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How Long Will NWA Keep Their DC9s?  
User currently offlineJetBlue320 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1915 times:

I Know this may have been discussed before, But I cannot find it in search. But does anyone know when NWA plans on retiring its last DC9. I have heard reports that their last one is going in 2008, and reports that they are waiting till 2020.

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7929 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1803 times:

In my personal opinion, I think NW will probably pick a replacement for their DC-9 fleet within 24 months.

It'll probably come down to a choice between the Boeing 717-200 (neé McDonnell-Douglas MD-95) and the Fairchild-Dornier 928JET. The Airbus A318 is not economical as a DC-9 replacement.

NW has to do it anyway, because despite the airline's heroic efforts to keep the planes in good condition, the planes are getting quite old, the fuel efficiency of the planes are poor, and the plane's engines are unable to meet increasing strict noise standards such as the upcoming ICAO Stage IV standard that will come into force by 2006.


User currently offlineBraniff727 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 686 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1776 times:

I think it's going to be sooner than a lot of people expect. My thinking is it's going to have to be soon as it will take some time to replace 170+ aircraft.

I have heard through the NWA FA Rumor Mill that they will be making a big announcement around Jan 07. Who knows, maybe it will be about the DC-9 replacement.

Then again it could just be a rumor...



Climbing
User currently offlineJetBlue320 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1765 times:

I Sure hope NWA Places a big order for the 717, It would be lovely


User currently offlineE7plnr From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 103 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1738 times:

The last word to officially come out of NW was that they have plans to fly the last DC-9's until 2015.

User currently offlineParra From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1717 times:

Ray Chuang
Why is the A318 not a suitable replacement?


User currently offlineBraniff727 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 686 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1713 times:

The A318 is more economical on longer haul routes as opposed to the current routes many of the DC-9's fly.


Climbing
User currently offlineJetBlue320 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1698 times:

I do like Airbus A320s, But Northwest needs to get the 717 to replace the DC9, and the A319/A320 to replace the 727-100/200 (Even though they do not have the -100 anymore) I would prefer to see a NWA 717, Rather than a NWA A318. Come on NWA, Make the good decision. and grab the 717, you will gain one more customer if you do.

User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4182 posts, RR: 37
Reply 8, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1693 times:

The DC-9 pilots like to say that they'll be around longer than the A320's.  Smile


I believe it will probably be the 717. Theres no real rumors circulating around.



Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlineJason Seiple From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1687 times:

Maybe I'm the anti-enthusiast, but I choose an airline based on where they fly and the price (and frequent flyer program is a criteria when there are options on a trip) rather than the equipment. I don't usually look at the equipment until I've purchased the ticket.

User currently offlineJetBlue320 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1662 times:

Jason, Well don't that beat the whole purpose of the post  Yeah sure  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

User currently offlineDc10guy From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 2685 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1648 times:

The A318 would be the perfect replacement for NW's DC-9's. But I'm sure they will choose with there wallet...and Boeing will let them 717's go for cheap...


Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
User currently offlineJason Seiple From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1651 times:

The A318 may be a good replacement on the basis of capacity, but it is not meant for short range routes. The B717 is more economical for shorter routes... A318 was made for longer thin routes. NW's DC-9's tend to fly short range flights like MSP-FSD or MSP-STL. The B717 is better suited for this kind of flying. However, the A318 would be more cost effective on the basis of flight crew cross-training and fleet commonality. I'm sure that Northwest for quite some time has been running analysis on the costs of operating any replacement for the DC-9 on a long range plan.

User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5638 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1620 times:

In fact, both the A318 and the B737-600 are bad replacements for DC-9s. They are designed for longer range flights, while the DC-9 and 717 are rugged, 12 flights per day workhorses.

Aloha already told us that the NG 737 is NOT capable of doing what the 732s were... namely, interisland ops...

So that leaves us with, pretty much, the 717 and the RJs.

Remember, Northwest kinda surprised us with their DC-10 replacements. Who would have predicted replacing a DC-10 with a 757? An A330, sure, but a 757? OOoooooooookay.

I also REALLY hope they go for the 717, it's my favorite craft.

Randy


User currently offlineILUV767 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3141 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1608 times:

Has any one thought that they might go for more Regional Jets and have Airlink fly the old DC9 routes?

