USAirways737 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1026 posts, RR: 1 Posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2733 times:
British Airways flies to almost every major American city(Atlanta, Houston, San Diego, Baltimore, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Miami, Seattle, Boston, Tampa, Charlotte, New York - JFK, Chicago, Newark Nj, Dallas/Fort Worth, Orlando, Washington - Dulles, Denver, Philadelphia, Detroit, and Phoenix.)
except MSP. BA even flies to Charlotte which is less than half the size of the MSP area. Is there something I am missing here? When are we going to get to experience the "worlds favourite airline"?
5280AGL From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 414 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2425 times:
There is plenty of demand in the Twin Cities for such a service. You do realize that NW flies there from MSP, right? Hell, if they can fly to Charlotte, which is a microbe compared to the Twin Cities, they could fly to MSP...The only problem is NWA, which is why no other european and asian airlines fly there as well, except KLM which doesn't count.
Yyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 10, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2426 times:
The NW hold on MSP arguably keeps other airlines from offering intl service. Similar to other fortress hubs such as PHL, PIT, CLT, DEN, MEM. While some of these get BA service, they don'y get much else.
Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
Continental From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5499 posts, RR: 19
Reply 11, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2412 times:
That's true, NWA does serve England from here in MSP. BUT! BA has many other US destinations that offers much more different destinations and with more airlines! MSP-LHR, GTW route is doing great, I think at parts of the year it is operated with a 747. I heard last year that BA was talking about MSP service, it'd be great to see BA here in MSP.
ILS: There are tons of BRITS here in MN, there are a couple of BRITS across the street! There are plenty BRIT owned companies around here!
Zeus01 From United States of America, joined May 2001, 744 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2405 times:
There is another European airline that flies to MSP.....
Iceland Air. I know. BA (which i don't like anyway) doesn't fly to North America's 7th busiest airport, yet they fly to Tampa and Charlottle.
Before anyone else says their is no market in MSP...don't. Look at the amount of fortune 500 companies here compared Tampa, San Dieago, or Charlotte. ANyway, THe Minneapolis Airport Comission has even said that NW's stronghold has resulted in many airlines from flying out of here including BA, LH and Southwest. But, LH has been trying pretty hard to get in.
USAirways737 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1026 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2389 times:
It would be great to see LH. We would possibly be able to see a A340 for once! But a BA 777 would be better.
On another note, what makes NW so feared. Every airline uses pricing and capacity changes when a new airline comes around so why is this such a problem when dealing w/NW? BA already competes against NW in DTW, so why is MSP so much different?
Mah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32172 posts, RR: 72
Reply 15, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2382 times:
USAirways737, BA has been at DTW for a long time, plus DTW is a market double the size of MSP. Despite that, BA's DTW flights are only a 763, but they are profitable because DTW is an LHR city (and in some ways, they don't compete with NW, which is DTW-LGW). I do think that there is a market for BA at MSP, though. MSP is not the only airport that suffers. Look at ATL and all the airlines they have lost as DL grew (some were lost because they ended DL codeshares). Varig, JAL, Austrian, and Sabena. And just this year, Swissair and KLM. Plus Lufthansa and British Airways have decreased service over the years (BA from 2 to 1 daily and LH from 7 to 6 a week with smaller 342s). DTW does not have many foreign airlines either. Just BA and LH.
Mah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32172 posts, RR: 72
Reply 19, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2351 times:
That is true, CLE is larger than MSP, but not by much (MSP is 2.76M growing at a rate 4 times that of CLE, which is 2.90M). MSP also has a much larger business community. STL is slightly smaller than MSP (2.51M), but MCI (1.69M) and IND (1.49M) don't compare.
Thomacf From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 542 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2344 times:
My post didn't all get in. I am assuming when you mean market size you mean population. There are other cities that are about the same size that I didn't mention like Columbus, New Orleans, Nashville and Memphis. Just because MSP has fortune 500 companies headquarter in the area doesn't mean that they have strong ties to the London market. I am form CLE and have thought the same thing and feel your pain. The Cleveland-Akron-Canton-Lorain area is huge and is bigger and more populated than the MSP area but the demand isn't there and what is there is handled by CO and that appears to only be seasonal. NW handles the demand in MSP and most of that demand i'm betting is connecting traffic. We had the American headquarters of BP here in CLE and the world headquarters is in London and it took 15 years since BP came here to get a nonstop flight. Some of those cities that I mentioned aren't hubs and that is another reason why they don't have BA service. Just because they have around the same poplation doesn't mean that alot of people need to go to Europe and will fill a nonstop BA widebody on a daily basis. Some of those cities like Tampa, Miami and San Diego get the service because they are big tourist areas.
Mah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32172 posts, RR: 72
Reply 21, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2338 times:
Thomacf, MIA has BA service to London (which is BA's third most popular US destination) because South Florida is a market of 5.1M people with huge ties to Europe. Miami-London is a major business route and a huge money maker for AA, BA, as well as VS (although VS transports mainly tourists). You also have no idea about market sizes. New Orleans is 1.285M, Nashville is 1.11M, Memphis is 1.07M, Columbus is 1.34M. None of those compare to Minneapolis. The fact is that MSP has closer ties to Europe than CLE and is a much more suited market for BA service than CLE.
HUYfan From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 1401 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2306 times:
there are a few points to clear up on this topic.
