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Plans For New Operators MUC-MLA? LH?  
User currently offlineBBADXB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (12 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1396 times:

hi,

Are there any plans in the offing for new operators Munich-Malta?

I know that Air Malta must have been having problems filling up its MUC-MLA flights in November (they offered seats at ridiculously low prices back then), but this was maybe due to KM having no (or little) connecting traffic both directions.

And ever since swissair stopped flying to Malta (late October), LH has been flying daily with at least A321 equipment, sometimes using A310s ...and often A300 aircraft were flown-in instead of their scheduled A320 service. I remember this happening even before SR pulled out.

So I don't know, but maybe LH should consider another flight (perhaps 3 times weekly initially) to MLA from MUC, at a different time of the day than their midday flight from/to FRA ... as I believe that particularly in summer, it is going to be very difficult to satisfy the demand at the present capacity.

I think that their traffic would increase a lot as it would open up so many new possibilities for connecting traffic through MUC.

Any news/comments?

Regards,

BBADXB


24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBBADXB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (12 years 6 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1287 times:


Anyone??

 Wink/being sarcastic



User currently offlineBBADXB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (12 years 6 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1264 times:


Anyone from Germany or elsewhere with some kind of insight about this??

Thanks.  Wink/being sarcastic



User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24906 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (12 years 6 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1254 times:

Malta's a mainly tourist destination so maybe it wouldnt suit LH's strategy. I am guessing there is a few charter flights to MLA from MUC so would be no demand for a LH scheduled flight.


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineBBADXB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (12 years 6 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1245 times:


Could be so. But as far as I know the charter flights are only on KM.
Thanks.  Wink/being sarcastic


User currently offlineNdebele From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 2899 posts, RR: 23
Reply 5, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1236 times:

What kind of passengers do you expect on Malta-flights? There are only very few passengers travelling from Malta to Germany. 99% of the passengers are German who visit the wonderful islands of Malta. And 99% of those passengers take one of the dozens of charter flights from many German airports.

I think the daily LH flight is mostly good for pax travelling
a) FRA-MLA only
b) MLA-FRA connecting on LH's worldwide route network
c) coming from smaller German airports which don't have MLA nonstop flights, using FRA as a hub
d) passengers from e.g. USA, arriving at FRA in the morning and connecting to MLA

Considering c) and d), a midday flight is the best solution on this route. As you already mentioned, KM is not very successful on the MUC-route (it also depends on the season), so why should LH add flights?


User currently offlineBBADXB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1221 times:


Hi, Ndebele!

I think that with the pull-out of SR, LH has a market share to gain if it offers better & new connections... and this is reflected with the upgrade of equipment from A319/A320/A321 a/c to A321/A310/A300 a/c. I think that the connecting traffic is really strong - I was on a LH A300 flight MLA-FRA at the end of October and out of the 200 or so pax, 156 were connecting whilst 47 were for FRA.

I know that operating two services with A319s or B733s daily from FRA and MUC (or almost daily from in the case of MUC) will incur more risks and costs, but if the MUC-MLA flights are in the evening and the MLA-MUC flights are in the morning, then LH would have the best connections for business and leisure travellers from MLA - this would be undisputably so and this will put LH in a good position in this market, even if it is relatively an insignificant one...

I don't kow ... maybe I'm just thinking wishfully.. or something... Anyway.
That's all I had to say...
BBADXB  Wink/being sarcastic



User currently offlineBBADXB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1214 times:


One thing is for sure - come summer 2002 and they would probably need to operate even larger a/c than the A300 or more frequent services as SR used to operate the A330 and the MD11 in the height of the summer season.

BBADXB  Wink/being sarcastic



User currently offlineB737-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1218 times:


IT probably just is your wish to see more LH planes. I don't think they will use larger equipment ? What kind of ? Certainly not an A340.
LH has Condor for such flights whereas SR didn't really have a such big thing.


User currently offlineAirsicknessbag From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 4723 posts, RR: 34
Reply 9, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1211 times:

Condor will start flights DUS-MLA next summer. Well, actually it´s only Eurowings (A319) but Condor advertises Malta as "new Condor destination".
Daniel Smile


User currently offlineNdebele From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 2899 posts, RR: 23
Reply 10, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1210 times:

I agree with B737-700. Don't attach too much importance to SR influencing LH bookings.
First of all, I highly doubt that SR ever operated A330/MD11 on a regular basis into MLA. I've been to MLA twice (always in August, which you can call "height of the summer season"), and I'm working for Qualiflyer, but neither have I seen SR operating larger equipment than A321 at MLA, nore have I ever had MLA transfer pax at the c/i on another aircraft than 319/320/321.
There are still flights ZRH-MLA (at least Air Malta, maybe even Balair or Edelweiß), I don't think that anybody would fly ZRH-FRA-MLA.


