, or 3 percent, to 34 New Zealand cents.

44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently offlineKiwi dave From New Zealand, joined Aug 2000, 895 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (14 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2466 times:

Hope QF gets 73G and 738 to fly in NZ

User currently offlineAirNewZealand From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 2549 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (14 years 4 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2454 times:

agreed Kiwidave!! Or some airbusses!! We need some A320/A319 here!!


User currently offlineKiwi dave From New Zealand, joined Aug 2000, 895 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (14 years 4 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2433 times:

AirNewZealand as much as I want to see A319/320's QF won't order them as they placed an order for the 737-800's.

It would be nice to see A319's as well as A320's in New Zealand

User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (14 years 4 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2419 times:


You might one day if AN decides to go TT.

 Smile Smile Smile



User currently offlineKiwi dave From New Zealand, joined Aug 2000, 895 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (14 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2398 times:

Ansett flying trans Tasman routes that will no doubt be in a few years in the future.

User currently offlineAl From Australia, joined Jun 1999, 593 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (14 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2390 times:

Don't bet on it Kiwi Dave - wouldn't be surprised to see AN up and about again (TransTas) very soon, with any of three likely scenarios, and with NZ & N.Z. firmly in it's sights. NZ appears to be fast becoming a endangered species - sort of treading water with it's head barely above water, badly bleeding and surrounded by hungry sharks - those sharks are of course SQ, QF, DJ and AN. I'd be more worried particularly about SQ and to a lesser extent QF, but it's always the ones you least expect that will bite you the hardest.
I think I'll wait one more week for some more concrete information, but I think I'd be prepared to wager that AN will indeed be a thorn in NZ's side very soon.

User currently offlineJaseWGTN From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 828 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (14 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2382 times:

What were the loadings like on the AN service that used to be operated by an 743, SYD/AKL vv.

I beleive it was also a codeshare flight for AR as a feeder service onto the EZE flight from AKL

User currently offlineKiwi dave From New Zealand, joined Aug 2000, 895 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (14 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2371 times:

Why is QF seeking to expand it's NZ domestic services I thought that the free skies argeement between NZ and Australia meant that QF could fly as many services as it wants.

User currently offlineFreedomair737 From New Zealand, joined Oct 2001, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (14 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2360 times:

Does anyone know what new routes QF will be operating in NZ??....

User currently offlineAirNewZealand From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 2549 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (14 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2342 times:

I hope ROT!! I would like tot ake them to ROT!!

ROT= Rotorua!!


User currently offlineJaseWGTN From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 828 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (14 years 4 months 3 weeks ago) and read 2327 times:

They operate daily from ROT to CHC via codeshare with QO. Does that help AirNewZealand?

User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2302 times:


I tend to agree with Al on this.

Also, QF will be expanding to push NZ to the wall and give the NZ government no other choice but to have QF as a 'saviour'.



User currently offlineKiwi dave From New Zealand, joined Aug 2000, 895 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2299 times:

I hate to amit it but I also think that QANTAS will be Air New Zealand's saviour.

User currently offlineAl From Australia, joined Jun 1999, 593 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2289 times:

Maybe QF had wind of the following and went for the jugular early ??

"Executive director Roger France said the airline [NZ] was still facing very difficult trading conditions, with November figures particularly disappointing.

International passenger loads were down on projections, as was the airline's domestic yield. Although a decrease in fuel costs was helping, forecasts to the end of the year indicated that cost benefits might not be great enough to offset declines in passenger revenue."

International loads are low and that's understandable, but to drop domestic yield is a disaster. I also think the FF sector has a bearing on this - there is a lot of TransTas business traffic with a hefty number of Kiwi based pax flying internal segments in Oz. With AN currently on self suspension from Star, are the Star FF's deserting NZ domestically in N.Z. for QF as they can also use QF and get the points when travelling internally in Oz? What I'm getting at is the Star people can still earn in N.Z. on NZ, but when they come over here, they're getting diddly squat, so I'm presuming because they are using QF over here to get points, they are using them over there as well.
A serious question for the Kiwis as I'm not up to speed on the popularity or local Government power over there.
How long will the N.Z. public tolerate the drain on their taxes of keeping NZ alive if it's losing money hand over fist? How long before the next election, and is the balance of power "tight"? (i.e. - only a handful of seats) Is NZ likely to become a hot election issue and is the opposition a strong one, able to bring the cost of keeping NZ alive to the fore and an integral part of things? Is the opposition as opposed to a foreign carrier investing in NZ as is the Government?
Could NZ be cut loose if after 6 months of continued losses and public taxpayer funding, the outcry becomes too much of a hot potato for any Government?
Cheers n' Regards. Al.

