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What Is Replacing Air Canada's DC-9 Fleet?  
User currently offlineGmonney From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2159 posts, RR: 20
Posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2751 times:

I was just wondering what aircraft was replacing the diminishing DC-9 Fleet. It shows that they only have 7 left in action. Is the A319 stepping in and offering more capacity but less frequency? Or are they using dash-8's? OR The CRJ is replacing with less capacity?

Is AC's long term goal STILL to keep the larger aircraft and offer more capacity with less flights?

Can anyone predict the fleet for AC in the future....what to expect...example....no 744, just A340's...300's, 500's or 600's. How about the "Work-Horse" for them...the 767, they have some 200's that must be getting old....what will replace them? The A330 is much bigger....unless they get the 200...?? Don't think so, but what will be the aircraft that services the popular domestic routes?

Thanks for the help in advance,

Grant




Drive it like you stole it!
20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineC-GRYK From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 751 posts, RR: 36
Reply 1, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2654 times:

Grant,
The new 320 family deliveries are stepping in for the 737/DC-9 fleet but there isn't an exact replacement. I'd suspect AC is happily cutting down on frequencies with the retirement of those aircraft, it's an easy way to cut capacity (there is over capacity in the Canadian market these days) without parking leased or new aircraft like some airlines are doing.

I believe every airline's long term goal is more frequency because that is what the high price pax want.

I don't like predicting at all, but I guess I'll have a go...

A318/319/320/321 will be mainline shorthaul

CRJ-100/700/900 (I don't think 700's are currently allowed at AC or something like that, maybe someone else on the forum can give us an answer).

If the CRJ-700/900's aren't allowed, I'd expect Dash 8-400's although I don't know if those are allowed, I think aircraft over 55 seats have to be operated by AC, again i'm not so sure.

767-200/300 will be the backbone of the Atlantic/high density domestic fleet

330 will supplement 767's on Atlantic runs on higher capacity routes, along with the very high density domestics

340 will be deployed on the longer Atlantic runs like they currently are and the Pacific.

747, dunno what to make of it, the -433M's will be tough to sell, although the -475's shouldn't be in a few years, but I think they will be sticking to the routes they are on now.

That's it!

Jeremy



Think before you type!
User currently offlineGmonney From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2159 posts, RR: 20
Reply 2, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2630 times:

Thanks....its always good to get everyones opinion...different people have different ideas...I just hope that they make the right choices and build a strong airline again,

Grant



Drive it like you stole it!
User currently offlineAC320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2612 times:

They way I see things shaping up:

Regional:

B1900D
Dash8-100/300/400
CRJ-200/700/900

Those will round out the regional fleet. Although I have some doubts of the CRJ-900, the -700 is much more likely to make an appearance in the fleet. Still, It's a tough call considering the seat issue C-GRYK mentioned. We'll have to wait and see.

A318/319/320/321- The 'buses will continue to serve as the backbone of AC's fleet, with the A318's coming in as possible DC-9 replacements along with those CRJ-900's (if they're ordered).

767-200/300ER's- these will stay for a while. If Airbus moves ahead with an all new 767 competitor after the A380 project, expect a large order for those to replace the 767's. Shouldn't be too hard a project for Airbus to accomplish. Perhaps we'll see AC as the launch customer for these in the future.

A330-300- as mentioned to supplement the Atlantic runs, and high density local flights.

A340-500/600- I can see the newer -500's eventually replacing the older -300 series. The A340 fleet will be perfect for AC's long-range services.

B747-400's- Say goodbye, AC will dump them eventually for sake of expanding the A340 fleet.

A possibility: AC and the A380? Doubtful, they really don't need that much capacity. Still its perfectly possible that the airline may decide to order a A380 variant if they feel the need for that capacity, most likely a smaller version of the initial design. We should have a clear picture of AC's plan regarding 747/A380 size fleet requirements within 5 years or less.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2591 times:

The active DC-9 fleet is not down to just 6 aircraft from 17 recently. All current/recent DC-9 routes are being handed over to the 732 fleet largely (YYZ-YQT, YQB, PHL) while many 732 routes are bumping up to the A319 (the A319 will add MSY, PHL, YQB, YQT).

The 732 fleet is still quite young and will probably last another 3-5 years. Plenty of time for AC to analyze the 717, A318, CRJ-700/900.

My heart is with the 717. Ya know, I've been watching AC DC-9's at YYZ since my parents bought a house near YYZ in 1968 (when I was 4 yo). I'll miss em.

Neil



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineVafi88 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2586 times:

Maybe the A319 or A320 or some 737s or something like that I don't expect them to get Dash8 or something.


I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
User currently offlineYow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2582 times:

For anyone in Ottawa the last AC DC-9 departure is this Saturday at 1500. YOW-YYZ.  Sad Farewell to a great airplane that served AC for 35 years.

User currently offlineBWIA330 From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 919 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2575 times:

A321's are replacing them.

Regards,

BWIA330


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 8, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2554 times:

Well, BWIA330 indirectly you are correct!

The A321's are bumping A320's which replace A319's which bump 732's which are taking over the DC-9 routes.