User currently offlineAirsicknessbag From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 4723 posts, RR: 34
Reply 11, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1205 times:

I wouldn´t discount that possibility too fast, the LH FRA-MLA service also bears an OS code, so there must be people doing VIE-FRA-MLA. And currently there is only one scheduled non stop flight ZRH-MLA (KM Thursday); the only other direct ones is KM´s one stop (MXP/ORY) on Saturdays/Sundays. Via FRA you can have it daily.

Daniel Smile


User currently offlineNdebele From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 2899 posts, RR: 23
Reply 12, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1204 times:

Ooops, I always thought KM has a daily ZRH flight - obviously I was wrong. How about charter flights (Crossair, Balair, Edelweiss)?
As for the OS-code on LH's FRA-MLA flights: Not sure about frequency on VIE-MLA flights, but don't you think that this codeshare flight is more useful for pax ex LNZ, GRZ, etc.?


User currently offlineLMML 14/32 From Malta, joined Jan 2001, 2565 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1195 times:

BBADXB - When LH operates widebody aircraft it is rarely because the pax load justifies this equipment. LH is the biggest cargo operator out of Malta and that is the reason for A310/A300 ops. Malta used to be big with the Germans. Unfortunately Frosch decided to pull out of Malta altogether. Gone are the days when Condor aircraft used to dominate the apron on Sunday mornings. Eurowings and AeroLloyd used to operate regularly too. AirMalta even leased two L-1011's for an entire month some 4 years ago to meet the demand. I am glad that Condor is once more advertising Malta as a "New Destination". Now that FTI is no more AirBerlin has taken over some of that traffic. But this is a far cry from the "FTI days" of last year.

User currently offlineAirsicknessbag From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 4723 posts, RR: 34
Reply 14, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1193 times:

At least nothing of possible LX, BB, EDW flights shows up at amadeus.

RE: Austria
Three weekly non stops VIE-MLA (Wednesday, Friday, Sunday, KM) - given that Austria should be firmly "Miles&More country" by now and there are good connecting times at FRA (60/50 minutes), I guess the OS flight FRA-MLA is mainly targetted at VIE.
But of course there might be charters as well (NG, KM). albeit not visible through amadeus.

Daniel Smile


User currently offlineBBADXB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1186 times:

Hi!

The LH daily service also codeshares with SK and UA apart from OS.

KM has 3 weekly flights to VIE.

And I am not aware of any balair or Edelweiss flights, but maybe they have a couple of `one-off` type of charters to MLA in summer.

I am happy to hear than DE/EW will have 'new' flights from/to DUS/MLA in summer. I will pick up a copy of the DE summer 2002 timetable from FRA on my way back to MLA.

There were rumours earlier this year that VS, Air Berlin, Deutsch BA... might startup to here, but nothing materialised. Also, with the take over of some 'major' projects/hotel properties at MLA by Spanish giant Sol Melia, and some comments by local tourism big-heads, I thought that charters from/to Spain might appear more frequently next summer... Any info about this?

I think that since SR pulled out, it is quite difficult to find 'decent' connections out of MLA to secondary European destinations, leaving virtually no choice but LH, which in turn also has its own limitations.

rgds,
BBADXB  Wink/being sarcastic



User currently offlineBBADXB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1184 times:


I am kind of starting to think that living somewhere where there's just a 'peripheral' airport s*cks.

?BBADXB


User currently offline717fan From Switzerland, joined Nov 2001, 2017 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1171 times:

Air Malta has doubled its flights to ZRH from 2 to 4 per week effective Dec 01.
717fan


User currently offlineHUYfan From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 1405 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1168 times:

Lufthansa DID operate MUC-MLA services a few years back, with ARJ85 equipment. I presume the service was unsuccessful, otherwise, it would still be running.

Reagrds


User currently offlineD-AIFB From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 121 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1152 times:

If LH sees enough demand for additional MLA flights, they surely will add them.

