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AA To Ground All 717 In Fleet  
User currently offlineAa777flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5310 times:

American Airlines is currently only operating 18 of the 30 717's it aquired when AA merged TWA into its fleet on 12/2/01. Now it looks as though AA has chosen to ground all remaining of the 717's by 2/1/02. This will result in the loss of approximately 200 more jobs. The 717 being incompatable with the rest of the AA fleet is the main reason. AA has also already grounded a number of the 757/767 (TWA) fleet as well.

46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently offlineNdebele From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 2905 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4808 times:

Now THIS is a stupid decission!

User currently offlineBoeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4773 times:

Yeah, I can't figure that one out either. My only guess is that the acquisition costs to replace the F-100' is too high.

Incompatability? The 717 has a hell of a lot more in common with the 200+ MD-80's they already have, versus the F-100'2. Go figure.

User currently offlineHB-IQF From Germany, joined Jan 2002, 103 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4735 times:

CORRECT !!!  Innocent

User currently offlineAa777flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4706 times:

True the 717 is more common with the 300 plus MD80 in fleet. But it is cheaper on a per aircraft basis to maintain a fleet of 75 F100 then just 30 717. This is due to parts inventories, MX costs, crew training costs etc....

User currently onlineCPDC10-30 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4987 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4682 times:

Are the aircraft leased or purchased? If they're leased it could be a ploy to renegiotiate the contract with more favourable terms to reflect the current market conditions. Otherwise, if the merger with Hawaiian/Aloha goes through I would see them as a client to replace the Aloha 732s and go all-717 on the island hopping fleet.

User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4196 posts, RR: 33
Reply 6, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4636 times:

No surprise IMO. Rumours have suggested that 6 of the 717s will go to Impulse, the others likely to Alohawiian.

Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4502 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4582 times:

Compatibility / commonality has little to do with the fuselage heritage of the B717, which is probably the biggest "commonality" with AA MD80s. We are talking about the engines, cockpit-layout, cabin interior etc. - and I guess there is no commonality with regards to this at all, making the B717 an orphan in AA's fleet and 30 are just too small a number to keep them.

After mergers / take-overs, airlines have even disposed of aircraft which were exactly the same "type" they already had in their inventory, but had different specifications that made them unsuitable.

User currently offlineAamd11 From UK - Wales, joined Nov 2001, 1068 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4551 times:

True, many airlines including AATWA have disposed of the same aircraft.. AA dispoding of the TWA 757s cos they are PW, not RR like the AA ones...
The 767s are also PW, AA are GE, again more incompatability......
the airframe is basically the same, but businesses like AA dont give a monkeys about the airframe, training costs for future crews... maintainance on another type of engine (the main reason they are to get rid of TWA 75/67s...) and all that....

having that few a/c isnt worth it in such a big ailrline which also has 737-800s which are not too much bigger... they have too many types, and one of them had to go... and it was always to be the 717, instead of removing 200/300+ MD80s, or 100+ 738s or 75 F100s...

User currently offlineAKelley728 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2198 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4375 times:


I see from your profile that you work for AA. When is American going to make an annoucement regarding the 717?

It's just I've search all around the internet and have found nothing to substatiate your claim. I was also in St. Louis a couple of weeks ago and saw a number of 717s painted in the AA/TWA livery. Why would they do that if they were thinking of grounding them soon?

It's not that I don't believe you, but some additional proof would be nice!

User currently offlineAa777flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4303 times:

American plans to ground 717s, bump TWA workers, union says

By Cynthia Wilson – St. Louis Post-Dispatch – 1/4/02

American Airlines plans to ground its remaining 18 Boeing 717 jets - a move that would leave another 61 pilots and up to 191 flight attendants at TWA Airlines LLC out of work next month, according to the union representing pilots at TWA. Since the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, which severely depressed the airlines' passenger traffic, 229 pilots and 834 flight attendants at TWA have been furloughed or given notices. The upcoming furloughs, set to take effect Feb. 4, will be the result of fleet changes, said Capt. Glenn Stieneke, a spokesman for the TWA branch of the Air Line Pilots Association. Stieneke said ALPA learned of American's plans to ground the newest airplane type in TWA's fleet Thursday through a daily communications update the Allied Pilots Association, which represents American's pilots, sent to its members. A spokesman for American would say only that the airline is in the "final stages" of reaching a broad fleet plan with Boeing and would make an announcement when a deal is reached. The Boeing 717 is the newest aircraft type in TWA's fleet, having entered service in April 2000. Earlier, American took 12 Boeing 717s out of service.


User currently offlineMls515 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3081 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4281 times:

I am also surprised. Not only have they bothered to repaint them, they've made them meet MRTC standards as well.

I'm glad I got to fly one I guess.

User currently offlineMls515 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3081 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4214 times:

clarification: fly on one
I'm no pilot.

User currently offlineFlightSimFreak From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 720 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4206 times:

Dyslexic me thought that you ment they were going to ground all 717 planes in their fleet... I don't think that they have exactly 717 planes... I was thinking OMG, AA is quiting!

User currently offlinePilothica737 From United States of America, joined May 2001, 297 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4187 times:

see this why I hate AA! They always have to go arround changing stuff!
 Big thumbs up

User currently offlineTWAneedsNOhelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4199 times:

I think TW bought and financed its fleet of 717s.

User currently offlineCx flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6805 posts, RR: 55
Reply 16, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4171 times:

Are these 717s tempoarily grounded, or are they being returned to lessors?

If they are looking for new homes, it will probably be quite a while before all 30 go onwards to new airlines. What will this mean for the 717 line?

User currently offlineLuckySevens From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4165 times:

I guess the question is now:
What won't AA remove?

It's a pity that TWA does not still have their 741/2s...AA could have grounded those, too!