Whew





Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineJU101 From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 832 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2544 times:

DC9s served Air Canada well.

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Pierre Lacombe



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Felix Sieder


It would be nice if Air Canada eventually decided to return the DC9 to its original 80s livery, and retire one at the aviation compound at YOW. Recalling my stay in Ottawa, AC DC9s were the absolute foundation of the airport until two years ago.

As for its replacement; there is no direct replacement in its current fleet, without making flight alterations. However its most logical that Air Canada's regional fleet are composed of A320 family aircraft and CRJs.

When talking about long-range aircraft: this is were things get confusing. It doesnt make financial sense to diversify aircraft as much as AC does. If AC aleady operates B767-300/200s and B747s, why do they need A340s and A330s? Anyhow, they should pay off their debt before evening dreaming of the A380!


User currently offlineGmonney From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2159 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2511 times:

So that means there will be another Airbus....

Will it be like the A310 to Compete with the 767?

Will they call it the A311 or move to a A350,60,70or90?

Thanks,

Grant



Drive it like you stole it!
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 11, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2497 times:

Actually Grant both Boeing and AI are 'concerned' about the slow sales of their small widebodies (767, A300, A310, A332)....it suggests on one hand that airlines are waiting for a new product completely and on the other hand, that demand is light for this segment. However, there are no plans by A or B to develop a 200-250 seat widebody this decade.

Boeing continues to build the 762/763/764 with only the 763 selling reasonably well. AI continues to build the A300/A310/A332. The A300F and A332 are sellign well.

AC will not buy one of these AI products anytime soon. They just added just new 763's this year.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineGmonney From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2159 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2490 times:

Thanks Neil....I know that AC is in no position to aquire C3's A332's, but would they have considered it if they were in a better position?

Thanks

Grant



Drive it like you stole it!
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 13, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2489 times:

The current AC 333's have RR engines. The ex-C3 332's have GE engines so I'm sure AC is not interested. If AC ever adds some 332's (which is reasonable later this decade to replace the oldest 763's perhaps), they'll want RR 332's for commonality.

I think the ex-C3 332's will be out of service for a while.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2482 times:

How abut returning a DC-9 to it's ORIGINAL livery with the black nose, and sending it to a museum. You have to give that airplane credit, it has served AC very well paying for itself many many times over.


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineGmonney From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2159 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2484 times:

See thats the thing....I have no clue on what engines are on what aircraft....I know some of the C3 757's have the RR's the ex royal ones....

What about TS...do they have GE engines??? I don't know and Neil....if there is a site where it will inform me on what engines they have......wait there is one, Bill Harms site should tell me the engines but how do you figure out what they are...??

Both AC and TS have trent772-B-60? Are these RR's???

SSV have the PW's, i'm ok with that.

C3 has CF6-80E1A4...???? Are these the GE ones you are talking about?

So the way it looks, on one wants these things...too bad.

Thanks again Neil.....when are we going spotting??? Hows Sunday Dec. 30th sound....let me know?

Grant



Drive it like you stole it!
User currently offlineGmonney From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2159 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2476 times:

Good idea Slawko....get rid of the super connie and put a DC-9 with new and old Livery....That would look good!!! Maybe sell Die Cast models from the cabin!!!, move the threshold store there!!!! lol,

Take care

Grant



Drive it like you stole it!
User currently offlineC-GRYK From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 751 posts, RR: 36
Reply 17, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2449 times:

Move the store there? Hahahaha when Mickey first heard the Connie was for sale he sent me over to ask how much, they wanted a ton of cash so it didn't happen. Grant, GE engines are the CF6's, the RR are the Trent770's, and the PW are the PW4000's.

On a side note, when is C-GZIA going to leave? I heard it will go to Tahiti Nui along with an ex Sabena aircraft to replace F-OITN.

Jeremy



Think before you type!
User currently offlineGmonney From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2159 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2447 times:

Thanks Jeremy....,

Now I know.....I must work on the engine part of this hobby....I have the aircraft part figured out!!! You don't think Mickey would look good in the Super Connie!!!!! lol....but it would be a great idea though.....selling all of those addicting die cast models in an aircraft!!!

Grant



Drive it like you stole it!
User currently offlineYow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2411 times:

Yeah that would be awesome to see an AC DC9 at the National Aviation Museum. A new hangar needs to be built though before that happens as there are a half dozen aircraft sitting outside (including a TCA Viscount and the prototype Dash-7) literally rotting away. Only in Canada would something like this happen. There might be a bit of a problem landing a DC-9 at rockliffe airport since the runway is only 3000 feet long. I guess you could always fly it into YOW, remove the wings and truck it to the museum and then re-attach them.

One of AC's nines have to be preserved as they are an important part of Canada's aviation history. Only 4 days of AC DC-9 service left.  Sad


User currently offlineGmonney From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2159 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2390 times:

I will miss the Roar of the DC-9's taking off from RWY 23 at YYZ.....or seeing it go almost vertical on take-off!!

I will be looking for a DC-9 for my Wall paper...in memory of this awesome aircraft!!!

Grant



Drive it like you stole it!
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