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B777-300X Vs B747-400  
User currently offlineDre777300x From Canada, joined Jan 2002, 24 posts, RR: 0
Posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2825 times:

Hello,

I wanted to give my personal opinion and also ask all you members this question.Now, although the B777-300x is not in service yet, I wanted to know how you think it would compare to the B747-400. Looking at the potential range, size, and economy of this plane, it SEEMS to be a very good competitior with the 747-400, although they are both made by boeing.Do you agree or disagree or whatever you think about this plane or planes I would love to hear.

Thankyou for your time

Andre

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offline747-600X From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 2795 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2776 times:

Well, the Boeing 777-300ER (that which you are calling the -300X), is a mere dozen years more advanced than the 747-400, so I don't know that I'd consider it an "inbread competitor" as much as a replacement. The 777-300's size restricts it very slightly - it can't carry quite as many pax. as the 747-400, but close enough that with its range it should be a powerful competitor. The 777 was originaly intended to be a between-the-767-and-747 size airplane, something for those who wanted great big but not behemoth. The 777-300ER will fill this market exactly as intended. With the 747-400ER now in production, the -300ER will, suffice to say, fill the market for airlines wanted just-smaller-than-747-400 size airplanes. In the mean time, Boeing is already giving itself a thorough headache over the 777-vs.-747 issue. The technological superiority of the 777 has convinced many airlines to opt for it over the 747. Why Virgin Atlantic doesn't operate 777s I simply do not understand. In any case, the Boeing is presently experiencing the 777 replacing the 747. A few very large airlines will still have an interest in the 747, but the 777 is tommorow's plane. Remember that the 747-400 was engineered in 1989. The main interest of the 747-400 right now is as a freighter, where it is vastly superior to most of the other available products. A 777-200F or -300F hasn't yet even been introduced by Boeing, and if it were it would be a while before they were put into service, and in that aspect the behemoth size of the 747 really does rule, so I think Boeing is being very intelligent about maintaining a 747-400F sales program whilst pitching the 777 to every airline market viable. So to answer your question, yes, the 777-300ER will "compete" with the 747-400, but no one is going to deny that, esp. not Boeing, they know what they've invented and they know where it is going.


"Mental health is reality at all cost." -- M. Scott Peck, 'The Road Less Traveled'
User currently offlineMr.BA From Singapore, joined Sep 2000, 3423 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2752 times:

I would agree the B777-300ER is a replacement for the B744. The B777-300ER can carry more passengers than the B744 is configured in the 3-4-3 rather than the normal 2-5-2/3-3-3 configuration. EK's B777-300 is one example, able to carry about 436 passengers. The B777 burns less fuel than the B744 hence making it more economical and the -300ER can fly as far as the B744 believe.

alvin



Boeing747 万岁!
User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2731 times:

For some airlines operating both the 744 and the 772/773 at the moment the extended-range version of the 773 might well be an interesting alternative to buying more 744s. The first such airline is Eva Air who said that the 744 will go in favour of the 773ER later in this decade.
But Boeing already said that they´re working on a so-called 744 "Green" with enhanced pollution characteristics that some airlines are already "seriously interested" in.
The 773 is still smaller than the 744, so other airlines might well stay with future versions of the "Queen of the Skies". Especially when newer, more efficient engines will be developed. I bet that Boeing won´t drop the 744 as top-of-the-line, even if numbers sold continue at a low level (btw Boeing just announced 3 additional "unidentified" orders on their webpage for 2001!).

The 773 is simply no "flagship" aircraft - and never will. Its not really impressive and will never ever reach the popularity of the Jumbo Jet, an issue not totally unimportant for airlines when buying a top-aircraft.
Look at whats going on with Emirates for example: There its already obvious, that the introduction of the A380 in 5 years will reduce the numbers of 773s in their fleet because the A380 will take over many of the 773-routes.


User currently offlineDynkrisolo From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1866 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2723 times:

Na, you are really full of it. Lemme set something straight for you. The B773ER may have slightly fewer seats than the B744, but many airlines ordered the B744 because of its range not its capacity. Few airlines fill their B744s to capacity day in and day out. Then the slightly smaller B773ER would be more economical because the B773ER has lower unit operating cost. In addition, the B773ER has substantially more cargo carrying capacity which is a valuable source of revenue, too.

Your Emirates example is absolutely baseless. EK already has a sizable B773 fleet. And they are planning to expand the fleet. Of the 25 B777s that they are going to order, many will be the B773, and possibly the B773ER.

Your EVA example is also nonesense. Do you mean EVA is canceling their B773ER order? Have they ordered any B744 for delivery after 2004 when they start receiving the B773ER?


User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2718 times:

You got me wrong. Eva Air will most likely replace the 744 with 773s, not the other way around. I think, thats what i wrote already.
The Emirates example isn´t wrong too. Emirates ordered a lot of A380 as you should know. And they´ll mainly be placed on current 773-routes. Maybe the 773 will then take over the 772-routes (the 25-strong order for 777s you are talking about will actually partly replace older 777s in their fleet!!! Thats what the airline itself is saying).
So, Dynkrisolo, don´t give such a response when you´re not 100% right. Whats your point anyway?


