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LHs First Strike Against Ryanair!  
User currently offlineSQ325 From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 1451 posts, RR: 7
Posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2346 times:

Today a court in Germany forbid that Ryanair calls HHN (Hahn) Frankfurt-Hahn in their commercials! LH had protested against a commercial where Ryanair calls HHN Frankfurt Hahn
The judge said that the Hahn Airport has nothing to do with the Rhein-Main Area and the Rhein-Main Airport.
I wonder now where the first decision was against Ryanair other Carriers will follow and went to the judge against Ryanair.
I hope they do!

regards Bjoern

106 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHoffa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2138 times:

Why are you against Ryanair? Even if you don't like the airline, their presence can only bring prices down.

User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 2, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2128 times:

And the judge is absolutely correct. Hahn is about 100 km away from Frankfurt, has nothing to do with Frankfurt, it is another state und I find it highly misleading to tell people they'll fly to FRA-Hahn. If they don't know it they'll be up for a very big and possibly nasty surprise, finding themselves in the middle of nowhere after deboarding, especially if they have to catch a connecting flight. I don't care if LH or somebody else sued Ryanair, but the decision is totally correct! btw I've heard that Ryanair has a few other spots that are somewhat suspicious concerning sticking to the truth, but I've never seen them.
Regards
Andreas (who works in FRA and starts all his travelling from FRA Rhein-Main International)



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 3, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2118 times:

...with liking or disliking Ryanair, but there are laws in Germany against telling your customers any bullsh.t about your product, and Ryanair did just that!
Regards
Andreas



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offline1stspotter From Netherlands, joined Jun 1999, 518 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2090 times:

Hi,

There is a lot more background information on this case. Lufthansa forgot to inform the judge about the legal name of Hahn airport which is Frankfurt Hahn. It is mentioned on the airport website, it is even mentioned on the website of Lufthansa. So when the name of the airport is called Frankfurt-Hahn, Ryanair cannot be blamed for mentioning this name in their ads.


Think the president of Ryanair said that soon Lufthansa will sue Ryanair for calling itself Ryanair.


Marcel


User currently offlineCeilidh From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2083 times:

How far is Frankfurt Main from the centre of Frankfurt?

User currently offline9Q-CLI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2072 times:

That's exactly my point as well.
You can't blame the airport for naming itself Frankfurt-Hahn !!!
I think that once again, the protection of the customer is used as an excuse to protect Lufthansa.
It is rather insulting to assume that a passenger flying to Frankfurt Hahn, as it's called, is not aware of the location of the airport considering that the Ryanair site
is crystal clear about the distance between the city & the airport.

Stefan


User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4161 posts, RR: 36
Reply 7, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2064 times:

15-20 Minutes from the main station which is downtown Frankfurt. HHN is about 120km away, rail link takes about 1:20.


Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10707 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2052 times:

FRA airport is 15 minutes away with train and about the same time with car from Frankfurt midtown (about 15km),
Hahn is more than 100km away, half of it has to be driven on country roads. So it easily takes 1 1/2 hours from FRA to get there.
The judge is right. Frankfurt/Hahn is a joke and a lie. To name Hahn airport Frankfurt/Hahn should be forbidden completely, not only on Ryanair´s ads. Its almost like calling Boston Logan a New York airport!


User currently offlineHoffa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2045 times:

The IATA has listed Hahn as a designated "Frankfurt airport", so I don't see the legal basis for the judge's decision in this case. London Luton or London Stansted are far from the city of London itself, yet both are IATA designated "London airports".

As Ryanair point out, LH fly to both JFK and EWR yet calls both "New York" (even though EWR is in New Jersey).


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 10, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2040 times:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Hahn designated as a Frankfurt airport by IATA?

Sounds a bit like shooting the messenger here. Although FR are promoting it as Frankfurt for their own purposes (obviously!) you can scarcely blame them for calling the airport by its name.



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 11, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2038 times:

Ah, sorry Hoffa - posted at the same time as yourself.


She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offline9Q-CLI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2027 times:

From the Ryanair site

January 17th, 2002:



LUFTHANSA’S NIGHTMARE IN GERMANY - PART THREE THE ‘DIRTY TRICKS’ CONTINUE!!!
Ryanair, Europe’s largest low fares airline today (Thursday, 17th January 2002) submitted a third complaint to the European Commission complaining about the latest and most ludicrous legal action by Lufthansa in the Cologne courts.