1. Minneapolis is one of the world hubs for KLM and Northwest, there are 2, 3 daily in summer flights between amsterdam and msp. The AMS end feeds a lot of pax from KLM uk flights, therefore, in theory, the UK-MSP market, along with NWs own LGW service is amply covered. Do not underestimate reluctance to switch carriers, for example, if a passenger in Bristol, Teesside or Humberside wanted to get to MSP, would they take the arduous road journey to LGW to connect with expensive BA, or would they take a hop accross to AMS and connect there, yes they would, and DO.
2. Detroit is also served by KLM, and in the high summer, there are 5 return dailies between DTW and AMS, op by KL/NW. Condor also fly there in the summer.
3. BAs Tampa service has a very high load factor, in my experience, those 300+ seats are always full, and it has puzzled me as to why the frequency has not been increased on the route.
4. All this talk of smaller markets, they are not served by BA, because, they can only really support one transatlantic service a day, if that. For example, BA dont fly to MEM, because of the daily KLM M11 to Ams, and because, without a tie-up with NW, there are very few connecting flights out of MEM. The same can be said for CLE, CO operate a daily LGW 752, summer only at the moment, and again, there is a lack of options for connecting pax out of CLE.
i appreciate that the population of MSP is large, and personally, i believe that a daily BA 763 could be a success, BUT, sep 11th has had a severe impact on travel between the states and europe, and i think it will be quite some time before the market gets back into its growth spurt.
: In winter, the MSP kings, NW cant even fill daily DC-10's to LGW, even with all their feed into the airport. How do you expect BA to make money on thi
: Charlotte is the second largest banking center in he United States after NYC. That means they are ahead of Dallas, Atlanta, Chicago, San Francisco, et
: Condor does not serve DTW any more! --- But why isn't AIR FRANCE serving this route. There are lots of french origins in this region, aren't they?
: here in philly although we get 2 ba flights a day, that is about it. 1 other lufthansa flight and air france flight. with about 8 usairways internatio
: I guess since Charlotte is the second larget banking center in the country, that means that Hartford and Des Moines, which are the #1 and #2 insurance
: Condor serve DTW on a weekly basis, from MUC in the summer ONLY. They are scheduled to operate a tuesday rotation this coming summer!!!
: First off, yes Aussiestu, Europeon airlines did and still do serve MSP. KLM, and Icelandair. LH had MSP service a long time ago though. Why would it b
: BA has been serving Detroit back when Willow Run was the main passenger airport in the 50's. BA used to fill 744's and 772's to Detroit before Sept 11
: I can't see Monterrey Mexico ever getting BA service. JPGR, you mention it has a 3.1M population...and it may be Mexico's industrial city....but it's
: When was the last time airlines flew to a city purley based on population? CLE the city is larger than Minneapolis and St. Paul, but with surrounding
: CLT is a major banking centre, but pretty much domestic (BoA's main interantional operations are out of New York City, San Fran, and Miami). None the
: A BIG reason why British Airways dosen't fly to MSP is the simple fact that Northwest and KLM virtually dominate the international market there, like
: I believe the stop at BWI from CLT on BA is likely a result of the decline in transatlantic traffic post 9/11. But BA is most likely in Charlotte as a
: Scotb, yes, it was after 9.11, but downgrading from a non-stop 777-200 to a one-stop 767-300 via another city? Doesn't that say someting on how poor a
: BA actually looked into BDL in the earl;y 90's but the recession caused them to back out. I would think a city like BDL, CMH, MSP would be next to get
: Any source for the Condor flight to DTW? It is mentioned nowhere. (amadeus.net / Condor.de / lufthansa.com / german forums) --- Lufthansa used Condor
: Thanks Continental. I did not know that Icelandiar flew to MSP. Most passengers probably connect onto their European services. A great little airline
: Aussiestu, actually, I believe Minneapolis and Minnesota in general have America's largest Icelandic population. Someone correct me if I am wrong. If
: Minnesota consist mainly of German backround. You will find almsot no one with out a little german in them, though there also is a huge Scandinavian b
: David (Zeus).....German ?! If that is the case then why is the NFL team called the 'VIKINGS' ? Indeed Minnesota's primary ethnic background is Scandna
: To clear up a few things: I didn't say MSP had the largest Asian population. I said it had the largest Hmong population. Which it does. Obiciously you
: David I stand corrected on the Hmong remark. I should have read it a little more carefully. As to the German v Scandi issue, well, I stand by my remar
: Mah4546- Recall that the present situation (the post-9/11 industry and recession) has brought significant changes to the industry and to transatlantic
: Remember back when BA used 757s to the USA? I am sure they can make success with a 757 on LHR-BDL... or maybe if customs are built at LGA... LGA-LHR (
: From what i know I dont think the 757 has enough range for London-Minneapolis. Its about 4,700 miles and the 757 has a 4,000 mile range. Someone corre
: Be careful with those stupid, ignorant remarks you made about Mexico, you're not precisely showing much education. And it's Monterrey, not Monteray, I
: Nightcruiser: What about UA in ORD?? Virgin and BA fly there, UA has a few flights to England also. That's just one example of the many I can think of
: I'm sorry USAirways737, my previous post was actually to Zeus01
: AM, your such a great friend, what woudl I do with out you to correct my english. But wait, gues what? I don't give a damn. Mis spelling a word means
: WOW, this post has gone bezerk! Oh well, doesn't matter to me! Continental 4.0 GPA
: Why did talk that way about Mexico in the first place? This is not the right forum for that. You may have gone to a lot of places, but if you think yo
: Such a disappointment........I was expecting to see an exciting new post about international air service at MSP, since it's been more than 24 hours si
: Hey, What aircraft is BA currently using on the Charlotte route. Two years ago i flew BA from Charlotte-LGW and back on BA. on the way there we had a