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Did A Plane Really Crash In Antarctica  
User currently offlineFlymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7279 posts, RR: 6
Posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5705 times:

Someone told me a plane crashed in Antarctica is that true. More INFo Please.


"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineB737-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5641 times:

when ?

User currently offlineDocpepz From Singapore, joined May 2001, 1971 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5631 times:

An Air New Zealand DC-10 crashed there in the late seventies. Could the New Zealanders please furnish us with the details?

User currently offlineRw774477 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1077 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5629 times:

NZ DC-10 ZK-NZP 11/29/79

RW774477


User currently offlineWoodsboy From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1031 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5578 times:

The ANZ DC-10-30, flight 901 crased into Mt Erubus in November of 1979 while on a "flight seeing" excursion. The cause was later determined to have been incorrect coordinates supplied by ANZ dispatchers which effectively flew the airplane right into the side of the mountain, all 257 onboard perished. The blizzard conditions at the time of the accident made it impossible for the flight crew to visually determine the aircraft's position relative to the terrain. Its location high on the slopes of the active volcano posed a very difficult recovery effort in the month afterwords.

User currently offlineAirzim From Zimbabwe, joined Jun 2001, 1239 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5534 times:

In a way it was New Zealand's World Trade Center tragedy.

With so many gone and with NZ being a relatively small nation (population) it really had profound effects on the nation.

It was also never done again.

Although Qantas still do it.


User currently offlineB744 From New Zealand, joined Dec 1999, 491 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5505 times:

Check out:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/656184

There were also some photos under another recent post, something about the worst crash photo.





User currently offlineVirginFlyer From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 4577 posts, RR: 40
Reply 7, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5382 times:

Airzim - the difference was we didn't bomb Mount Erebus afterwards...

If you are looking for more information on the subject, may I suggest Impact Erebus by Gordon Vette, a former Air New Zealand pilot. It is rather thorough (though some may argue slightly one sided) in its detailing of the events leading up to the accident, and the resulting investigations. The version I read (though I have seen a version without this) also contained a series of photographs, including some taken from on board (several photographic films and at least one video film survived the crash). One happened to be taken at the very moment of impact - it is rather chilling, with ice and jetfuel being thrown up against the window.

Anyway, I hope this is of use

V/F



"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
User currently offlineLMML 14/32 From Malta, joined Jan 2001, 2565 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5350 times:

http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/ksearch.cgi?terms=erebus&sort=Matches&display=10&b=1&t=1&d=1

Check this site and click on the links.


User currently offlineLMML 14/32 From Malta, joined Jan 2001, 2565 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5340 times:

VirginFlyer said:
and at least one video film survived the crash). One happened to be taken at the very moment of impact - it is rather chilling, with ice and jetfuel being thrown up against the window.

Is this video available on line somewhere? I am very interested in this crash. It is my "favourite" - for want of a better word. This is because this crash was never supposed to happen and the cause of it is the most rediculous human error in aviation history. It just goes to show how fragile aviation really is.



User currently offlineNZ767 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 1620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5328 times:

Good site LMML.
Only thing, they've listed the crash as 28 November 1978.
Was actually 28 November 1979; a Thursday if I remember rightly.
Same year as the AA Chicago one.


User currently offlineLMML 14/32 From Malta, joined Jan 2001, 2565 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5302 times:

You are correct. The crash happened in 1979. A misprint on the site probably.

User currently offlineLMML 14/32 From Malta, joined Jan 2001, 2565 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5297 times:

VirginFlyer - re-Gordon Vette's book, Impact Erebus, you described it as "one-sided". From what I've read about the accident (Air Disaster Vol II) the pilot had no fault in this accident. It was Air Newzealand that tried to put the blame on the pilot. So if the book is one-sided (I assume it is in favour of the pilot) there is a good reason for that. I am presently looking for the book.