Having failed originally in its application to the Cologne Court to prevent Ryanair advertising “Frankfurt-Hahn” which is the legal name of the airport, late last week Lufthansa submitted an appeal against the Courts ruling - unbelievably on an ex parte basis - and managed to persuade the Court of Appeals that Ryanair should not be allowed to use the legal name of the airport in any of its advertising.

What is most interesting in Lufthansa’s latest application is the extent to which they have failed to tell the German Court’s the truth. It would appear that Lufthansa omitted to tell the Cologne Court that the actual legal name of Frankfurt-Hahn Airport is “Frankfurt-Hahn”. It would also appear that Lufthansa omitted to tell the Cologne Court that Frankfurt-Hahn is an IATA designated airport for Frankfurt, and is therefore approved by IATA (of which Lufthansa is a member) as Frankfurt-Hahn Airport.

Lufthansa also omitted to advise the German Court that even on one of Lufthansa’s own websites (Opodo, which is part owned by Lufthansa) the designated airports for Frankfurt are “Frankfurt-Main” and “Frankfurt-Hahn”.

The lengths to which Lufthansa will go to mislead the German Courts in order to obtain ludicrous injunctions to prevent Ryanair advertising competition, low fares and choice for German consumers in the Frankfurt area is quite extraordinary.

Commenting on this development today, Ryanair’s Chief Executive, Michael O’Leary said;

“The only thing that Lufthansa haven’t yet got an injunction from the German courts is to prevent Ryanair calling itself Ryanair. So far Lufthansa have attempted to prevent Ryanair showing German consumers comparative advertising that demonstrates Lufthansa’s high prices compared with Ryanair’s low prices. Lufthansa have also tried to prevent Ryanair using the phrase “dirty tricks” in connection with Lufthansa, although clearly these ridiculous Court actions are nothing more than the latest “dirty tricks” from the German flag carrier airline which is determined to prevent the spread of competition and low fares in the German market. What is absolutely crazy is that Lufthansa can now get an order from the German Courts to prevent Ryanair referring to an airport by its legal name.

“The fact that Lufthansa would fail to tell the Judge or the Court that this is the legal name of the airport, or that this is an IATA approved airport for Frankfurt city, or that Lufthansa’s own websites refer to it as Frankfurt- Hahn shows the ridiculous lengths that Lufthansa will go to to try to prevent Ryanair advertising its services in Germany and promoting consumer choice and competition. Lufthansa is terrified of Ryanair’s low fares. The ultimate nightmare is that German consumers will now realise that Lufthansa has been ripping them all off for years.

“This is clearly not a matter that can be left to the German Courts, since Lufthansa is clearly misusing the legal process in Germany by obtaining injunctions without any notification to Ryanair, and now by failing to advise the German Courts of the factual position (such as the legal name of Frankfurt-Hahn Airport).

“We are now calling on the EU Competition and Transport Commissioners to investigate this anti-competitive behaviour by Lufthansa in order to ensure fair competition and the spread of consumer choice and low fares in the German market.

“As is the case with all of these ludicrous injunctions, Ryanair will appeal them one by one, and we will be successful on all of these appeals. Once the German Courts have heard Ryanair’s defence I am very confident that they too will put a stop to Lufthansa’s “dirty tricks”, if not, we will take them all the way to the European Courts in Luxembourg.”

Clear isn'it ?


User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 13, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2023 times:

Alright, then the state of Rheinland-Pfalz needs to be sued, too. It is even another state than FRA (Hessen), but the decision to call Hahn Frankfurt-Hahn is quite understandable: Hahn is in the region of Hunsrück, which is a rather "poor" undeveloped region of Rheinland-Pfalz. The state's PM, Kurt Beck, has been trying for years to bring international airlines to abandon FRA in favor of Hahn, for obvious reasons. So ok, to strike against Ryanair was probably only the first step, the next one should be to have the name of the airport changed from Frankfurt Hahn to just Hahn.
Regards
Andreas
btw: Subway takes exactly 11 minutes from the main station FRA to the airport station, located under Terminal 1 B. The name Frankfurt Airport is absolutely ok and definitely not misleading.



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineHoffa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2009 times:

Suing the regional government or the director of Hahn airport itself isn't the answer because it is the IATA that has listed "Hahn" as an internationally recognized Frankfurt airport and the German Federal Ministry of Transport (BMV) has recognized and approved this. Any reservation system lists Hahn as a Frankfurt Airport.

