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A318 Vs EMB-175...competition?  
User currently offlineFunny From Greece, joined May 2001, 333 posts, RR: 0
Posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2338 times:

I was wondering. Two freshly rolled out aircraft, with only weeks of technology difference, and relatively the same size, are bound to have some competition in the market.

Why would an airline choose Embreaer?

Why would an airline choose Airbus?


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My question is: Do you think there will be a noticable competion between the two aircraft types?

Jase


13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSteman From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 1394 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2312 times:

Maybe you should wait the proposed but not yet confirmed (am I right?) EMB-195 rather than the -175.

Ciao

Stefano


User currently offlineFunny From Greece, joined May 2001, 333 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2302 times:

The ERJ195 is quite bigger.

I am more interested in the size of both aircraft, being very alike.

Therefore im asking for the ERJ175.

Jase



User currently offlineSailorOrion From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 2058 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2300 times:

The 175 has way less seats than the A318 ... Steman is right, the 190 or 195 would be way better a competitor to the A318. Dont forget about the FD728Jet, I think the rollout will be January 28th, but it may be delayed by a couple of weeks. FD also makes the 928Jet, which IMHO could give the 736,. A318 and 717 a real hard time in the 100-seat market. Check out FD's page at http://www.faidor.com Do not forget to compare the masses of the planes. You'll be surprised.

SailorOrion


User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4165 posts, RR: 36
Reply 4, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2293 times:

Sailor is right, the Embraer 175 has seating for 78 pax, the A318 for 100+. The direct competitor for theA318, B717 and B736 are the Embraer 195 (up to 108 seats) and the 928JET (up to 110 seats). The Embraer 195 is confirmed, Crossair is the launch (and to date the only) customer for it, first deliveries are set for late 2004. Sailor, where did you hear that the 728JET will roll-out at the 28th? I thought roll-out would be in March?!?

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders The regional plane orders page



Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2279 times:

The "jungle jets" are much cheaper than Airbus...

User currently offlineDaV From Italy, joined Jun 2001, 669 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2256 times:

It will be interesting to see airlines wich fly both the A320 family and the Embraer ERJ family wich aircraft decide to get for the 100 pax segment... I'm thinking about airlines like British Airways, Alitalia, USAirways (if survives...), and so on.

Personally I can't see a bright future for FD, even if their are good products, they've never had contract signed by big airlines neither in Europe or in the US (or I am wrong?).

Rgds

DaV



Two monologues do not make a dialogue
User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4165 posts, RR: 36
Reply 7, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2254 times:

FD has contracts (only from big airlines) from Lufthansa CityLine (60+60 728JET), CSA - Czech Airlines (4+4 leased 728JET), Atlantic Coast Airlines (62+83 FD328-300 [328JET]) and a rumoured LoI for 30 728JET from KLM Cityhopper. Please don´t forget that the current ERJ-135/140/145 have nothing in common with the Embraer 170/175/190/195.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders The regional plane orders page



Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineFunny From Greece, joined May 2001, 333 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2239 times:

OK.

Lets turn my question around and ask, will there be a competition between ERJ and Airbus, as they roll-out both similar aircraft.

Jason


User currently offlineDaV From Italy, joined Jun 2001, 669 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2238 times:

Oh, didn't know that, sorry. Thanx for the info Flying-Tiger. Next time I'll check better my info!

Anyway I still think that airlines wich has already Embraer or Airbus (or both) aircraft online, hardly will chose over the Do-x28 series.

Couldn't be a smart move by Airbus to take over Dornier, or at least try to come to an accord with them for a similar cockpit implementation? I've seen that Dornier is already produce parts for Airbus... any idea?

Rgds

DaV



Two monologues do not make a dialogue
User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4165 posts, RR: 36
Reply 10, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2233 times:

Jason, I would widen your question to: how will the Embraer, CRJs and Fairchild-Dorniers compete with the B717-200, B737-600 and A318 since all play in the same class (the CRJ900 only to some extend due to its smaller size).

DaV, not necessarily. As I stated the ERJ-145-family and the larger brothers are two completely different aircraft families - as the CRJ700/900 and the 728/928JET are.

In the long-term it is really an option that Airbus takes over Dornier as this company is held by CD&R and the Allianz Group, two venture capitalists. However some problems could arouse as Aerospatiale/Dassault already co-operates with Embraer.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders The regional plane orders page



Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineSteman From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 1394 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2223 times:

DaV,
The French industry has already a 20% stake in Embraer through Aerospatiale and SNECMA so a possible joint venture could come in the future between EMBRAER and Airbus or ATR.

Ciao

Stefano


User currently offlineFunny From Greece, joined May 2001, 333 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2207 times:

Here is what Flying-Tiger said:


I would widen your question to: how will the Embraer, CRJs and Fairchild-Dorniers compete with the B717-200, B737-600 and A318 since all play in the same class (the CRJ900 only to some extend due to its smaller size).


OK. Well this is now my question!

What do you guys think?

Jase



User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4165 posts, RR: 36
Reply 13, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2216 times:

This is exactly what I think. The 736 and the 318 are add-ons to their respective families, provided to airlines which already operate members of this family and have thus the advantage of cross-crew qualification, maintenance etc. As stand-alones they are expensice due to the already mentioned strucutral over-weight which increases land fees, fuel consumption and have loading problems.

The "New Generation" regional jets have been design for this market with the 70-seats (728JET, Embraer 170, CRJ700) being the front-runners. The follow-on models in the larger market around 100-seats are straight derivates and share a very high degree of commonality - but at a much lower weight. As many might know by streching a plane you usually get slightly improved performace figures and lower seat-mile costs, this is why Embraer has a three-strech (Embraer 195), Fairchild-Dornier has the 728JET streched once to the 928JET and is considering a so-called "1128JET" as the third family member.

Especially the 100-seaters are appealing to mainline-carriers as they are very suitable B737-200, Fokker F100 and 28-4000, DC-9-10/20/30 and BAe 146-200/300 replacements. The 70-seaters are of more interest to growing regional airlines who have grown out of their 50-seaters.

I see a big market for these new aircraft families, especially the Embraer 195 and 928JET will attract orders IMO, maybe already this year with the Qantas/British Airways, the Air France, the British European and the US Airways decisions pending.

In the long-term I see Northwest as a very likely customer for this kind of aircraft, better aircraft of the respective families. Why? The 120+-seat segment is covered by the A319/320, the lower segment till 70-seats is operated by the Link divisions. Leaves the 80-110-seagment wide open, THE terrain for the NG-RJs. I won´t comment on the B717-200 here, this topic has been discussed to death.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders The regional plane orders site



Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
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