After SR dropped MLA, they upgraded their daily FRA-MLA flight from A320 to A321 (180 vs. 144 seats = +25%). That should be enough to cater a good (higher yield) portion of former SR pax. SR might have "created" a special (artificial) demand for their flights with offering very low fares (esp. for transit pax through ZRH).

Perhaps in 2003 or 2004 LH will upgrade their flights, when future demand and yield are looking fine for this destination. Of course, LH also won´t hesitate to cancel a destination, whenever it sees no profitable future for it (e.g. SKG and VLC, both axed completely this winter).

There are three different possibilities for LH to increase capacity to MLA furthermore:
* additional flights from FRA, beside their already excisting daily ex FRA
* additional flights from MUC, while keeping their daily FRA service
* shifting the MLA flight to MUC and upgrade it with additional flights (e.g. twice daily)

In the past, LH had already shifted some destinations from FRA to MUC in order to free up capacity in FRA for other (mainly longhaul) flights or to increase service to certain destinations. Last examples were TUN (Tunis) and ESB (Ankara, Turkey). Nowadays, when LH even cuts some flights in FRA, they consistently shift some flights back to FRA in order not to loose any slots there.

Moving ESB from FRA to MUC went along with doubling capacity from one to two dailys. TUN flights are back in FRA again and will stay there at least for the next year.

So, everything is possible for MLA the next years. I guess, when demand and air traffic pick up again and therefore slots become more rare again for LH in FRA, they´ll shift the one or the other flight to MUC. Of course, it also depends what kind of traffic they have on a certain flight. When there´s a lot of (worldwide) cargo in the belly, at least one daily flight will stay in FRA (to provide easy transfer to their huge cargo network there). When LH has got regularly a very high number of intercontinental transit pax on board, they´ll leave the flight in FRA.


LH used to fly MUC-MLA thrice weekly with ARJ85 about three years ago for one single summer season. This was a very curious thing, because it was a night flight (MUC dep. 11 or 12 pm, arr. 5am) and it was introduced only at short notice. The time of arrival in MLA was extremly bad (about 2am) and connecting possibilities in MUC weren´t good either (outside the main connecting banks). Although this flight was often fully booked, it obviously only attracted low yield pax.


Condor will start service to MLA from 5 airports in Germany next spring: Fryday with A320 from FRA, DUS and MUC; Sunday with B733 (probably LH a/c) from STR and TXL.

Air Berlin (AB) will substitute FTI with one weekly sunday flight each from MUC and SXF. Beside this KM usually operates about 4 (or 5) times a week to MUC during high season (with a mix of schedule and charter services).


User currently offlineBBADXB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1138 times:


WOW! (More) DE flights to MLA in summer - that's great news for me & probably the rest of the spotters at MLA..

I hope I get to fly them a couple of times next summer, though things do look like I'm going to be pretty busy.

Thanks for info.

BBADXB  Wink/being sarcastic



User currently offlineLMML 14/32 From Malta, joined Jan 2001, 2565 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1124 times:

The DE MLA ops are still not confirmed. FTi's withrawal from on lthe MLA route has still not been replaced. So I think that DE are viewing this as an opportunity. The Germany-Malta high density tourism traffic issue is still wide open.

User currently offlineAirsicknessbag From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 4723 posts, RR: 34
Reply 22, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1117 times:


They are listed in the print version of the summer schedule and appear in amadeus by now.

And D-AIFB is correct, Condor Berlin A320s on Fridays from FRA, DUS, MUC, LH 737-300s on Sundays from STR, TXL, all under DE flight number; I don´t know why I mentioned a EW service in my above post, it was a mistake on my part, sorry.
BTW, the FRA and DUS flights are 757-200s on some days as well.

Daniel Smile


User currently offlineLMML 14/32 From Malta, joined Jan 2001, 2565 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1116 times:

The plan is there. I am not arguing that they are not on the CRS (I will check that when I get back to work). But from info I have there are no ground handling arrangements finalised as of yet.

User currently offlineD-AIFB From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 121 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1111 times:

The subsitution for Fly FTi´s MLA ops is already fixed and they´ll further reduce capacity to MLA as they do to all other holiday destinations.

They will have seats on Air Malta/KM from MUC, STR, FRA, DUS, HAJ, HAM, TXL, LEJ, DRS and on Condor/DE ()that´s new!) from MUC, STR, DUS and TXL.

In addition Air Berlin will operate 3 weekly flights for FTI from MUC, FRA and SXF (on sundays).

Above informations are taken from the FTI Malta brochure for Summer 2002.


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