User currently offlineJetkid From New Zealand, joined Jun 2001, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2275 times:

Hi Al,

In answer to some of your questions, It would seem that the Labour Government we have here is looking pretty good to win the next election at the moment, which is next November. Certainly I think most NZer's would agree the National party have a way to go to if they want to win the next one, still look at what happened in Australia this year so who knows. The National party would be the more traditional party to suggest the airlines shares are sold, (and indeed they have suggested this), although it was ironically the Labour party that sold the airline the first time round! It may become an election issue but I think it’s to soon to say for sure it will be.

The impression I get is that most NZer's don’t mind if the government puts money into Air NZ because the thought of not having a national airline is pretty scary and would have a huge impact on so many aspects of our lives. In saying that I think people expect them to get their act together and show they are making some progress towards getting themselves out of the mess they are in sooner rather than later.

In terms of passenger behavior I guess the company I work for is a good example of what’s happening. We spend over $3million PA in travel and were with QF NZ when it was Tasman Pacific, then we swapped to NZ when QF fell over. The staff loved NZ and when we were asked who we want to stay with NZ was the popular choice, for domestic travel within NZ at least (more flights, better service etc etc). The problem was that we do a lot of Trans-tasman and internal Oz travel (as well as global for a large number of staff) and Qantas came in with a ridiculously low bid. That and the fact that we can do all our NZ and Oz travel on the one airline, plus global travel with them and the OneWorld carriers sealed it. The only bonus for staff is that we get to claim FF points for our work travel, the trade off being if your like me the poor selection of QF flights within New Zealand is a real pain compared to NZ who have a much better product and frequency. That said the bonus points offer Qantas has been offering on New Zealand domestic sectors the last few months has meant every flight I do with them clocks up another 2000 points, or 4000 points for a days travel.

The end result is I travel on QF for work and NZ for personal travel, even if it does cost more than a QF service.

User currently offlineAerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 3042 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2266 times:

AI: You mean Ansett wasn't a thorn in Air NZ's side before (be calm MX5)???

I don't quite understand why it should be feared that another airline would want to invest in Air NZ. What's wrong with that? SQ, Qantas, whoever's the better partner will ultimately win any bid for a stake.

And exactly what makes you think Ansett is particularly interested in Trans Tasman ops in its own right? Surely the carrier will be occupied enough trying to survive domestically in Australia. It would be a pointless duplication and waste of resources for Ansett to do this. I predict a re-emergence of the codesharing with Air NZ.

And it must be some kind of breach of rules to be a member of the Star Alliance and enter a kind of debilitating competitive hoo-ha with another Star airline.
It would kinda defeat the purpose of being in an alliance in the first place.

User currently offlineAerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 3042 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2264 times:

Oh and one more thing.

It's highly unlikely Air NZ will be much of an issue at the next election. The opposition are about as effective as a dried prune at the moment and quite frankly, Bill English's declaration that National would sell Air NZ has hardly been well embraced. This is a time of upheaval and uncertainty and I think most people want some kind of stability in their lives. So the prospect of getting rid of Air NZ isn't particularly appealing. Yet.

User currently offlineKiwi dave From New Zealand, joined Aug 2000, 895 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2256 times:

I'm with Aerokiwi on the fact that Air New Zealand will not be an issue at the next election.

User currently offlineAl From Australia, joined Jun 1999, 593 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2239 times:

Many thanks for your well thought out and interesting reply to some of my questions. Interesting to see that the hypothesis of the Star FF's is correct in at least one case and could be of concern. At least your business travel plans may become a little easier if QF ramps up it's operations as announced.
I don't think there is anything wrong or to be feared about another airline investing in NZ, but the N.Z. Government certainly seems to think so !!
As far as my remarks re Ansett on TransTas, then you've missed the reference to "any one of three scenarios". There is a lot happening behind the scenes in Star and at Ansett. There is a definite possibility at this stage there will be two seperate Ansett's - the domestic version and the International version, both owned by different groups. It is no secret that NZ is "on the nose" for at least 3 of the 5 power players in the Star grouping. I'd be more worried about DJ starting TransTas than AN at the present time though. NZ *must* protect it's TransTas at all costs given those routes are it's only lifeblood - any protracted engagement with others will be devastating for NZ.

I'll take yours and Kiwi dave's opinion that NZ will not be an election issue, although I'd like you to clarify if you still believe that to be the case if NZ is still bleeding badly in a years time and gobbling up taxpayers money like there is no tomorrow. A year is a long time in Politics after all, let alone the airline game.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Cheers 'n Regards. Al.