Couldn't find anything about this in English (no I don't speak German):

Die IATA Kodierungs-Abteilung hat am 8. April 1998 folgenden Entschluß bekanntgegeben :

Wir sind vom Bundesverkehrsministerium (BMV) und der Mehrzahl der Fluggesellschaften, die den Flughafen Hahn anfliegen, informiert worden, daß sie die oben erwähnte Änderung voll unterstützen und begrüßen.

Die international gültigen Kodierungen der IATA (International Air Transport Association) beziehen damit Hahn unter Frankfurt mit ein.

Mit der Publikation vom Juni 1998 wird diese Kodierung offiziell in allen Airline Publikationen bekanntgegeben.

Vorteil für Reiseveranstalter, Reisebüros und Passagiere: Flüge, die ab dem Flughafen Hahn (HHN) durchgeführt werden, sind in allen Reservierungscomputern auch unter Frankfurt (FRA) zu finden.




User currently offlineHoffa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2003 times:

http://www.konversion.com/hahn/german/ha0512.html

User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10707 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1996 times:

About LH calling EWR a New York airport (a practice that most airlines flying there use): The distance between Newark and Manhattan is less than a quarter than between Hahn and Frankfurt.


User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 17, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1989 times:

Translation of one part of the text:
"We were informed by the German State Secretary for Transportation and most airlines that use Hahn as an airport, that they collectively welcome the change (that is to submit Hahn under Frankfurt)"
So IATA itself wouldn't do it on their own, but do what they are told to do.
IMHO, the transportation secretary and especially the airlines flying into Hahn are not exactly what the judge in the abovementioned decision would call an unprejudiced opinion. The Transportation sec. should be neutral insofar as such a naming does not harm Rhein-Main Airport (the real FRA), which is not the case as FRA is already heavily overcrowded.
Would you accept Boston to be part of NY if Mr. Bush in his infinite wisdom declares Logan to a NY airport, just because an old friend wants him to do just that?
Not really!
Regards and a nice weekend
Andreas



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4161 posts, RR: 36
Reply 18, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1976 times:

Am I wrong or has the court ruled before that the term "dirty tricks" has to disappear or FR would be fined up to 250.000€?? Seems that Mr. O´Leary has to learn it the hard way. Anyway, the EC has already said that this of no matter to them as this is a legal case in Germany.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders



Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offline9Q-CLI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1972 times:

It's interesting to compare the "tricks" used by Lufthansa with those used by Sabena & Brussels airport when Ryanair started in Charleroi/Brussels in Belgium.
As in the case of Hahn, Brussels National Airport tried to sue Ryanair for using the name Brussels-Charleroi rather than Charleroi ( their argument was, as with Lufthansa, the protection of the consumer )
Obviously, it didn't fall through as Ryanair kept on using the name Brussels-Charleroi.
The strategy then turned into an obvious pressure on the state owned RTBF ( belgian french speaking TV network ) to portray Ryanair as unsafe, dirty, always late, not hiring belgians etc...
I guess, we'll soon see on ARD & ZDF interesting shows on why Lufthansa is safer, every incident with Ryanair will be reported in details and much attention will be paid to the fact that Ryanair is using Boeings rather than Airbuses..........


User currently offlineCeilidh From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1973 times:

Actually, Andreas, New York has exactly that situation with New York Stewart (Newburgh) Airport!

User currently offlineLj From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1950 times:

As previously stated. IATA considers Hahn as Frankfurt thus any airline should be allowed to advertise the destination. If IATA decides Hahn is Franfurt so be it period! Allthough I don't like FR I wish them good luck.

Andreas, IATA didn't list Hahn under Frankfurt because there weren't any scheduled flights leaving from Hahn. Moreover, the IATA designator FRA in the CRS covers both Rhein Main Airport and Hahn. However, to avoid confusion Hahn does have a seperate airport code HHN. The situation is comparable with LON (London), PAR (Paris) and MIL (Milan). The difference being that the designator FRA was already in use as an airport code (unlike the other city designators).

This is what you get if you look in Amadeus:
City: Frankfurt
Country: Germany
Airports: Frankfurt Int'l FRA
Hahn HHN
code [city code] : FRA

Sorry to say it but German judges doesn't seem to know anything about IATA, city codes and airport codes.

Flying Tiger, the EU said that they're not sure if they may accept the case.

Regards
Laurens


User currently offlineHoffa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1933 times:

How far is HHN from places like Koln, Bonn, and Luxembourg?

