Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Guess What! Another Lawsuit! This Time The AA A300  
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (12 years 8 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2246 times:

NEW YORK (Reuters) - The widow of a man killed on an American Airlines flight that crashed moments after takeoff in November filed suit on Thursday against the airline and against aircraft maker Airbus SAS, alleging that mechanical and structural problems caused the disaster.
The suit, filed in Manhattan federal court seeks more than $225 million in damages and costs. It also names as defendants Airbus Industrie; Airbus Service Co.; European Aeronautic Defense and Space Co EADS N.V. and BAE Systems Plc.

American Airlines, the world's largest carrier, is owned by AMR Corp. Airbus SAS is owned by European consortium EADS and Britain's BAE.

The Airbus A300-600 aircraft, which was headed for Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic, crashed after leaving John F. Kennedy International Airport on Nov. 12. Data recovered from the flight showed it hit turbulence from a plane in front of it, and seconds later began to swing violently and break up before it fell 2,900 feet to the ground, killing all 260 people on board and five on the ground.

Investigators have not yet determined the cause of the crash but they are focusing on potential mechanical problems, a possible structural defect with the plane's tail fin, and actions by crew after the aircraft encountered turbulence.

The case was filed by Margarita Del Carmen Montan, the widow of Jose Angel Rosa, who said her husband was forced to endure severe mental anguish and fear of impending death before he was killed in the crash.

The suit alleged that structural, electrical and mechanical systems failures caused or contributed to the crash.


Why I object to this:
1. We don't know what caused the crash!! Yes, if the NTSB find that AA or Airbus were at fault then maybe this lawsuit could be valid, but as it is, at the moment your guess is as good as mine! (There are talks about the pilots using excessive rudder and the fin snapping off, but also of a defective vertical stabiliser, bird strike, wake vortex etc)

2. $225 million!!!!!! This is only for ONE of the passengers!! Should all 260 passengers sue and win, say buh bye to AA even before the ineviatible and numerous September 11th lawsuits.

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHoffa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (12 years 8 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2140 times:

If Airbus/EADS are smart, they will turn on AA and cite defective pilot training like Boeing did with the US427 crash in 1994. It ain't pretty, but this strategy seems to create doubt in the mind of a jury and thus lessens the financial blow.

User currently offlineMagicMan_841 From Canada, joined Jan 2002, 182 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (12 years 8 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2121 times:

Hi,

I can hardly believe that with all the financial problems airlines have those passengers still try to get every penny they can get out of them. Give them a break, we don't want a giant like AA to go bankrupt.

Math


User currently offlineLj From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4428 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (12 years 8 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2111 times:

"The case was filed by Margarita Del Carmen Montan, the widow of Jose Angel Rosa, who said her husband was forced to endure severe mental anguish and fear of impending death before he was killed in the crash."

Can someone explain to me how she knows this? I don't want to be rude but I can understand you sue AMR or Airbus but sueing for emotinal distress of the deceased?? I can understand you sue them for lost income, personal distress but this I don't get it?

Regards
Laurens


User currently offline777kicksass From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2000, 668 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (12 years 8 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2089 times:

Did this woman have a particularly special husband? Better than the other 260 people who perished? This is one thing which makes me mad. How can she be so selfish. She just thinks oh well the husband is gone lets use him to get me 265 million. Disgusting.

User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 5, posted (12 years 8 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2082 times:

Well I'm quite sure there are real hot-shot lawyers in the USA who specialize in knowing what the victims of such events felt before they dies. I'm also quite sure, that poor woman doesn't know what she's doing, maybe she doesn't even speak enough English to understand what sort of paper she signed in the office of the Lawyer.
As many of you US guys tell us stupid Europeans on how our laws work, I take that chance to strike back a little bit: This case, as many others before, is a real flaw in the US law system, as it encourages greedy lawyers to find cases where there are (often enough) none. Furthermore the way the amount of the recompensation is found, is totally ridiculous: It is discussed between the members of the jury, until all are satisfied. Now so much for differences in law flaws!
Regards
Andreas



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3826 posts, RR: 33
Reply 6, posted (12 years 8 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2082 times:

I can hardly believe that with all the financial problems airlines have those passengers still try to get every penny they can get out of them. Give them a break, we don't want a giant like AA to go bankrupt.

First of all, its not the passengers who are trying to get every penny out AA (they're all dead). It's their families. I'm sure the families of those killed on Flight 587 couldn't care less whether or not AA goes bankrupt.