User currently offlinePenguinflies From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 995 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4117 times:

TWA's aircraft are owned by Boeing Capitol and some group (WFBN, FSBU). Names from the Jet Aircraft Census.

I guess it is cheaper to use planes that AA owns (F-100) than leased ones (717). AA just devalued the F-100 fleet the past few quarters on their balance sheet.

IMO, i would rather see them change stuff then hear about them losing plenty of money or on the verge of Ch. 11 like some other airlines.

and doesn't AA own much (over 70%) of their fleet while TWA leased most of their fleet (95%). It is cheaper and more efficient to send a plane that you own then one you lease.

User currently offlineLV From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 2020 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4110 times:

Hum, DL is not Air Tran's worst nightmare, AA is. Grounding the fleet can't be good for airlines already operating the 717, less parts. Of course, if these birds get picked up by Aloha/Hawaiian, Impulse, Air Tran, Midwest Express and others, it might lead to future orders, saving the 717 program and the Long Beach plant.

After all, what were the chances of AA ordering any more 717s to begin with.

User currently offlineN400QX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (14 years 4 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4085 times:

What a shame that they're dumping the 717... American should buy more, IMO, to compliment their 30-some fleet. So much for flying the 712 around in the continental States (no, I won't go on ValuJet).

User currently offline717fan From Switzerland, joined Nov 2001, 2022 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (14 years 4 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3970 times:

I don't think that the grounding of AA's 717 fleet has much to do with future of the 717. Boeing is knowing quiet for a long time that AA won't go for the 717...that grounding is logical but sad for me...you'll see, the orders for the 717 will come in, not as much, but they will come...

User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4196 posts, RR: 33
Reply 22, posted (14 years 4 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3950 times:

717fan, I think a bit different. The big problem for Boeing is now - assuming that AA will retire all B712 - that 30 really young (you could just say factory-fresh) B717 are on the second-hand market at lower prices than Boeing can demand for a new build. The few b717 operators will first take these aircraft until they will order new ones. 30 B717 equal to a production run of 20 months at a rate of 1.5 frames a month. This means a one- or even a one-a-half-year long thirst period for Boeing. Now the question is: is Boeing willing enough to bear the costs of such a small production rate? That there will be orders is no question - but will the ordered amount be big enough to keep the production?


Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineKiwi dave From New Zealand, joined Aug 2000, 895 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (14 years 4 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3926 times:

It will be interesting to see if QANTAS Link gets some of them.

User currently offlineCcrlR From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 2328 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (14 years 4 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3903 times:
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This is the same thing like Reno Air and AirCal. This is why American is like the monster airline. They want to get all the small airlines and later on take their planes out of their fleet. this is the same thing with American with Reno Air and AirCal.

"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
25 Alaskaairlines : Sad indeed. -Dmitry
26 Pilothica737 : if AA keeps going like this, then there won't be anymore planes to fly!
27 717fan : Flying-Tiger What you said could be true, you're right. But, as I stated in some other topics, I don't think that Boeing is put a lot of money in an a
28 The777Man : I saw N713TW on 5Jan02 at LAX in full AA colors AND with full AA titles and markings so I guess that they are keeping some of the Ex-TWA aircraft. The
29 AAtripleseven : In purchasing smaller airlines, I don't think their main objective is to acquire new aircraft. They can purchase new aircraft cheaper if this is their
30 AKelley728 : Aa777flyer: Thanks for the link to the article. I flew out of St. Louis yesterday and I only saw a couple of 717s. Last month they were all over the p
31 Post contains images OzarkD9S : Drove past the 717 hanger at STL Monday and saw no less than six 717's parked in front. On a Monday!
32 Woodsboy : When AA took over Reno, the initial press and company reaction was that it was a good thing for AA and a good thing for Reno employees to now be part
33 Greg : A lot of you act like airlines are run for the benefit of enthusiasts. They are run for the shareholders. TWA is so lucky that AA came in. Otherwise,
34 CannedSpam : Hmmm.... Do I want to pay $190,000 per month per 717, or would I rather pay $90,000 per month for a MD-80. I'd take the MD-80 lease rate and that is w
35 Fleet service : Blah blah blah crap crap crap.
36 Acidradio : I could be mistaken, but isn't the F100 basically unsupported, like in order to get parts for an F100, you have to k-ball them off another F100? Then
37 717fan : AA has stated in article from Reuters from 10.01.02 that they are still in dicussions the fate of their 717's. NOTHING is decided as of yet....
38 Fleet service : AMR mulls fate of its Boeing 717 fleet By Chris Stetkiewicz SEATTLE, Jan 10 (Reuters) - AMR Corp. , parent of No. 1 carrier American Airlines, said o
39 FlagshipAZ : Well now, it looks as if the 717 still has a small chance with AA after all. And just when I started to minutely believe all the 717 nay-sayers here o
40 Aa777flyer : Just as a side note..AA will make a revised fleet plan announcement on 1/18/02. From what I understand several outstanding orders will be cancelled (7
41 Greg : AA had no choice but to say they were 'suberb' aircraft. Are they suppose to say they are second rate? Who would lease them if they made that statemen
42 717fan : But otherwise if they would return the aircraft in the near term, why are they repainting the 717's?. If so, they throw the money out of the window...
43 JAL : Why doesn't AA just retire thier F100 and replace them with newer 717?
44 Boiler Special : It's official... however all 717s won't be out of the fleet until June. The aircraft will be returned to Boeing. Check AA's 4th quarter earnings (aka
45 Flashmeister : Since traffic continues to fall and yields continue to plummet, this downsizing will continue for the future for some time. I would tend to disagree t
46 Yyz717 : This could be a good thing for the 717 program. Suddenly 30 717's are on the market....if Boeing can place them w customers, some of those customers w
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