User currently offlineAussie_ From Australia, joined Dec 2000, 1767 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2231 times:

What international routes might QF consider??? They already offer LAX daily, EZE and will begin flights to DFW from AKL. This of course in addition to the trans-tasman flights...

Might they consider flights in their own right to some Pacific destinations such as PPT (after pulling out a couple of years ago), Rarotonga, Noumea etc. NAN is already served via FJ. Maybe HNL. What I would expect though is a service to SIN from maybe both AKL and CHC to compete with NZ/SQ which could then feed through to Asia and Europe via the QF hub there.

User currently offlineAirNewZealand From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 2549 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2210 times:

PPT is served also by TN!!

Raro..noway...you ahve to get special rights from AirNZ to fly there as they are a major holder of the airport!

Noumea...hmmm, maybe

SIN...Nope!! SQ has this well rapped!!

Maybe MNL?? We donot have flights to there!!


User currently offlineKiwi dave From New Zealand, joined Aug 2000, 895 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2194 times:

maybe they will operate feeder services to key destinantions in their international network

User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2180 times:


Not to persecute my kiwi friends, however the management of NZ destroyed AN. Through ineptitude, jockying, and bad management.

They systematically destroyed by far the worlds most dynamic and best domestic / international carrier! Read the trip reports on AN and compare it to others.

Sadly this is no more. NZ is dead and buried as well, sadly for the staff.

Unfortunately for those of us in the Oceanic region, we will see the new dawn very shortly.



User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2178 times:

In that case I must be a dead man walking?

We sure don't feel dead and buried.

Mind you, I guess hearing this rot on a regular basis results in an immunity being developed.

25 Post contains images ZK-NBT : AKL or CHC or AKL and CHC to SIN could work out quite well considering that flying QF to Europe from NZ currently requires 2 stops except if you go vi
26 Aussie_ : The presence of a Virgin Blue aircraft in AKL today also fuels speculation of Virgin beginning trans-tasman in the near future.
27 AirNewZealand : Yes honolulu, But i donot think it will make much money right now. A source told me that HNL loas for NZ are pretty crap since we gave up AKL-HNL-LAX!
28 Aerokiwi : Wow MX5boy. Such profound insight. I dropped to my knees in awe. Really. I did. AI: I fully agree that if Air NZ bleeds in the long term, there will b
29 Mx5_boy : Aerokiwi, Profound insight? LOL Have a great xmas everyone! Regardless of varying opinion, I wish you all well over the holidays!! Cheers, mb
30 AirNewZealand : Thanks Mb...SAME to you Mate! Have a WASTED new year! Mike
31 Aerokiwi : By the way AirNewZealand (the user, not the airline), are you ever going to reveal that master plan that you kept ranting on about earlier this year?
32 AirNewZealand : LOL..I am Blushing!! hehehe.... It was just about a big massive SQ look alike Cabin that was in the making, and about how NZ was going to expand, with
33 Post contains images ZK-NBT : International destinations will be interesting from AKL and CHC, they should reintroduce AKL-CNS and start a AKL-PER flight I think, and look at AKL-A
34 Post contains images NZ767 : How about something totally new?? Auckland-Rio de Janeiro.............huge population area which could also feed into Varigs European network. Would p
35 KRP : ZK-NBT: NZ allready flies AKL PER 4 times a week - what more do you want?
36 TG992 : AND AKL-CNS once a week! lol
37 Post contains images ZK-NBT : Sorry guys I meant QF! Whats the point of NZ flying to CNS once a week anyway it's been like this for years! Without AN now they should offer more non
38 NZ767 : oops! And I meant NZ.
39 AirNewZealand : QF do fly to CNS from AKL....Every Friday mornin!! 0600 hours departs.... Or has this changed?? Mike
40 ZK-NBT : As far as i'm aware QF havn't flown CNS-AKL for a couple of years, I remember 5 or 6 years ago they had 2 747's a week and then 3 763's. I thought CNS
41 Kiwi dave : I remember a few years ago that QF operated a CHC-CNS service with 763.
42 AirNewZealand : It seems you are right....1999 it was stopped...oh how i am behind times! You now have to go via BNE!! Mike
43 Luftaom : QF have failed to realise that the NZ governments pockets are far deeper than theirs so any major war in NZ is pretty useless because in spite of the
44 Aerorobnz : The NZ government is not in good shape at all financially, however I do think Luftaom is correct, the Govt will cut back on essential services like He
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