I L U V 7 6 7


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 15, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1599 times:

I agree that the decision will be made sooner rather than later. With 150+ DC-9's to replace, this will take 7-8 years assuming 24 deliveries/year.

I also agree that the A318 is too heavy for the short range role of the NW DC-9. The only logical choice appears to be the 717. With a requirement for 150+ aircraft, commonality with the A319/320 fleet becomes a non-issue.

I'm sure that Boeing has been making a strong case for the 717 to NW for some time. Boeing's recent announcement to keep the 717 line open reasonably assumes some potential large orders are in the pipe.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineJetBlue320 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1570 times:

I Would love to see a NWA 717. I would be one of the first customers.

User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7929 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1560 times:

I think NW will lean towards getting the 717-200.

The reasons are twofold: 1) it'll meet tomorrow's tough environmental standards for noise, exhaust emissions and better fuel efficiency, and 2) Boeing can guarantee fairly fast delivery of the planes.

NW can't wait till early 2004 to get the A318 or 2005 to get the 928JET.


User currently offlineHlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1543 times:

They won't go for more regional jets to take over DC-9 routes without upsetting the Pilots union

User currently offlineHkg_clk From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 999 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1536 times:

I think they just completely redid the interiors of the DC9s to 717 standards. That must have been a huge job to replace the whole interior. So my guess it that they will keep them flying for some time yet.


See my homepage for a comprehensive guide to spotting and photography at HKG
User currently offlineAC340 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 337 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1527 times:

I think you have to consider other factors, like fleet commonality before deciding that the A318 wouldn't be a good replacement for the DC-9. Remember, the A318 shares commonality with NW's already large fleet of A320-family a/c. In the long-run, it may be cheaper to fly the short haul, 100 seat flights with A318, based solely on the cost of labour. Once the old DC-9 pilots have been rated on the A320, they are good for the whole family. The 717 does not share commonality with anything in NW fleet, plus it appears that NW is making a move towards Airbus plans.

I would be surprised if they went with something other than the A318, even if they aren't specifically designed to fit the role NW needs them for.


User currently offlineNorthwest_guy From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 217 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1527 times:

I'm not sure what Northwest will replace the DC-9 with but hopefully they will make an announcement as to what will replace them soon. I dont dislike the DC-9 but I think that its time for them to be replaced for economical reasons.

User currently offlineJetBlue320 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1503 times:

I believe NW will go for the 717. It is the Aircraft that can withstand 12 or 13 50 minute flights a day, while the A318, and 737 ared designed and outfitted for routes 2.5 hours or more. They may get the A318 to replace aging A320 Aircraft, but the 717 would be the best choice, because it would be easier to train DC9 pilots on.

User currently offlineJason Seiple From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1488 times:

Replacing older A320's with A318's would be a significant reduction in capacity. The routes A320's are used on typically can support that kind of load. On the range issue, yes, the A318 could replace A320's, but capacity wise.... there would be few routes they could do it on without increasing frequency.

User currently offlineScottb From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6578 posts, RR: 32
Reply 24, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1456 times:

The Stage IV restrictions which are proposed to become effective on January 1, 2006 at present only apply to newly certificated aircraft. It's likely that the phase-in process of the new standards for existing aircraft will take considerably longer - especially in the United States, where the FAA will mull the economic effects of the new standards. It's likely that noise considerations will not ground the DC-9's until 2015.

As for Northwest; the great thing for them about the DC-9's is that they are completely paid-for. No depreciation cost, leasing costs, etc. With the recent refurbishings, they don't look quite so obviously 20-35 years old. They perform their missions well, and NWA's mechanics manage to keep them quite reliable.

If Northwest can afford to have a separate fleet of DC-9's (apart from the Airbuses), they can probably afford to have a fleet of 717's. If they were to order 100-150 aircraft, they'd probably achieve the necessary economies of scale to justify an additional fleet.


25 Timmsp : I'd like to see them go for the 717 from a purely spotter's perspective. Add more variety to the ramp at MSP. The A3XX's look too much alike for my ta
26 Usairways85 : dang, about 90% of the nwa flights into philadelphia are dc-9's, i am kinda looking for something else now to see rather than the dc-9 all the time.
27 XFSUgimpLB41X : I was talking with my dad tonight about it over dinner, since more than likely ill be going to NW too since i know a bunch of people there... Said the
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