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Wallon Region Threatening To Pull Out Of DAT  
User currently offline9Q-CLI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1287 times:

http://www.echonet.be/actu/lipagefr-es.html?ni=2002010936060

-The article states that Serge Kubla, minister @ the wallon region (a major investor in the DAT-VX ) would be reconsidering the project if its initial funding requirements ( among them enough jobs for walloons ) are not met.
Additionnally, he said on belgian TV at noon that they spent quite a bit of time analysing the project and that their final decision about the funding would be much less emotional than a month ago when Sabena went bankrupt.

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCeilidh From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1256 times:

I suspect that this is because the effective control - espcially on the long haul operations - will be in Flemish hands.

This is just so symptomatic of the problems in Belgium!  Insane  Nuts  Insane


User currently offlineTca256 From Belgium, joined Dec 1999, 729 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1255 times:

Uhmmmmm...that's bad! I mean I don't really know the
details of his claims but if the project is viable on a long
term, this would be a good invest for the Walloon region
and employment in Belgium, not only for Walloon people
but for all Belgians! On the other hand, I can also
understand he wants various guarantees....

I really hate when linguistic issues poison major issues but what would be Belgium without its linguistic quarrels ? That reminds me a few Flemish were complaining that SN was "too french", while Walloons did the same, "too flemish"....uhmmmm....


User currently offlineAir Orange From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1245 times:

It is quite silent around DAT. Can you update me? What about the merge between VEX and DAT? Where are the viscounts? What are DAT's plans?

... and stop this Walloon/Flemish crap, it's not worth. I think this Walloon minister has the right to doubt about DAT; perhaps it IS an empty box?

Regards from a just-over-the-border living Dutch (almost Flemish) speaking Dutchman.


User currently offlineTca256 From Belgium, joined Dec 1999, 729 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1240 times:

I can't provide you more news about DAT, it's quite
silent as said..maybe some former SN employees on
the forum could help us! (btw, I didn't want to start
a linguistic quarrel here, I meant how I hate that...)  Big grin


User currently offlineCeilidh From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1237 times:

If there's no funding for DAT, that means that DAT goes into liquidation which in turn means that VG Airlines will not take off on the 1st March as planned as they will then have to obtain their own certification.

I hear that VEX are not prepared to do a deal with DAT either?

What's Freddy van Gaever's backup plan?


User currently offlineDragonRapide From Belgium, joined Sep 2001, 133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1229 times:

Latest news I read was in a paper yesterday where it said that dat wanted to know where it stood with VEX by January 15 whilst VEX said they had given themselves time until March.
I also remember that the Brussels court will meet again somewhere mid January.
Another analysis I read is that the two man who took it on themselves to 'save' dat (Lippens and Davignon) are now realising they have embarkened on a 'mission impossible' and are now only trying to save their own reputation. Also it is very noteworthy that neither our Prime Minister neither the Minister formerly in charge of Sabena are speaking about dat anymore whilst a couple of weeks ago, they couldn't stop making jokes about how clever they were and how well they prepared everything for the new dat to take off. The Prime Minister even said to a press conference at the time: "I have done everything I can, the only thing left is to fly the planes myself, you don't expect that from me do you?"

Basically, I think we are going through a quiet period that gives the politics and financial backers together with the curator the chance to sort things out. If a Walloon Minister now says, they might be reconsidering, this could mean various things. It seems strange because when the Flemish region turned down the dat plan, the Walloon region was outraged. If I would know the political party of the Walloon minister who was quoted now, it could give me a better clue.
All in all, I feel the future of dat is dark, very dark.


User currently offlineTca256 From Belgium, joined Dec 1999, 729 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1226 times:

DragonRapide, it's Serge Kubla from the PRL.....By the
way, thanks for the information!


User currently offline9Q-CLI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1227 times:

According to late infos, the walloon minister Serge K
said that the proposed plan DAT-VAX is in fact a relaunch of a new Virgin using " whatever is valuable in DAT " without sufficient jobs for Belgium.....
A new attempt to lower the unemployment rate in Belgium using an airline ?
Doesn't it remind us of another scenario not so long ago ?


User currently offlineDragonRapide From Belgium, joined Sep 2001, 133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1222 times:

PRL,...
Funny thing is that around the time of the Sabena banckryptcy and the following weeks, the Flemish media didn't report much on what the PRL felt about it. All the time it was the Prime Minister and the Minister responsible for Sabena (who are both VLD which is the Flemish sisterparty of the PRL) who were in the news.
I do remember that when the Flemish Region said notwanting to join the dat funding, one PRL member (of the Brussels region) spoke not very friendly about the Flemish government...
If Mr Kubla indeed said what you quoted 9Q-CLI, well I must say I agree with him. If we would see a dat-VEX merger the number of extra jobs would be limited (if not negative meaning more redundancies ...). I'll check the news this evening to see what is said more. It is tricky to make a judgement based on a one line quote.