Secondly, the fact that some American Airlines pilots are saying that the A300 is unsafe to fly and calling for the planes to be grounded isn't helping AA's case any.

Pilots: Some of American Airlines' aircraft unsafe to fly
01/17/2002

http://www1.msnbc.com/local/kxas/NBCSBOCOKWC.asp

LoneStarMike

User currently offlineHoffa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (12 years 8 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2072 times:

Can someone explain to me how she knows this? I don't want to be rude but I can understand you sue AMR or Airbus but sueing for emotinal distress of the deceased?? I can understand you sue them for lost income, personal distress but this I don't get it?

There is a longstanding legal precedent for awarding damages for things like mental anguish, concious pain and suffering, pre-impact fright, punitive damages, future lost earnings, burial costs, lost services, etc.

It will not be difficult to show what the plantiff was going through in those final moments when the CVR data and eyewitness accounts are pieced together.


User currently offlineHoffa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (12 years 8 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2065 times:

Well I'm quite sure there are real hot-shot lawyers in the USA who specialize in knowing what the victims of such events felt before they dies. I'm also quite sure, that poor woman doesn't know what she's doing, maybe she doesn't even speak enough English to understand what sort of paper she signed in the office of the Lawyer.

That was a very strange statement on your part. Are you basing your assumption that she doesn't speak English because of her Latin surname?

I predict an out of court settlement with a figure significantly less than $265 million.

And if that were your mother or father on that plane, would you honestly give a damn whether or not AA went bankrupt anyway?


User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 9, posted (12 years 8 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2055 times:

...we have all enough imagination to get an impression what happens before a crash.
But that is not the point. The point is: How can one person sue for a certain amount in order to compensate for the loss of her husband and emotional distress? How much is her husband worth? Ot the distress? Maybe we could use the salary to support her and the family that now ceases to come in: Well, that doesn't amount to 265 mn. USD, even if you use all sorts of present value discounting, ok, using a discount factor of 9,000 bps might help.
If she succeeds, and some companies go bankrupt and lot of people loose their jobs: Are they entitled to some compensation for their emotional and financial distress, that comes from being jobless? Will they sue that poor woman from NY? Come on, this gets ridiculous!!
Overall, these lawsuits look more like a crazy bet of a lawyer against the company/state whatever in order to get rich.
Regards
Andreas



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineLZ-TLT From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (12 years 8 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2049 times:

Lawsuit? $225 million?

OMG, this must be the latest joke out there.

As for "pre-impact fear" - there are a lot of incidents, where lawsuits against the airline for this reason were ruled out by courts as irrelevant and not proven, Alaska 261 being the most well-known.

And, my personal point - the compensation amounts seeked by some lawyers (and in several cases being paid) are completely OUT OF PROPORTION. To mention the Concorde crash - even the lawyers and the relatives of the ones died in the crash stated in interviews that they INTENTIONALLY filed such overblown lawsuits. As one relative stated in an interview for a german TV channel some months ago: "yes, we were seeking too much, but this MUST HURT the airline"

Sorry, but this is not fair justice anymore. This is taking the law into their own hands. I think in some countries this is called Lynch justice and is prohibitied and subject to legal actions.


User currently offlineHoffa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (12 years 8 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2036 times:

Why does everybody assume that because this woman is suing for $225 Million, she will automatically get everything she is asking for and that AA will go bankrupt as a result?

Keep in mind that most of the people on this plane were American citizens of Dominican origin---meaning that they were mostly poor people who worked hard all year to afford their one ticket home. Do you really think they will be able to afford to hire experienced attorneys who will pursue appeals for years against AA who has some of the most experienced attorneys in the business and the money to keep this tied up in court for years?

AA will offer the familes around $1M each if they choose not to sue. And I'd bet 95% of them will take it.


User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 12, posted (12 years 8 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2036 times:

That was a very strange statement on your part. Are you basing your assumption that she doesn't speak English because of her Latin surname?

No, I'm basing my guess (not a statement as I don't know that lady) on the fact, that there are many foreign people living in NY that don't speak English very well (I've had several encounters of that sort while on business there). But you are right, this could be interpreted as a cheap shot, though it wasn't meant that way, so forget it; it wasn't my point anyway!

I predict an out of court settlement with a figure significantly less than $265 million.

Let's wait and see! I predict there'll be nothing at all if they don't come up with facts that prove that AA or AI did something totally wrong! Or maybe that is just wishful thinking on my side.

And if that were your mother or father on that plane, would you honestly give a damn whether or not AA went bankrupt anyway?