User currently offlineNZ767 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 1620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5289 times:

Here she is......  Crying


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © AirNikon




User currently offlineVirginFlyer From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 4577 posts, RR: 40
Reply 14, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5222 times:

LMML - The fact is there is still controversy as to where the blame lies. The popular acceptance is that the airline was at fault. However, this was finding, from a Royal Comission of Inquiry, was thrown out by the Privvy council due to procedural errors - the Commissioner had overstepped his jurisdiction in his findings. Personally, I believe this version, however Air New Zealand (and some of its staf, I am amazed TG992 hasn't popped in with this, I am sure he has before) will still contend that the crash would never have happened if Captain Collins hadn't descended to low altitude, common practice, but against regulations.

As with any plane crash, I think it is rather silly to say there was only one cause. This one had many - Poor engineering practices, confusing weather, a trick of geography that made a bay in front of the mountain appear the same as McMurdo sound, the pilots low alititude flight, and the lack of any form of forward looking GPWS, which undoubtedly would have prevented the accident. It is too much to take the Air New Zealand line, and say that solely the pilots were to blame, but at the same time, you can't go as far as to say they are completely blameless.

Where the book comes in a tad one sided is that it skips over the role of pilot error, and makes only a very minor issue out of the against-the-regulations-descent. I happen to be of similar opinion to the author, so it never has really bothered me, but if I am going to be objective, I have to say that the book does lean in favour of the pilots.

Anyway, I am rambling. Read the book, honestly, it is very very good.

V/F



"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5218 times:

*pop*

As I said in a previous thread, it was a tragic situation all round.

The pilots had descended below company minimums - granted, it was apparently common practice, but 'just because everyone's doing it doesn't make it right!'
If they hadn't, the crash never would have happened, but of COURSE if the flight plan hadn't been changed without their knowledge it would never have happened too.

A thread last year on pprnue was very interesting - the airline pilots that contributed were divided right down the middle as to whether the cause should be put down to pilot error or blamed on flight dispatch. That division is likely to endure forever.



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User currently offlineRw774477 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1077 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5191 times:

Just thinking ... how much is the pax in 24F going to see ? If the 'show' is displayed on the screen above, how good could that be ? 757-300 would be better !

rw774477


User currently offlineVirginFlyer From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 4577 posts, RR: 40
Reply 17, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5140 times:

Rw77447 - Unfortunately, Air New Zealand didnt have access to 757-300s in 1979...

Besides which a twin jet can't be flown over any part of Antarctica with the exception of the Antarctic Peninsula to the south of South America under 180 minutes ETOPS. Even with 240 minutes ETOPS, you would only get more of the Antarctic Peninsula, and a small strip of land south of Australia. Even if we forget ETOPS, a 757-300 would be unable to do it because, even originating in Christchurch, it would have to turn back before it reached Antarctica, or it would run out of fuel...

Anyway, with respect to the seating, when the aircraft was over the ice, people would be standing up near windows to take photographs, not sitting in their seats. I am unsure whethere this happened on the NZ flights, but on today's Antarctic flights, using a QF 744, there is a seat rotation system, where people swap seats part way through the flight so you will always be seated near a window for at least some part of the flight.

TG992 is probably correct in saying no consensus will ever be reached as to on who the blame should be placed.

LMML - sorry missed your question about the video before. I have never seen it online, only on TV here in New Zealand. But if you search for Erebus Crash Video or something like that on a search engine, maybe you'll find it. Oh, and the jet fuel and snow on the window is a still photo (that was in Impact Erebus), not a video. I am unsure if any video film showing the moment of the crash was ever recovered - I have certainly never heard anything of it. I doubt you'd really want to see it either, it would be too horrible seeing all those people at pretty much the moment they are killed - I found the images happy passengers taken in the hours before the crash hard enough to watch...

V/F



"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5114 times:

Footage of the moment of impact indeed exists and I have been privileged (if that's the word) to view it (I'm not sure if it's ever been released publically).

There's pretty much just a sudden jolt followed half a second later by a fireball, blurred images of snow and ice and debris, and the camera then goes dead. It's absolutely chilling.



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