User currently offlineDynkrisolo From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1866 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2694 times:

Okay, I misread your EVA part. But I didn't misread you EK part?

Are you you a planner for EK? The A380 will not be in the fleet by 2006. EK has mentioned LHR and a few other destinations for the A380. But I don't think they have said that it will be replacing the B773 routes. I don't think they know the exact plans for the A380. Yet you seem to suggest with the A380 introduction that EK will reduce their B773 fleet. Well, their intent to order 25 B777s proves you are wrong.

My point is you are making assertions that are all baseless. Even your EVA statement is questionable. EVA has only ordered 4 B773ERs which is not even close to replace their B744 fleet. So, I don't think you can conclude that they will replace the B744 with the B773ER. And on what basis can you fortell that the B773ER will never reach the popularity of the B744? Boeing has marketed the aircraft for less than two years. I wonder what gives you the foresight to make such a bold prediction?


User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2672 times:

Go to any airport you like. People are always cheering about a 747, no matter what type. Never saw anyone get emotional over a 777. Its just a big Twin (the best-looking, I agree). Maybe the A380 can take the role of most-talked-about-aircraft from the 747 in the future?

The Emirates issue again: Whatever routes should the A380 fly mainly
it´ll be the flagship aircraft of the airline and in that role succeed the 773 of today. Its plain obvious, doesn´t matter when and to which destination.
Eva Air? If every 744 will go for 773s nobody knows today, I agree. But the trend is there.


User currently offlineMr.BA From Singapore, joined Sep 2000, 3423 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (12 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2632 times:

Na, I agree. Everytime when I go spotting, everyone will just simply cheer about a B747. It definately deserves the title "Queen of the skies".


Boeing747 万岁!
User currently offlineNightcruiser From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2605 times:

Na, I also agree with you. Whenever I go to the airport, I always look out for 747's, because they're practically the only jets worth looking at! Long live the 747!

User currently offlineDynkrisolo From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1866 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2605 times:

Gee whiz! [sarcasm mode on] I have never realized spotters are the ones who make decisions for airlines of what aircraft to buy! If that were the case, wouldn't you think every airline on earth should have at least one B747 as their "flagship"? [sarcasm mode off] Gimme a break. Airlines buy airplanes based on the economics of the aircraft, not the look. You may buy a car because of its look. Airlines can't do that. Most airlines are in the business carrying people from point A to point B and in the process maximizing their profits. Good looks alone won't cut it. Plain and simple.

And please read what you wrote about EK's B773 fleet:

[begin quote]


There its already obvious, that the introduction of the A380 in 5 years will reduce the numbers of 773s in their fleet


[end quote]

That is plain and simple garbage. EK's plan does not involve reducing the B773 fleet. That's a fact. What routes EK will put their A380s on, you can speculate all you want. But you are not an EK planner. That is once again a fact, plain and simple.


User currently offline9V-SVA From Singapore, joined Aug 2001, 1860 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2575 times:

EK is a big fan of the 777. So is SIA. Their fleet plans do not involve getting rid of the 777. Many airlines that have ordered the 777 do not have any more 747 aircraft on order.

The 777 was designed to complement the 747, and the 773ER is only meant to replace the 747 Classics, not the 744.The 773ER does not compete with the 744, as it has at least 1000nm less range than the venerable 744.

When the A380 enters service, people will call it a new 747.

9V-SVA



9V-SVA | B772ER
User currently offlineDynkrisolo From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1866 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2563 times:

9V-SVA, you are wrong. The range of the B773ER is not 1,000 nm less than the B744. Lemme clear all the misinformation:

from Boeing's website:

B747-400

range: 7,325 nm
pax: 412
cargo: 6,025 cubic feet
fuel capacity: 57,285 US gal.

B777-300ER

range: 7,175 nm
pax: 365
cargo: 7,080 cubic feet
fuel capacity: 47,890 US gal.

I believe the range for the B744 on Boeing's website is for the B744ER that Qantas ordered. The standard B744 has a range of 7,200 nm. Either way, the B773ER and the B744 has nearly identical range. As you can see, yes the B773ER has 11% fewer seats, but it has 18% more cargo capacity. It also needs 16% less fuel. When the B744 entered into service 14 years ago, it was the only aircraft with a range over 7,000 nm. If an airline only fills their B744 at 70% capacity regularly which most airline do, the B773ER can more than do the job of the B744, and do it with less fuel and more cargo.


User currently offlineMr.BA From Singapore, joined Sep 2000, 3423 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2557 times:

How about a B744 with the techonology the B777 uses?


Boeing747 万岁!
User currently offlineBoeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2551 times:

Actually, I think the 777 HAS borrowred technology from the 744. Best example being the cockpit. On the flip side, the 744 is borrowing from the 777 in reference to the interior.

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