No I probably wouldn't, but that is a strange statement of yours:
Do you actually believe the personal grieve of someone in that situation should be the basis for a law, that will be for all people???
In other words, if someone kills my parents, I could walk around and kill a few other people that might be responsible for the killing of my parents, i.e. the policeman that didn't help them because he came too late, or the doctors who just couldn't rescue them anymore????
Come on, we both know that is BULLS.IT!!
Regards
Andreas

btw: How do you set copied text, you are referring to, in italics?



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3826 posts, RR: 33
Reply 13, posted (12 years 8 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2032 times:

It's important to note that Flight 587 was an international flight, so the terms of the Warsaw convention will apply, which limits the airline's liability. Here's an article from the Ft. Worth Star-Telegram.

Lawsuit options more conventional in crash
11/15/2001

http://legalpr.com/kentstart.html

Note the part that says:

Because Flight 587 was international, passengers' claims will be filed through the Warsaw Convention, an international treaty.

Rules that had limited international passengers to $75,000 in damages have been lifted, Dallas aviation lawyer Kent Krause said. But the treaty still limits survivors to actual damages, such as lost wages. Other kinds of damages - for loss of loved ones, mental anguish or negligence - are prohibited, Krause said.

LoneStarMike

User currently offlineMilemaster From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1065 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (12 years 8 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2021 times:

Just because her husband didn't possess a life insurance policy that was sufficient enough to accomodate the void she now has, she sues AA.

Historically, most crashes don't pay out to the families anyway. If they do, it's for a far less amount than what the original amount was for.

Any responsible adult with a family or others that depend on them are obiligated (in my opinion) to insure themselves in the case of accidental death.

This includes plane crashes.

There are so many variables in commercial airline travel that it's impossible to say accidents will never happen. That's what this individual is saying when she filed the suit against AA. Perhaps her husband should've been more prepared?



User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (12 years 8 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2015 times:

I don't think Airbus will be found guilty because there have not been any other incidents similar to AA Flt 587 from other airlines operating the A300. This could be a fault of AA for not carefully inspecting the aircraft after the incident in 1994 where the aircraft hit severe turbulence which could have weakened the tail section.

User currently offlineKonstantinos From Greece, joined Jun 2001, 389 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (12 years 8 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2005 times:

Now that's a woman you don't wana get married to.
I wonder if she cared about the guy.
Money, money, money,
all this money,
in a rich (wo)mans world !


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13206 posts, RR: 77
Reply 17, posted (12 years 8 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1995 times:

Recently, Aviation Daily ran a piece on the investigation.
So far, investigations into the large worldwide fleet of A300-600/A310 aircraft have not found any problems, but nothing is being ruled out yet.
NASA at Langley do state that months more work is required.
'While investigators caution that the probe is in it's early stages, the fleet-wide inspection results seem to weaken the hypothesis that composite parts, and tails on the oldest Airbus widebodies in particular, have inherent hour and cycle related problems that could weaken a primary structure enough to rip pieces off in flight'.
United did ultrasonic inspections on three A320s, in one case a slight imperfection was checked against the planes records. Airbus found the problem had occured in production and United, as is commonly done, accepted the plane knowing that the slight imperfection existed. United's inspections shpwed that in 6 years the scope of the damaged area had not changed.
Is that true the some AA pilots want the AA A300's grounded? Sounds very unprofessional, especially as many other airlines have been flying this "dangerous" aircraft without problems, in many cases for longer than AA.


User currently offlineLj From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4428 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (12 years 8 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1982 times:

Lonstarmike, the fact that it's an international flights doesn't help AA's case. I don't know the exact details but I know that some airlines (voluntary) have agreed that in certain cases the limits set in the Warsaw convention don't apply.

I'm sure the lawyer gets a large share of the damages (I've once been told that some lawyers get up to 25% of the claim).

Regards
Laurens


User currently offlineLowfareair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (12 years 8 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1949 times:

Andreas: stick in < i > at the beginning of what you want to say in italics, and < /i > at the end of it. Just take out the spaces in the brackets there as I have to have them so you can see them.

You can do the same thing with bold by using a b instead of the i, and underline with the u.


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (12 years 8 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1915 times:

Although the terms of the Warsaw II convention apply, the US is also a signatory to the IATA appended agreement that lifts strict liability to $ 100,000 per passenger. Of course, Warsaw II also has a clause (Article 25, I believe) that would allow a decedent to sue for any amount if negligence on the part of the carrier/aircraft manufacturer were to be found. AA's flight training practices for the A300-600R and/or Airbus' design of the aircraft will be under scrutiny.