User currently offlineCeilidh From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1218 times:

DragonRapide - I agree with you; the future of DAT does indeed look very bleak. I have just got off the phone with my friend at VEX and he tells me that the biggest stumbling block between the parties is what happens with VEX's crews and other personnel - DAT are insisting that they get Airbuses for European routes and will employ rated (SN) crews. Obviously this will mean that the VEX pilots will be redundant, which is unacceptable to VEX. Apparently at least two of the corporate investors have made it a condition that VEX joins the group - if not, they will not invest, either.

It's very interesting that despite the well known and documented pressure and incentives from the Belgian government (such as tax incentives, guarantees, priority in government tenders etc) they have been unable to twist enough arms to raise even the relatively small amount they are after - which is in reality 60% less than they will actually need.

At the same time it's clear that if VG Airlines is to make its 1st March launch date, it needs the VEX/DAT deal to go ahead - together with all the finance. Otherwise, Freddy van Gaever will be unable to take over DAT (the Walloon government is a major creditor of the SIC and it's highly unlikely they will ever permit someone like van Gaever (who had links with the VMO back in the 1980s) to take over DAT if it goes into liquidation.

This means that as I said earlier he'll have to start up a new operation from scratch - and that will take a year or more.

Tough times ahead for DAT.


User currently offlineAir Orange From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1216 times:

I do not have any clue but I will follow all the news very closely.

About DAT; where smoke is, there is a fire!  Smokin cool


User currently offlineCeilidh From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1201 times:

I suspect that if Freddy has to cancel the lease of the three A330s with ILFC he's going to be hit with a massive bill - look at how much the early termination of the MD11 leases cost CityBird!

User currently offlineLj From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4435 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1188 times:

Should DAT declare bankruptcy than the receiver decides who gets what and not the Walloon government.

BTW has anyone seen Van Gaever on Terzake last Monday? It was very funny.

Regards
Laurens


User currently offlineGaut From Belgium, joined Dec 2001, 344 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1183 times:

Air Orange,
and stop this Walloon/Flemish crap, it's not worth. I think this Walloon minister has the right to doubt about DAT; perhaps it IS an empty box?

Kubla doubts are not about the DAT or DAT/VIRGIN viability but how many electors will get a job. He is not the best man to give lessons about airline investment (Ryanair).

About DAT:

-The problem is the SIC case, HSBC and Bayerische Landesbank don't accept, the agreement between AirHolding and the other criditors . More news tomorrow.
-Rob Kuijpers has replaced Christoph Müller
-The part owned by Sabena in SSES (engine maintenance) has been sold to Snecma. Catering, Ground Handling will be sold after the birth of the new company (if there is a birth)

About VG:

I thought that VG will fly the DAT+ Long Haul operations but according to Flight International Freddy says if DAT starts flight to NYC, VG will serve LAX and SFO instead to avoid competition with DAT. Return ticket to JFK will cost around 200€ (not cheap!). I don't know where he can find an AOC!

Gaut



«Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae.»
User currently offlineLj From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4435 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1176 times:

Gaut, JFK, BOS and FIH are already in the CRS (don't know if you can buy already a ticket) for this summer. DAT says they can't/won't operate the flight (they'll commence intercontinental flights later than anticipated due to lack of funds), VG Airlines already signed and paid for the lease of 3 A330 and for those who doubt, the transaction has been on TV including the cheque (from a Dutch bank BTW) ILFC received from Van Gaever (couldn't read the $$$$$ amount on TV). Van Gaever doesn't want to make a business plan. Thus who will fly to JFK? Not DAT (allthough Amedeus still lists them as operating the flight) but VG.

BTW EUR 200 not cheap for BRU-JFK-BRU? How much do you consider cheap for this flight?

Regards
Laurens


User currently offlineCeilidh From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1169 times:

I'm now totally confused.

Is VG Airlines (Freddy van Gaever) taking over DAT and its licences? If not, how can he operate? It will take him at least a year to obtain the documents I have set out above - and nothing will start until he produces a viable business plan!

Can anyone clarify things please?!?  Nuts


User currently offlineGaut From Belgium, joined Dec 2001, 344 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1171 times:

LJ,

I really don't know who will fly those destination (maybe a partner) but if Flight International is right, it doesn't seem to be VG. I don't have any preference about the operator I only want to see an airline flying the belgium and european flags from BRU aroud the world.

Sorry for the price, it's 500€ for return ticket to JFK (It was appr 350€ with SN). I think it's pretty expensive except if they provide a really good or innovative service

Gaut




«Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae.»
User currently offlineGaut From Belgium, joined Dec 2001, 344 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1161 times:

Ceilidh,

I'm like you, I really don't understand!
Anyway, I don't see Freddy buying DAT.
Is it possible to get the documents faster (why is it so long) or to get temporary ones?

Gaut



«Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae.»
User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4161 posts, RR: 36
Reply 19, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1162 times:

I´ve heard that DAT might have to return a number of BAe 146 and or ARJ85/100. Any truthin this?

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders The regional plane orders page



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