User currently offlineSQ325 From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 1451 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1930 times:

I hope the EU will acknowledge the decision made in Cologne!
It is a crime to tell passengers that they fly to Frankfurt Hahn because they even don't come close to the Rhein-Main Area! They are right in the middle of nowhere!
There is no Trainstation no Autobahn access there is nothing!
Nearly the same in Milan! Pescara is 45 km to Milan. If you take a loook at the Ryanair Homepage you see that there are no advices how to get to milan from pescara!
I tell you why because there is no train station! You have to go with a taxi or by bus and that takes a lot of time!
I wish luck to LH when the conflict comes to the second round!

regards Bjoern


User currently offlineAirblue From San Marino, joined May 2001, 1825 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1925 times:

Maybe the German judges doesn't know very well the IATA rules, but I respect his decision.
In any case FR could appeal to the Court decision.



25 B737-700 : I think it's a joke of Ryanair to accuse LH of "dirty tricks". Comparing their fares with the highest flexible LH business fares is a joke and a crim
26 Airblue : SQ325: maybe you mean Bergamo Orio Al Serio (BGY) 52 Km east of Milan, cause Pescara is in the middle-south of Italy at 580 Km.
27 SQ325 : 165.8km to cologne 147.9km to Bonn 119.2km to Luxembourg but there is no bus and no direct train connection!
28 SQ325 : Sorry for that but i hope my point is clear!
29 BDRules : HHN is about 150km from Luxemburg. STN is about 1hr10 from the centre of London. LH dont know when to give in. Who in there right mind if they saw "Co
30 Lowfareair : >>Would you accept Boston to be part of NY if Mr. Bush in his infinite wisdom declares Logan to a NY airport
31 Hoffa : Comparing their fares with the highest flexible LH business fares is a joke and a crime to the customers. Well to be fair, Ryanair is comparing the hi
32 B737-700 : mhh, Lufthansa is allowed to fly from any German city to Stansted right ? So what's wrong with them starting an A321 service (which no is no more I b
33 Post contains links Flying-Tiger : Hoffa, in Germany it IS against the law to compare prices, this was one of the very first court rulings against FR to stop this practice! Plus, the ju
34 Lj : Just for those who don't know. I once looked at the Ryanair website and they do comply with IATA rules. maybe hard to believe but Bergamo = Milan del
35 BestWestern : Surely Ryanair would have represented themselves in court, and told the Judge that IATA sayes HHN is Frankfurt. I note Ryanair blames Lufthansa for th
36 B737-700 : Lj, I agree on the transportation which of course is what the customers basically wants. BUT I am against it that FR compares the fares of different
37 Vfw614 : First of all, we are not talking about how in general Ryanair can advertise Hahn - this is what Ryanair is communicating but of course it is, from a l
38 Vfw614 : Laurens, of course Germany has implemented the directive concerning comparative advertising. But, as it has been said, even under that directive, you
39 Hoffa : So if Ryanair has such bad service and they are so convinced they have the superior product, why are LH running to court to prevent FR from listing HH
40 Flying-Tiger : Simple. Would FR only advertise HHN as destination only few pax would use them as nobody would knew where Hahn is. Using the misleading term Frankfurt
41 Racko : "LUFTHANSA’S NIGHTMARE IN GERMANY - PART THREE THE ‘DIRTY TRICKS’ CONTINUE!!!" This headline will cost FR up to 500.000€ . Let's wait till o'l
42 Hoffa : I still don't understand why you guys wouldn't want low-fare competiton to succeed in Germany. LH has a near-complete dominance of the domestic and re
43 Sabena332 : Yes, I agree with Hoffa. I can not understand too that some people do not want a Lufthansa competitor here in Germany. In my opinion it is great that
44 Tango-Bravo : Grasping at straws by LH, who know that Ryanair has a game plan against which they cannot effectively compete. Could it be that LH is fuming over Ryan
45 Racko : i have no problem with low fare airlines, but i do have a problem with ryanair because of the methods they use. There are other low fare airlines, Ger
46 Sabena332 : Ok, that is right. In my opinion must Ryanair told the people in their advertisements that it is not Frankfurt but Hahn. Patrick
47 1stspotter : Hi, I predict the next court case will be between Air France and Ryanair. Ryanair is using this airport for severall flights from the UK an Ireland. B
48 Post contains images David_itl : Most of us on this site know where you'll end up when flying with Ryanair. You've got to imagine what it's like for anyone who is not connected to or