$ 225 million is just a starting figure. All of these lawsuits start out with a preposterous number like that. It is standard legal strategy. If negligence were to be found, then a jury could award any sum, but I predict that this case will be settled out of court for around $ 1 - 10 million per passenger, where the varying amounts will be based on a range of factors - age, earning potential, etc etc.


User currently offlineFly_emirates From United Arab Emirates, joined Oct 2000, 1046 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (12 years 8 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1903 times:

way to go
sue this and so that?


User currently offlineVirginA340 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (12 years 8 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1894 times:

I really don't think any of the next of kin give a dman about AA. The gathering that the airline held at the Javits Center Center for counseling and filing paperwork for compenstion was a total mess. Half of the families didn't know what to do!

Why should I give a damn about AA when they have Tens of Billions in the reserves and they got a huge part of that 20 billion dollar bail out. I hardly think $265 million will do harm to an airline that has that much $$$. The industry will come back sooner than you think and beofre you know it they'll make tons of $$$ again as long as they don't screw up and companies like Argenbrite aren't doing security at the airports. Yesterday my hobby store owner dropped of his wife for an Air Canada flight EWR-Montreal and the stupid woman doing security (for Argenbrite) didn't speak a word of english. The one guy I had 8 months ago was sleeping on the job while his partner in crime was chatting away not doing his job!



"FUIMUS"
User currently offlineMagyar From Hungary, joined Feb 2000, 599 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (12 years 8 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1887 times:

I heard that there are law firms specialized for such lawsuits.
Can someone actually sue such law firms? One can say they
caused sufficient emotional and mental distress by their
rude, gready approach in the times of tragedies, and
also they caused financial loss, because the air ticket may
be more expensive due to hedging by the airlines against
law suits.

Janos


User currently offlineMilemaster From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1065 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (12 years 8 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1862 times:

VirginA340 -

It's amazing that Argenbrite is still around considering all the half-assed service they've been providing. Next time you go through security and you see one of the guards asleep, get his/her name and report it to any/all media sources you can get your hands on. Right now all the media is salivating at the thought of another story to expose those idiots.

I won't even get into the non-english speaking part.

That sickens me.


25 Post contains links Klaus : CALpilot has brought up another, more technical article in another thread: "What Is Said About AA Airbus" It is a bit disconcerting, but the article r
26 VirginA340 : Milemaster. You should hear the stories the Port Authory and US Customs has on these morons. The National Guard at EWR, JFK and LGA can't beleive thei
27 L-188 : I love how these people file lawsuits against the airlines and the airframe manufactures before the cause of the crash has been determined by the auth
28 Greg : Cause of accidents can take years. What is known is: 1. A tail fell off an aircraft. That is not a normal event. 2. It was owned and maintained by Ame
29 Jaysit : For those of you who who are unaware of the law, here is a very brief roadmap: Plaintiffs file charges against the defendants based on probable theori
30 Go Canada! : i would change that lawsuit.... MONDAY JANUARY 28 2002 Aircraft parts swindle linked to New York plane crash FROM JOHN PHILLIPS IN ROME ITALIAN police
31 Baec777 : If she wants to sue the airline, who fault is it that caused the accident of AA587....?? baec777
32 Firedancer : Don't worry about AA and UA going belly up cause of lawsuits. That is why they have liability insurance. The federal bail out more than covered their
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
What Prompted The AA A300 Order? posted Mon Dec 15 2003 00:53:39 by N1120A
Should I Be Nervous About The AA A300-600? posted Fri Mar 1 2002 00:36:15 by Delta777-XXX
TRY To Guess What Airline/aircraft This Is posted Thu Jun 22 2000 01:57:23 by Timobear
Another Crash, This Time In Kathmandu posted Mon Sep 6 1999 15:32:21 by Cedarjet
Is This Another Sign Of The AA Pull-out Of STL posted Tue Jul 15 2003 17:27:19 by Twalives
The Second Time This Happened On AA posted Mon Nov 12 2001 22:36:57 by CcrlR
What's This In The EA A380? posted Tue Oct 31 2006 09:33:56 by AirbusA346
What Is This By The Window Of This TU-154? posted Thu Sep 21 2006 06:35:10 by Csavel
What Is This On The Engine? posted Fri Apr 21 2006 22:00:56 by Gkyip
What Is This In The Cockpit? posted Sun Apr 2 2006 15:48:19 by Alberchico