49 Wingman : Honestly, there is no cozier relationship between a government and its "national" airline than Germany and LH. It's practically a comedy. Compare the
50 Charliecossie : Wingman: What are the two biggest cities in Germany and what are the fares? What are the two biggest cities in the UK?
51 Racko : yes, we all know that european airlines buy only airbus because their governments tell them. Please, PLEASE come up with something new. And maybe you
52 Post contains images Tom_eddf : Passengers don't care about what the IATA designator of their destination is and whether IATA handles as a "frankfurt" airport. They even care about w
53 Post contains images Airsicknessbag : The point is not whether HHN may call themselves "Frankfurt-Hahn" or not; the point is not whether FR is allowed to advertise HHN as "Frankfurt (Hahn)
54 Wingman : The point is the same I always try to make about Germany, being that it has a very unbalaced combination of being Europe's largest economy/population
55 B737-700 : Hoffa once again, I have nothing against competition as I have already stated BUT I do have something about FR trying to fool their customers by misl
56 Post contains links Flying-Tiger : What most people always forget when speaking about domestic flights in Germany is that this is only a very little percentage of the traffic flowing be
57 Post contains images Airsicknessbag : Why should anything be "very definitely going on behind the scenes to protect LH from competition"? LH is a private company, their main competitor on
58 Lowfareair : airsicknessbag: FRA is connected by high-speed rail, while HHN is by Bus(ryanair.com says 1:45 to get there, not 2:40). It would make sense that publi
59 Post contains images Airsicknessbag : Lowfareair, I don´t know about the 1:45 bus FR cites; my above figures reflect the fastest connection time as provided by PUBLIC transportation, i.e.
60 Airblue : Let's Ryanair flying from Hahn and than we will see if it will be a sucessfull hub. I don't bet my 2 cents. They will stop many flights from there ver
61 Post contains images SQ325 : I don't have a problem with LowCost carriers I myself use Germania. But I have a problem with Ryanair! The way how they treat employees and how they l
62 Andreas : Wow, a lot has happened since yesterday, so I'd like to add a few points again: 1. Comparing prices: As some of you already said: FR needs to compare
63 Nfx : sad to see "we germans" are far behind the rest of the world as we're not yet ready for no-frills-airlines. in German it's called "Armutszeugnis". SQ,
64 Greenjet : I wouldn't write Ryanair's chances at Hahn off yet. Ryanair have proven to people in the past that they can make successes when you wouldn't expect it
65 Sabena332 : >>>Sabena: Still LH bashing and adding no argument whatsoever? Well, wie armselig! I did not bash Lufthansa. I only told that it is good for the fares
66 Andreas : Sabena: Oh you didn't??? Well I'm sorry, I must have missed your arguments somehow, maybe it's my totally LH-adjusted anti-LH filter browser. I certai
67 Airblue : Why don't Ryanair follow the Easyjet example and they enter in a big european hub so they can really compare fares and offer a good alternative to maj
68 Andreas : off-topic. On the other hand, it might not be the intention of FR to compete directly to LH. I guess it's not that stupid to do what they do: They sea
69 Hoffa : I love competition, but I hate ruinous competition, and that is what will happen in Germany before long (it happened in the past), and I love to see t
70 Lj : One thing I don't understand. Why did LH sue Ryanair? Thanks to LH everybody in Germany has probably heard of Ryanair and like my marketing professor
71 Lj : Andreas you know as well as I that the cost structure at LH is far higher than those of the low cost airlines. Should easyJet enter the FRA-LON market
72 Andreas : Translation: I love LH, but I hate anything which threatens LH bottom line and anybody that stands in the way of it. And Ryanair, with a higher market
73 Andreas : bad publicity being better than no p., it makes me think of Benetton. As for the business trip to LON: Right, they have all the right in the world to
74 Post contains images Airsicknessbag : Hoffa, >>>Translation: I love LH, but I hate anything which threatens LH bottom line and anybody that stands in the way of it. And Ryanair, with a hig
75 Lj : "In the end, I'll stick to my basic argument: Take the overall (!!) price, look at what you get for it and choose the airline that does it cheapest. "
76 B737-700 : Why should LH start an A321 service from HHN to Stansted. Maybe they do a FRA-STN but I seriously doubt a HHN-STN !
77 Post contains images A340-313X : Why doesn't LH let them fly that route and put a CL600 or the bus on the HHN/FRA route...
78 Albatros : I think, this strike was very important for LH, because the name Frankfurt-Hahn produces many irritation. People think, they fly to FRA - in reality f
79 Lj : Albatros, you probably haven't travelled on one of the low costs airlines but I can assure you that business travellers DO travel on low cost airlines
80 Post contains images Vfw614 : Why Lufthansa is suing Ryanair ? Think about it that way - if you violate competition law, the result - as in this case - is that an injunction is iss
81 SQ325 : Yesterday itried just for fun to book some flights on Ryanair! I searched for a 10euro ticket! The cheapest fare i found was 29,90euro one way! How do
82 Nfx : incredible how some people here underestimate FR and O'Leary... let's wait a year or so and then we'll talk again...
83 Greenjet : SQ325 you have to read the terms and conditions to get the really cheap fares. If you can't the cheap fares then obviously they've been sold. Simple a
84 Post contains links Flying-Tiger : Mr O´Leary underestimates the german market and the german court system. I doubt that his hub in HHN will be a big success, the offered routes aren´
85 Andreas : Again some points I'd like to add to the overall confusion: 1. Laurens: In the end the price will always be the dealmaker or dealbreaker. That goes fo
86 Andreas : ...yet, DCX will bring that one at the end of 2002, as far as I know. Besides, there's only space for one passenger, but HE'LL TRAVEL IN STYLE, BY GOD
87 Andreas : ...has the last and best laugh right know when it comes to lovely pics. O'Leary and about 100,000 photographers are probably right now in HHN setting
88 Vfw614 : Nothing is as constant as change. Tomorrow Lufthansa will have a laugh when the High Court in Cologne will decide whether or not Ryanair will have to
89 Billy : Whilst not wanting to take sides in a very heated debate here, I seem to recall that Hahn was called Frankfurt Hahn once it was privatised (and long b
90 Post contains links Flying-Tiger : Hey Vfw614, what do you think will LH make out of THIS: 1,000 Free Flights for Supporters of Lower Fares and Competition in Germany Support our Fight
91 Post contains images Hoffa : Man, are they trying to put pressure on a german court?? Gee, THAT can hurt! So are you gonna show up for a free ticket, Flying Tiger? Seems like a pr
92 Racko : is this o'leary a circus clown or what ? Actually, you have to get a cleareance for a demonstration and i doubt that o'leary has one ... the next law
93 Post contains images Greenjet : O'Leary may be a clown but he's a hell of a successful clown
94 Post contains images Prebennorholm : This is very, very cleverly done by Ryanair. They get all the publicity and advertisement they can dream of for free! (Of course equally stupidly done
95 Post contains images David_itl : Hoffa, isn't Ryanair's Oslo really Sandefjord-Torp? So fly from nowhere near Frankfurt to nowhere near Oslo and enjoy the bus ride either end David/M
96 Prebennorholm : David_itl:...fly from nowhere near Frankfurt to nowhere near Oslo... David_itl, you are so right. There is just one complication, Oslo really has no a
97 Post contains images Capt.Picard : Don't you just love a good scrap! I'm a committed Ryanair flyer, so good luck to them! Thanks to Ryanair, my friends and I have never flown so often-F
98 Prebennorholm : Dear Capt.Picard, I have never flown with Ryanair, but friends and family have used them a lot and they tell exactly the same thing as you do. And BTW
99 Hoffa : Preben, Some excellent points, as usual. Nobody is holding a gun to the head of Ryanair pax who (despite the many hoops they may have to jump through
100 Andreas : Dear all, it's quite funny to watch how the distance and the transfer times between FRA and HHN changes as the thread grows. If we go on, HHn will pro
101 Airblue : That's a really good idea. But they haven't to make the BA or KL mistakes with their low-cost division. The new carrier to be sucessfull should be rea
102 Vfw614 : Why doesn't Ryanair tell the wanna-be demonstrators that they could simply buy the ticket Ryanair will give away for free for 10 € as they do it in
103 Hoffa : Hoffa: To your internet on aircraft-thread yesterday: A few weeks ago I heard or read that the LH 744 you mentioned is currently being fitted with the
104 B737-700 : Ahh too bad I don't live in Köln. WOuld be cool to get a free ticket at the first thought. BUT if you have to pay your taxes again that'll probably
105 Albatros : Lj, probably SOME of the business-people change to the low-cost airlines, but Ryan Air or for example Germania in Germany will never be able to give t
106 LJ : Albatros , you mean corporate rebates/discounts and kickbacks, step-up commissions and CRS manipulating? Yes, only LH can offer those (BTW I don't say
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